April 21, 2026

Healing Grief with Science, Mindfulness, and Self-Compassion | Sylvia Wolfer

Healing Grief with Science, Mindfulness, and Self-Compassion | Sylvia Wolfer
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Sylvia Wolfer shares her deeply personal journey through lifelong grief and how neuroscience, mindfulness, and self-compassion can help us live fully again. From the physiology of grief to meditation, journaling, and emotional intelligence, this conversation offers practical tools to work through grief—not get over it—and rediscover hope, resilience, and meaning. www.sylviawolfer.com

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This program is designed to provide general information with regards

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to the subject matters covered. This information is given with

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the understanding that neither the hosts, guests, sponsors, or station

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are engaged in rendering any specific and personal medical, financial, legal, counseling,

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professional service, or any advice. You should seek the services

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of competent professionals before applying or trying any suggested ideas.

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At the end of the day, it's not about what

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you have or even what you've accomplished. It's about what

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you've done with those accomplishments. It's about who you've lifted up,

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who you've made better. It's about what you've given back.

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Denzel Washington, Welcome to inspire Vision. Our sole purpose is

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to elevate the lives of others and to inspire you

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to do the same.

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Sylvia welcome.

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Thank you for having me.

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Hey, I'm grateful. I I'm kind of smiling. This is

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a rare time that I get to actually do an

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interview in the afternoon because I'm here in Thailand, but

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you're into Cambodia exactly. Yeah, what took you to Cambodia.

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Well, I'm kind of a digital nomad, you know, I'm French,

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but I've lived in many We lived and worked in

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many different countries. And I spent eight years in England,

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and I left England a couple of years ago, and

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then I spent two years in Sri Lanka and now

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I'm just in Cambodia to explore in other countries. I'm

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just really lucky to be able to work online and

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to travel as I work and live my life.

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Well, how long are you going to stay in Cambodia

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do you think?

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Well? For now, I'll spend six weeks and then go

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back to Sri Lanka. But if I do like it,

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I might come back for longer.

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Okay, good, Well, we're not that far away with me,

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so that's great. Hey, what I'd love for you to

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do is kind of share with the audience your story.

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Go back as far as you need to go. But

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I find it always fascinating to hear about the journey

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of what brought you to this point of doing what

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you're doing.

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Yes, thank you Doug for asking. I find that in general,

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whenever you ask someone I'd like to say, anyone about

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their story, it's always mind blowing. Everyone has a story,

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and no one is boring really, so taking time to

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listen to people's stories is always very nourishing, I find,

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so thank you for asking. So my life was shaped

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by grief. I lost my dad when I was seven.

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Ten years later, my younger brother died in a terrible

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road accident, and only recently before Lockdown, my older brother

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died same suddenly in an accident, and two years ago

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my mom passed as well. So basically, from a family

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of six, there's only my brother and myself left. And

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it's like grief has been a thread throughout my life.

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But most of the time, up until a few years ago,

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I was hiding it because I didn't want people to

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feel uncomfortable. But it also felt like I wasn't revealing

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my full identity because it's such a big part of

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me that I always felt like introducing myself saying, hey,

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I'm Sillyah, the girl who lost her family, because this

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is just to who I am. And so I did

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different types of work, and over the past ten years

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I did a lot of coaching, already life coaching, personal training,

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pil artists, meditations as well, and a few years ago

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I started therapy to work on my grief, and my

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therapist said to me one day. Listen, it's good that

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you work on your trauma, and it's good that you

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were here to process these things. But you're really a

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beautiful example of resilience because you're genuinely happy. You love life,

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you love people, and even though it's not my place

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to say this, I think you're not allowed to keep

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that to yourself. So at first I was a bit shocked,

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and I said, what do you mean. I said, well,

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I think you have a clear mission here. You need

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to share your experience, you need to help people go

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through their grief. And I was very reluctant. I was like, no, no, no,

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I don't think I want to do that. I tried

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to shy a way to run away from grief because

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it's so painful, so hard. I don't want to have

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any more grief in my life than what I already

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have to carry. I walked home that day, and by

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the time I got home, it was evident. I thought,

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she's right, she's right. I'm not allowed to keep that

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to myself. And that's how I started sharing my grief experience,

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my journey, the things that helped me. And you know,

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even though grief is very universal, everyone is going to

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go through grief at some point, no one will be spared.

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It's also very personal. We all live it on a

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very individual level. But somehow I found that quite a

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few people did resonate with my story and it gave

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a lot of meaning and to my grief and to

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my work, and it ended up being very therapeutic as

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well to dive into the literature to share stories with

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other people. So that's where I am today, helping people

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through grief. That's my story and Electuly Wow.

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So you have a website and what people reach out

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to you and then you work with them via zoomia zoomer,

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yes exactly.

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So what I'm trying to do in my work is

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really to offer something for everyone no my it doesn't

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matter whether they have financial means or not. So I

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have a platform also on Spotify, Apple Podcasts where I

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do guided free guided meditations. I write a lot of articles,

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I have my own blog, and then I offer online

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courses digital courses self pace that are really fairly priced

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and then for those who are ready to investigate more

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in themselves, I also offer one to ones exactly yes

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on our website wonderful Well.

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And you know everybody experiences grief in different ways. And

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it isn't always that we've lost a loved one, but

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many times that's probably some of the deepest grief. But

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are there other examples besides losing loved ones that you

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have found people are experiencing quote grief that has nothing

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to do with that.

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Yes, yes, yes, Sometimes a divorce, you know, brings up

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the same type of feelings losing a job being made

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redundant and bring up the same type of feelings moving,

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moving country, moving homes. So yes, grief is a very

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universal experience, and I think it's something that is unfortunately

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still taboo and we don't talk about it enough on

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how to actually manage things because there are ways to

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handle it, not to get over it, because it will

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always be there, but there are skills we can learn

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and we can develop to handle grief better. And if

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we can handle grief, grief with a big j which

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is you know, losing a loved one, then we are

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more able to handle the smaller griefs that life brings

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along as well.

