Dec. 8, 2025

The Business of Relationships: Wisdom from the Boardroom to the Heart

Show Notes
Transcript

Tom Hagerty shares how decades of business insight—and a deep study of world religions—led him to uncover 12 timeless qualities for meaningful personal relationships. From corporate turnarounds to personal transformation, this episode bridges business wisdom and human connection. https://thetomhagerty.com

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This program is designed to provide general information with regards

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to the subject matters covered. This information is given with

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the understanding that neither the hosts, guests, sponsors, or station

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are engaged in rendering any specific and personal medical, financial,

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legal counseling, professional service, or any advice. You should seek

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the services of competent professionals before applying or trying any

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suggested ideas.

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At the end of the day, it's not about what

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you have or even what you've accomplished. It's about what

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you've done with those accomplishments. It's about who you've lifted up,

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who you've made better. It's about what you've given back

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Thanzel Washington, Welcome to Inspire Vision. Our sole purpose is

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to elevate the lives of others and to inspire you

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to do the same.

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Tom Welcome to the show, Doug.

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I'm very very happy to be here, looking forward to

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this interview, in this dialogue with you today.

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Yeah, I am looking forward to it too. I think

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the whole topic that we're going to talk about is

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so important in today's culture and what's going on. What

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I'd love for you to do though, and I find

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this always interesting. What's your background and how on earth

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did you write this book? What brought you to write

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the book? And you can you name it, let the

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audience know the name of the book, and so forth,

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but also what's the motivation behind it? Where you decided

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to write this book and get into this whole discussion.

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Well, let me deal with the easy part first, the background.

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I am the oldest of ten children born and raised

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in Cincinnati, Ohio. Nine of us are still alive. Seven

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of us live in Cincinnati, so we see each other

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quite frequently. And I was the oldest of those ten.

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So I was the example in many ways good and bad.

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And I was educated by the Jesuits, which if you

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know anything about the Catholic religion, the Jesuits are the intellectctuals.

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They are the writers and speakers and university professors of

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the priesthood, if you will. And I think the greatest

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lesson that the Jesuits taught us and certainly me, is

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critical thinking, you know, knowing not just the fact, but

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the source of the facts, and being able to discern well,

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you know. And so I matriculated from ten years of

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Jesuit education into business. I've been in the advertising and

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marketing field, done everything from pitching clients to in some

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cases writing copy and directing commercials and so forth. I

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got into entrepreneurship, founded a couple of companies. I had

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my own consulting firm for many, many years, and we

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excuse me, we found our way into the corporate turnaround.

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Quite by accident of the years. A colleague of mine

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and his client felt that I could help his company

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that was in deep trouble. And I said, I've never

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done something like this before, and as so often happens,

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they said, but what we know you can. So I

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got into that world and it ended up being probably

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the second major career I had after advertising and marketing,

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because I started getting calls from bankers and lawyers and

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accountants who had clients who were in trouble. And that

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trouble arranged anywhere from tax problems to marketing problems, through

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financial messes and so forth, and so that's where I

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spent probably the majority of my career. Doug and this book,

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sort of diving into the second part of your question,

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I frequently say to people that this is the book

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that was never supposed to be a book. One of

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the passions that I had over the years was collecting

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quotes from leaders, and those could be people in sports,

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people in business obviously, people in politics or religion or science.

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Anything that I found inspirational to me, I would I

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would write it down, predating the days of Google docs

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and so forth. But I probably had a notebook or

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two full of these quotes, and probably about eight or

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nine years ago, I started looking at them in the

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way of could this be instructive in a venue other

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than business? You know, because every one of these quotes

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from the business leaders anyway, was said in the context

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of their business, you know. It was in a shareholder letter,

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it was in an annual report, it was an interview

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of speech they gave, and it was decidedly business. And

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I thought, could they apply elsewhere? And I found that

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many of them could be instructive in personal relationship, And

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I started writing essays that included a little biography of

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the business leader, because many times, you know, to the

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casual observer, they don't know who this person's You know,

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we all know Steve Jobs and Warren Buffett and Bill Gates,

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but we don't know anit Erotic and Carly Freina and

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you know, others like that. So I started writing essays

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and giving them to my three adult children and some friends,

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and somewhere along the line somebody said, we think these

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ought to be an interviewer or a newspaper column rather,

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and I poop pooed that idea. I wasn't interested in it,

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didn't think it had legs. And finally I sat down

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one day with a writer friend of mine, a newspaper

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reporter actually for the business press. He works for a

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big conglomerate here in the US, and showed him a

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few of these over lunch, and he really liked him

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and said, man, I think these are good. This could

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be a weekly column. I think your friends are right.

