Truth And Transcendence

0:01 This program is designed to provide general information with regards to the subject matters covered. This information is given with the understanding that neither the hosts, guests, sponsors, or station are engaged in rendering any specific and personal medical, financial, legal counseling, professional service, or any advice. You should seek the services of competent professionals before applying or trying any suggested ideas. At the end of the day, it's not about what you have or even what you've accomplished. It's about what you've done with those accomplishments. It's about who you've lifted up, who you've made better. It's about what you've given back.

0:44 Thanzel Washington, Welcome to Inspire Vision. Our sole purpose is to elevate the lives of others and to inspire you to do the same. Catherine, welcome to the show. Thank you, Doug very much. Indeed, Oh, I'm pleased to have you on the show as I've read some more about what you're doing, and obviously you have an incredible podcast yourself. I find it fascinating and I think this is going to be an interesting discussion. What I'd love for you to do is to share with the audience who you are and maybe the story behind how you got to this point. Okay, Well, I was born to a very interesting alternative couple.

1:28 My father's name was Douglas. Actually, that's the name that's been very present for me all my life. And they were kind of unusual in the sense that they were kind of anti establishment, freethinking, alternative, Bohemian, natural health, you know, all that kind of thing, which meant right from the very beginning, I was encouraged to question things, and I was encouraged to try to take responsibility for myself, which to me was always good news at the age of six, and also to see the possibility of celebration in life.

2:09 There was a My parents were Scotts as well as being very alternative, and the Scots, I don't know if we know them very well, are probably partly to do with living in a very hostile environment with all the mountains and the rain, but they've got this extraordinary sense of humor of we're going to have fun no matter what, no matter how bad it gets, We're going to say, every crisis can be turned into a game, you know. And so that was my roots really and I think from there on I kind of ricocheted back and forth between following that particular lead and going deeper and deeper into all of the wonderful unfoldings that can occur from that and the other side of the extreme, all the usual problems and issues of I'm a child. Does nobody like me at school?

3:03 You know? Is someone bullying me? Am I being bossy? Or am I just being assertive? You know? All of the start adolescent, all this stuff in adolescents, all of the stuff everybody has. So I had having that kind of interesting background didn't save me from all of the developmental experiences that we're all exposed to. The care. I did, actually, at one point in kind of entertain the illusion that it's possible to get rid of all the baggage, you know, that it's possible to rise above all of these human concerns and ego issues, et cetera.

3:44 And for several years I tried to just get rid of them all until I realized that this was a really stupid endeavor, utterly impossible, and besides, why bother, it's not really you know, So I went through all of that as well. So I've now landed at a place where I'm working with people quite a lot, doing quite a lot of group work. I think a lot of people at the moment are looking for connection, community group sort of group exploration, particularly after the last few years that were very isolating for a lot of people, and people are kind of trying to soak up some love, you know, in whatever context that might be, and also doing one to one transformative coaching work. And I'm kind of integrating a number of different threads that have run through that I've become interested in and immersed in in my life, and one of those is the humanistic psychology thread of you know, we all have the possibility at least of choosing what we want to do with our lives and choosing our own growth, and that we do naturally want to grow and that we will naturally heal unless you know, that whole kind of thrust. And then another whole thrust, which is around conscious movement, living, inhabiting the body, allowing the body to move, breathe process, express

5:15 that whole kind of free spirit physical embodiment aspect of being alive. And the third one being about energy and spirituality, you know, consciousness. I've done a lot of work with energy healing modalities and I'm still working with one of those now. So I'm working with a number of things with clients, one to one, with people in groups, and I'm running my podcast Truth and Transcendence, which you kindly said kind words of that. So that's a bit about the beginning and where I am now and just the bits in between.

5:56 Okay, well that's great, And you know, you mentioned something that I find fascinating and I think there can be a really strong debate about this because you talked about you know, and obviously as we think about our lives, and I think most of us that have really studied this, investigated and research that know that our lives, our experience in lives, you're so controlled by those subconscious belief systems, imprints all of those types of things, or at least they can be controlling. And there's a lot of people that say we need to get rid of those, and that's what you brought up. You know, I need to get rid of those, and yet the reality is you're saying, no, I don't. And so I think for a lot of people that I've talked to, the concept then becomes recognize that it's there, and I think this is where consciousness comes in. So we can talk about that but recognize that it's there. But once you recognize it and accept it, it just kind of goes away and it no longer becomes the effect of what's going on. What are your thoughts on that and what's been your experience with that?

