Oct. 28, 2024

Worried Sick

Worried Sick

Stress. We all experience in our lives. But some experience it as a chronic experience, affecting their health and their life experiences.
Welcome to Karol Ward. Karol has spent years working with people on their body-mind intelligence to help them...

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Stress. We all experience in our lives. But some experience it as a chronic experience, affecting their health and their life experiences.
Welcome to Karol Ward. Karol has spent years working with people on their body-mind intelligence to help them develop authentic communication with themselves as well as others. She has also talked about the 3 key areas stress shows up in our lives and how we can overcome the stress to live a more full and joyous life.
www.karolward.com

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This program is designed to provide general information with regards

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to the subject matters covered. This information is given with

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the understanding that neither the hosts, guests, sponsors, or station

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are engaged in rendering any specific and personal medical, financial,

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legal counseling, professional service, or any advice.

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You should seek the services.

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Of competent professionals before applying or trying any suggested ideas.

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At the end of the day, it's not about what

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you have or even what you've accomplished. It's about what

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you've done with those accomplishments. It's about who you've lifted up,

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who you've made better. It's about what you've given back

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Thanzel Washington, Welcome to inspire vision. Our sole purpose is

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to elevate the lives of others and to inspire you

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to do the same.

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Bob Martin, Welcome to the show. How are you.

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I'm fine, Thanks, happy to have be here.

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I'm glad we were finally. People will put this together.

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Audience sometimes doesn't know how much of a challenge sometimes

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getting all this put together. Where are you located, Bob,

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I'm in North Carolina? Okay, okay, cool, So you're a

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couple of hours ahead of me. Which is great. So

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what I'd love for you to do is share with

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the audience your background. And you know, what I find

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is there's always a story, whether it's an AHA moment

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or whether it's a gradual development, but there's always a

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story that brings about an individual to the point that

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they are, such as yourself, where you're writing some incredible

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books and you're really trying to make a difference for

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some people. So if you could share your background, that

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would be great too.

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Sure. So, I kind of grew up on the boardwalk

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in New York selling hot and candy and popcorn. That's

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the business my folks were in, kind of the amusement

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park carnival business, and never expected that I would be

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or become a lawyer, but I did, I think, much

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to my father's chagrin. And then I went to work

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for the District Attorney's office Janet Reno back in the

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cocaine cowboy days. If anybody's ever seen the movie Scarface,

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those were the days that I was working in Miami,

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and we hit the mob up for a lot of

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money on a joint task force with the FEDS. And

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left the office shortly thereafter, and lo and Behold. They

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came to me and the mob and they said, you know,

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you got to be pretty good to to hit us

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up for that much money. And they started sending me clients,

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and so I have to admit that I was kind

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of taken with it, and I was my ego was stoked,

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and I started hanging out with those guys and maybe

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doing some stuff I shouldn't have been doing. And all

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of a sudden, even though I was able to maintain

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a good professionalism, things behind the scenes were starting to

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go south. And I was seeing a therapist, and one

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thing led to another, and I found out that my

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therapist was actually a disciple of and also the English

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language editor of a seventy second generation Master monk from

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the Shaolin Temple named Watching Me seventy second Generation Wow.

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And it was it was an amazing experience for me.

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I had grown up in a non theist family, my folks,

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you know, just had no connection to any religion. And

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then all of a sudden, you know, I was presented

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with this system of virtue and humility and grace and

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generosity that didn't ask me to believe in anything that

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I couldn't see, feel or touch, and it all made

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sense to me. So I studied under Masterne for eight

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years and that was transformational. I have to say that

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at the end of that time, I ran into a

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little bit of I guess you'd say, difference of opinion

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with my clients, and I thought it would be best

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to move to North Carolina from Florida. So I did.

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And when I got here, because of the study that

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I had done with Master Nee, I dedicated my life

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to public service and engaged in a practice of contemplation,

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meditation and the like, and became a meditation certified meditation teacher,

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very rigid and stringent training program, and I maintained my practice.

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I represented indigen people after that, folks that could afford

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a lawyer, did a lot of pro bono work, did

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a lot of rights representation, and retired in fifteen twenty fifteen.

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And then Elon University picked me up and I've been

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teaching there, trying to kind of transform the culture on

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campus to be more mindful and finally, I'm really excited

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about this. Finally, just last year they agreed to open

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up a few credit courses in meditation and I'll be

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teaching and I'm just excited as can be about that

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because it's an opportunity to get to these twenty something

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minds and give them a different way of looking at life.

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So I'm excited about that.

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So I'm curious when you talk about, you know, Masterne

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and the tawis, what is the origin of that. I'm

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familiar with Buddhism limit in Thailand. What's the origins of Taoism?

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Well, Daoism really evolved much more from an old Chinese

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shamanistic backing, So there is a lot of superstition and

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tradition and stories, kind of shamanistic approaches to early Taoism.

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But then twenty five hundred years ago, Laotsu, Confucius body.