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Well. And you know, it's interesting you said that you

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went and obviously saw therapy and did some courses and

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so forth. Meditation. We'll talk more about that. But and

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then she's telling you that you're resilient even though you

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experienced all of this. Did you find that in the

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course of Obviously, I'm sure that therapy helped, but did

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you find that you were approaching it in a way

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that was allowing you to experience life happiness still or

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were you hiding it?

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Yeah, thank you for asking. That's a really good question.

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So the first time I was faced with the loss

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was when I was a child. I was seven and

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my dad died suddenly of a heart attack. We woke

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up one morning he was gone, and my mom decided

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to move countries, so we were also separate from our family.

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It was quite a traumatic experience and so from that

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age very quickly And that sounds a bit morbid, but

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it actually really taught me to enjoy life and to

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love people. Whenever I would come across someone, I would

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always have that thought in the back of my head,

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thinking what if they died tomorrow, you know, what would

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I think about them? How would I feel about them,

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How would I see them, how would I look at them?

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And so it really taught me to look at people

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from a very different angle, seeing them as something very precious.

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And seeing the good in people right away. And it

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also remember thinking to myself, now I have my mother

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and my three brothers and then my everything, and so

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I just really had that immense love for them, which

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now in hinds I'm really grateful for because it's my

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biggest consolation. I've lost two of my brothers and my mum,

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but the relationship we had was so deep, so genuine,

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and so full of love that this brings me comfort

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on the hardest days.

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Well, and as you work with people, I'm sure a

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lot of people didn't have that experience and yet they

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still lose someone. Do you find that your approach is

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similar to what you were being helped with by the

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therapist or who you found a unique approach based on

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your own personal experiences that you find actually helps maybe

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even more at least a very special group of people.

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Yes, I think it's trying to pinpoint that you know

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there is something that will be helpful for anyone out there,

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and it won't be the same thing for everyone. So

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my therapist had a way of doing which is different

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from what I do. But like I started therapy well

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into my forties, I wish I had started earlier, but

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the things that have helped me personally were really to

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understand the data, to dive into the science, the neuroscience

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the physiology of grief, and to really like data numbers,

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figures give me a sense of agency and control when

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everything seems to crumble. And understanding that there's so much

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shared experience in grief when it comes to the science

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of it. You know, when people grieve, the brain is

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damaged like it would be by a real accident, you know,

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like a concussion. So there are changes in our physiology

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that come with grief. And understanding that just gave me

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a lot of validation. I felt less alone, you know,

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and it also helped me understand that there was nothing

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wrong with me. Because we don't talk so much about grief.

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People who grieve often think they're crazy, they're going mad.

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You know, you still feel like calling your loved one

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months even years after they've passed, and you think, what's

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wrong with me? Why do I not take it in

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that they're not here anymore? So this is what has

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helped me. A lot slow movement, meditation, and a lot

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of data in science, and that's what I try to

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offer to the people that I help.

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So what if you found are some of the physiological

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situations that occur because of grief.

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Well, for example, you know, when a loved one dies,

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the next of kin, the closest people are twice more

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likely to have a heart attack within the next few

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days of the loved one passing. The immune system is affected,

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so we have like we're much more prone to illnesses,

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to flu like symptoms, and with that comes what is

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called the sickness behavior, which is a kind of depression

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linked to feeling ill. You know, when we have the flu,

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we kind of tend to not be as joyful and

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a beat as we would normally be, and this passes

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as soon as the flu passes as well. It's called

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sickness behavior, and this is very present in grief, and

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this kind of creates that loop where you're already feeling

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low and then on top of that, you have these

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symptoms that you would have if you had the flu.

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So the body really, it really takes a toll on

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the ordy. The nervous system is on high alert, sleep

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is disrupted, digestion is disrupted, the circadian rhythm is disrupted,

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brain fog as well, the ability to focus. So these

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are all physiological impacts of grief that have nothing to

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do with willpower or you know, when people go back

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to work, they usually have to go back to work

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within weeks after a loss, and they just can't bring

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up the productivity they used to. And this is not

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because they don't want to, it's really because their bodies can't.

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They can't give the same energy and output as they

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did before.

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Well, and you mentioned meditation, I know, we'll talk about that,

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mindfulness and so forth. We also mentioned neuroscience, and I

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think that for people, you know, sometimes when we talk

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about meditation and some of those things, it's like a

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little out there for some people, they just don't understand

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it because they've never experienced it. But when we get

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into neuroscience and start to see how that takes place

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in a very effective scientific way, helps people understand some

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of the approaches that they can take. So what has

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been your understanding of the neuroscience aspect of this and

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how it can actually help us to overcome a great

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that we are of an experience.

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Yes, So what I found really almost life changing, I

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would say, is to understand that we have a map

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in our brain, a three dimensional map. We all have it.

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That is linked to our loved ones or to the

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people that we know in general. So if I ask you,

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for example, where your spouse is right now, or where

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your children are, you will be able to locate them geographically.

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And if I ask you when you will be in

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touch with them again, you will also be able to

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tell me timely, roughly when you will see them again.

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And then there is the connection, the link. You obviously

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will will be more connected to your spouse than to

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the barista down the road, even if you see the

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barista every day. So if you didn't hear from the

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barista in two weeks, you wouldn't be worried, but if

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you don't hear from your spouse in a week, you

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will be worried. So we have that three dimensional map,

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which is time, space and connection, and the brain changes,

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but it changes slowly, and when it integrates information, it's

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like tattooed in our brain, so it stays for a

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long time, and that three dimensional map is completely confused.

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When someone dies, and this is why we feel like

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someone's going to walk through the door at six pm,

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like this was the case for the past twenty years,

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or you feel like calling someone quickly and then you remember,

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they're not here anymore. And it's this mismatch between what

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your brain remembers and the reality that creates these huge

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waves of grief when it's suddenly overcomes you and you

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realize that, wow, now this is my new reality. So

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what is helpful to understand is that these two parts,

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the time and the location, these need to be readjusted.

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The brain needs to be recalibrated to understand that these

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are gone, but the connection on the other side is

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still here. And this is what we can work on

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to move forward with grief. If that makes.

