July 7, 2026

When the Backpack Becomes a Steamer Trunk: Grief, Fatigue, and the Weight We Carry

When the Backpack Becomes a Steamer Trunk: Grief, Fatigue, and the Weight We Carry
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Dr. Doug sits with Laura Sharp-Waites, the Baking Pastor, to explore what emotional and spiritual fatigue really looks like — and why grief may be at the root of more than we realize. A quiet, honest conversation about naming what's heavy, finding gratitude in hard seasons, and taking one small step toward lighter living.

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WEBVTT

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This program is designed to provide general information with regards

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to the subject matters covered. This information is given with

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the understanding that neither the hosts, guests, sponsors, or station

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are engaged in rendering any specific and personal medical, financial,

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legal counseling, professional service, or any advice. You should seek

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the services of competent professionals before applying or trying any

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suggested ideas.

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At the end of the day, it's not about what

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you have or even what you've accomplished. It's about what

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you've done with those accomplishments. It's about who you've lifted up,

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who you've made better. It's about what you've given back.

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Denzel Washington, Welcome to Inspire Vision. Our sole purpose is

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to elevate the lives of others and to inspire you

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to do the same.

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Laura, welcome to the show.

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Thank you Doug for having me.

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Hey, I'm excited about having you. As I mentioned before

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we actually started recording, as I read more about you,

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your bio and the things that you're doing, it resonated

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so well with me. I thought, Wow, I'm just really

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looking forward to this conversation. But before we get started,

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I'd like you to kind of share with the audience

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who you are and what was your journey that brought

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you to this point of doing what you're doing. Well.

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I'm a licensed minister, I'm the voice behind at the

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counter with the baking pastor, and I've authored a book

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in a journal. But all of this really started when

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I had a breast cancer journey and I had to

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learn that life can stop and it's okay, you don't

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have to hold it all together. And the more I

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work through that, I realized I'm not the only one

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who's struggling with that, with burnout, with spiritual mental exhaustion,

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and so I realized that as I was getting my

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degree in pastoral counseling, that I really wanted to hope

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folks who were navigating what I was navigating.

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So that's how it all came together.

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And as you talk about spiritual you'll find I love

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to define works because for everybody a word might mean

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something different. So for the audience to find what you

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mean by spiritual journey.

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My case, I'm a Christian, and so spiritual journey for

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me is leaning into God, leaning into the Bible. But

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for others it could be the higher power of the universe,

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whatever is their comfort zone. So I do come from

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a Christian lens, but I do realize not everybody does.

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Yeah, and I think that's important. I do also, by

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the way, but I think that's important for everybody that's

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listening that you know, there's no focus on just quote

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Christianity when we talk about spiritual it applies to everybody,

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regardless of what their inclinations are believes because but I

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think the one point that I think is so important,

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and I've kind of started to focus on this a

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little bit with my other social media project, is that

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truly within each one of us is that divine spark.

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And I think that even for people who haven't really

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thought about it from that perspective, understanding that within themselves

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is that goodness that nobody or oftentimes many people don't

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recognize lies within them.

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I agree.

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I agree, there's a lot of things inside us that

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if we would lean into and tap into, we could

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have more answers and more comfort and be able to

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work on some of our own our own baggage.

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So your main focus now is what just for working

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with people who are struggling with burnout and those type.

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Of things, kind of a combination. I like to work

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with folks who are just struggling in general. Burnouts usually

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one of them. Maybe they're physically mentally exhausted, maybe they've

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been to a bad season.

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Often it's it's a loss.

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But when I say that, people go, well, no one died,

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But I do a lot of work with grief, and

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so grief is not just death. It's forty plus other things.

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And so when I say you know loss, they say, oh, well,

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no one died.

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And I said, but have you changed?

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Have you had any change lately, because any change may

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or may not need to be grieved, And they say, oh,

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I broke up with my person, I change jobs, my

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child moved from elementary to middle school. So any change

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it is a loss that you may need to grieve.

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And so when they start realizing that they probably are

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grieving something and we can work on that, then things

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start to feel lighter and freer. They feel like layers

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come off them. And it's just it's unique because everybody,

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like I said, everybody always goes to oh it's death.

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But it's not just death.

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But we can have so much heavy baggage wrapped around

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the grief and the guilt and the shame that we

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feel because you know, we're carrying all that package.

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Yeah, And you know what's interesting is and I love

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how you talk about the fact that you know, sometimes

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we don't even know that we're experiencing that there's just

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something that seems to be missing. And I know that

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you talk a little bit about what emotional and spiritual

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fatigue looks like. Share with the audience your experience about

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people who are really experiencing that emotional that spiritual fatigue

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and what does that look like in their life and

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how do they suddenly become aware that while this is

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what's going on, they're getting some clarity so that they

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can then start looking deeper within themselves.

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Emotional usually comes first.

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There's things that start happening in the world, in their

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daily life, and it just feels like there's this snowball

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rolling down this huge mountain and collects every emotion that

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they could possibly come up with. Shame because they didn't

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make the cupcakes for their kids' lunch that they needed

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to have special, or they missed a meeting or a deadline,

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and all these things start compiling, and when they do,

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they just feel so exhausted. Then they try and reach

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out for their spiritual side, and they often find that

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it's either missing or lacking or they don't feel connected,

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and so then they feel bad about that, and so

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it just continues to be this huge baggage. In some cases,

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it goes from being like someone's backpack to a steamer

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trunk to maybe a full blown cruise ship. I mean

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that just feels what they're lugging around, and they don't

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know what it is. They just know they wake up tired,

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they go to bed tired, They're tired all day every day,

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and it just feels like everything just adds on. And

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so when they finally stop and say something's not right,

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I don't know what it is. And I get referred

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to them, and they meet with me and we'll start

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unpacking some of the layers and give them a chance

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to pause and look at what's going on. They're usually

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surprised at all the stuff they're lugging around and then

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confused on how to deal with it, because you've got

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a whole steamer trunk of stuff?

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What do you do with it?

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Well, and as we talk about spiritual fatigue, and again,

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if we really look at that and depth, for me,

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I look at that there's not that communication. There's not

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that sense of internal sense of goodness and love and

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whatever and peace, really feeling that sense of peace and

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enjoy in our lives. And yet on a daily basis,

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we're experience we're not experiencing that, And so that's where

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I see that spiritual gap and fatigue really comes into play.

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And gratitude, I mean, take time every day for the

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little things.

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As I walk to get my mail.

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We live in the country and I'll notice a butterfly

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or a flower coming up, a tree, a cloud, and

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I stop and pause, and you know, I'm grateful that

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we have a light wind in today, or that we

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have the sun today. I'm grateful for the flowers because

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that means there's crops growing and we'll have food. I'm

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grateful for the truckers who bring the food to us.

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So I kind of take it all the way back.

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But the little bits of gratitude can go a really

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long way.

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Oh that's so true. And you know, as people are

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listening to this, and obviously they're just starting to listen,

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but as they listen and they're thinking to themselves, you

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know what I am feeling that fatigue, that emotional fatigue,

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that spiritual fatigue that I'm not really experience in what

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I know I really desire to experience. What becomes the

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next step for them? If they can ultimately just realize

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that while I'm feeling that, then what's my next step?

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What do you suggest to people their next step is?