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You know, they were all kind of contemporaries, and between

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the three of them they kind of developed a consistent

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Eastern philosophical bent, combining a lot of Hindu traditions. And

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I guess the best way to distinguish between them is

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that confusion. Confucius felt that it's all about our desire

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and how we perceive things. It's not about what happens

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in life. It's about how we deal with what happens

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in life. And Confucia said that, you know, our desire

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for things to be different than the way they are

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is so compelling, and our desires towards base instincts is

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so strong that we have to have a rigid set

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of guidelines to keep us straight. The buddhas said, well,

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it doesn't have to be that rigid, but we do

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need to balance out those desires by cultivating things like

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generosity and grace and loving kindness and sympathetic joy and wisdom.

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We have to work at developing and cultivating these things

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kind of just to balance the normal negativity that we

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tend to develop in life. And the loud too. In

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the Dallas they were kind of a hippie dippy, a

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school of Eastern thought, and they were kind of like,

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oh yeah, man, if something sound or don't worry about it.

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You know, it's like get into the sour and go

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with the flow. And Dallism was all about learning to

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recognize the energy and I don't mean mystical energy. I

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mean the energy that's existing in a conversation or in

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a relationship, or in what's going on around you, and

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then being able to effectively fit into it. I guess

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maybe the best example I could give is if you're

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out in the ocean, and you're trying to swim towards shore.

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The Dallast would teach, well, swim like heck. When the

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water's going with you, and when it's going against you,

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just put out enough energy to hold your position. Build

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up your energy because it's going to turn it and

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it's going to go with you again. And when it does,

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you want to be ready to swim like heck.

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Interesting. So when you started with Masternee for eight years,

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how intense was that? I mean, was that every weekend?

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Or were you there for a few weeks and then

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took a break. How did that work? Well?

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Masterne came about every month, and then we had a

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couple of Disciples teachers who were taught by Master Knee

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who were there in Miami constantly. We met every week

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and we did daily practice. And depending on whether if

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you were interested in taichi or if you were interested

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in chigung or the ii qing or some of the

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other contemplated practices, we had little subgroups to support those studies.

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And of course we met with George on a weekly basis.

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We all met on a weekly basis and created a community.

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Wow. And you know, and a lot of that was meditation.

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I'm I'm curious because you're teaching meditation now right. Yes, yes,

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So I was just watching a video, just a short

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one on TikTok earlier. It was a Buddhist monk and

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he was literally talking about why are you listening to music,

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Why are you listening to words? You should be doing

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silent meditation because the rest of it is interrupting. And

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I've heard I've heard this concept before. In fact, I've

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talked to a few people, interviewed a few people who

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really are into this silent meditation. My personal experience was

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that I initially started with a fellow that does a

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lot of a lot of guided meditation, and then ultimately

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I thought, well, get rid of some of the verbal

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stuff going on. And so I've found that I've listened

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to certain music and get into the sofigio frequencies and

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so forth, and seeing how that's working. What are your

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thoughts and why are some people particularly emphasizing just quiet

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meditation where you're focused on your breath versus some of

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these others, And what's your opinion on all of those?

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Yeah, I think that just to hear the monks say

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that much is a disservice to folks because it leads

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to the idea that when you sit that you're supposed

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to empty your mind and you're supposed to have a

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quiet interior. And that's just not the case. I don't

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know how many students, all of my students, anybody that

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I start teaching, for the first couple of weeks, it

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is trying to shape them of the idea that they're

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supposed to quiet their mind. You know, most people, you say, well,

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you're supposed to quiet your mind. So I'm going to

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sit here now I have I'm thinking about, you know,

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what that guy said last night, and what I got

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to do for dinner, and I've got that appointment, and

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then there's that deadline, and I don't think I look

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good in that shirt, and all these thoughts flood through

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your mind, and everybody immediately says, I can't do this.

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I can't do this. You know, I just can't stop thinking.

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And that's just a complete misunderstanding. It's not about stopping

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the thinking. It's about stepping out of the thinking and

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allowing it to flow and just being able to watch

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it happen. So when he says the idea of sitting silently,

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what he's talking about is the process of being able

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to sit and having an opportunity to allow your thoughts

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to flow and being able to watch them. But I

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don't I think distractions are okay because if you're distracted,

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it stimulates a whole bunch of thoughts. Why is that

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dog barking? He's bothering me. I'm not going to be

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able And you get to watch all those thoughts as well,

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and in doing that, you begin to understand better how

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you reason respond to distractions. And that's a learning process,

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and that's information that's helpful because the more you understand

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how you respond to distractions, the more you can consider

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whether or not it's helpful or not helpful the way

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that you respond to distractions. And then when you're thinking

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like that, you have some access to maybe making a decision. Well,

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maybe that's not the most helpful way. The other process

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that you get involved in a meditation is that this

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process of watching your thoughts. All of a sudden, and

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this happens maybe in the third week of the class,

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most of the students go, oh, oh, I'm not my

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thoughts as we say, I had a thought, so who

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had the thought? So there's the generator of the thoughts