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And I said, ask Steve, I don't know if I

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want to do that, but I did give him permission

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to pitch his editor. He said he wanted to do that,

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and so I said, sure, why not. And by that

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time I probably had twenty or thirty that I had distributed,

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and he pitched his editors. They got back to him

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and said, hey, tell your friend, these are really good.

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The problem is we are not an op ed newspaper.

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We are fact based business weekly reporting on local and

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regional businesses in a variety of markets around the US,

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and this doesn't have a place for us, more or

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less an op ed advice column. So but they followed

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that was saying, tell your friend it ought to be

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a book, you know, if he had enough of these,

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it could be a book. And so he shared that

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with me over another lunch and I said, no, that's

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never going to happen, And through a very twisted, winding

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road with him and a few other people, we actually

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ended up submitting it through him and with him to

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some publishers that he knew, and I developed a couple

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on my own and loan behold, one of them got

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back and said, yeah, well you want to do this thing,

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when are you going to have the rest of it done?

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And that became a sprint because the the previous whatever

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it was, seven years or so, had been casual writing, dabbling,

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playing with ideas, and now it was gee, when are

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you going to have this done? And so I submitted

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a final manuscript to them in January of twenty twenty three.

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We spend most of that year with edits and everything

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else that goes on, as you know, and it got

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published late in twenty twenty three, and here we are today,

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So here you are.

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And what's the name. What's the name of the book.

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What's the name of the name.

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Of the book is the Business of Relation and the

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subtitle is using the wisdom of great executive to create

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thriving personal connections. But if nobody remembers all of that,

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it's simply the Business of Relationships, and it's on Amazon.

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Well, and you know what I find interesting, and you

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you kind of alluded to it. I've done a little

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bit of consulting in my life, and what I found

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interesting was that as I was working with very small

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business owners, not at year level, but as I was

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working with small business owners, oftentimes it was their life

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that was affecting their business, and as we created business protocols,

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it naturally flowed into their life protocols. And so I'm

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not sure that you can separate the two. And you

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kind of alluded to the fact that, you know, here

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they are talking about business, and yet if you apply

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it to personal all of a sudden, there's incredible, incredible

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wisdom in what they say. And what really motivated you

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about relationships? What is the situation today that actually said

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to you? You know what, I'm going to use these quotes,

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but I'm going to use these quotes that focus on relationships.

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Well, I think for me it was a relatively easy choice,

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because relationships are important to me and should be important

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to all of us, you know, whether that is a

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fausal relationship, a sibling relationship, family relationship, colleagues, friend, et cetera.

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I think having a talent for building bridges rather than

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burning them is something that we all need more of today.

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And I started to encounter Doug some statistics that are

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just shocking to you know, when you say that here

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in America, for instance, you know, this is a seven

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point eight almost eight trillion dollar problem in business with

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failed relationships, because it impacts productivity, it impacts longevity on

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the job. You know, employees that are that are under

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stress in their relationships are sixty two percent I think

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it was sixty two percent more likely to quit abruptly.

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You know, we have terms like workplace ghosting, bare minimum, mondays,

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quiet quitting. All of those things excuse me. All of

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those things speak to just failure in our relationships. And

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I think the one that is saddest to me is

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that here in America. You know, and I realized we're

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talking long distance. You're in Thailand, I'm in Cincinnati, Ohio.

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But here in America, in the richest country in the world,

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arguably the most powerful country in history, you know, a

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beacon of democracy at times, you know, sometimes better than others.

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But you know, in this country that has so much

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going for our children are three times more likely to

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grow up in a single parent household than the worldwide average.

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So you think about that for a minute. It's not

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thirty percent more, fifteen percent more, it's three times more likely.

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And I think that speaks to this individualistic society. You

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alluded to some of it in your comments earlier. You know,

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this individualistic I've got mine, hope you get yours mindset

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is damning our children to a situation that is just tragic.

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Well and we as we live politically, at the relationships

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that are going on, it's just horrendous. And I can't

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even imagine how that's going to affect our children now

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ultimately and our grandchildren if that doesn't get handled. And

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it is interesting that this has really become a focus

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I've found with many people and a concern of how

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are we going to repair these relationships, how are we

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going to help these relationships because becomes something of a

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positive nature. And as you say, and I've never heard

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that statistic that they're three times more likely to be

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in a single family home, that's that's horrendous.