7:06 Yeah, I would say that that dynamic is a very strong tendency, you know, the sense that when we become aware of something it then changes. The only thing about it is it doesn't necessarily change one hundred percent forever, so we still go in and out. So you know, I've done a lot of work around what you're talking about there of recognizing the conditioning and the limiting beliefs. I'm acutely aware that those are not who I am, they are not the heart of me. They are programming. And because I'm aware of that is, of course I feel much more free to actually live in the present and make my own choices. And yet there are still situations that can throw me right back into that. And that's when it gets really tricky. When we think we've got it, when we think we're enlightened, when we think we've transcended it all, and then something happens and we're reminded with a crash that we're still human.

8:12 And how does consciousness fit into that? Your definition of consciousness, I'd love to know what that is and how does that fit into exactly what you're talking about. Well, first off, I don't think it's possible to define consciousness because it's infinite and it's everywhere you know, it's in everybody, it's in everything. So people do ask me to define consciousness and either I can't do that when I can say that my experience is that my state of consciousness, anyone's state of consciousness does pretty much dictate our perception of everything. So if the state of consciousness is a state of equanimity, a state of acceptance, a state of love, a state of devotion to the divine, when we're in that state of consciousness, everything that happens to us feels and is experienced completely differently from when we are in a completely different state of consciousness. And equally, our state of consciousness actually dictates how the body functions.

9:28 You know, there are some people who have this kind of wonderful glow about them who never seem to get sick, and it's something to do with the fact that that state of consciousness actually supports the body functioning as it's supposed to rather than interfering, because when we get well tangled up in the self limiting beliefs, we can literally cause tensions and blockages within the body which can actually make us sick and eventually kill us, you know. And that's a very extreme way of describing it. Well, yeah, And as you talk about from what I'm hearing, as you're talking about state quote state of consciousness, what I'm really hearing you say is that consciousness are We're not going to define that. We could talk about awareness and all of that, but the reality is that there are different levels of the state of consciousness. Is what if I'm hearing what you're saying right is kind of like a ladder. Are we on the first step right at the bottom or are we much higher? And is that kind of what you're trying to talk about? That we all have a certain state of consciousness and depending on the level of that state of consciousness determines to some degree our experience in life.

10:39 Absolutely, and we move between different states of consciousness much more easily than we think. Our state of consciousness can just shift just like that. But the thing about it is when we're really conscious and aware in the present, we recognize that experience and it's absolutely wonderful. We know we're there, we're not there. We don't realize we're not there. Because we're not there. Because we're not there. It's also the weird mystery thing that goes off. So if if we're not at that higher level, we don't even know that we're not at that higher level, that type of thing. In order to know, we would have to be at the higher level in order to be able to be aware at which level we were at. You know, So I think the best I think the best thing we can do is to sort of practice paying attention. Practice. Well, there's all sorts of practices that kind of drop into our experience, drop into being present. I went to yoga this morning, and this particular lady who I've only just started going to is very good at having us do really really simple physical movements that actually help us to come into a different state of awareness. And she says at the beginning, you know, you can't practice the state of awareness, according to her theory, but you can practice the physical movement and that will shift your awareness. Do

12:10 we understand how that happens. No, does it matter. No, What matters is you're kind of openheartedly we're opening ourselves to the possibility of shifting the consciousness. Okay, So for those of us that are at that lower revel level of consciousness, and we don't even know where at the lower level, how do you help us to be able to move up to that higher level to where we actually are conscious enough to know that we're conscious? Well, do you know what? I think that awful lot of people are actually on that path now, and probably most of the people listening to this podcast are actually on that path in the sense of, you know, a lot of people have been to retreats, They've been been to yoga for example, They've meditated, they've done conscious dance, they've done weird sort of water treatments, you know, all sorts of things that we've done. And I think for each of us, there are things that kind of really resonate.

13:14 And I would always recommend to people look out up for the things that really resonate. You know, if you try something and it really resonates, weave it into your life, you know, integrate it into your life so it becomes part of your lifestyle. You know, don't say, God, that really blew my mind. Right, Let's just go back to my life and ignore I ever did it, which is sadly what many of us have done in the past. And if you try something and it doesn't really resonate, leave it. Well, and you talk about different things. One of the things you really hit on is meditation. And you know, even yoga is a part of meditation. But you know, I happen to meditate. I try to meditate every day.

