June 16, 2026

Stop Airbrushing God — Phil Tague on Covenant Faith and Coming Home

Stop Airbrushing God — Phil Tague on Covenant Faith and Coming Home
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We shape God into someone comfortable. Someone who fits our life. But what happens when we stop airbrushing and start seeking? Phil Tague unpacks the difference between a faith built on performance and one rooted in oneness with God.
https://www.philltague.com/

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WEBVTT

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This program is designed to provide general information with regards

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to the subject matters covered. This information is given with

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the understanding that neither the hosts, guests, sponsors, or station

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are engaged in rendering any specific and personal medical, financial,

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legal counseling, professional service, or any advice.

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You should seek the services.

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Of competent professionals before applying or trying any suggested ideas.

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At the end of the day, it's not about what

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you have or even what you've accomplished. It's about what

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you've done with those accomplishments. It's about who you've lifted up,

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who you've made better. It's about what you've given back.

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Denzel Washington, Welcome to inspire vision. Our sole purpose is

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to elevate the lives of others and to inspire you.

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To do the same.

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Bill welcome, so good to be here. Glad we finally

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got this to work out.

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Yeah, and I'm excited, you know, And I want you

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to tell the audience a little bit about you your

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growing up and how that has affected you and what

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you're doing now. One of the reasons, you know it's rare.

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In fact, you're the first first pastor I have ever

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interviewed on my podcast. I tried to be real careful

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about that. But what hit me and what really motivated

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me to start looking was I was on Facebook and

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there was a post, not someone that I know, but

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for some reason it showed up and it was a

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young lady i'd say in her late teens, early twenties,

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and the comment was help me. I am so confused.

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I'm trying to determine do I pray to Jesus' doory,

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pray to God or Heavenly Father? And I thought, you

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know what, that has created such an issue for people,

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I think, and a lot of stress for people. So anyway,

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with that said, share with the audience who you are,

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mentioned a little bit about the book that you've written,

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and then we'll go from there.

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Okay, Yeah, So you know, like you said, my name's

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Phil Tagg. I am a pastor in the Wesleyan denomination.

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I'm in Sioux Fall, South Dakota, living. I moved away

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and then ended up back planting a church, starting a

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new church in our hometown back in two thousand and

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and nine, and we've been here for seventeen years doing

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this work.

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Me and my wife married for.

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Josh Shia twenty five years now have three kids, two

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of them are getting close to graduating college. Then ten

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years later we adopted one. He's eleven. Now that's a

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little bit of my story.

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Now.

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I grew up in an adoptive home. I was adopted

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as one of four adopted children. And I grew up

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in a home that.

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Was faith based, Christian, faith based.

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And you know, my dad in particular, really good, really

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good guy, really passionate guy, and really wanted us to

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have faith and to believe, but took a pretty legalistic

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approach to things. I think that was his military background.

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I think I was just kind of some of that,

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but he was. He was very much uh, you know,

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just a lot of a lot of rules, a lot

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of if you do this, you're rewarded. If you do this,

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you're you know that you're punished. And it was all

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well meaning. I was, you know, I loved my parents.

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My parents have passed, but I love my parents. Uh,

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had a beautiful relationship with them. But but really struggled

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in my faith between Like I don't know if you

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know anything about the enneagram. I'm an niogram three. So

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I'm like a performer achiever. I want to like get

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the gold Star and and and do the you know,

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do well. And and so I wanted to I wanted

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to do I wanted to follow Jesus well.

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But also just all these rules, all.

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These regulations, I just like, I would read the scriptures

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and I I would read these stories and it didn't

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seem to match with what I was experiencing so often

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in the local church and in my home, and just

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it was in a wrestling match there. So I was

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back and forth between kind of doing the things I

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wanted to do and then trying to be a you know, good,

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you know, Bible believing kid, and then doing the things

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I want to do. And and you know, I felt

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called into full time ministry after my senior year of

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high school, and I did not want to do that.

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I had all these pictures in my head of what

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that meant. I thought I was going to have to

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marry a church organist, you know, and beople for my

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whole life and do all that. And I just had

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all these things I didn't want to do. And so

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I ended up going my freshman year to college to

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study for ministry. And I was spending the year studying

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for ministry, and at the same time, I was wrestling

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with my faith and whether or not I believed in

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the first place, and and and the way that I

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was going about it was I was searching for evidence

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that every Christian.

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Was a hypocrite.

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Well, Christians are people, so that was not hard to find, right,

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you know, because we all struggle with hypocrisy to some level.

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And at the end of that year, I decided I'm done,

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and I walked away from from that calling and from

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faith and just wandered for a while.

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And you know, it took.

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It took a lot of wandering and a lot of

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you know. I remember waking up one morning and I

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don't remember how I got home, and I don't remember

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the party I'd been at the night before, and I

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was just miserable. And it was the first time I

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felt like I had an encounter with God. I was

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laying there in my bed feeling pretty miserable, and I

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felt like I heard the voice of God say to me, so,

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you think the answer.

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To hypocrisy is hypocrisy? Interesting?

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And it was the first time I realized that faith

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for me had always been about a standard or hitting,

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you know, trying to list the rules. It had never

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been about a relationship and that sort of transformed my

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faith and sent me on the on the path that

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I'm on today.

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Oh that's wonderful. Yeah, and it's so interesting. I think

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people forget how we can get that in where you

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can call it inspiration and we can call it whatever

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we want to. But the reality is is that there

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is that realm that if we can tap into it,

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or if it needs to tap into us, that we

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can get the messages that are meant for us. And

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I really believe that, So I appreciate what you're talking about.

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You know, it's interesting you talk about what your experience

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was as a child, and as I've done a bunch

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of research on this prayer to our talking, one of

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the things that was fascinating to me is there's over

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ten major different serious denominations of Christianity, and then when

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you get beyond that, it gets into hundreds of not thousands,

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of different denominations, and each one believes something a little

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bit different. And one of the things that fascinates me

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about what you when I was reading a lot about

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what you're talking about, is that you talk about a

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christ covenant, You talk about having a new relationship with God,

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but you have kind of moved at least, and I'm

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assuming here, so correct me if I'm wrong, but you've

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kind of moved away from just salvation. As far as

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you know, I believe in Christ. Therefore I'm saved. I

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accept Christ in my life. There's something meaning that it's

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we're changed from the inside out, something that changes a

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little bit, and so there's something just beyond that. Am

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I correct in that?

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Yeah? I mean I would.