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Sense, Well it does. And how do you change that

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time and expectation and so forth.

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Well, you have to give yourself time, you know, and

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be very be very gentle, and just be mindful, just

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communicate with yourself and remind yourself, you know, like this

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is a normal reaction. I'm expecting this because my brain

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takes time to recalibrate. Just to be aware of it

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is already a first big step towards recalibrating because most

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of the time people don't know that and they just

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think they're going mad. They just think they're bunkers, that

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something is wrong with them. So just the awareness is

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already very helpful, and then it's about, you know, just

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repeating it to ourselves. This is normal, it's painful, my

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brain is trying to adapt. There's nothing wrong with me.

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Well, and you know what I find interesting. I remember

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a number of talks from people talking about, you know,

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prayer and how prayer we can prayer right to eliminate

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some of that grief. But I remember a talk where

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the gentleman said, you know, so often we pray, but

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we've forgotten to meditate. And I find that I think

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growing up we learn how to pray in a certain way,

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but meditation is something that's in some respects a part

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of it. But even at a higher level, would you

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share what your experience was and is with meditation and

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how you went through that process.

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Yes, So before talking about my own experience, I'd like

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to stress that meditation is not for everyone. It is amazing,

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it is incredible, but meditation can be very triggering the

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people with past traumas, with anxiety. So sitting in silence

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is not helpful for everyone. But mindfulness is, and meditation

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is a type of mindfulness. And mindfulness is simply bringing

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your awareness to something in particular in a given moment

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without judgment. So this can be done walking outdoors. This

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can be done painting, dancing, listening to music. It doesn't

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have to be sitting in silence. For my part, I

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started meditation years ago because well, everyone was saying it's

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good for you, so I thought, well, I'm going to

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do it. If it's good, I'm going to do it.

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But for years, really I didn't struggle, but I would

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fall asleep, I would get a bit restless. It took

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time and practice, but I just kept pushing through because

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I had the feeling that it would get me somewhere.

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And then after my brother died, before Lockdown, before COVID,

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I was really it really hit me very very badly,

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and I did start to meditate much more, and suddenly

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there was a shift. And now meditation for me is

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like a treat It's where I come back to myself.

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When I meditate, I come home. All the noise stops,

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and if I need to make big decisions or if

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I need an answer, if I need to to just

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find that inner piece, I know I can get back

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to that place. And because of the years of practice,

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now it goes it's easier for me to reach that place.

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And it's extremely comforting and reassuring because I feel like

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this is a place I can go to whenever I

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need it. You know, I can do that from anywhere.

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I can do it at the airport, I can do

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it in my bed, I can do it in a

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waiting room. This is my safe space. And it gives

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a lot of agency as well, because then your inner

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piece does not depend on external factors anymore. You can

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access it by yourself. And this is really powerful, and

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it is possible. It's not something out there that is

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just for the illuminated or you know, it is accessible.

335
00:17:39.039 --> 00:17:41.920
Yeah. Well, and you said something that I want to

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clarify a little bit because as you commented about meditation

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being somewhat of a danger for those that have been

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suffering from experiences in childhood abuse and so forth, and

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yet of the hundreds of people that I've interviewed who

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talk about meditation as it can in fact be so

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helpful in overcoming those situations. So I'd love for you

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to clarify why is it that you think that meditation

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in a certain way is not helpful and how do

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people and I think it does combined with mindfulness, but

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how do people use meditation in your experience to overcome

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some of those early traumises, so that rather than meditation

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being damaging, it's helpful, like I personally believe it is,

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and it is.

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You're absolutely right. The reason why I always like to

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pinpoint that is that I've come across people who thought

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there was something wrong with them because it would make

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them feel very anxious and very stressed to try to meditate.

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It would feel very uncomfortable sitting in silence, and this

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is the reason why. So for most people it will

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be beneficial, but there is a handful of people for

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whom it will be triggering and challenging. And it's just

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for these people to know that there is nothing wrong

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with them. Like meditation is not that thing that will

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just be one hundred percent of the population. There's a

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percentage that will not benefit from it right away. But

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a good way to overcome this is to start with mindfulness,

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which is just awareness. So you can just sit somewhere

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for a minute. You could look at a candle. That's

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a Buddhist practice, you know, just look at the flame

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of a candle and breathe slowly. That's a way of

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doing it. I find guided meditations are also very helpful

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because you're not alone with yourself, you listen to someone

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guiding you to something that can be very soothing. And

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then using the five senses, if you go for a walk,

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for example, try to be mindful or aware of what's happening,

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the sounds on your left, the sounds on your right,

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What can you see in front of you, how do

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your feed feel in your shoes, things like that, you know,

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using the five senses to create that mindfulness. That doesn't

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have to be meditation, but obviously meditation can be absolutely

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extraordinary for most people.

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I agree, well it can, and I think you bring

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up the point that if someone is meditated and those

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things come up and it's affecting them in a negative way,

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it really has to do with not understanding how to

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approach meditation in a way and mindfulness wise and awareness

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as you bring up, so that you know, if I'm meditating,

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recognizing that some of that early trauma is going to

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come up when it comes up, if I'm mindful, if

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I'm aware and understanding that that's going to happen, but

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also understanding that by being able to recognize that and

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put it to the side or just accept it and

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understand that, hey, that's something that happened, maybe even developed

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some understanding of was there any value that came out

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of that? What's happening now in my life? I mean,

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as I interview so many people who were abused in

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their early childhood and having gone through that and overcoming it,

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and now here they are out there helping people such

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as you know what you're doing, but with the grief,

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but helping people to really overcome that because they experienced it.

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So it's a difference of being the victim of some

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of that versus ultimately becoming mindful enough and arewarre enough

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to recognize that, you know what, I can take these

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experiences and if I turn them around a little bit,

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I can actually be of value to other people.

401
00:21:22.119 --> 00:21:26.079
Yes, absolutely, you're absolutely right, and I think sometimes it

402
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is needed help from someone else, you know, to overcome

403
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that and to learn the ability to sit with trauma,

404
00:21:32.920 --> 00:21:36.720
to sit with discomfort. Yes, you're right well, and you.