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and as you step out of your thoughts and just

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simply watch your thoughts without trying to stop them or

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allowing them just to be, you start to recognize that

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you've been out of touch with the generator of your thoughts,

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and you start to get back in touch with that

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generator of your thoughts, which we call the observer. And

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from the place of being in the observer, you are

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freed up from all of the conditioning and all of

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the excuse my language, all the crap that's been laid

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up on you that identifies you to be the person

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who the world says you are, and you start wondering, well,

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who do I want to say I am? And it's

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that kind of access. You know, A lot of people

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ask me, well, you know you meditate a lot. Do

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you get angry? Yeah? I get angry. I get angry,

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and I get pissed off, and I get frustrated. But

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even as I'm angry because I've been meditating, I can

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also at the very same time, I can watch my anger.

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I can be angry and experience all of the experiences

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of life, and at the same time I can be

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watching it and thinking, well, you know, maybe I'm going

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a little bit too far here, maybe I would pull

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back a little bit, or afterwards I'm thinking, gee, you know,

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that really was the most helpful way to react, and

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it gives me the opportunity maybe the next time, or

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the next time or the next time, to maybe modify

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that behavior a little bit. So it's it's it's all

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of that, and anybody can do it as long as

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they're not wrapped up in this idea that I have

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to quiet my mind.

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So here's here's the question.

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Sorry, that was a long answer. I'm so sorry.

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So using music work, it's about using music and what's

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your thoughts. I mean, I've read different things about binaro

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beach and how effected they can be versus selfeggio frequencies

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and how effected they can be. Even guided meditations. What

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are your thoughts about those different types of meditations and

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is there one that seems to work better for your

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students than others.

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Okay, so we always start out with guided meditations, and

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my advice to my students is listen to the guidance

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until it gets in the way of the practice. In

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other words, listen to the guidance you know and follow

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the instructions until you know the instructions well enough so

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that you're not in time or you're not in step

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with the guidance, and it seems to be getting in

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the way, then let it go. As far as music

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and the like, I think we have to distinguish between

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relaxation and meditation. Now, relaxation is nothing to shake a

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stick at. I mean, relaxation is a vital part of

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our existence.

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You know.

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We have to give the brain a break from thinking

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all the time. We have to let the intuitive part,

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the left hemisphere. We have to allow it to do

258
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some work on its own before without being dominated by

259
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the languaging logical part of our brain. And you've probably

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noticed that you're trying to remember something or trying to

261
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think of an idea or put something together and you can't.

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Then you've taken a shower and in the middle of

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the shower it comes to you. That's because your brain

264
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has been working on it sublingually. And then when you relax,

265
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it allows the sympathetic nervous system to cut in and

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how it jumps up to your consciousness. We see the

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world more broadly when we relax. When we're anxious and stressed,

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our mind narrows and constricts to focus on solving the

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problem that's causing us the stress. But when we relax,

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we see the world more broadly. Our peripheral vision actually increases,

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so we literally see the world more broadly. So music

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and other mechanisms that help us get into a relaxed

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state actually are vital components of having an effective and

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efficient mind. But they're not the same as meditation.

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Meditation. Well, and that was going to be my question.

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So you get to the relaxed state, and then are

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you able to then move forward into meditation or you

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have to turn off the music in order for that

279
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meditation to actually occur.

280
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Now you can have music in the background while you meditate.

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You can you can be on a bus or in

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a crowd, you know, or waiting, you know, waiting in

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line at the grocery store. And meditation, all meditation is

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is stepping out of your thoughts and watching your thoughts.

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So as you, as you studied with Master Nee and

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obviously a lot of meditation, and now you're teaching meditation,

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what is in your mind the outcome that we should

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be seeking for. And it may not be just a

289
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defined outcome, but what is the point of meditation, and

290
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what does it do for us if we're really willing

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to get in and do it on a consistent basis.

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Resiliency you don't get as shaken by life is, I

293
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would say, is the main thing. And because you don't

294
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get shaken by life, you're not on a roller coaster,

295
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And because you're not on a roller coaster, your ups

296
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and downs tend to smooth out a bit. And because

297
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of that, you see life as much more of going

298
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with the flow than paddling upstream.

299
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Well, and you hear a lot of people talk about

300
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experiences they've had through meditation, whether it's healing that occurs

301
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within their body or out of the body experiences and

302
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so forth. I've never experienced that through my meditation. But

303
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what happens when they're experiencing that and how deep have

304
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they gotten into meditation to be able to experience that,

305
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or what is that exactly?

306
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Yeah, So there are different kinds of meditation, like contra

307
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meditation and transcendental meditation, which specifically focus on alter huring

308
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your state of consciousness. I wish I could answer your question,

309
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but I've never I've never gone into that practice. The

310
00:21:08.880 --> 00:21:12.680
practice that I've been in has just been simply mindful meditation,

311
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insightful meditation.

312
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Okay, so really becoming mindful, becoming aware of those thoughts,

313
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recognizing that you're not your thoughts, but they're there, and

314
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then being able to let those go and not have

315
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them affect you as deeply. Is that a fair assessment

316
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of the type of meditation You're Yeah.