14:00 Sometimes I don't get a chance to do then. But how much does meditation, for instance, Let's talk about the different areas you said that people could find that resonate with them. Let's talk about a few of those that you have understood to be helpful to people. I'm working at the moment with an energy modality called Pellowa. I don't know that's it. No, I've not heard of it. It's quite new over here. It's out of Australia, channeled by the founder about twenty years ago, twenty one years now, and just came to the UK six years ago. And there's about three or four practitioners in the US, right, so it's really really really early. It's an energy technique and it's a consciousness modality. So in order to practice that, you find a practitioner and you have a treatment. It's like a sixty minute treatment. It's hands off, distant or in person. Now, how that works is that the the Pellower energy, and I'm going to use terms which might sound a bit new ag okay, but the Pellow energy comes directly from sources. It's like a very fine, very powerful energy. And in this particular practice, the practitioner doesn't direct the energy at all. The energy doesn't come through the practitioner. They don't channel it. They just literally they

15:30 are like a kind of introductory agent. They just go Pellower Doug. Let's say you have a treatment, Pellower Doug, Doug Pellower over to you, right, and then the Pellow client contract together as to what that client's consciousness requires for to make a shift for their highs potential, and the Pellower delivers that whatever it is. Okay, but obviously obviously is my guide. You are pain some things to help me to learn to integrate with that. PLO right, absolutely not know. The whole principle is that your consciousness knows everything it needs to know in terms of what you actually need. So at each point in our lives. The shift we need next could is unique to us in any given moment, and it's different every day and different at different points in the same day. So, for example, if I think about shifts that I've experienced using this particular modality, one shift might have been the shift of letting go of striving as an example. Now that's that's an example which lots of people talk about, lots of people read books about they practice ways to try and let go of striving, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera. If somebody, if that's what somebody needs, then what Pelowa does It comes in and helps activate that

17:02 person's consciousness for that shit take place within that sixty minute period without the client necessarily even understanding how that happened. But when they come out of it, it has happened. But before they go in, they might not know that's the shift that they needed. So I've had many of these treatments. I'm now a teacher as well. I've never known when I go into one of these treatments, I never know what I'm going to get from it, because, as you say, we've got so many layers of consciousness, many of them are on they are below the conscious level. So I'm not one hundred percent informed about what shift it is that I most need next. But if I'm prepared to trust and go, okay, I'm just going to subject myself to this and just receive and just allow this energy to come in interact with my consciousness, activate the shift and see what happens, then you see what happens.

18:04 So it's this is for people who are willing and have the capacity to kind of be that receptive, you know, to just let it. It's not for everybody. I mean, I'm saying for some people. They would hear me saying that, they go no, no, no. People that other people listen to that, think what you mean all I have to do is lie there and just be recepted for an hour and then just receive the gift I'm given through the experience. Other people are going to go, yeah, yes, please. So do you remember yourself? I'm private inn between one of those because if you say all right, receive pollowa and I'm sitting here, yeah.

18:53 So you know the reality is that do you do you just say a few. Words and then you're quiet for the hour, or is there some things that you say during the course. Of it, or how does it have no speaking. And how do you get them to the point that they are receptive and they can start to sense it. The the the gauge of the of the readiness is that the person has told me they want the treatment and they've paid for it, okay, because because the idea is that each percharge of themselves. So if they decide they want to do it, that's the that's consent. And if they're paid for it, or they greed pay for it at the end of the session, whatever, that's them placing the value on it and a value on themselves in that regard.

19:50 All right, So if someone says, as you said, there's some that say no, I don't want anything to do with it, what's my next choice? Well, what are some of the other choices I have to be able to develop that elevated level of consciousness. So another example is conscious dance. So in conscious dance, what are you familiar with conscious dance? Perhaps so you will be in a minute. Okay. For most of our lives, we're either just not aware what we're doing with our bodies at all, or we're using our body in repetitive the same way like you're looking at a screen, you're sitting on a chair, You're using your body to walk to the bathroom and back, walk to the kitchen, walk to the car, drive in the car. And what happens with that particular dynamic is we lose touch with the experience of the body. We lose touch of that whole raft of layers of consciousness that are actually living in the physical body. If you go to a conscious dance session, usually there's some music playing.