405
00:21:36.680 --> 00:21:40.039
Know so often and you bring this up in one

406
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of your talking points that so often we have people

407
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say to us, you know what, just get over it.

408
00:21:45.720 --> 00:21:48.359
You know, I've heard enough of this, and probably many

409
00:21:48.400 --> 00:21:51.720
times people have gotten into that victim mode, and so

410
00:21:51.799 --> 00:21:55.119
that starts to irritate your family and everybody else, and

411
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then you'll get this comment get over it, which I

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think is so sad to even hear that. But how

413
00:22:00.680 --> 00:22:03.480
do you help people and how do you explain the

414
00:22:03.480 --> 00:22:07.799
difference between quote getting over it and working through it?

415
00:22:08.160 --> 00:22:11.079
Yeah, that's such an important point, and that part of

416
00:22:11.160 --> 00:22:14.240
my work, an important part of my work is what

417
00:22:14.319 --> 00:22:18.680
I call emotional investigation. So it's about it's a skill

418
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that really I think anyone could benefit from and that

419
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I highly invite everyone who knows how to do it

420
00:22:25.039 --> 00:22:28.319
to share with, especially younger generations and kids. And it's

421
00:22:28.359 --> 00:22:33.119
about allowing the emotions to arise and becoming an observer,

422
00:22:33.440 --> 00:22:36.759
so before we try to understand them, just allowing them

423
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to be there without judgment. And this is so much

424
00:22:39.480 --> 00:22:41.799
harder than we think, because we're so quick to judge

425
00:22:41.799 --> 00:22:44.640
ourselves without even noticing. You know, we will have a

426
00:22:44.680 --> 00:22:47.599
feeling or an emotion and we'll think, oh, this is ridiculous,

427
00:22:47.599 --> 00:22:49.759
Why do come on, get your act together, Like you

428
00:22:49.759 --> 00:22:51.839
shouldn't be feeling like this, you should be you know,

429
00:22:52.400 --> 00:22:54.519
we are judging ourselves for our emotions. So that's really

430
00:22:54.599 --> 00:22:58.079
the first step to learn to sit with our emotions

431
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and to see them like waves or like clouds in

432
00:23:00.559 --> 00:23:03.000
the sky, and just to allow them to be without

433
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trying to repress them, without trying to be like my

434
00:23:05.240 --> 00:23:07.759
heart perfectly fine, I don't care, I don't mind, this

435
00:23:07.839 --> 00:23:11.119
doesn't affect me, and you know. So that's the first step,

436
00:23:11.240 --> 00:23:15.319
to learn to let them be, let the emotions come,

437
00:23:15.359 --> 00:23:19.599
and that can be very, very uncomfortable, but it's a practice.

438
00:23:19.640 --> 00:23:23.319
So the more you practice sitting with your emotions, the

439
00:23:23.440 --> 00:23:26.680
more in control you feel in a good sense, not

440
00:23:27.079 --> 00:23:29.640
controlling in a negative way. The more you feel like, Okay,

441
00:23:29.640 --> 00:23:32.319
I can handle this. I can handle this emotion because

442
00:23:32.319 --> 00:23:34.559
I've had it in the past. It scared me, but

443
00:23:34.599 --> 00:23:37.200
then I let it come and it faded again. So

444
00:23:37.440 --> 00:23:41.000
this is a really important point emotional investigation and learning

445
00:23:41.039 --> 00:23:45.480
to name emotions, to explain them. So I quite like

446
00:23:45.559 --> 00:23:48.960
to write it down or ask my clients to write

447
00:23:48.960 --> 00:23:51.200
it down as if they were trying to describe how

448
00:23:51.200 --> 00:23:53.400
they feel to a ten year old, you know, like

449
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to make it as clear as possible how they feel,

450
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where they feel it in their body, if it has

451
00:23:57.680 --> 00:24:00.240
a color or a shape, if it felt like this

452
00:24:00.319 --> 00:24:03.640
in the past, how long it lasted, you know, things

453
00:24:03.720 --> 00:24:07.920
like that. So this is an emotional investigation. Being comfortable

454
00:24:07.960 --> 00:24:11.880
with our emotions is a massive step towards healing and

455
00:24:11.880 --> 00:24:12.680
moving forwards.

456
00:24:13.079 --> 00:24:16.680
And that's not easy, you know, as you say, you know,

457
00:24:16.759 --> 00:24:19.480
we talk about it as though it's really easy to do.

458
00:24:19.559 --> 00:24:22.759
But as you're working with clients, how do you help

459
00:24:22.799 --> 00:24:28.359
them to deal with those emotions, and particularly deal with

460
00:24:28.400 --> 00:24:33.759
them away from the standpoint of victimhood and from a

461
00:24:33.799 --> 00:24:38.559
standpoint of awareness and not feeling guilty, not allowing it

462
00:24:38.599 --> 00:24:41.519
to affect us so greatly? How do you help people

463
00:24:41.720 --> 00:24:44.559
or clients to get to that point where they are

464
00:24:44.640 --> 00:24:48.119
aware and yet it's not affecting them in that deeply

465
00:24:48.200 --> 00:24:48.920
negative way.

466
00:24:50.160 --> 00:24:53.079
Well, it is a process. And the first step, it

467
00:24:53.160 --> 00:24:56.759
sounds simple, but it's not, is to name the emotions

468
00:24:57.000 --> 00:25:00.960
without any you know, judgment, any thought about it, any

469
00:25:01.039 --> 00:25:04.359
action towards the emotion. But you just name the emotion.