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I would say, you know, salvation when you're talking about

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Christian ideals, Okay, salvation is so often treated like the

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finish line, like Okay, I got saved, I prayed a prayer,

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I did a thing. Now I'm in I'm going to heaven,

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and it so often doesn't affect the way people are living,

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or if it does affect the way they're living, they're like, well,

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now I got to follow this list to rules, and

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that's what this thing is. But salvation was never meant

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to be the finish line. Was meant to be the

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starting line, to be the beginning of a journey with

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a towards a God who wants a relationship with us.

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From a Christian standpoint, this entire thing is about a God,

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you know, I mean the most famous scripture of John

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three sixteen.

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God so loved the world that he gave his one

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and only sons.

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So the whole ideal is about a God who has

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always been seeking after us and seeking to fulfill this

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relationship with us.

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And that's the part I think a lot of Christians.

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Just miss well, And it's interesting. I looked up I

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was so curious. In fact, one of the things I

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do is i'm studying the Bible, is I want to

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understand the real words, and so I go back and

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really try to understand what's the true meaning Hebrew wise,

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Greek wise of these words. And so I looked up saved.

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And here's the answer that I got, sozo, which is

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the great word itself carries a sense of rescue, yes,

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but healing, restoration, being made whole, being brought safely through danger.

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It's really talking about restoring the entire person. And I

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think that's why one of these why I wanted to

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talk to you about this and have you on the show,

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because I think so often you know a lot of

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people that I talked to on my podcast, and I

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have done over three hundred and sixty podcast here. One

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of the things is you know, we talked about personal transformation,

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and so often there's not much quote, well, I was

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going to say, there's spirituality involved, but somewhere along the line,

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there's not much talk about God, our heavenly Father in

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that relationship. And I thought to myself, you know what,

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I think it's so important that we understand that that

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concept has kind of been launched as interesting as we

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go into history. And as I studied that a bit

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and researched that and read a lot of you know,

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true researchers, how in the very beginning there literally was

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in fact Deuteronomy with the dead Sea squirrels. It came

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up interesting that el or Elohim, God actually talked to

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his sons, one of whom was Yahweh or Adonai, and

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aside him the children of Israel and ultimately this world,

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this earth. And so you read that, and then it

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talks about how as history continued, the kings and so

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forth decided, you know what, we don't want that. In fact,

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they talked about Astra, who was his consort or his

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wife whatever. They moved that out of the temple. They

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got that all destroyed, and all of a sudden, by

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the time Christ came. It talked about how Adanai and

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El ultimately by the historians of philosophers, were melded into one.

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And so when Christ came, it was fascinating to me

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that one of the things he was doing was trying

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to correct everything that had happened within the Jewish situation,

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in the Hebrew situation, and so a lot of the

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things he was talking about, and he was fighting against

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the Philistines and you know, and so forth, because he

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was trying to say, you know what, I've fulfilled this law.

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Now here's what I want you to understand. And have

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you looked at that that way at all and.

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Looked at that perspective, you know, I mean obviously, I

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mean my Judeo Christian concept is is Western eyes and

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shape by you know, how I grew up and so

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you're growing up in Thailand.

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Are our histories and understandings are.

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You know, going to maybe not match up entirely, but

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but yes, the idea that Jesus came to not abolish law,

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but fulfill it and to complete what was you know,

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the purpose of this entire thing in the first place,

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you know, to do what we could not do for ourselves,

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for for certain because we continue to make it about

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the wrong things and we continue to miss the right thing,

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which is this relationship with God that that you know.

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So yeah, I mean it's a lot of the reason

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that I wrote the book is is you know, in America,

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in Western Christianity, American Christianity, uh, this idea of salvation

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is like you know, the description you read was so

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holistic and so so robust and frankly lifelong. You know,

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this lifelong because obviously none of us are are perfect,

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you know, on this side of this this earthly realm.

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But this idea that salvation begins, this relationship with God.

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And yet there is through this process like in the

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scriptures in church, we often you know, say, pray this

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prayer of salvation. But Jesus did you know, Jesus never

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prayed to prayer salvation with anybody. No, he never prayed

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that's it. He didn't do that at all. He never said, well,

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if you want to, if you want to follow me,

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you got to, like now, pray this prayer in the

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name of me. And you know he didn't do it.

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He just said come follow me. He said, daily, deny yourself,

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take it across and follow me.

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It was.

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It was a journey and a relationship, and it was

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ongoing and it was progressive.

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And you know that in our denomination, the.

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Wessington denomination, we talk about the process of being sanctified,

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which is a scriptural concept that starts at salvation. But

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it's this idea of day by day being refined and

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growing more and more in the image enlightness of the

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one we're following. And while in this lifetime we will

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never achieve that perfectly, the goal of the desire is

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that every day I become more like Christ, that every

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day I grow in that relationship with God and I

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become more like His son Jesus. That's the that's the

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the picture in the journey, yes.

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You know. And what's what's fascinating to me and this

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concept that I've heard before, and I don't know if

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I read in your bio or not, but the concept

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of reading the Bible backwards and it talks about and

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I've listened to various people, historians and so forth, talk

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about this a bit. But it's interesting how if we

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have something that we believe, and you know, we always

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have to be right. That's just human nature. I'm right

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that we take that quote dogma belief, and then we

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go back to the Bible and find a scripture that

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proves that we're right, and we ignore all the other

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stuff that is I would not say incorrect, you know,

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in direct contradiction to that, but rather that expands upon it.

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And I think that's that's the key. I know that

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there's some that say, well, there's so many contradictions in

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the Bible, and I think if you look at it

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from the standpoint of their statements, that make and then

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as they're expanded upon, now all of a sudden, we

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start makes sense. Why is it that we so often

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want to go backwards that we want to have our

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document and now we want to find something in the

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Bible that's going to prove us right.

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Well, so that's I mean, that's a great segue into

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introducing you know, we're talking about this book Jesus be

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the centerfold that I wrote, choosing Covenant faith over airbrush Christianity.

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The reason we do that is okay, and this is

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going to be how I defined it in my book.

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My goal in my teaching and anything I write is

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to take a pretty pretty deep concept and try to

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put it on the bottom shelf where everybody can reach.

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It's that's my goal. Okay, So not to be over simplistic,

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but to unpack a truth.

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Right.

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The reason we do that is because if if I

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can shape God in my image, then I can justify

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my life.

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Right.

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But if I'm discovering a God that is greater and

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more powerful than me, and he wants me to shape

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my image, and I have to sometimes I don't want

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to shape be shaped by what I'm learning, you know

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what I mean. I just want to believe what I

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want to believe. And so the metaphor I use in

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my book. So a little bit about my background. I

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was exposed to pornography really young, like eight nine years old,

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and it kind of got his hooks in me. And

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one time I got caught by my dad and he

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was pretty upset and he was, uh, you know, I

305
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was getting in trouble, and he he made the comment,

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you know, those images aren't even real. They're just like airbrush.