317
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And you learn to be less judgmental, And there are

318
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meditations specifically to cultivate loving kindness, sympathetic joy, wisdom, empathy, compassion.

319
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There are specific meditations to do that. And one of

320
00:21:54.079 --> 00:21:59.200
the things that's interesting that now brain science is affirming

321
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it's like the monks of a thousand years ago knew it.

322
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But here's the interesting piece. A lot of us want

323
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to say, I need to be less negative. Can't do it,

324
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You cannot do it. Brain science says that the electrical

325
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activity that's in your right prefrontal cortex is your fight

326
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flight response, your negativity, your survival instincts, all of that.

327
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It's nearly impossible to reduce the electrical activity over there.

328
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But if it's imbalanced, if there's so much more on

329
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the right side than the left side.

330
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You're going to go.

331
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You're going to be very negative and cynical and unhappy

332
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if you can. So you can't reduce it over here,

333
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but what you can do is you can build up

334
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the energy over here. So whether it's meditation, or whether

335
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it's jogging, or whether it's doing crossword puzzles, or whether

336
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it's taking a walk with your dog, whatever it is

337
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that builds up your sense of connectedness and belonging and

338
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optimism and hope and goodness. We have to intentionally cultivate

339
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those things so that are both sides of our brain

340
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aer balanced. And when that happens, you take care of

341
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the interior world and the exterior world starts to take

342
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care of itself.

343
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So you've written a couple of books, Children of Abraham

344
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and I Am the Way, Yes, what motivated you to

345
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write those? And I'd love to have us talk maybe

346
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a little bit about each of those and what was

347
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the message behind each of those books.

348
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So after nine to eleven occurred, and before then and

349
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since then, you know, we see a lot of people

350
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going and even today we have a lot of Christian

351
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nationalisms and Muslim Islamic nationalism and like. And I have

352
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no idea what the nature, makeup or personage of God is,

353
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whether God is self conscious or thinking. I have no idea.

354
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It's above my pay grade. But for the sake of

355
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my novel, let's say that God is a thinking being,

356
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and I would wonder if he sees all these people

357
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running around doing these pretty horrible things in his name,

358
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if he would say, yeah, not my intention. So as

359
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an experiment in Children of Abraham, I bring God down

360
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to the earth in the form of ticker tape messages

361
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that appear in Times Square and other ticker tapes around

362
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the world, and on the bottom of your TV screen.

363
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He's mess just from God. Start appearing. People and see

364
00:25:03.519 --> 00:25:07.640
it in their own native languages. Miracles start happening. And

365
00:25:08.480 --> 00:25:11.359
will it make a difference in the world? I have

366
00:25:11.599 --> 00:25:17.720
some my characters are flawed with addictions and arrogances and

367
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sloth and slovenliness and the like. And the question I

368
00:25:22.480 --> 00:25:25.279
guess of the book is you know what kind of

369
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law is redeemable? Who would pay attention? And would the

370
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world even care? It was just an experiment of thought,

371
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and then I said, well, let's play with it, and

372
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it wound up being a book, which I'm really happy

373
00:25:42.160 --> 00:25:45.279
to say was I self published. But now it's been

374
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picked up by a national publisher. So it's it's being

375
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regenerated by Kendall Hunt.

376
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And the message and the message.

377
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Is, yeah, let's not be hypocritical and and let's let's

378
00:26:07.599 --> 00:26:10.279
let's if we if we feel that there is a

379
00:26:10.359 --> 00:26:13.160
force of good in the world and that it's worthy,

380
00:26:14.359 --> 00:26:18.480
however you may perceive it, let's abide by it.

381
00:26:20.599 --> 00:26:24.880
Yeah, okay, And what about I am the way that

382
00:26:25.319 --> 00:26:25.839
can get.

383
00:26:25.960 --> 00:26:28.839
Yeah interesting, So I am the way. So you know,

384
00:26:28.880 --> 00:26:32.359
you already know that I. I I grew up as

385
00:26:32.400 --> 00:26:35.240
a nontheist and then went to Dallas. And when I

386
00:26:35.279 --> 00:26:38.119
came to North Carolina, there aren't a lot of Dallas,

387
00:26:38.119 --> 00:26:45.200
so I started tending Buddhist groups. And then, funny you

388
00:26:45.240 --> 00:26:51.519
would say, I wound up marrying a Southern Baptist Bible literalist.