470
00:25:04.559 --> 00:25:08.160
So the better your vocabulary of our emotions, the better

471
00:25:08.200 --> 00:25:10.680
your emotional intelligence as well. So I will give them

472
00:25:10.680 --> 00:25:13.119
a long list of words and invite them to explore

473
00:25:13.160 --> 00:25:17.599
these words and then to name their emotions several times

474
00:25:17.680 --> 00:25:20.359
throughout the day. This is the first step, and this

475
00:25:20.440 --> 00:25:23.799
will build awareness because very often we're just in that

476
00:25:24.240 --> 00:25:27.160
annual vision and we just go through life. We do do, do, do,

477
00:25:27.680 --> 00:25:29.960
but we don't take time to acknowledge what's going on

478
00:25:30.039 --> 00:25:35.200
in our emotional world. So understanding, like developing a vocabulary

479
00:25:35.240 --> 00:25:38.079
around emotions and naming them, that's the first step. That's

480
00:25:38.079 --> 00:25:40.680
something that people can do for a couple of weeks,

481
00:25:40.960 --> 00:25:43.880
and then you can dive a little bit deeper by

482
00:25:43.920 --> 00:25:46.920
trying to explain how it feels, where you feel it

483
00:25:46.960 --> 00:25:48.880
in your body, if it has a shape, of color,

484
00:25:48.920 --> 00:25:51.799
of sound in your mind, and then you can go

485
00:25:51.880 --> 00:25:54.759
back in the past and ask yourself how I felt

486
00:25:54.799 --> 00:25:58.200
like this before, how did it start, what trigger did,

487
00:25:58.319 --> 00:26:00.960
how did it end, how did I feel better afterwards?

488
00:26:01.200 --> 00:26:04.960
To just really get familiar with emotions, to just sit

489
00:26:05.039 --> 00:26:08.160
with them, because they're not as scary as they seem.

490
00:26:08.200 --> 00:26:11.359
Aren't an important point as well, they're not us. They're

491
00:26:11.400 --> 00:26:14.359
not our personality. So it's not because we have certain

492
00:26:14.359 --> 00:26:18.359
emotions that we should label our personality according to these emotions.

493
00:26:18.559 --> 00:26:21.599
Emotions are clouds in the sky. We are the weather.

494
00:26:22.079 --> 00:26:24.440
You know, we are the sky. Emotions are the weather.

495
00:26:24.519 --> 00:26:26.799
We are the sky. So we don't change, but the

496
00:26:26.880 --> 00:26:28.519
emotions pass well.

497
00:26:28.559 --> 00:26:31.039
And how often do you find that as you go

498
00:26:31.200 --> 00:26:36.359
back and work with someone reframing those emotions. And I

499
00:26:36.359 --> 00:26:38.119
think you hit on such a good point before I

500
00:26:38.160 --> 00:26:41.519
get into this other one, the fact that emotions are

501
00:26:41.559 --> 00:26:44.440
not us. And I think that's so important to understand

502
00:26:44.480 --> 00:26:48.599
that we we have perceptions, and like anyone else, we

503
00:26:48.640 --> 00:26:51.559
can stand in the corner with someone else see an

504
00:26:51.599 --> 00:26:55.559
accident and their perception of what happened can be entirely

505
00:26:55.680 --> 00:27:00.480
different than our perception. And so emotions are based on

506
00:27:00.599 --> 00:27:05.920
perceptions of what occurred and oftentimes no question about it. When,

507
00:27:06.319 --> 00:27:10.119
particularly if we're victims of abuse of some sort, you

508
00:27:10.160 --> 00:27:14.039
know that becomes an issue. But so often when we

509
00:27:14.119 --> 00:27:17.079
do that, we become the victim. We think there's something

510
00:27:17.119 --> 00:27:21.279
wrong with us, rather than recognizing as we go back

511
00:27:21.480 --> 00:27:27.319
and perhaps reframing those that, Okay, if this happened, let's

512
00:27:27.359 --> 00:27:29.519
look at what really happened. I remember a client that

513
00:27:29.559 --> 00:27:32.240
I worked with, and as we went back on a

514
00:27:32.240 --> 00:27:36.400
certain issue into his early childhood, we discovered his experience

515
00:27:36.440 --> 00:27:40.480
in school that was just so unfortunate from a teacher.

516
00:27:40.960 --> 00:27:45.160
But as we reframed that from being his challenge to

517
00:27:45.200 --> 00:27:48.079
the fact that this teacher was just quite frankly, an idiot,

518
00:27:48.960 --> 00:27:52.079
and once he understood that, it changed the whole dimension

519
00:27:52.519 --> 00:27:55.400
of that. So do you find that how do you

520
00:27:55.519 --> 00:27:59.200
help people to reframe those emotions and help them to

521
00:27:59.279 --> 00:28:04.079
understand that, you know, even the serious, deep, deep ones,

522
00:28:04.440 --> 00:28:08.720
if we can reframe that different out look, it can

523
00:28:08.759 --> 00:28:09.759
make such a difference.

524
00:28:10.279 --> 00:28:13.920
It does. You're right, perception is everything, and I heard

525
00:28:13.960 --> 00:28:16.799
a neuroscientist say the other day that at the end

526
00:28:16.839 --> 00:28:20.599
of the day, everything is inside, you know, our perception

527
00:28:20.720 --> 00:28:23.480
of the world, our emotions, the way we see things,

528
00:28:23.519 --> 00:28:26.759
the way we judge things. It all comes from inside,

529
00:28:26.839 --> 00:28:30.720
which also means that we have the power to influence that,

530
00:28:30.880 --> 00:28:35.039
to change that, and with the with the people I

531
00:28:35.160 --> 00:28:39.839
work with. Obviously, grief is it is quite a big deal.

532
00:28:40.039 --> 00:28:43.759
So we approach it like a big wound. You know,

533
00:28:44.039 --> 00:28:46.720
first you need to take care of the wound, and

534
00:28:46.759 --> 00:28:49.319
then at some point it will heal and it will

535
00:28:49.359 --> 00:28:51.799
leave a scar, and that scar will still be tender.

536
00:28:51.920 --> 00:28:53.920
Some things will. You know, if you poke a scar

537
00:28:54.039 --> 00:28:56.279
it can be more painful and if you poke the

538
00:28:56.319 --> 00:28:59.160
skin that is next to it. So it's really a

539
00:28:59.200 --> 00:29:03.279
slow process where we're also trying not to put pressure

540
00:29:03.720 --> 00:29:07.240
because a lot of people talk about, you know, everything

541
00:29:07.240 --> 00:29:09.559
that happens for a reason, and these are the last

542
00:29:09.559 --> 00:29:11.759
things you want to say to someone who is grieving.