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They're not even like real real. And I realized that

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that didn't matter to me, and that was a little weird.

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But as I as I.

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Got older and I thought back on that, what I

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realized is that my while lust was a byproduct of

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of what I was struggling with.

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What I was.

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Really longing for was real relationship with the cost without

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the cost of intimacy, right I wanted to. I wanted

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something that felt intimate without the cost of an intimate relationship.

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And I think that's why it, you know, in the

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Christian faith in particularly, I think that's why people struggle.

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We want to bend, bend God's word to our lives.

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We want to we want to take our dogmas and

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read them into scripture.

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Is because.

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I want to airbrush Jesus into somebody that's palatable to me.

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And when you read Scripture.

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He says, there's always going to be things that you

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don't like or you want to wrestle with and or

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dismiss or color with the black highlighter, you know what

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I mean, just cross it on out. And and I

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think what we're really longing for is I think we

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were designed to be in a relationship with God.

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That what I believe. That's my personal belief.

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And I think that we want all of the benefits

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of an intimate relationship with God, but none of the

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work of intimacy.

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Well, and it's interesting, you know, we get into the

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whole concept. And there's so many places in the New

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Testament that talk about, you know, the Father and I

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are one, and you know initially that that has created

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and particularly coming from the Catholic Church in the Council

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of Nice and then later counsels, that they created the

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sole concept of all in one, one and all blah

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blah blah, that type of thing. And I know that

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there's a love to believe that, and I respect that.

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But what's interesting you go back to the original Greek

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and Hebrew word and meaning again, and it has nothing

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to do with melding together. It has to do with purpose,

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It has to do with representative and so forth, and

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particularly when you get into when he says again you

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know that they may be one with me and with

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the Father, that we may all be sanctified together. And

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as interesting as you talk about that, that, yes, the

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whole goal is to become one again with the Savior,

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who represents the Father, which means we want to become

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one with God, our heavenly Father once again. And that's

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I think the purpose of why we're even here on earth.

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In order to do that, we needed Christ to come

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and to perform that sacrifice that atonement so that we

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would not have to pay the justification of responsibility if

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we're willing to really seek to overcome and become more

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like him thoughts.

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Yeah, I mean I not only would we not have to,

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I don't think we could. You know we can.

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I don't think it's possible. Man, I've tried real hard

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to be good. I've tried real hard to be But

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perfect's like a thing, you know. And if perfects the standard,

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if God is perfect and holy and sovereign and all

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the things you know, I know, I mean the amount

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of places it says in scripture like hey, all your

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good deeds.

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Are like filthy rags.

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Actually, the the literal translation of that passage, as in

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Isaiah is it compares our good deeds on earth to.

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Menstrual rags, which is pretty aggressive, right.

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And but it paints a pretty clear picture that not

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that you'll never be good enough, but that hey, nothing

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you do can ever be perfect. But the fact that

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God would send his son to do that for us

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is pretty profound.

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Well, and you know you use the word perfect. That's

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another one I looked up because what I have found

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in all of my work is that oftentimes, you know,

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there are so many different imprints that are put on

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us subconsciously that create the sense that I'm not good enough,

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and that type of thing. Perfection is one of those.

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And when you get to the original meaning again in

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the Greek and Hebrew, it has nothing to do with

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without fault. It has everything to do with complete. So

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all of a sudden, when we read that again, be

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there for perfect what it is talking about, and it

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goes to what you're saying is be complete, and that

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becomes a process. And then also one of the things

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that interesting is you read different things is that it's

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a process. And you talked about sanctification. It's a process

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that occurs and occurs and occurs probably will be on

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this life.

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I I love the progressive nature of the sanctifying process.

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And and you're absolutely right, I mean, we are are

398
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understanding of perfection. You know, the idea of being complete

399
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versus the idea of being perfect is the difference between

400
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being made whole in a relationship with God versus having

401
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to earn my way and be good enough. And this

402
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has never been about being good enough. In fact, when

403
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when scripture says, hey, your good works are like filthy rags,

404
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it's it's trying to express that like, this has never

405
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been about being good enough. This about being set apart.

406
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It's being about being chosen and set apart, and you

407
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choose me, Like there's a I believe there's a relationship.

408
00:21:41.519 --> 00:21:44.559
There, but but it was never about earning. You know.

409
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I think the whole point of the majority of the.

410
00:21:47.440 --> 00:21:50.880
Old Testament is is and again I'm going to oversimplify this,

411
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but if you want a picture of what the law

412
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looks like when you have to earn it, here's what

413
00:21:56.240 --> 00:22:00.519
it is. You know, it's this complex, Like I think

414
00:22:00.559 --> 00:22:03.480
the point of the law was you can't complete I mean,

415
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and the Israelites never did perfectly keep the law. We

416
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always needed him, We always needed a mediator. That was

417
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that was I think the point.

418
00:22:13.119 --> 00:22:15.440
Yeah. Well, and you know, I used to do a

419
00:22:15.480 --> 00:22:18.559
little bit of consulting for small businesses and one of

420
00:22:18.599 --> 00:22:21.440
the concepts that I really stressed was something known as

421
00:22:21.440 --> 00:22:26.720
a KPI, a key performance indicator, And I thought about

422
00:22:26.759 --> 00:22:30.839
that as it relates to our lives and the fact

423
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that you know, when we talk about the commandments and

424
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when Christ talked about the various stories that he told about,

425
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you know, how you need to be this and be

426
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that and so forth. And I liked the concept of

427
00:22:44.279 --> 00:22:47.240
b rather than do. But I looked at that as

428
00:22:47.359 --> 00:22:50.799
key indicators. And if we looked at if we looked

429
00:22:50.799 --> 00:22:55.480
at the doing this as key indicators, where are we at?

430
00:22:55.960 --> 00:22:58.039
How are you know? Because in business, if you're not

431
00:22:58.160 --> 00:23:00.599
quite there, then you make some decis visions on what

432
00:23:00.640 --> 00:23:02.799
I need to do in order to get there. If

433
00:23:02.880 --> 00:23:06.000
we look at that in life, those key indicators is

434
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what Christ taught and then we can look at what

435
00:23:09.279 --> 00:23:12.319
have we become and at what level have we gone

436
00:23:12.359 --> 00:23:16.079
through that sanctification process, and what do we need to

437
00:23:16.119 --> 00:23:18.440
do to go to the next step, to the next step,

438
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to the next step to become even closer to Him?

439
00:23:21.720 --> 00:23:24.200
Yeah, And I mean that the goal of the whole thing.

440
00:23:25.519 --> 00:23:29.160
Is, in my in my opinion, is closest closeness to Him,

441
00:23:29.319 --> 00:23:31.759
you know what I mean, It's that desire.