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Yeah, yeah, it's just it's just tragic. And I have

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a lot of respect and a lot of regard and

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a lot of hope for the single parent who is

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doing his or her job. The basis that is a

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tough assignment to be both the father and the mother

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and the household, regardless of gender. And I think that

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when you look at something like that, you say, what

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is that mess said? If if a relationship that they

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look at as foundational they want to have, confident, they

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want to enjoy, you will the family unit, what does

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it say to them if those foundational relations become transaction,

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become transition as well? I think that it is not

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a good message to have that child hold for his

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and when when when agencies are trying to place foster

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children and can't find homes for them because the system

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is jammed up? You know, again, these are these are

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victimless or I'm sorry that the child is is a

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victim and not able to arguably do anything about.

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This or her own What do you think cause of

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what's the rit cause of all this?

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I think over time there's probably several things. One of

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the stats that I saw recently was the decline in trusts,

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especially in America. Not only institutional trust, with personal trust

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has declined significant mid seven. In nineteen seventy five, it

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was said by Gallant that about fifty three percent of

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Americans believed that they could trust. That is now thirty two. Wow,

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you have sixty eight percent of our American population saying

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I can't trust another personal I place very little trust.

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And it started institutionally. Certainly it exacerbated with COVID in

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the isolation we felt in and I think the technology

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contributed to it as well. We don't have to trust

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each other as everything is at our fingertiss. We have

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AI to do all the research we wanted to do

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with Amazon to deliver all the things we want. We

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have grub Hub or door dash to deliver all the

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food we could want, and we can isolate. And isolation

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breeds mistrust. It puts people in an echo chamber of

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life like minded folks, and anyone outside that echo chamber

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is frequently not trusted well.

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And it's interesting, is you know I'm on Facebook, and

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I'm on a number of social media sites because of

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the podcast and the reels and so forth, and what

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I find interesting. For instance, even with TikTok, you know,

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I'll be looking at mine and then kind of checking

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things over, and here will be a message and I

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immediately most of the time, will go to AI, as

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you mentioned, and ask the question is this true? And

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I will tell you that at least thirty percent of

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those presentations that I watch are not true. They're downright lies.

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And so yeah, how do you get to a point where,

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if you have the ability really to check things out,

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all of a sudden you realize, you know, what we're

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being lied to on social media? There just isn't the

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truth anymore.

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And how do you bet that you do it through

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through AI? Certainly I do too. You know the proliferation

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of scams that are out there praying on people, But

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I think that speaks to this. We place an awful

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lot of trust in our machinery and very little in

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our and I think that's going to have a long

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term bad impact on all of it. And I think

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it's also the messaging you know that there used to

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be and I don't want to sound like some old person.

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But it used to be that there were certain things

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that you almost took for granted. You know, the government

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may not have been your friend, but it was at

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least in your corner most of the time. You know.

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The school system may not have been the greatest thing

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for us individually over time, but it was consistent and

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it was reliable, you know. And I think some of

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that reliability in the institutions has gone away. And I

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think when our children look at the fact that even

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long term alliances, you know, the relationship of America with NATA,

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relationship of America with Japan and some of the Eastern countries,

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those things are all of a sudden very transactional and

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very much, at least in this political environment, very transitory,

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and very much tied to economic you know. And I

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think when our kids say, well, if you can't get

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along with your ally, with people that have been in

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your corner almost since the Revolutionary War, and certainly it's

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World War two, if you can't get along and have

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a unified worldview with them, what does that tell me

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about my potential to have good personal rooms one on

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one with people. I think we're just sending some awfully

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bad messaging, Doug.

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Well, and it's interesting to me too. You know, I

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always kind of look at the root cause, and it's

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interesting to me. I'm not sure we can discover what

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the root cause is in this, but to see the

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infiltration of a lack of trust, filter of you know,

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false media and political leanings and you know what, I've

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got to be right and you're wrong. And so you

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get that ego in there that is just proliferated to

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the point where people can even have honest discussions in

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many cases, and in many cases people have lost friends

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just over the political issues that are going on. And

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these are good friends that they no longer can be

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in communication with because of that strong ego that says,

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you know what, I'm right and you're wrong. So here's

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what's interesting. You have literally in your book you're kind

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of using the quotes of major business leaders and so forth.