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I suggest they go get an actual physical journal, paper

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and pen or favorite writing and you take a few

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moments and I call it a brain dump. Whatever is

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rattling around in your brain, just get it out on paper.

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People like, oh, I'll just type in my phone.

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No, no, no, you need that connection from your brain

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down your arm to your hand writing. It doesn't have

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to look pretty on the page. It doesn't have to

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be orderly or bullet pointed. Just like, throw up on

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the page and get it all out there. And then

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once you see it, you have a little more clarity

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because it's not all running around in your head. And

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then you can just pick one one of those topics

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and lean into that. What are you feeling with that topic?

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Is it serving you?

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Is it a burden? Is it something you want to

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continue with? Is it something you really have no desire

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to do anymore? Or no season that it doesn't make

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sense to still have, and then as you work on

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that one thing, you'll notice a little lightness, and then

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when you're ready, you can come back and look at

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the second thing, and if more things start messing around

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in your head, add them to the big list. You're

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not carrying them around. I love people to do it,

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especially at night before they go to bed, because if

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they don't, their brain like going one hundred miles an

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hour and they're not able to sleep, and then of

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course they're already tired, so they're needing the rest.

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But if you can get it.

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All out, and then in the morning, after you've rested,

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come back and look at that journal, what's going on?

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And pause with it? You know, am I really?

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Am?

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I tired?

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I'm tired, But what's behind it? Is it I'm overworked,

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I'm overwhelmed.

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Whatever's going on?

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Well, And for those of us that do not like

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to sit down and write, my handwriting sucks, and so

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I'm not really journal. But here's one thing I've learned

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to do, which I'll love to get your opinion on.

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For those that may not choose the journal, and this

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may be even more difficult, but what I love to

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do is to actually just get on to my phone

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or onto my computer whenever, and actually dictate and just

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talk talk about what I'm feeling, talk about my experience,

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and record that and then listen back to that recording

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and go okay, because I find that if I verbalize

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what I'm experiencing or what I'm feeling, oftentimes that is

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for me as powerful as writing it down and trying

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to read it.

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I like that idea, but I realized that there are

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people who are going to be challenged at hearing themselves.

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Number one, hearing themselves talk on a recording, but hearing

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back and the fear that maybe somebody else will hear

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what they're saying, but then not being able to see

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the whole picture. That's really why I like it written down.

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And it doesn't matter if it's in chicken scratch, if

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it's misspelled, if whatever, as long as you can tell

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what's there. But that reflection back is really really important,

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because if you do a recording, then the only challenge

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is you know you're going to have to go back

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and listen to it.

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Okay, do I want to work on this? Okay, go forward.

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Do I want to work on this, but maybe a

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little more challenging to do that, but being able to

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reflect is huge and say it, because if you can't

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see it so that you can name it and then

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be able to claim it and work on it, then

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you're going to have challenges. I was working with someone

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yesterday who said, why can I not sleep? Why do

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I not feel safe? And I said, because you've been

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doing some work of your abuse, and that abuse is

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making you feel unsafe again and it's taking you back.

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I said, so what we need to do to make

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your bedroom safe? And so we came up with a plan.

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Because the brain does some really weird, amazing things, but

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sometimes it does things that kind of throw us off

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our balance well.

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And so have you found as you work with a

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number of people that there's some commonality in some of

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the issues that they're facing. You know, for instance, you

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know you're talking about abuse, and that obviously is a

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major one. Have you found that there are other common

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issues that people seem to really deal with that are

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causing that discomfort and that fatigue.

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What I found with working with a number of folks

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through trauma and abuse is that they go through and

248
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get all the counseling for that, but they're still not

249
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over it because they haven't done the grief work. Probably

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ninety five percent of the trauma and abuse people who

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come to me have never grieved that they lost their

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childhood or their sense of their body, or the freedom

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to make their own choices, the change that that particular

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incident made in their life. And when they sit down

255
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and realize all the things that that caused or caused

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them not to be able to do and start working

257
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on it, then it's like, so you know again, it's

258
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getting back to that root cause of what's going on. Yes,

259
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you can work on some of the surface stuff, but

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a lot of trauma abuse is rooted in grief. A

261
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lot of folks who've been through who were children of

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divorces that didn't go well, the same thing. They grieve

263
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the childhood that they missed, or they saw their friends

264
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doing things, or maybe they had a parent who was

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ill and they had to help with the other children,

266
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so they didn't get to be the normal child out

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playing and having friends and sleepovers and all that. They

268
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really had to become an adult, and oftentimes they really regret,

269
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and I'm like, well, then go out and just have fun,

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go do something childlike, there's nothing wrong with that.

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Well, and as you talk about grief, and you know,

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as you were talking, I was thinking about myself as

273
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I was growing up. My dad was extremely successful as

274
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a college professor, a local teacher, but he was so

275
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focused on that that there's a lot of things my

276
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friends were doing that I wasn't able to do. And

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you know, that just came up in my mind as

278
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you were talking, and then I think, how would I

279
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grieve that? So, as you talk about grief, as people

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are listening to us, what is number one? We know

281
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what grief is, you're feeling bad, whatever that happens to be.

282
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But how does someone actually work through grief consciously to

283
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where they can start to put that a little bit

284
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away so it's not affecting them.

285
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Well, I use a program to help them with that,

286
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But if they're not using that particular program, suggestions would

287
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be name what it is.

288
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So if you were talking about your childhood.

289
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And you realize that there were things you missed out

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maybe not doing with your dad father son thinks you know,

291
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obviously you can't go always and recreate those especially if

292
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that person is no longer with us, But can you

293
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be okay? Can you acknowledge what was really missed? Now

294
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that you're alerted to it, can you go back and

295
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spend some time and think through what was it I

296
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actually missed and how did that really impact me? You know,

297
00:15:50.919 --> 00:15:53.919
if dad had taken me fishing, you know what, I've

298
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become a really good fisherman and had a great hobby.

299
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Or if we had done road trips together, what I've

300
00:16:00.039 --> 00:16:03.519
you know, learn more places to go? What would that

301
00:16:03.759 --> 00:16:07.320
experience maybe have taught you that you didn't necessarily get

302
00:16:07.840 --> 00:16:10.399
And then after you again, name it, you know you

303
00:16:10.440 --> 00:16:13.519
can own it, claim it and say, Okay, I didn't

304
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I didn't get to do that like my friends did.

305
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And am I okay with that?

306
00:16:18.320 --> 00:16:20.799
And if you can be okay with that you my

307
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suggestion would be to dictate. In your case, I would

308
00:16:24.200 --> 00:16:27.879
normally suggest writing, but write a letter. Dictate a letter

309
00:16:27.919 --> 00:16:32.639
to your dad and to say, hey, I've been I've

310
00:16:32.679 --> 00:16:36.399
just been reviewing our relationship and what I realized is

311
00:16:36.840 --> 00:16:41.279
we never got to do And you know, I apologize

312
00:16:41.519 --> 00:16:44.440
if there's anything I need to apologize for. I forgive

313
00:16:44.480 --> 00:16:47.320
you for working. Yes, I know you were working and

314
00:16:47.360 --> 00:16:48.919
that was your job and you were providing for us

315
00:16:49.000 --> 00:16:51.919
and that's great, but I forgive you for not being

316
00:16:51.919 --> 00:16:52.679
there to take me.