442
00:23:33.039 --> 00:23:37.279
For you know, I'm a pretty firm believer.

443
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That no amount of doing the right thing can make

444
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you good enough.

445
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But like my scriptures full.

446
00:23:44.599 --> 00:23:46.839
Of things, it's calling us to call them KPIs whatever,

447
00:23:46.920 --> 00:23:49.839
you know, like, it's full of things to aspire to.

448
00:23:51.720 --> 00:23:57.440
But they are they are in my opinion, a like

449
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I think about it this way. I've been married almost

450
00:24:00.000 --> 00:24:02.599
twenty five years. There are a thousand things I do

451
00:24:03.079 --> 00:24:06.279
in my marriage because there because I want to honor

452
00:24:06.319 --> 00:24:09.400
my wife, you know. And if I if I did

453
00:24:09.400 --> 00:24:12.319
those thousand things and I always thought I got to

454
00:24:12.359 --> 00:24:14.839
do this, or she's going to complain, She's going to

455
00:24:15.319 --> 00:24:19.119
my motivation for doing them. If I'm doing them because

456
00:24:19.160 --> 00:24:22.240
I think I have to do these or my wife

457
00:24:22.279 --> 00:24:26.920
will be unhappy with me, that steals the purpose of

458
00:24:26.960 --> 00:24:29.960
them from you know. But the reality is there are

459
00:24:29.960 --> 00:24:31.920
things I do because I'm like, I love her. She

460
00:24:32.000 --> 00:24:34.039
hates that I want to honor her, and so I

461
00:24:34.680 --> 00:24:38.319
take out the trash all the time because I because

462
00:24:38.359 --> 00:24:40.400
I love her. It's it's a response to my love.

463
00:24:40.759 --> 00:24:42.759
And so I think all of these things is like

464
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I mean, Scripture says, if you love me, you'll obey

465
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my commandments. It's the response of this relationship with God

466
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is he knows best. I trust him, and these are

467
00:24:56.160 --> 00:24:58.160
the things that he says are good for me, are.

468
00:24:58.000 --> 00:24:59.839
Not good for me, and they guide my life.

469
00:25:00.079 --> 00:25:03.160
So the goal of wanting to be more like him

470
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as an aspiration to be closer to him because I

471
00:25:06.200 --> 00:25:08.599
love him, because I'm in a relationship with him. That's

472
00:25:09.640 --> 00:25:13.000
how that's my understanding of how I'm navigating this thing.

473
00:25:12.960 --> 00:25:17.640
Called be well. And it's interesting, as I've talked to

474
00:25:17.680 --> 00:25:20.920
a lot of people about personal transformation and taking even

475
00:25:21.640 --> 00:25:25.480
religion out of that for a minute, it's interesting how

476
00:25:25.559 --> 00:25:28.160
we look at the fact that our lives and the

477
00:25:28.240 --> 00:25:32.160
experiences we have in our lives are merely a reflection

478
00:25:32.839 --> 00:25:36.440
of that internal subconscious belief system that we have. We

479
00:25:36.519 --> 00:25:39.880
can to attract that which we believe. So if we're

480
00:25:39.920 --> 00:25:42.359
in that situation I'm not good enough, You'll keep having

481
00:25:42.440 --> 00:25:46.200
experiences that prove you're not good enough. And I look

482
00:25:46.240 --> 00:25:48.880
at it from the standpoint of as we get into

483
00:25:48.920 --> 00:25:54.960
this whole concept of Christ, it's interesting how what we

484
00:25:55.160 --> 00:25:59.640
are reflects our behavior. And I think it's just exactly

485
00:25:59.680 --> 00:26:02.400
what you were saying that you know, if you're doing

486
00:26:02.440 --> 00:26:04.799
that because you need to make sure that your wife

487
00:26:04.799 --> 00:26:09.200
thinks you really love her, that's different than being who

488
00:26:09.240 --> 00:26:13.279
you are. Therefore, you do those things because you do

489
00:26:13.359 --> 00:26:15.880
love her, not because you want to prove that you

490
00:26:15.920 --> 00:26:16.319
love her.

491
00:26:16.839 --> 00:26:20.680
Yes, Yes, it's it's all in where does it come

492
00:26:20.680 --> 00:26:21.680
in the process?

493
00:26:21.759 --> 00:26:22.279
Right? You know?

494
00:26:22.960 --> 00:26:26.279
Again, in my in my book, I talk a lot

495
00:26:26.319 --> 00:26:29.920
about an intimate relationship with our heavenly Father, and that

496
00:26:30.000 --> 00:26:31.839
one of the ways that I define intimacy in the

497
00:26:31.839 --> 00:26:35.039
book is that intimacy is being fully known and still chosen.

498
00:26:35.680 --> 00:26:42.240
So like again in my marriage, we we equate intimacy

499
00:26:42.279 --> 00:26:47.880
with sexuality because when when you're having a sexual experience,

500
00:26:48.000 --> 00:26:49.759
you're you're pretty well known.

501
00:26:49.599 --> 00:26:52.200
You know you're pretty, and they still choose you.

502
00:26:52.240 --> 00:26:55.799
That feels pretty intimate, right, But it's it's not primarily

503
00:26:55.880 --> 00:27:00.359
a sexual thing. So when I begin to understand who

504
00:27:00.440 --> 00:27:03.599
God is, his love for me, his will for my life,

505
00:27:04.000 --> 00:27:06.119
and I began to choose him and choose to follow him,

506
00:27:06.119 --> 00:27:08.920
that increases intimacy in that relationship.

507
00:27:09.680 --> 00:27:12.680
And when I begin to understand that.

508
00:27:13.000 --> 00:27:15.119
Like who he is and who Christ is, and what

509
00:27:15.160 --> 00:27:18.200
God did for me by sending his son Jesus, and

510
00:27:18.279 --> 00:27:22.559
my understanding of him changes to this is a God

511
00:27:22.640 --> 00:27:28.160
who knows everything I've done and still wants a relationship

512
00:27:28.160 --> 00:27:31.480
with me. That the opportunity for intimacy within that relationship

513
00:27:31.480 --> 00:27:36.519
goes up. And now the rule following is a byproduct

514
00:27:36.680 --> 00:27:39.200
of the relationship and the love that I have for him,

515
00:27:39.440 --> 00:27:41.839
not a way to earn that relationship, and that was

516
00:27:42.240 --> 00:27:46.839
probably the most transformational thing for me from my childhood

517
00:27:47.000 --> 00:27:48.000
to that experience that.

518
00:27:48.000 --> 00:27:51.519
I had where I went, I'm like, I love God.