543
00:29:12.079 --> 00:29:15.319
There is no there is no reason for someone dying,

544
00:29:15.359 --> 00:29:17.759
there's no lesson to be learned, there's no you know

545
00:29:17.839 --> 00:29:21.119
what I mean. But there can be meaning coming out

546
00:29:21.160 --> 00:29:23.519
of it. But this is down to us if we

547
00:29:23.640 --> 00:29:26.440
find meaning. But it's not an obligation. But that's the

548
00:29:26.519 --> 00:29:29.799
process to learn to live with it and not to

549
00:29:31.359 --> 00:29:34.519
you know, try to leave the grief behind. There's a

550
00:29:34.519 --> 00:29:38.440
beautiful quote by Christopher Walken who says that losing someone

551
00:29:38.480 --> 00:29:41.960
is inevitable and it will leave a big hole, you know,

552
00:29:42.079 --> 00:29:44.799
in our hearts, and that's the good news and the

553
00:29:44.799 --> 00:29:46.880
bad news because it also means they will also be

554
00:29:46.920 --> 00:29:49.759
part of us. And he says, it's like badly breaking

555
00:29:49.759 --> 00:29:52.640
an ankle, and you will always have that limb, but

556
00:29:52.680 --> 00:29:55.359
you'll still be dancing. At some point you'll be dancing again,

557
00:29:55.400 --> 00:29:57.240
and you will dance with a limp, but that limb

558
00:29:57.279 --> 00:30:00.440
will give you your performance, the depth and the character.

559
00:30:00.920 --> 00:30:05.960
So's it's just trusting that process that it can you

560
00:30:05.960 --> 00:30:08.720
know that life can can still be happy and that

561
00:30:08.839 --> 00:30:12.319
we can carry joy and sadness, we can carry love

562
00:30:12.440 --> 00:30:14.920
and lost. They work hand in hand. And also to

563
00:30:15.079 --> 00:30:17.759
kind of normalize the conversation about it, because it's just

564
00:30:17.880 --> 00:30:20.759
something that will happen to everybody. And I think if

565
00:30:20.759 --> 00:30:23.079
we open up the conversation about grief a little more,

566
00:30:23.480 --> 00:30:26.720
people will be a little less shocked when it happens,

567
00:30:26.759 --> 00:30:29.960
because it's almost as if, you know, death doesn't happen.

568
00:30:30.000 --> 00:30:31.359
We don't want to see it, we don't want to

569
00:30:31.400 --> 00:30:33.240
hear it, we don't want to talk about it. We're

570
00:30:33.319 --> 00:30:36.640
very uncomfortable when someone is grieving. The person grieving is

571
00:30:36.720 --> 00:30:39.839
uncomfortable around those you know who don't quite know what

572
00:30:39.960 --> 00:30:43.279
to say. So normalizing the conversation is already a really

573
00:30:43.440 --> 00:30:45.440
really big step towards that well.

574
00:30:45.480 --> 00:30:48.519
And I like what you said about that list of

575
00:30:49.240 --> 00:30:53.039
emotions and identifying them. But you also talk about journaling.

576
00:30:53.400 --> 00:30:55.279
You didn't mention it, but I would assume that you

577
00:30:55.359 --> 00:30:59.599
probably have them write those emotions down and so forth.

578
00:31:00.079 --> 00:31:03.240
What have you found are some of the steps You've

579
00:31:03.240 --> 00:31:06.720
got journaling, You've got meditation. Are there other things that

580
00:31:06.839 --> 00:31:11.000
people can use as a tool to help them really

581
00:31:11.720 --> 00:31:17.880
ultimately and again not necessarily overcome, but be able to

582
00:31:17.960 --> 00:31:19.319
become comfortable with.

583
00:31:19.720 --> 00:31:19.960
Yeah.

584
00:31:20.000 --> 00:31:23.039
Well, there are a few things, and they can come

585
00:31:23.079 --> 00:31:27.079
across as surprising, But the first one really is to

586
00:31:27.240 --> 00:31:29.599
tend to the body. You know, when the mind and

587
00:31:29.680 --> 00:31:33.119
the heart are too heavy, we always have our body

588
00:31:33.160 --> 00:31:35.960
to come home to. And it's simple things. These are

589
00:31:36.000 --> 00:31:38.519
things I applied to myself. They sound boring, but if

590
00:31:38.599 --> 00:31:41.279
you tick the boxes day in, day out, it will

591
00:31:41.359 --> 00:31:46.119
slowly make a difference. Morning, daylight, Proper nutrition and hydration.

592
00:31:46.319 --> 00:31:49.920
G we've completely disrupts the digestive system and the hunger

593
00:31:49.960 --> 00:31:53.640
and satiret tiques. So eating small meals of whole foods

594
00:31:54.079 --> 00:31:56.759
is quite often people just you know, snack something quickly.

595
00:31:57.319 --> 00:32:02.799
So proper hydration, proper food, morning, daylight, mindfulness in whatever

596
00:32:03.119 --> 00:32:07.039
you know, whatever that means for the people sleep, So

597
00:32:07.079 --> 00:32:11.440
sleep is also disrupted. But trying to have a bedtime routine,

598
00:32:11.720 --> 00:32:14.680
you know something the brain loves a routine. The routine

599
00:32:14.720 --> 00:32:18.279
is very soothing. And then really being picky with the

600
00:32:18.319 --> 00:32:21.720
people you surround yourself with, because sometimes, specially in grief,

601
00:32:21.799 --> 00:32:25.359
somehow the people that are closest to you end up,

602
00:32:25.559 --> 00:32:28.000
you know, sometimes hurting you without meaning it. And then

603
00:32:28.039 --> 00:32:30.279
other people that you thought were meaningless in your life

604
00:32:30.359 --> 00:32:33.480
end up being just amazing and comforting. So really picking

605
00:32:33.519 --> 00:32:35.599
a few people, two or three people that bring you

606
00:32:35.720 --> 00:32:39.400
comfort and surrounding yourself with those, so tending to the body,

607
00:32:40.000 --> 00:32:43.240
being selective with the people you surround yourself with. And

608
00:32:43.279 --> 00:32:47.519
then one last thing that I find very helpful is

609
00:32:47.599 --> 00:32:52.200
to schedule grief. So that sounds a bit surprising, but

610
00:32:52.319 --> 00:32:55.799
you know, grief hits you during the day in waves.