317
00:16:52.600 --> 00:16:55.600
Fishing or on that road trip or more father son.

318
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Time, and explain maybe I saw my friends doing all

319
00:16:59.759 --> 00:17:02.320
these cool things with their dads and that really that

320
00:17:02.399 --> 00:17:05.279
really hurt me, and I didn't realize it at the time,

321
00:17:05.359 --> 00:17:07.920
but looking back, it really hurt me. And then when

322
00:17:07.960 --> 00:17:10.519
you're done, just sign the letter, you know, love Doug

323
00:17:10.640 --> 00:17:13.400
until next time. And I call it a PS letter.

324
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So if you're if things come up, because once you

325
00:17:15.680 --> 00:17:18.680
start rattling that cage, there's gonna be more that comes up,

326
00:17:19.480 --> 00:17:22.200
make a couple notes in your phone or on your

327
00:17:22.279 --> 00:17:25.720
journal of the different topics that pop up that you

328
00:17:25.759 --> 00:17:28.480
may still need to address in a PS letter. So

329
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instead of like you've written your letter and then a

330
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PS at the end, be like, hey dad, you know,

331
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I've been really thinking this through and there's a couple

332
00:17:34.200 --> 00:17:34.720
more things that.

333
00:17:34.680 --> 00:17:38.000
Are still kind of nagged at me. And then verbalize

334
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that and.

335
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So and I do. I do love. In fact, I

336
00:17:41.319 --> 00:17:43.559
encourage people to write in their journal too, so don't

337
00:17:43.559 --> 00:17:47.920
misunderstand me. But but as people do that, now, when

338
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I I'm writing a letter to my dad, my dad's

339
00:17:50.799 --> 00:17:54.440
not here anymore, so that's That's what I wanted to

340
00:17:54.480 --> 00:17:56.720
point out is that really what you're talking is you're

341
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writing a letter to someone. You may never send that

342
00:17:59.240 --> 00:18:02.559
letter to, but the key is is that you're writing it,

343
00:18:03.000 --> 00:18:05.920
and you're to write gaining that clarity.

344
00:18:06.480 --> 00:18:08.559
Ideally, you need to write it and you need to

345
00:18:08.599 --> 00:18:11.880
read it to someone. Now, if that person's no longer here,

346
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find a trusted person that you can read it to

347
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who will be judgment free and just be there to listen.

348
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They don't have to comment, they don't have to acknowledge,

349
00:18:21.319 --> 00:18:23.960
they just need to hear it. And that act of

350
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verbalizing it out into the universe is really powerful. It's

351
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being able to just okay, I'm done with that.

352
00:18:32.359 --> 00:18:34.440
Yeah, well you and you mentioned something. I'm sorry, it

353
00:18:34.480 --> 00:18:37.920
didn't mean to interrupt there. You mentioned something about you

354
00:18:37.960 --> 00:18:41.519
have your own methodology to help people work through grief.

355
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Is that something in your book? Is it something that

356
00:18:45.160 --> 00:18:48.359
people can read outside of your book if it's not there,

357
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or is that a proprietary methodology that belongs to you.

358
00:18:54.079 --> 00:18:56.480
It's a methodology I was trained in. It's called the

359
00:18:56.559 --> 00:19:00.720
Grief Recovery Method, and so I really really enjoy it.

360
00:19:00.720 --> 00:19:06.279
It is an eight week program and so it has

361
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been studied at the university level. It absolutely works on

362
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pretty much any type of grief. The program says from

363
00:19:14.680 --> 00:19:18.519
moving beyond death, divorce, and other losses including health, career

364
00:19:18.559 --> 00:19:22.880
and faith. So I actually went to take that program

365
00:19:23.240 --> 00:19:26.519
because I was grieving the loss of being able.

366
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To have children after cancer.

367
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Part of my cancer, I ended up with ovarian cancer

368
00:19:30.839 --> 00:19:32.680
as well, and so they removed my ovaries.

369
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And at that point my husband and I had only.

370
00:19:34.920 --> 00:19:36.839
Been married a year and a half and we were

371
00:19:36.880 --> 00:19:40.519
trying for kids, and when they said we don't have

372
00:19:40.599 --> 00:19:43.799
time to move all the stuff around to make it possible,

373
00:19:43.880 --> 00:19:47.279
it was really that hit hard. I knew I was

374
00:19:47.279 --> 00:19:51.039
having reconstruction surgery. So some people do grieve the loss

375
00:19:51.039 --> 00:19:55.960
of body parts that it's their identity. That wasn't the case,

376
00:19:56.119 --> 00:19:58.240
but in my case, I was just grieving I wasn't

377
00:19:58.240 --> 00:20:01.359
going to be a natural biological parent. And of course

378
00:20:01.440 --> 00:20:04.160
I heard all the stories, Oh, you can adopt, or

379
00:20:04.519 --> 00:20:06.160
you could do this, or you could do that. Well,

380
00:20:06.240 --> 00:20:09.519
yes I could, but you're negating the fact that I

381
00:20:09.559 --> 00:20:12.160
can't do it myself. And so I went to the

382
00:20:12.160 --> 00:20:14.920
program originally for that and then they're like, well, before

383
00:20:14.920 --> 00:20:17.079
you can work on a health challenge, you need to

384
00:20:17.119 --> 00:20:19.880
work on a person, a relate, a real relationship that

385
00:20:20.519 --> 00:20:22.240
either is or has happened.

386
00:20:22.640 --> 00:20:24.039
So I worked on it.

387
00:20:23.799 --> 00:20:27.279
And was like, oh wow, yes, I was finally able

388
00:20:27.319 --> 00:20:30.319
to go back and work on that other one. But

389
00:20:30.480 --> 00:20:35.319
since it's been really really fun to see just how

390
00:20:35.400 --> 00:20:37.400
much junk is tied up in that.

391
00:20:38.160 --> 00:20:41.000
So it's called a grief recovery program.

392
00:20:40.559 --> 00:20:42.720
Grief recovery method, yees method.

393
00:20:42.799 --> 00:20:46.920
Okay, well that's great. You know what I find interesting.

394
00:20:47.000 --> 00:20:49.759
I was reading an article the other day from Substack

395
00:20:49.960 --> 00:20:54.440
and they were talking about the various and I've interviewed

396
00:20:54.480 --> 00:20:56.400
so many people and all these topics, but you know,

397
00:20:56.559 --> 00:21:01.160
they're breathing, the meditation, the EFT, whatever that happens to be,

398
00:21:01.240 --> 00:21:05.960
trying to eliminate some of this subconscious imprinting that is

399
00:21:06.200 --> 00:21:10.200
really affecting our lives. And the point of it was,

400
00:21:10.400 --> 00:21:14.440
you know what, it's not one is not the only solution.

401
00:21:14.640 --> 00:21:16.960
In other words, you know, if you're meditating, it's not

402
00:21:17.000 --> 00:21:19.160
the only solution. If you're deep breathing, that's not the

403
00:21:19.200 --> 00:21:23.400
only solution. If you're doing EFT or NLP or whatever

404
00:21:23.440 --> 00:21:27.240
it happens to be, it's not the only solution. But

405
00:21:27.480 --> 00:21:29.680
I love the fact that you're getting down into the

406
00:21:29.799 --> 00:21:33.880
root cause of the fact that probably at the very

407
00:21:33.880 --> 00:21:38.039
basic level of grief is one of the major foundations

408
00:21:38.640 --> 00:21:42.319
or the challenges that we are experiencing. And even for

409
00:21:42.400 --> 00:21:45.960
the imprints that are experiencing in their lives.