21:06 Usually the facilitator will say some things actually at the beginning and during and what you're encouraged to do is let go into movement and just simply allow the body to move exactly as it wishes to, without planning it, without trying to follow any steps, just just completely just following and seeing what happens. Again, it's quite receptive. But some people this is more acceptable, you know, accessible, than something like pillower because I'm in a room, I've got my eyes open, I'm moving my body. Right, what's the worst that could happen? You know, this is not mystical, right, they say to themselves, Well, I say, everything's mistical. But anyway, so by allowing the body to simply move. What happens is that a lot of the experiences and thought forms and emotions and so forth that are held inside the body, which can be accessed through meditation, can be accessed working with Pella, but can be accessed through movement as you move the body, as the energy moves around the body.

22:16 Because it's not a planned, choreographed movement, it's organic. What tends to happen is that the things that need to be released get released, and the things that want to sort of come out as an expression, let's say, an expression of joy or creativity or color or vibrancy that is then permitted to come out because there's no restriction on the movement. Now, I've known people who've used just that modality and that alone for decades to achieve extraordinary shifts in consciousness. Okay, then that sounds interesting. And then you again, you mentioned meditation. How do people? How do people? Because I thought, I think a lot of people that are listening to this would probably lean more towards meditation if they really knew how to do it and how that can work.

23:10 Can you share a little bit about your experience with meditation and how that can help people. Yes, I am. I really like the expression meditative states to doing meditation. I think you mentioned earlier a distinction. Do being and doing Yes, absolutely, and. That whole the minute we try to sort of do meditation were then I heard someone saying, once you know, it's not a competitive sport, you know, it's a being this that we're seeking to do. So I think that's the first thing in the mind to think, can I drop into a meditative state? Can I release myself into that?

23:56 And then just simply to even simply sitting there and just letting go of trying to do anything at all in the mind, not trying to do anything at all with the emotions, just simply observing. To me, that's level one of meditation. To me, that's the first piece in terms of meditation, and for many people that on its own is quite an accomplishment, yes, you know. And then there are various other layers, like another one being the one with a focus, where you choose a focus, whether it's a candle flame, whether it's a particular idea, whether it's a particular quality, whatever it might be, that focus and coming back to focus, coming back to focus, coming back to focus, coming back to focus is a powerful training for the mind and for the being, and so that's very different from just dropping in and just.

25:01 You know. And then another one that is very powerful is journaling, which is a form of meditation, you know, and in journaling it's it's we are just it's a discipline of putting into words on paper or scribbles or doodles or images, doesn't matter, whatever's going through the mind, and just not censoring it, not trying to control it, not trying to package it, just literally flooding it all out onto the paper. That's a wonderful practice because again that's another way of letting go of the ego control, letting go of trying to package ourselves into this sort of I'm going to say male principle, but I'm talking about the structure principle, the intentional principle, the doing principle, you know, letting go of that which which often when people men say that's what they're trying to do, not they do the more flowing side of themselves.

26:09 So the examples, Yeah, and you keep mentioning an ego, and I find that a fascinating, fascinating concept. You know, we talk about ego and you talk about you know, trying to eliminate that desiring and so forth. But really, the ego is the thing that really is causing so much trouble in our life because we're desiring this, We're wishing we had this, we're wish we could be this, all of those types of things. And yet if we're able to control that ego to the point where it no longer fits into that realm, but rather it's just there to truly help us to live the type of life that we want to live, it makes a difference.

26:52 What are your thoughts about the ego? I know that. Ekar totally talks about that a lot in his books. I know if you've read those, But any thoughts on you keep bringing up ego, So talk a little bit about ego. Yes, so, well, ego is there for a very good reason. We need it. You know, we need to have an identityere we are. We are incarnate in a physical body right now, and so you know, in order to manage that and manage life, we do need ego. And I think what you're saying is that we don't want ego to take over. We don't want ego to run the life. We want it to be a facility that we have from yes. And one of the great ways to do that, I think, is to give it a project. Give it a project. Be happy, right, because it wants to be doing a project. You know, it's quite resourceful, the ego, it's quite clever. So just give it a project, you know.