611
00:32:56.240 --> 00:32:59.240
Triggers can be everywhere, and it can be scary. I

612
00:32:59.359 --> 00:33:01.880
found that for myself that there's so many things I

613
00:33:01.880 --> 00:33:04.960
stopped doing because I was too scared of grief triggers.

614
00:33:05.119 --> 00:33:07.880
I lost my dad at seven and my brother at seventeen,

615
00:33:08.279 --> 00:33:10.839
so I have no support whatsoever, and it's a very

616
00:33:10.920 --> 00:33:14.640
young age to handle such strong emotions. So I stopped

617
00:33:14.640 --> 00:33:17.720
going to the movies, I stopped reading novels. I didn't

618
00:33:17.720 --> 00:33:20.559
want to go to cafes or restaurants anymore because there

619
00:33:20.559 --> 00:33:23.119
could be a song, there could be something triggering my grief,

620
00:33:23.480 --> 00:33:27.839
and this has isolated me a lot, and later on,

621
00:33:27.920 --> 00:33:30.480
when my older brother died, it has also made me

622
00:33:30.599 --> 00:33:34.480
very angry because I felt like these grief triggers had

623
00:33:34.599 --> 00:33:38.359
kept me from fully enjoying or being more mindful during

624
00:33:38.359 --> 00:33:40.680
the time I still had with him. So I say

625
00:33:40.680 --> 00:33:43.200
that alert It sounds shocking, but you know what grief

626
00:33:43.240 --> 00:33:45.960
taught me is that people die, and people die and

627
00:33:46.039 --> 00:33:49.559
people die. So if we don't work, if we don't

628
00:33:49.599 --> 00:33:52.079
attend to the wound that is grief, we're going to

629
00:33:52.160 --> 00:33:55.200
miss out on life that is happening right here around us.

630
00:33:55.640 --> 00:33:59.440
So to have a little bit more control over these

631
00:33:59.480 --> 00:34:03.920
grief tricks is I started to schedule grief to really plan.

632
00:34:03.960 --> 00:34:06.359
I could date night, really okay, tonight, I'm going to

633
00:34:06.400 --> 00:34:08.800
listen to some music, I'm going to watch to look

634
00:34:08.840 --> 00:34:11.679
at pictures, I'm going to cry my eyes out. I'm

635
00:34:11.719 --> 00:34:14.079
going to write everything, like pour my heart out on

636
00:34:14.119 --> 00:34:18.119
a piece of paper. And this was a frame that

637
00:34:18.280 --> 00:34:21.039
felt a bit more manageable because when the grief triggers

638
00:34:21.039 --> 00:34:23.519
would hit me during the day, I could tell myself, no,

639
00:34:23.599 --> 00:34:26.599
not now, not now, now is not the right moment. Tonight,

640
00:34:26.679 --> 00:34:28.880
we'll get to that. So not pushing it away, not

641
00:34:28.960 --> 00:34:33.840
avoiding it, but scheduling time again, having that routine that

642
00:34:34.320 --> 00:34:36.480
is also very soothing for the nervous system.

643
00:34:36.679 --> 00:34:39.719
And how do you help someone to not be so

644
00:34:39.920 --> 00:34:44.960
impatient about overcoming grief or having people around you that

645
00:34:45.039 --> 00:34:48.679
are impatient about your overcoming grief. How do you help

646
00:34:48.719 --> 00:34:52.639
them to understand that it takes time and be okay

647
00:34:52.679 --> 00:34:55.880
with that and recognize it. For some people, know it

648
00:34:55.920 --> 00:34:58.760
can happen fairly quickly, but for other people it may

649
00:34:58.840 --> 00:35:02.400
take quite a while. How do you help people understand

650
00:35:02.440 --> 00:35:05.719
that and to take control of that in their own lives.

651
00:35:06.239 --> 00:35:08.599
Yeah, So one of the ways of reaching that point

652
00:35:08.719 --> 00:35:11.639
is really the emotional investigation. You know, the more you

653
00:35:11.679 --> 00:35:14.320
are aware of your emotions, the more compassion you're built

654
00:35:14.360 --> 00:35:17.159
as well towards yourself, and the more compassionate you are

655
00:35:17.199 --> 00:35:20.960
towards yourself, the more time you will give yourself to

656
00:35:21.239 --> 00:35:24.360
go through that healing process, the less tendency you will

657
00:35:24.360 --> 00:35:28.280
have to want to rush through it. So that emotional intelligence,

658
00:35:28.320 --> 00:35:32.119
that development of the vocabulary about emotions and the acknowledgment

659
00:35:32.159 --> 00:35:36.599
of the emotions helps a lot towards that self compassion

660
00:35:36.599 --> 00:35:39.199
that is so important in grief, so important.

661
00:35:39.639 --> 00:35:42.719
Well, and you know you shared your story which was amazing.

662
00:35:43.239 --> 00:35:46.920
Any other stories you can share of clients who really

663
00:35:47.000 --> 00:35:49.440
experience this level of grief that you were able to

664
00:35:49.519 --> 00:35:53.320
help and ultimately how did they finally overcome it and

665
00:35:53.480 --> 00:35:56.239
maybe even how long did it take them? Any stories

666
00:35:56.239 --> 00:35:57.440
you can share, yeah.