410
00:21:46.240 --> 00:21:49.640
I love that you mentioned the imprints. So, for example,

411
00:21:50.480 --> 00:21:54.720
there's a book called Feelings Buried Alive, Never Die by

412
00:21:54.839 --> 00:21:55.640
Carol with A. K.

413
00:21:55.880 --> 00:21:56.319
Truman.

414
00:21:56.960 --> 00:22:01.480
And I'll have people who are strong ruggling with things

415
00:22:01.559 --> 00:22:04.599
like anger, and we'll go and we'll look, and that

416
00:22:04.680 --> 00:22:08.720
impacts your your stomach or your small intestines, your colon area,

417
00:22:09.240 --> 00:22:13.519
and oftentimes when we are able to name the emotions,

418
00:22:14.759 --> 00:22:17.039
they're buried deep inside of us, like you said in printing.

419
00:22:17.160 --> 00:22:20.039
And so anyway, Carol has some scripts where you can

420
00:22:20.680 --> 00:22:25.160
ask your subconscious, super conscious higher power to find the

421
00:22:25.240 --> 00:22:29.200
root cause of the anger or whatever emotion you pick,

422
00:22:29.359 --> 00:22:32.240
and to help release it, and to put that script

423
00:22:32.240 --> 00:22:35.240
in your body on repeat for the next and it's

424
00:22:35.240 --> 00:22:38.079
an odd the next one hundred and eighty days or

425
00:22:38.160 --> 00:22:42.119
until it's resolved. But most people when they come and

426
00:22:42.759 --> 00:22:47.279
I feel perplexed what's going on, I'll ask their emotions

427
00:22:47.359 --> 00:22:49.079
and I'll look them up and say, are you dealing

428
00:22:49.160 --> 00:22:50.279
with any health issues?

429
00:22:50.319 --> 00:22:52.799
By chance? And usually it's like, how did you know?

430
00:22:53.519 --> 00:22:57.279
Because your feelings are inside yourselves and they're going to

431
00:22:57.279 --> 00:22:59.359
be their cause and all kinds of issues underlying.

432
00:23:00.160 --> 00:23:03.480
Yeah. Absolutely, And and so you know, one of the

433
00:23:03.519 --> 00:23:05.559
things I know you also talk about, and I think

434
00:23:05.759 --> 00:23:09.440
this is something that I've really noticed. So often we

435
00:23:09.640 --> 00:23:13.279
focus and there's so much out there now about personal

436
00:23:13.319 --> 00:23:17.880
transformation and all of that, and there's so much focus

437
00:23:17.960 --> 00:23:23.079
on that, and so often as individuals that becomes our focus.

438
00:23:23.119 --> 00:23:26.240
I've got to really transform myself. I've got to do this,

439
00:23:26.279 --> 00:23:28.359
I've got to be able to feel better and so forth.

440
00:23:28.720 --> 00:23:30.920
But the thought comes to my mind and the quote,

441
00:23:30.920 --> 00:23:34.559
and I've used this for years, that which we resist persists,

442
00:23:35.119 --> 00:23:38.359
and so how do you help people to move away

443
00:23:38.440 --> 00:23:43.119
from that as being the main focus to where they

444
00:23:43.240 --> 00:23:47.240
quietly work with that in a way that rather than

445
00:23:47.240 --> 00:23:51.960
it continuing to persist, they really start to eliminate some

446
00:23:52.079 --> 00:23:55.559
of those issues because they haven't made that their main

447
00:23:55.599 --> 00:23:57.599
focus or has that been your experience?

448
00:23:58.200 --> 00:24:00.200
Actually it has been my experience. But I I think

449
00:24:00.240 --> 00:24:04.200
about where we are culturally. You know, they go to TikTok.

450
00:24:04.240 --> 00:24:06.440
They got a thirty second clip. They can't wait two

451
00:24:06.480 --> 00:24:10.200
and a half minutes for microwave popcorn. Every sitcom or

452
00:24:10.200 --> 00:24:13.119
whatever's on TV, it wraps up commercials and off from

453
00:24:13.200 --> 00:24:16.519
opening to problem to solution in thirty minutes. We are

454
00:24:17.240 --> 00:24:22.240
been trained that solutions need to happen fast, but in reality,

455
00:24:22.359 --> 00:24:26.119
whatever's going on with us didn't happen overnight, and so

456
00:24:26.240 --> 00:24:30.480
it's not going to resolve overnight. So they'll come and say, well,

457
00:24:30.480 --> 00:24:32.880
I've tried all these things and it hasn't worked. Okay,

458
00:24:32.920 --> 00:24:36.759
so try mine. Try not pushing, not prodding, not trying

459
00:24:37.119 --> 00:24:41.039
to fit into that framework or that system. Try just

460
00:24:41.200 --> 00:24:46.039
giving yourself space to think, space to slow down, and

461
00:24:46.279 --> 00:24:49.720
space to pause and just allow what's going on to

462
00:24:50.240 --> 00:24:53.559
be felt and to you know, the most important thing,

463
00:24:53.759 --> 00:24:56.440
I say, rattle that backpack that you're carrying around. See

464
00:24:56.440 --> 00:24:57.200
what pops up.

465
00:24:57.519 --> 00:25:00.119
That's probably what you need to work on first. And

466
00:25:00.160 --> 00:25:01.680
if they will stop, looks great.

467
00:25:02.039 --> 00:25:04.039
Yeah. And as you talk about the culture part of it,

468
00:25:04.079 --> 00:25:07.880
I had a real epiphany the other day. I love

469
00:25:07.920 --> 00:25:13.119
to listen to particular Christian music Gaither Vocal. I don't

470
00:25:13.160 --> 00:25:14.640
know if you've ever heard of him, but you know,

471
00:25:14.720 --> 00:25:17.400
I love to hear that. And then I also grew up.

472
00:25:17.440 --> 00:25:20.039
My dad, like I say, was a classical voice teacher

473
00:25:20.039 --> 00:25:24.039
at the university levels, so I learned to appreciate classical music.

474
00:25:24.160 --> 00:25:27.440
And as I was listening one day while I was driving,

475
00:25:27.960 --> 00:25:31.920
it hit me that all that music, whether it's classical

476
00:25:32.400 --> 00:25:36.359
or whether otherwise, most of the time it starts out

477
00:25:36.680 --> 00:25:41.440
gentle and slow and working, and at the very end

478
00:25:41.680 --> 00:25:45.880
it's high pitched and it's really loud. And you think

479
00:25:45.920 --> 00:25:49.319
about that, and it's like, we literally have grown up

480
00:25:49.359 --> 00:25:54.440
in this culture that we start slow, but our ultimate expectation,

481
00:25:54.759 --> 00:25:57.480
whether it's movies or whatever it happens to be your music,

482
00:25:58.039 --> 00:26:02.839
is this finalized that is just so terrific. And I

483
00:26:02.839 --> 00:26:05.559
think that's what we've kind of created an expectation in

484
00:26:05.559 --> 00:26:07.559
our life to be like that.