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But I found it interesting is that I was going

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through your book that you also get into religions and

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you get into really going back thousands of years many

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times and looking at the basis of relationships based on

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those foundational instruments. And I'd love for you to share

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with the audience a little bit what you discovered. Obviously,

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you you know, you were with the Jesuits and you

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know wherever you are now, that's fine, But obviously you

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have an extreme interest in the various worldwide religions and philosophies,

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particularly about this topic, and I'd love for you to

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share with the audience kind of what you have discovered

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with that.

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Well. I think what was amazing to me was when

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you look at their scripture, you know, and I chose

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to look at what I would call the seven majors,

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you know, Judaism, Christianity, Buddhism, Taoism, Confusion is law, et cetera.

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I think when you look at their scriptures and their

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and their holy writings, it amazed me to see the

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parallel primacy. You know, relationships are built on qualities like trust, integrity,

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and they're built on perspective and resilience others, and every

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one of those religions said remarkably similar at various times.

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You know that if you look back to the Buddhist

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writings and the data ching, and you look at the

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Old Testament Bible, you know, they have some parallels there

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in terms of the timing of those writings. And it

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was amazing. In different parts of the world, in very

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different in very different historical tradition, it came to relationships,

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they were remarkably similar. In placing this at the nexus

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of good living, you know that you will not have

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a good life without good relation, without communit without whether

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it was Eastern, Western, or anywhere in between, was pretty amajor.

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So I think that was the biggest religion. There was

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not a single major dialect or that that didn't place

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relation to center.

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Well, it's fascinating to me, as you say, I've studied

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a number of them and done the same thing that

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you have, maybe in a little different way, but trying

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to look at and compare the similarities and to look

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at these similarities that exist. But again, as you say,

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that focus on relationships that focus on goodness, on kindness,

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on understanding is just amazing to me that these are

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the basis of most of you know, most of the

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religions and philosophies, and I find that so fascinating. So

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as you wrote your book and as you were looking

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at all of these different quotes, you kind of came

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up with I don't know how many eight, ten different

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areas that really make a relationship I'd love for you

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to kind of talk about each one a little bit

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and talk about why each one is important. And I

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know it starts out with perspective.

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Right right, I would say that, well, first of all,

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there's twelve qualities that have been widely identified. Is fundamental

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to a good personship, not necessarily a romantic, familiar, platonic

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in and out of you know, different different venues and

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so forth. But I think perspective is one of those

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qualities with twelve that gives you a long term piece,

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gives you the ability to say, you know, this is

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a speed bump, This is not amount. It's it's saying

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to the other person that I am taking the long

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view of the relationship, I am moving toward it with

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some sense of permanence, and I and I attach perspectives

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of that. And then you have qualities like trust and

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honest integrity, which are foundational to a relationship. If again

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we talked about this earlier already, but if you can't

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be trusted or you can't trust others, that's going to

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damage or kill. Integrity is the same thing. What do

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you do when nobody's looking? Is the way I would

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characterize integrity and if you are a person who stands

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by what he or she and then does it, that

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to me is integrity, and it doesn't matter if anybody's

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looking or if there are any consequences to it that

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are knows foundational. You know, have you of honest as well?

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That's pretty easy to explain. You know that the recovery

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community calls it rigorous on it. You know that you

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want to be intentional about being taking that care with them,

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then I think you have qualities that are a little

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bit different. And again, when I looked at these twelve,

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I found them in places the Harvard Business found them

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in places at Western School, Event's Journal, Marriage dot Com,

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NBC News. You know, it was a wide array of

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different outlets, if you will, that that all seemed to

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gravitate towards some of these is being foundational. Not one

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site named all twelve, but there was enough commonality there

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that you said, if I had to pick twelve, if

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I wanted to do one a month, so to speak,

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being a business guy, fifty two essays for fifty two

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weeks and put thirteen in each quarter of the book

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and all that stuff, you know, I gravitated to those

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twelve and I think the ones that you can look

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at that are a little bit more not as intuitive,

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would be things like risk can change and maybe priority.

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I think there are other qualities, the qualities of humility

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and commitment, the quality resilient suspect. Those are all foundational qualities.

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And I found it pretty easy to adapt some of

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these quotes into those areas. You know, and I have

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some of my favorites. You can talk about or not,

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but you know, I think there is guidance from the

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if you look at it in the context, not what

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he said, but what could be well.

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And you know what comes to my mind is you

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talk about perspective for instance. In fact, I want to

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talk about perspective and change because I think I think

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The Business of Relationships: Wisdom from the Boardroom to the Heart

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