667
00:35:57.360 --> 00:35:59.760
Well I have many, many stories, and there are also

668
00:36:00.000 --> 00:36:03.000
precious to me. I always feel very so honored that

669
00:36:03.039 --> 00:36:06.320
people share their stories with me, because they're really I mean,

670
00:36:06.320 --> 00:36:07.840
you know, when you think you've heard it all and

671
00:36:07.880 --> 00:36:10.360
there comes another one and you're like, wow, oh my god,

672
00:36:10.599 --> 00:36:12.519
what people go through. You know, like we were saying

673
00:36:12.519 --> 00:36:15.199
at the beginning, when you ask people about their story,

674
00:36:15.519 --> 00:36:17.960
what you get to hear is just incredible, Like the

675
00:36:18.599 --> 00:36:21.519
amount of suffering and love you know, there is in

676
00:36:21.559 --> 00:36:24.320
each and every one of us. So yeah, an example

677
00:36:24.360 --> 00:36:27.760
for example, For example, recently, I had a client in

678
00:36:27.800 --> 00:36:31.920
her late thirties who's died past within a few months

679
00:36:31.920 --> 00:36:35.280
of a terminal illness. And she was a single child

680
00:36:35.360 --> 00:36:37.679
and her dad was her world. And she's married with

681
00:36:37.719 --> 00:36:43.039
two children, and she struggled because she was so sad

682
00:36:43.159 --> 00:36:46.559
that she had the feeling she couldn't enjoy the blessings

683
00:36:46.559 --> 00:36:49.639
she had in her life, a wonderful husband, two healthy children,

684
00:36:50.079 --> 00:36:52.880
and she was constantly scared that they might die too,

685
00:36:53.440 --> 00:36:57.519
and she was very hopeless, very sad, very harsh on

686
00:36:57.559 --> 00:36:59.920
herself for having these feelings. She felt that she was

687
00:37:00.280 --> 00:37:02.800
being a bad mom and a bad wife for not

688
00:37:02.920 --> 00:37:06.679
being able to cherish these moments with her family more.

689
00:37:06.960 --> 00:37:10.719
And so we did work through that firm about three months,

690
00:37:10.719 --> 00:37:13.719
and we worked a lot on self compassion, you know,

691
00:37:13.840 --> 00:37:16.840
like all the other stuff we work on in grief,

692
00:37:16.840 --> 00:37:19.719
but a lot on self compassion and that understanding that

693
00:37:19.719 --> 00:37:22.199
the way she feels is normal, there's nothing wrong with her,

694
00:37:23.199 --> 00:37:25.519
And just to work on the relationship with her dad

695
00:37:25.639 --> 00:37:29.960
with journaling, writing him letters, and at the end of

696
00:37:30.000 --> 00:37:33.760
our sessions together, she said, I feel hopeful again. I

697
00:37:33.840 --> 00:37:36.719
never thought I would feel hope again. And that was

698
00:37:36.800 --> 00:37:37.519
that was beautiful.

699
00:37:38.280 --> 00:37:39.239
Wow. Wow.

700
00:37:39.480 --> 00:37:40.880
Yes, So it's not that she you know, it's not

701
00:37:40.960 --> 00:37:43.840
that she wasn't sad anymore, that she wasn't grieving anymore,

702
00:37:43.960 --> 00:37:45.880
but hope came back in her life.

703
00:37:46.199 --> 00:37:49.960
So, if you had one special message that you wanted

704
00:37:50.000 --> 00:37:53.239
to share with the folks that are listening today, what

705
00:37:53.320 --> 00:37:53.880
would that be.

706
00:37:55.039 --> 00:37:59.840
Well, grief feels very isolating, but it is a universal experience.

707
00:38:00.559 --> 00:38:04.599
So I would recommend anyone grieving to open up and talk,

708
00:38:04.760 --> 00:38:09.000
talk to friends, talk to a therapist, talk to a group,

709
00:38:09.199 --> 00:38:12.800
but to really share their experience of grief and trust

710
00:38:12.880 --> 00:38:16.199
that in time the wound will heal in its own

711
00:38:16.199 --> 00:38:19.079
way and meaning will come out of it. But to

712
00:38:19.199 --> 00:38:23.719
really not step back and socially isolate yourself. Go out

713
00:38:23.719 --> 00:38:26.440
there and share your grief because most people will have

714
00:38:26.519 --> 00:38:29.440
experienced it too and will be very understanding and welcoming.

715
00:38:29.920 --> 00:38:34.440
Oh wonderful. So, Sylvia, how do people find you your website?

716
00:38:34.599 --> 00:38:37.840
Number one? And as you say, there are videos and

717
00:38:37.920 --> 00:38:41.239
all these things that you're offering at a very reasonable

718
00:38:41.280 --> 00:38:44.400
price from what you say. And then also how can

719
00:38:44.440 --> 00:38:46.719
they get you to help them on a one to

720
00:38:46.800 --> 00:38:48.480
one basis? So how do they find you?

721
00:38:48.840 --> 00:38:51.039
Yeah, well it's very simple. On my website, which is

722
00:38:51.079 --> 00:38:54.400
my name, Sylvia Wolfer dot com, you'll find all the

723
00:38:54.480 --> 00:38:57.679
necessary information to get in touch and to have access

724
00:38:57.719 --> 00:39:00.760
to the free resources and the privates essions as well.

725
00:39:01.199 --> 00:39:04.159
Wonderful. Any other thoughts you want to share with your audience.

726
00:39:04.639 --> 00:39:08.320
Well, I'm really grateful doctor being on this show today

727
00:39:08.360 --> 00:39:12.119
with you, because I think talking about grief should be normalized,

728
00:39:12.199 --> 00:39:14.760
like I said earlier, and I want to show that

729
00:39:15.079 --> 00:39:18.559
life can still be happy and joyful and meaningful even

730
00:39:18.679 --> 00:39:20.360
with a lot with a lot of grief.

731
00:39:20.719 --> 00:39:22.599
Wonderful, Sylvia, thank you, so.

732
00:39:22.639 --> 00:39:25.559
Much, Thank you so much, thank you so much.

733
00:39:25.480 --> 00:39:28.760
Conversation and you've had such great ideas and folks, I

734
00:39:28.800 --> 00:39:31.280
hope this is making a difference for some of you

735
00:39:31.320 --> 00:39:33.679
that are listening to this, so I hope you'll join

736
00:39:33.760 --> 00:39:37.119
us again soon. This is doctor Doug saying I'm a stay.

737
00:39:37.639 --> 00:39:38.000
Thank you,