519
00:27:51.559 --> 00:27:55.200
I'm following God because I love God and I believe

520
00:27:55.200 --> 00:27:57.240
what he wants is best for me, and that begin

521
00:27:57.359 --> 00:27:59.279
to transform my life and is my life perfect?

522
00:27:59.279 --> 00:28:02.119
No? I make mistake all the time. I messed up today,

523
00:28:02.640 --> 00:28:02.839
you know.

524
00:28:03.200 --> 00:28:06.799
But but but I'm not living in a space every

525
00:28:06.839 --> 00:28:08.680
day where I'm trying to earn his favor.

526
00:28:09.160 --> 00:28:10.920
And that's a game changer.

527
00:28:11.319 --> 00:28:13.720
You know, when we make this, you know, when we

528
00:28:13.759 --> 00:28:16.640
make mistakes, that's where grace comes in. That's why he

529
00:28:16.680 --> 00:28:19.440
did what he did. And I think, particularly here we are,

530
00:28:19.640 --> 00:28:22.480
it's really fascinating that, you know, we tried to do

531
00:28:22.519 --> 00:28:24.599
this a couple of times, different days, and here we

532
00:28:24.640 --> 00:28:28.599
are at Easter time, and it's fascinating to me that

533
00:28:28.720 --> 00:28:32.000
here's the start of that week that ends in Easter

534
00:28:32.119 --> 00:28:36.480
next Sunday. And it's fascinating to me how we tend

535
00:28:36.519 --> 00:28:40.440
to not realize that, you know what, there's this whole

536
00:28:40.519 --> 00:28:44.039
realm of becoming like him. One of the questions I

537
00:28:44.079 --> 00:28:45.480
want to ask you, and I know you see this.

538
00:28:45.599 --> 00:28:48.400
I see this on Facebook, I see this on TikTok.

539
00:28:48.759 --> 00:28:54.119
There's so much argument and unkindness and rhetoric that goes

540
00:28:54.160 --> 00:28:57.799
on that you know what, this church is not true

541
00:28:57.839 --> 00:28:59.839
and this church look at all the mistakes they make

542
00:29:00.119 --> 00:29:02.960
that church, and it's about every church that you can

543
00:29:02.960 --> 00:29:05.319
think of and every denomination that you can think of.

544
00:29:06.000 --> 00:29:09.359
Why is that happening? Number one? And number two? What

545
00:29:09.440 --> 00:29:12.599
are your thoughts about it? And how do we ultimately

546
00:29:13.119 --> 00:29:15.920
stop that? Because I don't think it does any good

547
00:29:16.480 --> 00:29:19.359
to criticize everyone else.

548
00:29:19.920 --> 00:29:23.240
Yeah, yeah, I mean there are a hundred reasons why

549
00:29:23.279 --> 00:29:27.359
that happens, but you know, it breaks my heart. And honestly,

550
00:29:27.400 --> 00:29:30.359
COVID broke my heart as I watched the church react

551
00:29:30.720 --> 00:29:34.200
to COVID h and I thought, what an incredible time

552
00:29:34.200 --> 00:29:38.519
to show grace to a broken and hurting and scared world.

553
00:29:39.079 --> 00:29:41.799
And we lost our minds the church. I just think

554
00:29:41.839 --> 00:29:46.200
that the American church lost its mind. And and you know,

555
00:29:46.400 --> 00:29:51.000
I think the over simplistic answer to why it's happening

556
00:29:51.759 --> 00:29:58.880
is I want control, not surrender. Surrenders. Scary surrenders like

557
00:29:59.079 --> 00:30:00.920
even you and I have this conversation on the first

558
00:30:00.960 --> 00:30:03.599
passer that's had this conversation with you, A one hundred

559
00:30:03.599 --> 00:30:06.920
percent guaranteed you and I don't agree on everything, right, yeah,

560
00:30:06.960 --> 00:30:09.319
like even on the way we think about scripture and

561
00:30:09.319 --> 00:30:12.640
our interpretations. But the safety of a conversation like this

562
00:30:12.799 --> 00:30:16.559
doesn't exist anymore. It's just safer to stay behind a

563
00:30:16.599 --> 00:30:20.519
screen and post something. And if I can post that

564
00:30:20.599 --> 00:30:23.920
you're wrong, that makes me feel right. If my if

565
00:30:23.920 --> 00:30:26.279
I'm trying to if I'm trying to earn my way

566
00:30:26.279 --> 00:30:28.279
in this world and make sure I'm okay with a

567
00:30:28.319 --> 00:30:32.480
God that is out there, then one of the best

568
00:30:32.519 --> 00:30:34.599
ways to do that is to point out what's wrong

569
00:30:34.640 --> 00:30:36.519
with you and your church and the way you're doing things,

570
00:30:36.519 --> 00:30:38.720
Because then me and my church are fine, you and

571
00:30:38.759 --> 00:30:40.359
your faith and the way you're doing things, because me

572
00:30:40.440 --> 00:30:42.759
and my faith are fine. Now, I have a very

573
00:30:42.799 --> 00:30:47.200
strong faith and a very strong belief in how I've

574
00:30:47.240 --> 00:30:51.240
a proach scripture, but there has to be space for like,

575
00:30:51.319 --> 00:30:53.079
not everybody's going to be on that same page. And

576
00:30:53.359 --> 00:30:56.559
I might be wrong, you know, and I don't think.

577
00:30:56.640 --> 00:30:58.640
I think I've got a pretty clear but like I

578
00:30:58.680 --> 00:31:00.400
think when we get to have an it's going to

579
00:31:00.440 --> 00:31:03.160
be great because God's going to be like, oh, you Lutherans,

580
00:31:03.240 --> 00:31:05.319
you know you nailed this part oh, you are so

581
00:31:05.400 --> 00:31:07.400
far off on that, you Wesley Is you are so

582
00:31:07.519 --> 00:31:10.839
good on this provenient grace thing, You're so good on sanctification.

583
00:31:10.920 --> 00:31:12.559
But this whole part over here you met, you know,

584
00:31:12.839 --> 00:31:14.799
and I think he's gonna be like my kids. You're

585
00:31:14.839 --> 00:31:16.880
so cute. You just you messed it all, you know.

586
00:31:17.799 --> 00:31:21.279
But but I think the reason we're so divided is

587
00:31:21.319 --> 00:31:24.000
because we're we're searching for our.

588
00:31:23.960 --> 00:31:25.079
Validation the wrong things.