389
00:26:53.400 --> 00:26:57.240
It was It was really kind of funny because her

390
00:26:57.359 --> 00:26:59.640
family kept asking her if she was going to be

391
00:26:59.759 --> 00:27:04.599
yoke to a heathen, and I had to go and

392
00:27:04.720 --> 00:27:10.200
pass the mustard test with her pastor, and so it

393
00:27:10.319 --> 00:27:13.960
was fun It was a funny thing. But my wife

394
00:27:14.119 --> 00:27:18.079
is truly a saint. She's the kind of person that

395
00:27:18.119 --> 00:27:22.960
when she sees the need and sees someone that needs

396
00:27:23.000 --> 00:27:26.200
to be helped. I mean, there's not even a debate

397
00:27:26.240 --> 00:27:28.759
in her mind. She just moves into it and takes

398
00:27:28.799 --> 00:27:33.279
care of it. And I think we shared the same

399
00:27:33.359 --> 00:27:35.920
question of life. Have we done it off? And that's

400
00:27:35.960 --> 00:27:40.680
where we meet. And so the one thing that we

401
00:27:40.680 --> 00:27:44.200
could not talk about really was our beliefs because I

402
00:27:44.240 --> 00:27:48.680
had trouble with her science, so to speak, biblical science,

403
00:27:49.400 --> 00:27:52.119
and she had trouble with myself because it was just weird.

404
00:27:53.759 --> 00:27:58.759
And so it was an area that we could not

405
00:27:58.880 --> 00:28:02.920
come together on. But as she would come back from

406
00:28:03.000 --> 00:28:08.359
church on Sundays and tell me about the sermon and

407
00:28:08.440 --> 00:28:11.799
the like, I started to notice that there were things

408
00:28:11.839 --> 00:28:16.480
that she was saying. In Taoism, the seminole book is

409
00:28:16.519 --> 00:28:19.720
called a Dowda jing, which means the classical book of

410
00:28:19.759 --> 00:28:23.799
the Way of Virtue, and there's eighty one chapters. And

411
00:28:23.839 --> 00:28:26.880
I would think, oh, well, that's just like this chapter,

412
00:28:27.079 --> 00:28:30.160
and that's just like this, or that's just like this

413
00:28:30.279 --> 00:28:37.359
sutra in Buddhism, and the similarities blew me away. So

414
00:28:37.440 --> 00:28:39.839
I said, maybe I can do something with this. And

415
00:28:40.480 --> 00:28:43.599
I started looking at the Dowda DJing with the eighty

416
00:28:43.640 --> 00:28:47.440
one chapters, and I'd take a couplet or maybe four

417
00:28:47.519 --> 00:28:50.759
or five lines, and then start looking in the Bible.

418
00:28:50.880 --> 00:28:53.559
And the more I did this, the more impressed I was.

419
00:28:54.000 --> 00:28:59.319
Not necessarily with the historical, with the stories, and certainly

420
00:28:59.359 --> 00:29:03.640
not with a life out of the institutional religion, but

421
00:29:04.119 --> 00:29:06.920
as far as the teachings go and the wisdom of

422
00:29:06.960 --> 00:29:14.200
the Bible, it blew me away. So I started reimagining

423
00:29:14.640 --> 00:29:17.720
the lesson that I had in the Jing that was

424
00:29:17.759 --> 00:29:21.559
written by loud Zeus five hundred years before Jesus, and

425
00:29:21.640 --> 00:29:28.039
I would find similar in the Bible and rewrite it

426
00:29:28.079 --> 00:29:32.519
in Christian terms. And every time I did it, she goes, oh,

427
00:29:32.519 --> 00:29:36.279
I get that. And we would have these wonderful discussions

428
00:29:36.319 --> 00:29:40.880
and get into our cosmologies really deeply, and it was

429
00:29:40.920 --> 00:29:44.519
such a bonding thing that I was just motivated to

430
00:29:44.559 --> 00:29:46.640
go on and do the next chapter, in the next chapter,

431
00:29:46.680 --> 00:29:49.519
in the next chapter. Finally I did all eighty one chapters,

432
00:29:50.000 --> 00:29:57.440
and it wound up to be a Christian devotional without

433
00:29:57.480 --> 00:30:02.240
any of the dogma of institutional religion, without any of

434
00:30:02.279 --> 00:30:06.039
the exclusivity my way or the highway stuff, but just

435
00:30:06.200 --> 00:30:13.640
the pure teachings of Jesus Christ said in a different

436
00:30:13.720 --> 00:30:16.759
cadence and kind of with a different feel to it,

437
00:30:17.279 --> 00:30:22.480
more like that pithy Confucius like sayings. And she would

438
00:30:22.559 --> 00:30:26.960
read it and she said, you know, my pastors have

439
00:30:27.039 --> 00:30:30.400
always taught me about you know, the Seven Tribes and

440
00:30:31.599 --> 00:30:36.559
Jehovah and Jerusalem and all the history and everything else,

441
00:30:36.920 --> 00:30:40.839
but none of them has ever taught me to appreciate

442
00:30:41.000 --> 00:30:45.480
Jesus the way what you've written has been.