485
00:26:07.839 --> 00:26:11.319
And I think too, because I deal a lot with women, primarily,

486
00:26:11.559 --> 00:26:13.920
and they'll come and they maybe had a divorce, or

487
00:26:14.440 --> 00:26:18.200
maybe they haven't found their their shining night, and they

488
00:26:18.240 --> 00:26:21.160
don't have the house with the picket fence and the

489
00:26:21.200 --> 00:26:23.559
two kids and the dog and the cat, and they're

490
00:26:23.599 --> 00:26:26.720
realizing that was a dream, that was a dream that

491
00:26:27.640 --> 00:26:30.640
is not going to come true, Holy moly, what am

492
00:26:30.680 --> 00:26:33.160
I going to do with that? And again that's another

493
00:26:33.200 --> 00:26:35.519
one of those lost things. But then you know what,

494
00:26:35.599 --> 00:26:38.279
everybody else is here and I'm only here. Okay, that's fine.

495
00:26:38.319 --> 00:26:42.039
Everybody else is on their own trajectory. But are you okay?

496
00:26:42.119 --> 00:26:44.319
Do you like where you are? And if you don't,

497
00:26:44.720 --> 00:26:47.480
what baby steps can you take to get where you

498
00:26:47.519 --> 00:26:49.640
want to go? Because everybody's like, oh, I've got to

499
00:26:49.720 --> 00:26:51.440
do all these things. Well, if you're try and do all.

500
00:26:51.359 --> 00:26:53.799
Those things, you're going to be burned out. Again, that's

501
00:26:53.839 --> 00:26:55.920
not helpful. Pick one, just one?

502
00:26:56.359 --> 00:26:58.319
Well, and I love where you say that. I used

503
00:26:58.319 --> 00:27:02.279
to work with small businesses bit and one of the

504
00:27:02.319 --> 00:27:06.119
things that I talked to them about that ultimately really

505
00:27:06.160 --> 00:27:08.880
came into reality with working with people too, was this

506
00:27:09.000 --> 00:27:12.920
concept of what is that dream where do you want

507
00:27:12.960 --> 00:27:15.880
to be in business, in life or whatever? And if

508
00:27:15.920 --> 00:27:19.640
that's your ideal, what would be just previous to that,

509
00:27:19.880 --> 00:27:22.319
the thing that would have to change in your life

510
00:27:22.400 --> 00:27:25.240
or in your business? Well, I need I would I

511
00:27:25.240 --> 00:27:27.680
would need to be able to do that, okay, And

512
00:27:27.720 --> 00:27:30.519
in order to be able to do that, what would

513
00:27:30.559 --> 00:27:33.119
be the thing just before that that would need to change?

514
00:27:33.519 --> 00:27:37.480
And as you slowly start to work backwards, you finally

515
00:27:37.480 --> 00:27:42.440
get to that airbones basic. All right, this is the

516
00:27:42.480 --> 00:27:44.720
first step that I need to take. And I think

517
00:27:44.759 --> 00:27:49.720
so often people jump ahead of themselves because they're so impatient,

518
00:27:50.200 --> 00:27:52.880
and yet the reality is is get back to that

519
00:27:53.000 --> 00:27:55.559
first step. And I loved what you said, and I

520
00:27:55.599 --> 00:27:57.319
want you to talk about it a little bit more.

521
00:27:57.960 --> 00:28:02.359
This concept of grief, but this concept of gratitude. And

522
00:28:02.440 --> 00:28:06.000
I think so often and this isn't in all experiences,

523
00:28:06.079 --> 00:28:08.400
So I want to make sure I say that ahead

524
00:28:08.440 --> 00:28:12.400
of time. But many times, you know, when I look at,

525
00:28:12.720 --> 00:28:15.599
for instance, when I look at my experience with my dad,

526
00:28:16.000 --> 00:28:18.759
now want you to talk to any of my sons

527
00:28:19.240 --> 00:28:21.640
and guess what they're going to tell you. Wow, Dad,

528
00:28:22.200 --> 00:28:24.599
it was so amazing. You were there, You taught us

529
00:28:24.640 --> 00:28:26.680
to fish, you were at all of our sports games,

530
00:28:26.720 --> 00:28:29.880
you did all this. I can't tell you how much

531
00:28:29.880 --> 00:28:32.279
I appreciate that. And they've literally said that to me

532
00:28:32.359 --> 00:28:37.200
multiple times, and I think, wow, you know, if I

533
00:28:37.279 --> 00:28:41.519
have the gratitude that because of that experience in my childhood,

534
00:28:42.000 --> 00:28:46.079
I changed the entire experience for my children in their childhood,

535
00:28:46.480 --> 00:28:48.920
and I can be grateful for that talk a little

536
00:28:48.960 --> 00:28:52.960
bit about how important gratitude is even looking at some

537
00:28:53.039 --> 00:28:56.359
of these experiences that we would term negative in our

538
00:28:56.400 --> 00:29:00.440
early lives, and how we can see that with gratitude, dude,

539
00:29:01.000 --> 00:29:03.599
we really can change that whole dimension.

540
00:29:04.079 --> 00:29:07.200
So when I first was diagnosed with cancer, that was

541
00:29:07.200 --> 00:29:10.279
a shock for me, but probably a month into a

542
00:29:10.559 --> 00:29:15.480
eighteen month journey, I started feeling grateful for having it,

543
00:29:15.599 --> 00:29:19.240
feeling blessed, and I can now say I was truly

544
00:29:19.279 --> 00:29:22.920
blessed to have cancer. Obviously, No, it wasn't easy. There

545
00:29:23.000 --> 00:29:25.599
was a ton of surgeries and treatments and whatnot. But

546
00:29:25.640 --> 00:29:28.039
the people I got to meet, the people who prayed

547
00:29:28.079 --> 00:29:31.599
over me, I got to pray over, and the people

548
00:29:31.640 --> 00:29:34.519
I've connected with since I know I would not have

549
00:29:34.640 --> 00:29:39.200
met had I not had that situation. And it's tough

550
00:29:39.279 --> 00:29:43.599
to be in a bad place, you know, a death,

551
00:29:43.960 --> 00:29:48.759
a financial situation, a divorce, and to feel grateful. But

552
00:29:48.880 --> 00:29:50.519
if you're you know, if I look at it, if

553
00:29:50.519 --> 00:29:53.640
you're getting a divorce, there's a reason, and you should

554
00:29:53.680 --> 00:29:55.480
be blessed that you found that reason and you're not

555
00:29:55.519 --> 00:29:59.519
going to continue to suffer in that relationship. If you've

556
00:29:59.519 --> 00:30:01.599
got a hell challenge, Yes, you may have had a

557
00:30:01.640 --> 00:30:04.640
health challenge, but you're getting healed, you're getting surgery, you're

558
00:30:04.680 --> 00:30:08.319
getting treatment, you're getting a clear bill of health, and

559
00:30:08.359 --> 00:30:11.079
so that's a blessing. But I think we're so tied

560
00:30:11.160 --> 00:30:15.440
up in the issue and being done to us that

561
00:30:15.640 --> 00:30:19.960
it's really hard because our society is all about performance

562
00:30:20.599 --> 00:30:23.440
and less about presence. And when you take a step

563
00:30:23.440 --> 00:30:25.079
back and say, wow, okay.