589
00:31:25.119 --> 00:31:27.440
I was at an event recently and John Maxwell said,

590
00:31:28.079 --> 00:31:30.240
if your values in here are okay, you don't need

591
00:31:30.279 --> 00:31:32.839
external validation. But if you don't know what you believe

592
00:31:32.839 --> 00:31:35.119
in here, if you're messed up in here, you need

593
00:31:35.160 --> 00:31:37.400
to prove yourself out here all the time. I'm just

594
00:31:37.559 --> 00:31:39.240
I'm not living in a space where I have to

595
00:31:39.240 --> 00:31:41.759
prove myself, So I don't feel the need to compete

596
00:31:41.799 --> 00:31:44.119
or be on social media or like the church down

597
00:31:44.160 --> 00:31:47.359
the street's not the enemy, They're not they And the

598
00:31:47.400 --> 00:31:49.640
things we believe different on are probably not having our

599
00:31:49.640 --> 00:31:52.720
health issues. They're probably not even worth being divided about.

600
00:31:53.440 --> 00:31:57.599
But you know, I just think people are the posture

601
00:31:57.680 --> 00:32:00.519
of their relationship with God is I need to be

602
00:32:00.599 --> 00:32:03.559
right before him, and if I can prove you're wrong.

603
00:32:03.720 --> 00:32:06.000
That makes me feel right and I feel better.

604
00:32:06.400 --> 00:32:08.920
And what is that doing? What is that doing to

605
00:32:09.039 --> 00:32:10.200
our christian.

606
00:32:10.279 --> 00:32:11.720
I mean, I think it's I think it's tearing the

607
00:32:11.799 --> 00:32:15.960
church apart. Honestly, I think that. I think that social

608
00:32:16.000 --> 00:32:18.319
media is maybe the worst thing that's happened to our

609
00:32:18.359 --> 00:32:21.000
society in my lifetime.

610
00:32:21.839 --> 00:32:26.960
And I think that, Uh, it's it's removing discourse.

611
00:32:27.400 --> 00:32:30.920
And the nature of discourse is, uh, there's there's space

612
00:32:31.000 --> 00:32:33.160
to disagree and not be on the same page and

613
00:32:33.240 --> 00:32:35.599
still call each other brother and sister. And I don't

614
00:32:35.599 --> 00:32:37.880
think that space exists anymore in our world. I think

615
00:32:37.920 --> 00:32:40.759
we live in a cancel culture, and we swipe right

616
00:32:40.799 --> 00:32:42.359
on the things we like and swipe left on the

617
00:32:42.400 --> 00:32:45.759
things we don't like, and and we we we have

618
00:32:46.480 --> 00:32:49.920
removed from ourselves any personal responsibility, you know. I mean,

619
00:32:50.160 --> 00:32:52.519
you look at the average Christian today and if they're

620
00:32:52.559 --> 00:32:56.039
struggling with something, like if I'm struggling with something, that's

621
00:32:56.119 --> 00:32:58.839
just that's just a personal struggle. But if you're struggling

622
00:32:58.839 --> 00:33:02.440
with it, it's a sin. You're a sinner. And I

623
00:33:02.480 --> 00:33:04.559
have grace for myself, but not for you. It's just

624
00:33:04.839 --> 00:33:09.519
that posture is certainly killing the credibility of the church.

625
00:33:10.039 --> 00:33:12.039
Well, and you know, you get into this whole concept

626
00:33:12.079 --> 00:33:15.000
of communication, and I think, as you brought up so well, yeah,

627
00:33:15.000 --> 00:33:17.039
we probably have a bunch of things that we don't

628
00:33:17.079 --> 00:33:21.440
agree on. But it's interesting and this has come up

629
00:33:21.440 --> 00:33:24.960
in some of my other podcasts about communication. How we

630
00:33:25.000 --> 00:33:29.839
can take opposite individuals as far as their beliefs, whether

631
00:33:29.839 --> 00:33:33.880
it's religious, political, or whatever, and if they're willing and

632
00:33:34.039 --> 00:33:38.319
able to come together and to discuss it can create

633
00:33:38.519 --> 00:33:42.000
a curiosity that you know, you bring up something and

634
00:33:42.039 --> 00:33:45.240
I'm going, yeah, I've never thought about it that way.

635
00:33:45.599 --> 00:33:47.920
I'm going to think about that a little bit more. Yes,

636
00:33:48.200 --> 00:33:50.960
And all of a sudden it creates a whole new

637
00:33:51.000 --> 00:33:55.240
realm of thought and process and an ability to be

638
00:33:55.480 --> 00:33:58.920
curious and to consider other things. And sometimes and this

639
00:33:58.960 --> 00:34:01.799
has certainly happened with me that as some of these

640
00:34:01.839 --> 00:34:04.640
things are brought up, all of a sudden, Wow, I

641
00:34:04.680 --> 00:34:07.480
never thought of that, And it literally has changed the

642
00:34:07.519 --> 00:34:09.679
direction of my thinking in some cases.

643
00:34:10.199 --> 00:34:10.719
Yeah.

644
00:34:10.840 --> 00:34:14.960
Well, and I think that there is a fear in

645
00:34:15.000 --> 00:34:18.800
the Western Church. For sure, there's there's a fear of

646
00:34:18.840 --> 00:34:21.000
our faith being challenged. But if it can't stand up

647
00:34:21.039 --> 00:34:24.719
to test. What worth is it? You know, if if

648
00:34:25.000 --> 00:34:27.119
if a human being can crumble my faith like a

649
00:34:27.119 --> 00:34:28.840
house of cards, you know, that's.

650
00:34:28.679 --> 00:34:29.559
That's a problem.

651
00:34:30.320 --> 00:34:33.599
Ideally, if we do challenge one another, maybe you know,

652
00:34:34.000 --> 00:34:36.880
ideal you learn from me, I learned from you, and

653
00:34:36.880 --> 00:34:39.800
and we're we're both better for it. Even if we

654
00:34:40.000 --> 00:34:42.679
walk away and we haven't moved each other's thought at all.

655
00:34:43.480 --> 00:34:47.119
You've actually given me the gift of challenging my faith

656
00:34:47.119 --> 00:34:48.880
in a way that caused me to go, No, I

657
00:34:48.920 --> 00:34:53.119
really do believe that, and I actually feel more affirmed

658
00:34:53.159 --> 00:34:55.840
in that, and I don't feel argumentative toward you about that.

659
00:34:55.880 --> 00:34:56.719
I learned and I grow.

660
00:34:56.960 --> 00:35:00.360
And so when our faith, you know, strich your about

661
00:35:00.360 --> 00:35:04.159
iron sharpening iron, When our faith is tested against one another,

662
00:35:05.039 --> 00:35:09.239
my faith actually that testing makes my faith stronger, right,

663
00:35:09.599 --> 00:35:12.280
and it whether it changes my mind and I grow,

664
00:35:12.519 --> 00:35:14.239
or it reaffirms something.