443
00:30:45.599 --> 00:30:49.640
Yeah, And I love that. I absolutely love that. I

444
00:30:50.160 --> 00:30:52.359
you know, one of the things I've done is similarly

445
00:30:52.599 --> 00:30:56.759
with Buddhism, is trying to compare the basic teachings Buddhism

446
00:30:56.960 --> 00:31:00.279
and saying that you know what that if you get

447
00:31:00.440 --> 00:31:02.640
if you get rid of the religion, you get rid

448
00:31:02.640 --> 00:31:06.079
of all of the stuff that's been pushed through religion

449
00:31:06.559 --> 00:31:11.359
and get to the true teachings. They're so similar. Yeah,

450
00:31:11.400 --> 00:31:15.960
And you know, there's different levels and certainly slightly different

451
00:31:16.000 --> 00:31:19.319
messages that go on, but if you really look at it,

452
00:31:19.400 --> 00:31:23.480
there's a basis of truth, of the goodness of man,

453
00:31:24.160 --> 00:31:29.640
and how they can become that point of as you say,

454
00:31:29.720 --> 00:31:33.240
as you moved, you know, one of compassion, one of kindness,

455
00:31:33.240 --> 00:31:35.599
wanting to give back to the community, all of those

456
00:31:35.640 --> 00:31:41.000
types of things. It's all similar, and yeah, for some reason,

457
00:31:41.079 --> 00:31:45.240
the world says no, if I'm this, you're wrong or

458
00:31:45.279 --> 00:31:48.559
you know, and we see all of these wars occurring

459
00:31:48.640 --> 00:31:49.240
because of it.

460
00:31:51.440 --> 00:31:53.680
Yeah, it seems like such a waste of energy.

461
00:31:55.480 --> 00:31:58.680
Yeah, yeah, it really is. And you know, I'm curious

462
00:31:58.720 --> 00:32:00.559
because I know you. You worked with a lot of

463
00:32:00.559 --> 00:32:04.200
people with a lot of different type of things. One

464
00:32:04.240 --> 00:32:06.400
of the things that as I was reading a little

465
00:32:06.400 --> 00:32:09.160
bit about what you do is working with people with

466
00:32:09.200 --> 00:32:14.759
addictions and how you use mindfulness, meditation, whatever you want

467
00:32:14.759 --> 00:32:17.960
to call it to help people overcome their addictions. What

468
00:32:19.319 --> 00:32:21.960
is that process that you have found to be successful

469
00:32:22.119 --> 00:32:23.519
through that way.

470
00:32:24.119 --> 00:32:29.440
So I would say that that meditation doesn't take the

471
00:32:29.720 --> 00:32:33.960
place of a good program like a twelve step program,

472
00:32:34.240 --> 00:32:38.039
and it doesn't take the place of therapy, but it

473
00:32:38.160 --> 00:32:47.160
does turbocharge them. It is a wonderful addition. It's like bestally,

474
00:32:47.240 --> 00:32:50.519
I can say it turbo charges them, and I can.

475
00:32:51.240 --> 00:32:58.680
For example, if a person is in CBT cognitive behavioral therapy,

476
00:33:00.079 --> 00:33:02.920
what you're going to be learning is that something happens

477
00:33:03.519 --> 00:33:07.119
and you have a thought and because of whatever that

478
00:33:07.279 --> 00:33:10.400
thought is, and it usually only lasts for a brief

479
00:33:10.559 --> 00:33:14.319
moment before it turns into an emotion or a feeling,

480
00:33:15.079 --> 00:33:19.200
and then based on that feeling, that kind of determines

481
00:33:19.279 --> 00:33:23.640
what your response to that action is going to be.

482
00:33:24.519 --> 00:33:29.400
And so CBT really talks about trying to identify the

483
00:33:29.480 --> 00:33:34.480
thought that you have before you respond, and if you

484
00:33:34.480 --> 00:33:37.039
can grab a hold of that thought and maybe change

485
00:33:37.119 --> 00:33:41.759
the thought, maybe you can change your reaction. So that's

486
00:33:41.839 --> 00:33:44.559
the whole kind of you know, CBT in a nutshell.

487
00:33:45.400 --> 00:33:52.200
So with meditation, where we actually practice watching our thoughts,

488
00:33:52.839 --> 00:33:58.319
it turbocharges the therapy that you know, a turbocharge is

489
00:33:58.319 --> 00:34:01.680
someone who's speaking to a therapy is who can easily

490
00:34:01.839 --> 00:34:05.720
and much more easily begin to identify the thoughts that

491
00:34:05.759 --> 00:34:10.800
they have when things happen. One of the processes that

492
00:34:10.880 --> 00:34:16.239
we go through a meditation, it's not just watching your thoughts.

493
00:34:16.880 --> 00:34:20.320
As you gain skill in doing that, then we start

494
00:34:20.719 --> 00:34:24.480
classifying our thoughts. And we have the thought, we don't

495
00:34:24.519 --> 00:34:27.599
just watch it. We say, oh, that's a betting thought,

496
00:34:27.719 --> 00:34:29.639
you know when you think, I bet this guy's gonna

497
00:34:29.639 --> 00:34:34.280
blah blah blah, or that's a remorseful thought, or that's

498
00:34:34.400 --> 00:34:42.159
a projecting I'm projecting there, or that's a judging thought.