27:48 So the project could be I'm going to refurbish my house, or the project could be I'm going to launch a new workshop, or the project could be I'm going to practice eight different types of meditation by the month, So these could be You can use your ego to actually strengthen the choice that you want to make, where the choice is coming from spirital, from heart, not from ego. So it's almost like you trick the ego. You trick the ego into being the servant. Well, and a lot of it depends on the purpose behind that. So for instance, you say, you know, one thing would be you know, let's fix up the house. Well, if the ego is saying, let's fix up the house because it would be more comfortable for my children, for my family, we'll find greater peace here. That's the ego not really controlling you. If you say, oh, I want to fix up my house because I want people to see how cool my house is, and you know, really show them how cool I am and my family is.

28:47 All of a sudden, the ego is entirely different, and so in my mind, really the purpose behind those activities really determine whether we're using the ego in a in a healthy way or whether we're using it in an unhealthy way. Yeah, well, or shall we say in service to our highest good? Really? Yes, because you can tell me that that example with a house, I think is a good one because I've I've I've refurbished houses myself, and I've done it for both those two different reasons on different occasions. Actually, it's like, hey, this is going to look really amazing and impressive, right, And it did to be fair, but it lacked heart, you know, and where I am now, part of you know, I want it to be welcoming to people. I wanted to you know, there's a whole number of things I wanted for it. I wanted to support me to do the work I want to do to help people, et cetera.

29:46 So the feeling in this property I'm in now is completely different. And I've been to other people's properties, you know, where Let's say someone spent to fortune and you walk in. You can't get comfortable in here. I can't get comfortable. You know, It's okay, nothing wrong with the cushions, right, I just don't feel at another place, which might be a lot less impressive, but which is full of heart. It's interesting how we feel that energy, isn't it. I mean from someone else. You actually feel the energy of that quote ego, whether it's one of empowerment and kindness and love, or whether it's one of you know that I'm important, I'm good, I'm better that type of thing.

30:33 So the energy is fascinating. So here's a question that does come to my mind, is we think about consciousness, how does curiosity and inquiry come into that? And do you have to reach a certain level of consciousness, healthy consciousness in order to be able to start really getting curious, getting you know, inquiring what's going on, inquiring what's going on? And how does that make a difference in our lives. I would say that curiosity and inquiry are our birthright. We're born with those. They are completely inherent to us. And I would say that curiosity and inquiry are two of the things in the human race that have allowed us to survive at all with our ridiculously pathetic bodies. Honestly, I mean, if you look at us compared to other creatures, the fact we've survived is phenomenal. And I think curiosity and inquiry has saved us. Unfortunately, I think as we go through life and we take on conditioning and self limiting beliefs and so forth, those two things can get masked and can and can kind of get we can get a bit sort of disconnected from that side of you asked any And I think when we kind of clear away the dross you know in our lives of I don't know, situations that aren't very authentic, or situations that don't serve us, or where we are not serving others or you know, when we kind of clear that stuff away and we invest in our consciousness and our

32:05 awareness and so forth, I think curiosity and inquiry tend to become much more vivid. Again. I mean, I've seen this over and over where someone's come to work with me and they've said one of the things they've said is, oh, no, I'm not a creative person. No, no, curiosity not really, no, no no, And they start working and they start clearing stuff out that he's clearing out, and they start recognizing their strengths and celebrating those more, taking pleasure in those, using them more fully. Before we know it, they become really inventive and curious and inquiring, and they say, what have you done to me? I'm just really curious all the time now, And I don't know it was in there before. I haven't done anything to you. I haven't kind of spiked your coffee. It was already in there.

32:53 It's just it was covered up. Someone used to call it layers of peanut butter. Covered in layers of peanut butter. So you can't sort of find the sort of innocent, inquiring, creative spirit that's in there in all of us. So as you were working with people and you find that, and you use the word mystic, you know, little woo woo that type of thing. Have you found that as you get into that, does it help to talk a little bit about the quantum field and the science behind that and helping people to understand that. You know, within the last ten to twenty years, scientists have all of a sudden become so aware of all of this energy and frequency that's coming from not within, well, it is within also, but is from without also, And how what you're doing literally is taking advantage and tapping into that energy and that frequency that's literally in the quantum field.

