Dec. 8, 2025

The Business of Relationships: Wisdom from the Boardroom to the Heart

The Business of Relationships: Wisdom from the Boardroom to the Heart
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Tom Hagerty shares how decades of business insight—and a deep study of world religions—led him to uncover 12 timeless qualities for meaningful personal relationships. From corporate turnarounds to personal transformation, this episode bridges business wisdom and human connection. https://thetomhagerty.com

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WEBVTT

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This program is designed to provide general information with regards

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to the subject matters covered. This information is given with

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the understanding that neither the hosts, guests, sponsors, or station

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are engaged in rendering any specific and personal medical, financial,

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legal counseling, professional service, or any advice. You should seek

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the services of competent professionals before applying or trying any

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suggested ideas.

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At the end of the day, it's not about what

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you have or even what you've accomplished. It's about what

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you've done with those accomplishments. It's about who you've lifted up,

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who you've made better. It's about what you've given back

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Thanzel Washington, Welcome to Inspire Vision. Our sole purpose is

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to elevate the lives of others and to inspire you

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to do the same.

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Tom Welcome to the show, Doug.

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I'm very very happy to be here, looking forward to

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this interview, in this dialogue with you today.

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Yeah, I am looking forward to it too. I think

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the whole topic that we're going to talk about is

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so important in today's culture and what's going on. What

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I'd love for you to do though, and I find

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this always interesting. What's your background and how on earth

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did you write this book? What brought you to write

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the book? And you can you name it, let the

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audience know the name of the book, and so forth,

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but also what's the motivation behind it? Where you decided

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to write this book and get into this whole discussion.

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Well, let me deal with the easy part first, the background.

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I am the oldest of ten children born and raised

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in Cincinnati, Ohio. Nine of us are still alive. Seven

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of us live in Cincinnati, so we see each other

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quite frequently. And I was the oldest of those ten.

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So I was the example in many ways good and bad.

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And I was educated by the Jesuits, which if you

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know anything about the Catholic religion, the Jesuits are the intellectctuals.

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They are the writers and speakers and university professors of

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the priesthood, if you will. And I think the greatest

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lesson that the Jesuits taught us and certainly me, is

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critical thinking, you know, knowing not just the fact, but

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the source of the facts, and being able to discern well,

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you know. And so I matriculated from ten years of

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Jesuit education into business. I've been in the advertising and

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marketing field, done everything from pitching clients to in some

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cases writing copy and directing commercials and so forth. I

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got into entrepreneurship, founded a couple of companies. I had

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my own consulting firm for many, many years, and we

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excuse me, we found our way into the corporate turnaround.

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Quite by accident of the years. A colleague of mine

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and his client felt that I could help his company

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that was in deep trouble. And I said, I've never

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done something like this before, and as so often happens,

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they said, but what we know you can. So I

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got into that world and it ended up being probably

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the second major career I had after advertising and marketing,

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because I started getting calls from bankers and lawyers and

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accountants who had clients who were in trouble. And that

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trouble arranged anywhere from tax problems to marketing problems, through

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financial messes and so forth, and so that's where I

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spent probably the majority of my career. Doug and this book,

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sort of diving into the second part of your question,

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I frequently say to people that this is the book

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that was never supposed to be a book. One of

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the passions that I had over the years was collecting

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quotes from leaders, and those could be people in sports,

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people in business obviously, people in politics or religion or science.

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Anything that I found inspirational to me, I would I

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would write it down, predating the days of Google docs

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and so forth. But I probably had a notebook or

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two full of these quotes, and probably about eight or

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nine years ago, I started looking at them in the

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way of could this be instructive in a venue other

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than business? You know, because every one of these quotes

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from the business leaders anyway, was said in the context

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of their business, you know. It was in a shareholder letter,

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it was in an annual report, it was an interview

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of speech they gave, and it was decidedly business. And

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I thought, could they apply elsewhere? And I found that

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many of them could be instructive in personal relationship, And

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I started writing essays that included a little biography of

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the business leader, because many times, you know, to the

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casual observer, they don't know who this person's You know,