499
00:34:42.840 --> 00:34:45.639
So we start to classify our thoughts and as we

500
00:34:45.760 --> 00:34:50.039
classify them, it's kind of like organizing a messy desk.

501
00:34:50.639 --> 00:34:54.639
And although we may not have really done any tasks,

502
00:34:54.760 --> 00:34:59.920
because our thoughts are now recognizable as falling into category,

503
00:35:00.280 --> 00:35:04.760
they're kind of organized. Our mind starts to get organized,

504
00:35:05.760 --> 00:35:11.000
and so that whole process helps us to become more

505
00:35:11.039 --> 00:35:14.880
aware of the consequences of our actions, because we're living

506
00:35:14.960 --> 00:35:21.079
in real time. And the thing that really helps people

507
00:35:21.119 --> 00:35:24.480
to work out of their addictions is being able to

508
00:35:24.559 --> 00:35:29.800
connect what I do to the consequence of it, because

509
00:35:29.920 --> 00:35:36.039
mostly addiction is all about doing what you're doing and

510
00:35:36.079 --> 00:35:40.280
not even want to thinking about the consequences and the like.

511
00:35:40.880 --> 00:35:45.519
And when you start to be able to look at

512
00:35:45.559 --> 00:35:51.360
it non judgmentally so that it's not threatening, you could

513
00:35:51.360 --> 00:35:51.960
be with it.

514
00:35:52.239 --> 00:35:52.440
You know.

515
00:35:53.599 --> 00:35:55.840
One of the old adages we have is what you

516
00:35:55.960 --> 00:36:00.400
resist persists, but what you can be with will let

517
00:36:00.480 --> 00:36:00.719
you be.

518
00:36:02.440 --> 00:36:04.840
Oh, I like that one. I like that one. So

519
00:36:05.960 --> 00:36:08.679
you know, it's interesting to me because as you're talking

520
00:36:08.719 --> 00:36:11.440
about meditation, and like I say, as I've talked to

521
00:36:11.480 --> 00:36:15.320
different people about meditation, you know, you talk about what

522
00:36:16.119 --> 00:36:19.519
about brings those reactions, what brings those thoughts and so forth,

523
00:36:19.960 --> 00:36:22.760
and there are those that suggest that through meditation and

524
00:36:22.800 --> 00:36:26.599
through perhaps you know, individual coaching or therapy, you can

525
00:36:26.679 --> 00:36:32.159
get back to those imprints that came about early childhood,

526
00:36:32.400 --> 00:36:35.079
or even for those that are willing to accept it,

527
00:36:35.159 --> 00:36:40.559
even generational imprints through DNA that tend to be there.

528
00:36:40.559 --> 00:36:43.360
And we can't understand why on Earth am I acting

529
00:36:43.400 --> 00:36:47.119
this way until we get into that. So what are

530
00:36:47.159 --> 00:36:51.239
your thoughts about, how can meditation help with that? Or

531
00:36:51.400 --> 00:36:55.880
is meditation merely and adjunct to seeing someone who can

532
00:36:56.079 --> 00:36:59.199
guide us in a correct way? What are your thoughts

533
00:36:59.239 --> 00:36:59.519
on that?

534
00:37:00.119 --> 00:37:04.840
Yeah, I think that that's very true. I think that

535
00:37:05.320 --> 00:37:08.679
when we're born, you, well, you and I will both

536
00:37:08.760 --> 00:37:12.280
remember the old blackboards. You know, now we have whiteboards everywhere.

537
00:37:12.760 --> 00:37:15.800
We remember the old blackboards, and remember when they were

538
00:37:15.840 --> 00:37:19.079
real new and you wrote on it with a piece

539
00:37:19.119 --> 00:37:22.960
of chalk. You couldn't erase it. It was like imprinted

540
00:37:23.000 --> 00:37:26.599
into the blackboard. The only thing you could do was

541
00:37:26.679 --> 00:37:29.039
write on it and erase and right on an erase.

542
00:37:29.079 --> 00:37:34.320
Finally it became a gray board, but those initial chalk marks,

543
00:37:35.079 --> 00:37:38.320
they were still down there. And I kind of think

544
00:37:38.360 --> 00:37:41.719
of our brain the same way that when we're young,

545
00:37:42.159 --> 00:37:45.760
there's a lot of impressions and thoughts and feelings and

546
00:37:45.800 --> 00:37:49.880
emotions that are like those first chalk marks, and then

547
00:37:49.920 --> 00:37:53.719
we live life and it all becomes lost under kind

548
00:37:53.760 --> 00:37:59.679
of a fog of grayness. But if you meditate, and

549
00:37:59.719 --> 00:38:02.559
it doesn't have I mean the first time, you know,

550
00:38:02.639 --> 00:38:06.000
the first few months of meditation, you're just excited to

551
00:38:06.079 --> 00:38:07.599
learn a new skill. It's kind of like if you

552
00:38:07.679 --> 00:38:09.800
learn to play tennis, you're just excited to get the

553
00:38:09.800 --> 00:38:12.599
ball over the net, right, You're not worried about winning

554
00:38:12.599 --> 00:38:15.639
the game. You're just you're just happy to be able

555
00:38:15.679 --> 00:38:19.599
to hit the ball. And meditations kind of like that.