33:55 We could call it the universal field, the divine field, whatever you want to call it. Yes, I don't use that language very much myself, although I love it. You know, I think there are people much more well informed than I talking about that particular how can I put it way of describing it? I do talk about universe, and I do think it's very useful and very helpful, and particularly for some people, people who've got what you might call a technical mind. Yes, and I think it's very helpful for them to hang it on structures like that. And for that reason, I'm delighted there are so many wonderful people now doing this work.

34:35 I've had people on my podcast who are very very good at talking about it in that particular way, usually men interestingly, and it's it's it's I think I celebrate. I think it's fantastic. I I tend to not talk so much about defining terms. I think something I do find though, and I'm working with people, is sometimes they come up with defining terms for what they're learning and what they're experiencing, and that then it's then they've got their own terms, which might be you know, quantum, et cetera, it might be a word that they've come up with. Right, So I tend to be more facilitated with people finding the words more than giving them the words.

35:25 Well, yeah, and you know, you talk about men, and you're right, we're I think generally and not going to say specifically, but generally we tend to be a little bit more left brain analytic, and generally women tend to be a little bit more heartfelt and you know, think from their heart rather than you know that and and so I find that, yes, in my case, particularly since I come from a scientific background. For me, as I started to hear and learn about all of this stuff, I'm thinking, you know, this sounds really fascinating, but I want to know the science behind it. Yes, fantastic, you know, And as I've studied it, what has happened is it is for me, it has actually moved into a situation of the as you say, the divinity, the universal part of it, And all of a sudden we begin to really understand that what you're doing, what other people are doing, and when we're meditating, when we're doing all of those types of things, that we're really tapping into a power of frequency and energy that exists and it works. And I think for people to be able to move forward and go through whatever process you know, they seem to resonate with, there has to be that initial belief system that this is going to work for me.

36:47 I would say, either a belief system this is going to work for me, or an intuition that it's worth trying. Yes. Either I've had people turn up on my Hello workshops walking never met them before. They've booked. I know they've booked. I've sent them in emails saying thank you for booking. They've walked in and they've said, I have no idea why I'm here. I have no idea why I booked this. I just saw it. I saw your thing on Facebook. I kept seeing it on Facebook, and then one day I just booked myself on I don't know why, right. And I always say to them, well, it's your higher self that's brought you here, and your higher self is very clever, so you're going to be fine.

37:39 And I love that because you know, you talk about intuition. And you know, I was just I was just on the podcast the other day interviewing someone and they were talking very much about intuition, and I find that people sometimes don't recognize how important and how valuable intuition is. How do how do you help someone to. Be able to tap into that intuitive state that allows them to be able to move forward without having to always be this scientific mind. Well it's a journey, really, so sometimes it takes a while for someone to really really tap into that and really trust it. But if somebody wants like a shorthand way to begin that journey, the easiest way to do it is to look back over your life and ask yourself, what are the moments in my life where I made a decision or something shifted in my life and it turned out well, and I don't really understand how that happened.

38:47 We've all got them. Yes, those moments are usually moments where we followed our intuition without necessarily waiting for a scientific explanation for the sison you were making? Did that well as we look as as we look at that though, and see that there are times where quote we had intuition and we made a mistake. How do you get to the point where you're able to learn which is a valid, healthy intuition and which one may be just based on some emotions. That takes practice. Basically, I'm saying that there's no other way. That takes practice over off years. That's years and years of practice. I've been practicing for years and it's still not perfect. It really is something you just you have to decide to practice it. That's the thing. I mean, some people, a lot of us go through life and never decide to practice that, never decide to practice understanding our intuitive faculties. You can do that on your own.

39:52 You can literally just write in your journal at the end of the day, did I have a strong intuitive sense around anything today? Did I follow it? Did it work out? Did I? You know, if someone does that every day for a month then reads back through the whole thing, they will get a powerful lesson. Now that takes determination to do that, willingness, not giving up after four days and going well, this is just nonsense, which is what we often. You know, when I started journaling, every page was this is nonsense. Why are they're making me do this? Well, it's nonsense. In my head, I have to live with my own head. Now I have to write it on paper as well, and then read it and analyze it and then share it with my peer group. What you know, all that's what stuff, but that you know, you get through that.