564
00:30:24.839 --> 00:30:26.359
I'm present in this, I have this.

565
00:30:27.119 --> 00:30:29.559
People are sending me cards, people are praying for me,

566
00:30:29.759 --> 00:30:33.599
people are really you know, thinking happy thoughts. I'm getting

567
00:30:33.599 --> 00:30:36.640
through this because other people are thinking about me and

568
00:30:36.720 --> 00:30:40.400
encouraging me. And so you can take something as horrible

569
00:30:40.400 --> 00:30:43.680
as having cancer and be blessed with it, but you

570
00:30:43.759 --> 00:30:45.680
have to allow yourself to be open to that.

571
00:30:46.319 --> 00:30:50.160
Well, there's so much pressure out there too, to be perfect,

572
00:30:50.960 --> 00:30:53.480
to be successful, to do all of those things. And

573
00:30:54.000 --> 00:30:58.640
you know, being a pastor, here's my question to you.

574
00:30:59.240 --> 00:31:04.079
How often does and it's true of any religion, how

575
00:31:04.160 --> 00:31:08.599
often does that concept of being perfect and obviously, as

576
00:31:08.759 --> 00:31:11.559
Christian you have that quote from the New Testament be

577
00:31:11.839 --> 00:31:16.920
therefore perfect. How much does that create those imprints in

578
00:31:16.960 --> 00:31:20.039
our lives where we never feel good, we're not good

579
00:31:20.119 --> 00:31:23.000
enough because we're trying to be perfect, which, incidentally, if

580
00:31:23.000 --> 00:31:25.599
you get to the word is an entirely different meaning.

581
00:31:26.640 --> 00:31:29.279
And you know people always come to me, oh, I

582
00:31:29.319 --> 00:31:32.079
have to be perfect. Well, Typically the people who are

583
00:31:32.119 --> 00:31:36.680
striving with perfection are trying to overcome and compensate for

584
00:31:36.880 --> 00:31:40.720
something that has gone wrong in their life. Specifically, a

585
00:31:40.720 --> 00:31:43.079
lot of folks who've been through trauma and abuse are

586
00:31:43.119 --> 00:31:47.440
trying to control their life. Thus the perfectionism. If I

587
00:31:47.519 --> 00:31:49.960
control it and do it perfect, I won't have that

588
00:31:50.000 --> 00:31:53.240
bad outcome again. Then they come back and they'll say,

589
00:31:53.279 --> 00:31:54.920
but you know, I've read the Bible, and the Bible

590
00:31:54.920 --> 00:31:58.599
says there's only one perfect person, and it was Jesus exactly.

591
00:31:58.759 --> 00:32:00.920
So if we can never live up to that standard,

592
00:32:01.400 --> 00:32:04.400
why are you on that treadmill forcing yourself to try

593
00:32:04.440 --> 00:32:05.039
and get there?

594
00:32:05.559 --> 00:32:06.960
You know, it's a never ending battle.

595
00:32:06.960 --> 00:32:08.759
It's not going to happen, and that's going to lead

596
00:32:08.799 --> 00:32:11.400
to the burnout and the stress and all the other

597
00:32:11.440 --> 00:32:16.400
health issues that you really don't need. But it's all everybody,

598
00:32:16.759 --> 00:32:19.920
not everybody. A good portion of people strive to be perfect.

599
00:32:19.920 --> 00:32:21.079
Some people are just content.

600
00:32:21.160 --> 00:32:21.279
You know.

601
00:32:21.319 --> 00:32:22.839
There's like the people school who want to make the

602
00:32:22.839 --> 00:32:25.039
straight a's and the people who are content to just

603
00:32:25.079 --> 00:32:27.839
slide by with a high D or a C and

604
00:32:27.880 --> 00:32:28.519
that's okay.

605
00:32:28.960 --> 00:32:31.519
You know the world has people in all different levels.

606
00:32:31.960 --> 00:32:36.400
So as you work with people, have you found that oftentimes,

607
00:32:36.759 --> 00:32:38.680
you know, I'm sure as you're working with those that

608
00:32:38.960 --> 00:32:43.680
particularly have suffered abuse, that oftentimes they end up getting

609
00:32:43.720 --> 00:32:48.960
into a relationship with someone who again is creating abuse.

610
00:32:49.519 --> 00:32:52.480
And have you ever looked at that and worked with

611
00:32:52.559 --> 00:32:56.079
people and helped them understand why is it that we

612
00:32:56.240 --> 00:32:59.759
continue to make the same choices and attract the same

613
00:32:59.759 --> 00:33:04.400
time people into our lives when we recognize that's not

614
00:33:04.440 --> 00:33:05.039
what we want.

615
00:33:05.799 --> 00:33:10.480
It's a perpetual pattern. It happens frequently. I'll have clients

616
00:33:10.480 --> 00:33:14.359
who were abused as a young child, who then when

617
00:33:14.359 --> 00:33:17.640
they start their relationships, end up with an abusive partner

618
00:33:18.160 --> 00:33:23.400
and may eventually marry an abusive person. And they're like, well,

619
00:33:23.440 --> 00:33:26.400
I just don't understand. But what I find is usually

620
00:33:26.400 --> 00:33:30.839
there's this victim mentality energy that's in them, and it's

621
00:33:30.880 --> 00:33:35.640
like it pulls narcissists or oh, this person suffering so

622
00:33:35.680 --> 00:33:36.839
I could take advantage of them.

623
00:33:36.880 --> 00:33:39.440
It's like it magnet, It just pulls.

624
00:33:39.119 --> 00:33:42.240
These other folks to them, even though they say that's

625
00:33:42.279 --> 00:33:45.599
not who they want. But in all honesty, they don't

626
00:33:45.599 --> 00:33:50.000
really know how to focus and function in a relationship

627
00:33:50.039 --> 00:33:53.920
that's not that kind of abuse because they've never had it.

628
00:33:54.039 --> 00:33:57.119
A lot of them have fear over getting in, as

629
00:33:57.160 --> 00:34:01.160
they call it, a normalish relationship. When they can say, Okay,

630
00:34:01.200 --> 00:34:04.960
these are the characteristics you don't want, why are you

631
00:34:05.039 --> 00:34:08.639
accepting them? You had this abuse happen before, why are

632
00:34:08.679 --> 00:34:11.360
you allowing it now? And when they come to grips

633
00:34:11.360 --> 00:34:13.800
with it and realize, oh my gosh, yes, the last

634
00:34:13.840 --> 00:34:16.920
three people have all been this. Okay, let's work on you.

635
00:34:16.960 --> 00:34:18.760
No more people right now, Let's work on you.

636
00:34:19.320 --> 00:34:19.440
Now.

637
00:34:19.519 --> 00:34:21.960
Who do you want in the future? I suggest making

638
00:34:22.039 --> 00:34:25.480
a list of characteristics you want in a future partner,

639
00:34:25.920 --> 00:34:28.760
and if they don't have them, don't give in because

640
00:34:28.800 --> 00:34:31.960
you get one. If you have ten, get ten. And

641
00:34:32.039 --> 00:34:33.679
they looked at me really strange.