665
00:35:13.920 --> 00:35:15.400
That I think I believe.

666
00:35:15.440 --> 00:35:17.559
You know, I had an atheist I was talking to

667
00:35:18.599 --> 00:35:20.159
for a while that I went to high school with,

668
00:35:20.519 --> 00:35:22.639
and he would point out evidence to me and he'd

669
00:35:22.679 --> 00:35:25.719
be like, look, watch this video. This is proof that

670
00:35:25.800 --> 00:35:28.000
God doesn't exist. And I would watch the video and

671
00:35:28.039 --> 00:35:30.000
I would come out of it, and I go, that

672
00:35:30.039 --> 00:35:34.039
absolutely proves the existence of an intelligent designer, like watching

673
00:35:34.079 --> 00:35:34.639
the same.

674
00:35:34.480 --> 00:35:38.599
Video, but that testing is healthy.

675
00:35:38.639 --> 00:35:42.039
And he got to hear why that confirmed my faith

676
00:35:42.079 --> 00:35:44.000
and affirmed my faith, and I got to hear why

677
00:35:44.000 --> 00:35:46.679
he didn't have faith and and you know, so that

678
00:35:46.800 --> 00:35:49.800
discourse is what makes for healthy human society. But when

679
00:35:49.840 --> 00:35:53.079
you remove that, which I think social media has done,

680
00:35:53.119 --> 00:35:56.519
I think I think the news cycle has done. You.

681
00:35:56.760 --> 00:35:58.960
I think the way that our society is built right now,

682
00:36:00.159 --> 00:36:02.559
like no one knows how to have a conversation anymore.

683
00:36:02.920 --> 00:36:06.440
When you remove the ability to have a conversation, it's

684
00:36:07.119 --> 00:36:09.719
we get what we get what we see everywhere right now.

685
00:36:09.960 --> 00:36:13.000
Well, and you talk about, you know, these ulterior motives,

686
00:36:13.159 --> 00:36:16.079
and again I think it goes to, you know, how

687
00:36:16.079 --> 00:36:20.639
do we how do we help society to change what's

688
00:36:20.679 --> 00:36:23.800
going on right now into something more kind, more loving,

689
00:36:23.840 --> 00:36:26.920
more accepting. And I think one of the elements is

690
00:36:27.280 --> 00:36:32.000
this concept of ulterior motives. You know, if if our conversation,

691
00:36:32.719 --> 00:36:36.000
you know, here we are friends, all right or whatever,

692
00:36:36.119 --> 00:36:39.639
and if our conversation is I have that alterior motive

693
00:36:39.639 --> 00:36:42.440
that I'm going to convince you that I'm right, or

694
00:36:42.480 --> 00:36:45.639
you have the same motive versus saying, you know what, here,

695
00:36:45.880 --> 00:36:49.559
here's what I'm discovering. Is I'm curious and as I'm researching,

696
00:36:49.639 --> 00:36:52.000
as I'm doing this, here's some things that I find

697
00:36:52.079 --> 00:36:56.280
just fascinating, not with an intent to convince you, but

698
00:36:56.360 --> 00:37:00.440
with an intent to say, here's just some things. I'm fine.

699
00:37:00.800 --> 00:37:04.079
And I think that as we talk about the conversations

700
00:37:04.079 --> 00:37:07.719
that are going on now, it's it's something that needs

701
00:37:07.800 --> 00:37:10.800
to change internally within each one of us, that we

702
00:37:10.840 --> 00:37:14.599
get rid of that ulterior motive to make me right

703
00:37:14.719 --> 00:37:18.079
and you wrong or me help you to understand much

704
00:37:18.159 --> 00:37:22.559
better what you don't understand too. You know, this is

705
00:37:22.760 --> 00:37:24.920
this is what I think, This is what I've resourched,

706
00:37:24.920 --> 00:37:28.480
this is what I thought, And it becomes a discussion

707
00:37:28.760 --> 00:37:33.239
of respect and ideas that sometimes as you say, well,

708
00:37:33.440 --> 00:37:35.880
you know, that's your idea, and I respect that, but

709
00:37:35.960 --> 00:37:39.199
that's not what I believe or wow, I never thought

710
00:37:39.199 --> 00:37:41.280
about that, and as I researched it a little bit.

711
00:37:41.159 --> 00:37:43.599
Fore, and you know, like and even within that so

712
00:37:43.719 --> 00:37:47.480
like as as an evangelical Christian in the United States,

713
00:37:48.440 --> 00:37:53.440
who you know, you know, if if I believe Jesus

714
00:37:53.480 --> 00:37:55.800
is the only way to Heaven. I probably want people

715
00:37:55.800 --> 00:37:58.599
to believe that, but that doesn't mean my job is

716
00:37:58.639 --> 00:38:00.000
to beat in the death with the Gospel.

717
00:38:01.039 --> 00:38:03.159
My job is healthy discourse, right.

718
00:38:04.360 --> 00:38:05.840
You know, one thing I teach our people all the

719
00:38:05.880 --> 00:38:07.960
time is okay, if we believe in the Holy Spirit,

720
00:38:08.039 --> 00:38:10.440
you're not the Holy Spirit. I'm not the Holy Spirit.

721
00:38:11.000 --> 00:38:15.920
My job is not to convict or convince. My job

722
00:38:16.039 --> 00:38:18.679
is to share the hope that I have, and the

723
00:38:18.719 --> 00:38:21.119
Holy Spirit has to do the work right. And so

724
00:38:21.400 --> 00:38:25.719
I'm incredibly passionate about people coming to faith in Jesus.

725
00:38:26.159 --> 00:38:27.840
Otherwise I wouldn't do what I do for a living.

726
00:38:28.440 --> 00:38:32.400
But I also don't feel you know, it is not

727
00:38:32.559 --> 00:38:36.199
my job to beat anybody into submission to the Gospel.

728
00:38:36.199 --> 00:38:37.320
That's not my goal.

729
00:38:37.559 --> 00:38:39.760
The goal is discourse and for me to continue to

730
00:38:39.800 --> 00:38:43.199
grow even in my understanding of faith. So I would

731
00:38:43.239 --> 00:38:47.880
say even faith systems you know, that are opposed, can

732
00:38:47.880 --> 00:38:49.960
come to the table and have a conversation for the

733
00:38:50.000 --> 00:38:52.000
sake of betterment of humanity and the betterment of the

734
00:38:52.000 --> 00:38:56.079
world and try to understand one another. And that's just healthy,

735
00:38:56.119 --> 00:38:58.159
even if they're trying to convince me and I'm trying

736
00:38:58.159 --> 00:39:00.760
to convince you know what, I mean, and it doesn't,

737
00:39:00.760 --> 00:39:03.920
but it doesn't have to be void of humanity. And

738
00:39:04.000 --> 00:39:07.039
I think that's one of the problems with the way

739
00:39:07.119 --> 00:39:11.199
society is approaching things right now. It's just void of humanity.