556
00:38:19.800 --> 00:38:24.440
But as you progress, those that fog starts to lift.

557
00:38:24.880 --> 00:38:28.320
And that's why, you know, for a person that takes

558
00:38:28.320 --> 00:38:33.679
the practice on seriously, there's nothing like an experienced, you know,

559
00:38:33.920 --> 00:38:37.960
several year meditating coach. There's nothing like a coach. I mean,

560
00:38:38.000 --> 00:38:40.480
you can go to apps, you can have you can

561
00:38:40.559 --> 00:38:42.920
have books, you know, you can do a lot of

562
00:38:42.960 --> 00:38:46.280
self study, you can do all that, but at some

563
00:38:46.480 --> 00:38:48.639
point they're nothing like a coach.

564
00:38:49.559 --> 00:38:53.159
Amen to that. Amen to that. So as we close,

565
00:38:53.760 --> 00:38:55.960
what would what would be a message that you would

566
00:38:56.000 --> 00:38:58.079
really like to share with the audience.

567
00:38:59.000 --> 00:39:05.280
I would say that don't be your small self. You

568
00:39:05.320 --> 00:39:11.559
know most of us are satisfied with you know, our

569
00:39:11.920 --> 00:39:15.760
kind of identity, which I call that our small self.

570
00:39:15.800 --> 00:39:20.199
And we are so much more. We are so much

571
00:39:20.360 --> 00:39:23.760
more than that. There is so much more in life

572
00:39:23.800 --> 00:39:30.159
that is available. Once we can allow ourselves to be vulnerable,

573
00:39:30.559 --> 00:39:36.000
we can allow ourselves to adventure out to experience awe

574
00:39:36.119 --> 00:39:41.760
and beauty, to open the heart. I would say, if

575
00:39:41.760 --> 00:39:45.440
you could live your life this way, have a strong back,

576
00:39:46.880 --> 00:39:47.840
but a soft heart.

577
00:39:49.880 --> 00:39:52.719
Amen. And how do people find you? Bob?

578
00:39:53.800 --> 00:39:57.400
Well, if you're interested in meditation, I just put together

579
00:39:57.440 --> 00:40:02.519
a little forty foot forty page book that's free. It's

580
00:40:02.559 --> 00:40:08.079
an ebook, and you can email me at Bob at

581
00:40:08.519 --> 00:40:12.599
a wisanhappylife dot com, or you can just go to

582
00:40:12.679 --> 00:40:17.360
my website a wiseanhappylife dot com.

583
00:40:17.400 --> 00:40:19.840
And then they can download that book on meditation. So

584
00:40:19.880 --> 00:40:22.920
you talk about how do we learn to meditate better?

585
00:40:24.039 --> 00:40:27.159
The name of it is is meditation? For me? What

586
00:40:27.280 --> 00:40:31.920
it is, what it isn't, how to do it? And

587
00:40:32.039 --> 00:40:33.199
how to do it?

588
00:40:33.880 --> 00:40:37.719
Okay? Cool? And your books, how do they find your

589
00:40:37.719 --> 00:40:40.639
books in general? Other than the free one.

590
00:40:40.679 --> 00:40:44.360
They can go on to that website and there's our links,

591
00:40:44.480 --> 00:40:46.880
or they could go to I Am the Way book

592
00:40:47.199 --> 00:40:49.039
dot com.

593
00:40:49.079 --> 00:40:53.000
Wonderful, well, Bob, thank you. This has been interesting. You know,

594
00:40:53.039 --> 00:40:55.519
I've not really had anyone that can get so in

595
00:40:55.639 --> 00:40:58.920
depth about meditation and how we do it and why

596
00:40:59.000 --> 00:41:00.599
we do it and so on and so forth. So

597
00:41:00.679 --> 00:41:03.199
I really appreciate your insights on this. Well.

598
00:41:03.360 --> 00:41:06.199
Thank you for I mean, this is my passion, so

599
00:41:06.320 --> 00:41:09.559
I thank you for allowing me to do what I

600
00:41:09.639 --> 00:41:10.199
love doing.

601
00:41:10.920 --> 00:41:13.840
Uh you bet, folks, thanks for listening. I hope you

602
00:41:13.880 --> 00:41:17.599
really enjoyed this, and please go to those websites in

603
00:41:17.719 --> 00:41:21.000
particularly A Wise and Happy life dot com and really,

604
00:41:21.159 --> 00:41:22.960
you know, download the book and learn a little bit

605
00:41:23.000 --> 00:41:25.800
more about meditation and see if that is something that

606
00:41:25.880 --> 00:41:29.199
can be effective for you. So this is doctor Doug saying,

607
00:41:29.239 --> 00:41:33.679
have a wonderful week, and no mistay, no mistake,