642
00:34:34.159 --> 00:34:37.559
Well, and do you find that they're going to continue

643
00:34:37.599 --> 00:34:39.719
to be attracted? I mean, you can even say, you know,

644
00:34:39.840 --> 00:34:43.800
here's the red flag, so don't be attracted to anyone

645
00:34:43.800 --> 00:34:47.880
that blah blah blah blah blah. But unless unless we

646
00:34:47.960 --> 00:34:52.360
get to that rut, cause unless we get to what

647
00:34:52.519 --> 00:34:55.280
was that experience? And as you say you work with

648
00:34:55.360 --> 00:34:58.880
women who have gone through abuse, you know, as they

649
00:34:58.920 --> 00:35:03.039
look back at that exp experience, how do they get

650
00:35:03.079 --> 00:35:06.480
to the point where that is no longer occurring in

651
00:35:06.519 --> 00:35:09.639
their lives? And you mentioned grief, is that the first

652
00:35:09.719 --> 00:35:12.760
step is to grieve it, but how else besides grief

653
00:35:13.159 --> 00:35:16.280
you help them to move to a point where that

654
00:35:16.559 --> 00:35:21.159
energy that's coming from within is no longer attracting those

655
00:35:21.239 --> 00:35:21.920
type of people.

656
00:35:22.480 --> 00:35:25.159
Yes, they may have to deal with the grief, but

657
00:35:25.320 --> 00:35:29.280
they also need to start valuing themselves and working on

658
00:35:29.320 --> 00:35:32.480
their worth and their value because these these abusers have

659
00:35:32.599 --> 00:35:36.119
taken away their value and their worth, their self esteem,

660
00:35:36.519 --> 00:35:39.360
and so they're at a point where any any affection

661
00:35:39.960 --> 00:35:43.679
feels like it's the good affection. And so instead of

662
00:35:43.840 --> 00:35:46.480
just jumping to that, I want them to feel value

663
00:35:46.519 --> 00:35:50.440
in themselves, in value alone. And then if somebody comes

664
00:35:50.440 --> 00:35:53.400
in that complements them, and I usually have them put

665
00:35:53.400 --> 00:35:55.920
a support structure up so they'll have a couple friends

666
00:35:55.960 --> 00:35:59.000
who who know what they really want, what they're expecting,

667
00:35:59.079 --> 00:36:01.840
what they're hoping for. And so if this other person

668
00:36:01.880 --> 00:36:05.639
comes in and they don't get the approval, then these

669
00:36:06.079 --> 00:36:08.639
backup friends are like, just sit in the person, keep

670
00:36:08.679 --> 00:36:11.239
going and they can check them. So I mean sometimes

671
00:36:11.239 --> 00:36:13.039
it's hard to do on your own. So that backup

672
00:36:13.079 --> 00:36:15.559
person is really a helpful person.

673
00:36:15.679 --> 00:36:19.000
Have well, and you've written this book had the Counter,

674
00:36:19.119 --> 00:36:20.800
and I don't have a little name you can share

675
00:36:20.840 --> 00:36:23.519
with the audience. They WoT name. But you talk about

676
00:36:24.000 --> 00:36:27.239
spiritual recipes. I'd love for you, what do you talk

677
00:36:27.280 --> 00:36:30.559
about in your book and then talk a little bit

678
00:36:30.599 --> 00:36:33.000
about what you mean by spiritual recipes.

679
00:36:33.440 --> 00:36:36.800
So the title is at the Counter Spiritual Recipes for

680
00:36:36.880 --> 00:36:41.239
Faith in everyday life. It's a weekly devotional, it has

681
00:36:41.280 --> 00:36:45.360
scripture in it, it has family recipes. As a pastor,

682
00:36:45.639 --> 00:36:49.039
I would take meals like a homemade chicken pop pie,

683
00:36:49.480 --> 00:36:51.679
but for people who don't have time, because as a

684
00:36:51.719 --> 00:36:54.440
pastor sometimes you find out the last minute someone had

685
00:36:54.480 --> 00:36:57.199
to have an emergency surgery. You need a quick one.

686
00:36:57.239 --> 00:36:59.519
So I have Laura's real version and I have a

687
00:36:59.559 --> 00:37:02.199
short cut the Christian. But I have all kinds of

688
00:37:02.239 --> 00:37:08.519
recipes in there. And there's journal points and pauses soul

689
00:37:08.679 --> 00:37:11.519
pauses as I like to call them, and they're there

690
00:37:11.559 --> 00:37:14.559
to give you just a chance to think. Actually, this

691
00:37:14.559 --> 00:37:17.480
one's funny. It says gratitude is not a finish line.

692
00:37:17.920 --> 00:37:21.960
It's a way of noticing what grace has quietly restored.

693
00:37:22.519 --> 00:37:24.960
So it's not a recipe for food, it's a recipe

694
00:37:25.039 --> 00:37:26.000
for life.

695
00:37:26.199 --> 00:37:29.920
There are a recipe both there are there are recipes,

696
00:37:30.000 --> 00:37:31.920
and there are recipes, so you have a place to

697
00:37:32.519 --> 00:37:35.320
have a soul pause, which is a question, a soul

698
00:37:35.440 --> 00:37:37.800
note like I just read, and then there's a prayer

699
00:37:38.320 --> 00:37:41.039
for each week. Some people it was meant to be weekly,

700
00:37:41.119 --> 00:37:43.519
but some people just jump and go right through it.

701
00:37:44.199 --> 00:37:49.920
I include different little antidotes and stories, one about finding

702
00:37:49.960 --> 00:37:52.480
out that the whole world doesn't make brownies with marshmallows

703
00:37:52.480 --> 00:37:55.119
and frosting on them. As I grew up with I

704
00:37:55.119 --> 00:37:58.079
thought that was just the norm, until I realized it

705
00:37:58.159 --> 00:38:00.800
wasn't recipe years of comfort.

706
00:38:01.159 --> 00:38:03.920
When you say weekly, how long does that last? Is

707
00:38:03.920 --> 00:38:07.639
that a twelve week program? Is that a sixteen week program?

708
00:38:07.800 --> 00:38:12.119
The book is fifty three chapters, I believe, or fifty

709
00:38:12.119 --> 00:38:14.639
two chapters, so one per week, and then an epilogue.

710
00:38:14.679 --> 00:38:17.840
So you could read one of these little short couple

711
00:38:17.880 --> 00:38:20.679
page devotions in a week, or you could do them daily.

712
00:38:20.719 --> 00:38:21.320
It's up to you.

713
00:38:21.719 --> 00:38:25.159
It's not really a program, although some churches in small

714
00:38:25.159 --> 00:38:28.880
groups have actually started doing a Bible study with it,

715
00:38:29.039 --> 00:38:31.320
and so I created leader guides that would be either

716
00:38:31.440 --> 00:38:34.039
six or twelve weeks to help guide them along the

717
00:38:34.079 --> 00:38:38.960
way to have discussions. Oftentimes, we need to know that

718
00:38:38.960 --> 00:38:42.000
we're not alone in this, and so by having a

719
00:38:42.039 --> 00:38:46.360
facilitator there with a couple folks meeting and being able

720
00:38:46.360 --> 00:38:49.599
to address the questions, you know, you feel in a

721
00:38:49.599 --> 00:38:52.880
safe place, You feel comfortable sharing. Being able to share

722
00:38:53.000 --> 00:38:56.239
is a good second step of what's going on. All

723
00:38:56.280 --> 00:38:58.519
that baggage. You have a safe place you can unload

724
00:38:58.519 --> 00:39:02.760
and unpack that one portion this week. And so there

725
00:39:02.800 --> 00:39:06.239
are several groups going right now upper East coast of

726
00:39:06.280 --> 00:39:08.079
the US, and they are.