740
00:39:11.639 --> 00:39:16.000
You know. Well, and you know you you mentioned I

741
00:39:16.039 --> 00:39:19.960
did not grow up in Thailand. I'm obviously an American, yeah, right,

742
00:39:20.039 --> 00:39:21.800
right right. You know, I've been here in a couple

743
00:39:21.800 --> 00:39:24.199
of years, and I go back and forth. But what

744
00:39:24.360 --> 00:39:27.559
fascinated me when I first got here is I loved

745
00:39:27.599 --> 00:39:29.480
I love photography, so I'd love to go to the

746
00:39:29.480 --> 00:39:32.719
different temples, take pictures and so forth, because they're fascinating.

747
00:39:33.800 --> 00:39:36.719
And I went to one temple that was just beautiful,

748
00:39:36.960 --> 00:39:41.639
and to the side, on the same land was another structure,

749
00:39:41.719 --> 00:39:43.679
and so I asked someone, I said, well, what's that,

750
00:39:44.320 --> 00:39:48.599
and they said, well, that's a Muslim temple. And I thought, wow,

751
00:39:48.679 --> 00:39:52.360
here's a Buddhist temple, here's a Muslim temple. Together, and

752
00:39:52.400 --> 00:39:56.039
they respect each other and allow each other to have

753
00:39:56.159 --> 00:40:00.559
their own faith without any type of negative discord that's

754
00:40:00.599 --> 00:40:05.159
going on. And I find that so fascinating. And yet

755
00:40:05.639 --> 00:40:09.679
we don't experience that quite as much in the United States.

756
00:40:10.360 --> 00:40:12.239
And even in some other countries in India.

757
00:40:12.320 --> 00:40:16.800
You don't see that in India, his Muslim and Hindu

758
00:40:17.159 --> 00:40:22.599
religions are somewhat accepted culturally, but there's if you're a Muslim,

759
00:40:22.639 --> 00:40:26.480
there's a lot of pressure if your Hinduism is like

760
00:40:27.000 --> 00:40:31.599
the norm. And so there's some Muslims who are persecuted.

761
00:40:31.679 --> 00:40:33.880
Certainly the Christians that are there persecuted.

762
00:40:34.960 --> 00:40:35.639
And yeah, so.

763
00:40:35.679 --> 00:40:39.719
It's interesting when you see those like that coexistence. You know,

764
00:40:40.639 --> 00:40:44.679
these are two varied belief systems that probably have a

765
00:40:44.719 --> 00:40:47.920
desire to see the people and the other belief system

766
00:40:47.960 --> 00:40:50.960
come to believe what they believe, but have somehow figured

767
00:40:50.960 --> 00:40:53.639
out a way to have discourse and live side by side.

768
00:40:53.679 --> 00:40:54.519
That's really interesting.

769
00:40:54.960 --> 00:40:58.360
And yet if you get to the initial ancient beliefs

770
00:40:58.360 --> 00:41:00.800
of both of those religions, and I done study on this,

771
00:41:00.920 --> 00:41:04.920
I've compared Christianity and Buddhism and Hinduism and Islam, and

772
00:41:04.960 --> 00:41:08.159
as I get back into that whole area, guess what,

773
00:41:08.840 --> 00:41:14.679
they all have common beliefs of goodness and kindness and love,

774
00:41:15.239 --> 00:41:19.199
and that then has been altered over time and over

775
00:41:19.320 --> 00:41:22.840
history to where now there's a lot of different concepts

776
00:41:22.960 --> 00:41:26.920
so long that it's fascinating to me that ultimately, if

777
00:41:26.920 --> 00:41:30.039
we got to the true meaning, each of them have

778
00:41:30.159 --> 00:41:33.280
a desire to be kind, to love and those type

779
00:41:33.320 --> 00:41:36.920
of things, and in their own way a belief in God.

780
00:41:37.480 --> 00:41:40.320
And they may call him different names and they think

781
00:41:40.400 --> 00:41:45.079
him differently, but the reality is there. So we as

782
00:41:45.119 --> 00:41:47.519
we close, this has been a thank you so much

783
00:41:47.519 --> 00:41:51.760
for being on the show bill, It's been fascinating. What

784
00:41:51.880 --> 00:41:53.880
would be a final message you'd like to share with

785
00:41:53.960 --> 00:41:54.559
the audience.

786
00:41:55.079 --> 00:41:57.480
Oh man, there's so many I'd like to share, but

787
00:41:58.480 --> 00:42:01.039
I would say when it if you are in a

788
00:42:01.079 --> 00:42:04.679
search for faith, really seek out who God is. Don't

789
00:42:04.679 --> 00:42:07.360
go looking for yourself. Don't go looking for answers to

790
00:42:07.400 --> 00:42:11.760
your your own questions to uh, you know, the preferences

791
00:42:11.760 --> 00:42:15.000
that you you want, you know to be true in

792
00:42:15.039 --> 00:42:17.239
your life. Don't look don't don't go looking for a

793
00:42:17.239 --> 00:42:19.800
God that's going to bless your life and your lifestyle.

794
00:42:20.559 --> 00:42:24.320
If you're actually seeking God, look for God, don't look

795
00:42:24.320 --> 00:42:26.280
for your don't look for someone who's going to serve you,

796
00:42:26.320 --> 00:42:27.599
look for someone that you can serve.

797
00:42:27.960 --> 00:42:28.079
Now.

798
00:42:28.239 --> 00:42:31.960
I love it film, Thanks so much. So I've appreciated

799
00:42:32.000 --> 00:42:36.159
this discussion very much and I think it's fantastic. Folks,

800
00:42:36.400 --> 00:42:38.920
I hope you've enjoyed it, and I think for me

801
00:42:39.000 --> 00:42:41.639
one of the main points is let's learn to love,

802
00:42:42.000 --> 00:42:44.760
Let's learn to accept others and realize that they have

803
00:42:44.880 --> 00:42:48.079
their own beliefs. Give them that right. And if you're

804
00:42:48.079 --> 00:42:51.079
going to get into discussions, make it one of curiosity,

805
00:42:51.679 --> 00:42:55.119
not one of I'm right and you're wrong. So anyway,

806
00:42:55.320 --> 00:43:02.239
this is a doctor Doug saying no mistay, a deal too.

807
00:43:03.119 --> 00:43:06.280
Cher continued and year