40:41 You get through that and get through that. And it's tough. It's tough to journal. I I really, you know. I mean I talk about it. People talk about it all the time. I believe that is helpful, but you're not. For me, it's really tough to journal. How do I how do I get to the point where I literally can start journaling? Because I believe you're saying that it can be so effective in so many ways. You just have to keep going. You have to first if that's what's going on with you. And again I've done this with numerous people. I said, right, find a point in the day every day for five to five let's say five or ten minutes, say ten minutes, bolt it onto something else that you know you have to do.

41:23 I mean, I do my journaling. I've eaten breakfast. Before I get up from breakfast, I write in my germ it's happening whilst I'm sitting there. For ten minutes after I've eaten, which is a good idea anyway. Right, So that's an example. So every day you just sit there and you write, and if you're not into it, you write about being not into it. You write about that. And what do you write about when you're journaling? For instance, now when I say I don't journal practically every day, but at least every week, I am sitting and writing down time that I've had. You know, perhaps is it intentionally to be a blog or those type of things.

42:06 Is journally Does that. Include the intuition, the inspiration that we get that we want to write down for ourselves, or does it only include talk about what happened today or yesterday and so on and so forth. You can, you can include whatever you like. You know, I think that the first kind of barrier to get through is the barrier of resistance to doing it at all. That's the first thing people have to encounter. And if people are willing to explore that resistance, they will encounter all of those other things because that resistance is the reason resistance is so difficult to get through is because it's made of many things all bound in together. So the more we write about our resistance, the more we find out what it's about. So someone might find out that part of that resistance journaling is they were overly criticized as a child for the way they wrote their handwriting, or criticized for the content of their writing, or because they believe that people who write in journals are new ag and a bit suspect, or because they think I'm a mature adult now I shouldn't have to do this, or they think they're too busy. You know, there'll be all sorts of bits and pieces that are inside that sort of mess of resistance in the person, and by writing about that and you start to get The other thing, of course, is if you hire a coach to help

43:37 you actually in a coaching session. Let's say you have a coaching session once a week. You can say to the coach I want to get into journaling. Coach will say, great, I will help you do that. I will teach you how to do it. I will have you do some journaling while you're in this session and then discuss with me how you experience that. So is there a difference. Is there a difference between journaling typing versus handwriting? I personally think there is a difference. I know that these days, a lot of people are more comfortable with typing. I've actually tried both for journaling just as an experiment, and for me, handwriting is much more organic because the thing with handwriting is that the shape of the writing and the way the writing is slanting, and the size of it and the way it sits on the page is so flexible, and that's very helpful. I think. You know, if you look back through a journal with full of handwriting, you can see right that writing is like really tight, or that writing there is really expressive, or that writing you know, it allows more. I think it easier for more to come through with handwriting. But you know, if handwriting to someone who's just really difficult because they only ever do typing, maybe they have to start with typing.

45:05 One of the ways that I've done it is on my iPad. I will actually speak and using a program that then types it, and I find then that's even more fulfilling for me because I'm really speaking the words that are coming to my heart, and as that goes onto the screen, it's like, oh wow, okay, that's what I really feel. In fact, I find that when I do that, more genuine feelings come out than when I'm sitting in either handwriting or typing. But anyway, here we are, and my goodness, time has gone by and we have had a chance to talk to about so many incredible things. As we close, Catherine, what would be a message that you'd like to share with the audience that you think could be something that will stay with them after they finished listening today?

45:54 I think, kind of inspired by our conversation today, I'd like to say that nobody actually has to change. Most of us are really great as we are, and that the motive to try and make ourselves be better is worth questioning. So even if someone just next time they would decided that there's something wrong with them, they got to get better, even though they just question that, that can be incredibly liberating and transforming for somebody. And the second thing I'd like to say is give things a try. Trust your intuition of what you want to try, and trust your intuition as to whether it resonates with you or not.

46:38 All right, how do people find you? They can tune into my podcast they'd be very welcome. It's Truth and Transcendence, or they can go to my website, which is Beingspace dot world. Okay, and spell that out for me. I N G S P A C E dot W O. R l D. Wonderful Catherine, thanks so much. This is this has been fascinating. Thank you. I've had so much fun. Thank you very much. Oh and I have two folks. Thanks for listening. And I hope you've really enjoyed this. And reach out and get a little bit more information. I think you'll find out very valuable. This is a doctor Doug saying, have a wonderful time and no mistay