727
00:39:08.400 --> 00:39:10.400
Really enjoying just sitting down.

728
00:39:10.440 --> 00:39:13.079
In fact, one of the groups kicked off making one

729
00:39:13.079 --> 00:39:16.800
of the recipes from the book and they are enjoying

730
00:39:16.880 --> 00:39:20.239
food and conversation because at the counter is a real thing.

731
00:39:20.599 --> 00:39:23.840
The counter is a counter that came to my house.

732
00:39:23.880 --> 00:39:26.639
My great grandfather built it for my great grandmother. It

733
00:39:26.679 --> 00:39:29.039
was a counter that was built into their house and

734
00:39:29.480 --> 00:39:33.960
when we moved, I actually got that and so it's

735
00:39:33.960 --> 00:39:36.880
in my house and I look out over it, there's

736
00:39:36.880 --> 00:39:40.440
a window behind it, and I think conversations happen at

737
00:39:40.519 --> 00:39:43.079
the counter. It's where you can come in, take off

738
00:39:43.119 --> 00:39:45.840
your shoes, grab a cup of coffee, and just let

739
00:39:45.920 --> 00:39:47.679
your hair down and say, Okay, here's what's going on

740
00:39:47.719 --> 00:39:51.119
in my life. And so when I say spiritual recipes,

741
00:39:51.280 --> 00:39:54.239
it's let's think about what's going on, let's talk about it.

742
00:39:54.320 --> 00:39:56.199
So not everybody knows. So I gave them like a

743
00:39:56.199 --> 00:39:58.880
little nudge question that kind of goes along with the topic.

744
00:39:59.320 --> 00:40:02.800
I gave a little piece of scripture that fits that point,

745
00:40:03.000 --> 00:40:06.079
kind of getting them triggered and ready with all their

746
00:40:06.079 --> 00:40:09.480
information and just give them a chance to just pause.

747
00:40:09.480 --> 00:40:11.719
And what was funny was I wrote the book, but

748
00:40:11.800 --> 00:40:14.519
I put the journaling pieces in the book. Well, the

749
00:40:14.519 --> 00:40:17.800
book also has recipes, and so I heard a number

750
00:40:17.800 --> 00:40:19.880
of comments, Laura, I don't want to write in the

751
00:40:19.920 --> 00:40:22.400
book because I don't if somebody gets a recipe, I

752
00:40:22.440 --> 00:40:25.239
don't want them to see my answers. So then I

753
00:40:25.280 --> 00:40:28.239
had to go make a separate journal with the one

754
00:40:28.280 --> 00:40:31.960
hundred and seventeen prompts so they could have their privacy.

755
00:40:32.000 --> 00:40:34.360
And I get it. But it was really funny.

756
00:40:34.440 --> 00:40:36.239
So you know, I want people to think when they

757
00:40:36.239 --> 00:40:38.119
grab the book, they can just pull up to the counter,

758
00:40:38.679 --> 00:40:41.280
have a sit, ponder what's in there. It may or

759
00:40:41.320 --> 00:40:43.599
may not resonate for that day, but it may be

760
00:40:43.719 --> 00:40:45.800
a couple weeks later they come back and they're like, yeah,

761
00:40:45.880 --> 00:40:47.920
you wrote about that chicken pot pie. You know, I

762
00:40:47.960 --> 00:40:50.239
don't remember the thing, but I just remember the poppie

763
00:40:50.320 --> 00:40:52.039
was there. So I went back and looked that recipe

764
00:40:52.119 --> 00:40:55.760
up and yeah, that's how I was feeling that day and.

765
00:40:55.599 --> 00:40:56.559
Being able to name it.

766
00:40:56.599 --> 00:41:00.199
Because we have all these emotions, but we just so

767
00:41:00.400 --> 00:41:03.400
fast paced we can't take the time to actually clarify

768
00:41:03.480 --> 00:41:05.440
what it is we're feeling and how we're going to

769
00:41:05.519 --> 00:41:07.519
resonate with it if it's.

770
00:41:07.440 --> 00:41:08.079
Going to trigger.

771
00:41:09.159 --> 00:41:10.360
How do people find the book?

772
00:41:10.800 --> 00:41:13.639
It's on Amazon or can be ordered through any bookstore.

773
00:41:14.039 --> 00:41:18.199
Wonderful. So we're running out of time, So what would

774
00:41:18.239 --> 00:41:20.440
you like to share with the audience? Kind of as

775
00:41:20.480 --> 00:41:22.519
a final message, Well, if.

776
00:41:22.320 --> 00:41:27.039
This conversation has resonated, please go to Bakingpastor dot com.

777
00:41:27.400 --> 00:41:30.760
There is a button on the homepage for a free

778
00:41:31.239 --> 00:41:34.760
special edition Soul Pause Journal, which has some topics and

779
00:41:34.800 --> 00:41:38.199
some prayers you can walk through. You can also connect

780
00:41:38.239 --> 00:41:41.119
with the book and have links to my podcasts or

781
00:41:41.199 --> 00:41:42.760
reach out if you just need.

782
00:41:42.519 --> 00:41:45.760
Help, and the name of your podcast is at.

783
00:41:45.559 --> 00:41:47.199
The counter with the Baking Pastor.

784
00:41:47.760 --> 00:41:50.760
All Right, I love it, Laura, thanks so much. This

785
00:41:50.760 --> 00:41:53.519
this has been a fun conversation. And you know, obviously

786
00:41:53.559 --> 00:41:55.880
we could go on and on and on because it's

787
00:41:55.960 --> 00:41:59.559
such a deep subject that I love how you talk

788
00:41:59.639 --> 00:42:05.280
about this spiritual fatigue and this emotional fatigue and for

789
00:42:05.360 --> 00:42:08.760
people to be able to recognize that that's what they're experiencing,

790
00:42:09.280 --> 00:42:12.760
and that there's a way not by just total focus,

791
00:42:12.800 --> 00:42:15.239
but there's a way to gain clarity and to start

792
00:42:15.239 --> 00:42:18.880
to overcome that. And again, if people want to reach

793
00:42:18.920 --> 00:42:20.920
out to you once again, how do they find you.

794
00:42:21.360 --> 00:42:24.519
They find me at the Bakingpastor dot com.

795
00:42:24.559 --> 00:42:26.079
Wonderful, Lora, thanks so much.

796
00:42:26.559 --> 00:42:27.800
Thank you Doug for having me.

797
00:42:28.480 --> 00:42:30.840
I appreciate it. And folks, I hope you gained something

798
00:42:30.840 --> 00:42:35.320
out of this. As usual, I probably gain more than anybody.

799
00:42:35.480 --> 00:42:38.920
I just see a very wonderful people like you. But anyway, folks,

800
00:42:38.920 --> 00:42:41.119
thanks for listening. Hope you join us again soon. So

801
00:42:41.239 --> 00:42:44.239
this is doctor Doug saying no mistay