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we all know Steve Jobs and Warren Buffett and Bill Gates,

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but we don't know anit Erotic and Carly Freina and

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you know, others like that. So I started writing essays

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and giving them to my three adult children and some friends,

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and somewhere along the line somebody said, we think these

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ought to be an interviewer or a newspaper column rather,

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and I poop pooed that idea. I wasn't interested in it,

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didn't think it had legs. And finally I sat down

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one day with a writer friend of mine, a newspaper

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reporter actually for the business press. He works for a

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big conglomerate here in the US, and showed him a

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few of these over lunch, and he really liked him

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and said, man, I think these are good. This could

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be a weekly column. I think your friends are right.

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And I said, ask Steve, I don't know if I

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want to do that, but I did give him permission

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to pitch his editor. He said he wanted to do that,

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and so I said, sure, why not. And by that

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time I probably had twenty or thirty that I had distributed,

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and he pitched his editors. They got back to him

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and said, hey, tell your friend, these are really good.

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The problem is we are not an op ed newspaper.

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We are fact based business weekly reporting on local and

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regional businesses in a variety of markets around the US,

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and this doesn't have a place for us, more or

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less an op ed advice column. So but they followed

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that was saying, tell your friend it ought to be

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a book, you know, if he had enough of these,

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it could be a book. And so he shared that

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with me over another lunch and I said, no, that's

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never going to happen, And through a very twisted, winding

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road with him and a few other people, we actually

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ended up submitting it through him and with him to

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some publishers that he knew, and I developed a couple

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on my own and loan behold, one of them got

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back and said, yeah, well you want to do this thing,

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when are you going to have the rest of it done?

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And that became a sprint because the the previous whatever

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it was, seven years or so, had been casual writing, dabbling,

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playing with ideas, and now it was gee, when are

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you going to have this done? And so I submitted

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a final manuscript to them in January of twenty twenty three.

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We spend most of that year with edits and everything

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else that goes on, as you know, and it got

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published late in twenty twenty three, and here we are today,

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So here you are.

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And what's the name. What's the name of the book.

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What's the name of the name.

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Of the book is the Business of Relation and the

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subtitle is using the wisdom of great executive to create

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thriving personal connections. But if nobody remembers all of that,

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it's simply the Business of Relationships, and it's on Amazon.

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Well, and you know what I find interesting, and you

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you kind of alluded to it. I've done a little

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bit of consulting in my life, and what I found

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interesting was that as I was working with very small

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business owners, not at year level, but as I was

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working with small business owners, oftentimes it was their life

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that was affecting their business, and as we created business protocols,

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it naturally flowed into their life protocols. And so I'm

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not sure that you can separate the two. And you

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kind of alluded to the fact that, you know, here

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they are talking about business, and yet if you apply

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it to personal all of a sudden, there's incredible, incredible

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wisdom in what they say. And what really motivated you

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about relationships? What is the situation today that actually said

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to you? You know what, I'm going to use these quotes,

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but I'm going to use these quotes that focus on relationships.

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Well, I think for me it was a relatively easy choice,

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because relationships are important to me and should be important

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to all of us, you know, whether that is a

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fausal relationship, a sibling relationship, family relationship, colleagues, friend, et cetera.

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I think having a talent for building bridges rather than

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burning them is something that we all need more of today.

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And I started to encounter Doug some statistics that are

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just shocking to you know, when you say that here

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in America, for instance, you know, this is a seven

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point eight almost eight trillion dollar problem in business with

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failed relationships, because it impacts productivity, it impacts longevity on

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the job. You know, employees that are that are under

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stress in their relationships are sixty two percent I think

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it was sixty two percent more likely to quit abruptly.

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You know, we have terms like workplace ghosting, bare minimum, mondays,

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quiet quitting. All of those things excuse me. All of

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those things speak to just failure in our relationships. And

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I think the one that is saddest to me is

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that here in America. You know, and I realized we're

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talking long distance. You're in Thailand, I'm in Cincinnati, Ohio.

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But here in America, in the richest country in the world,

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arguably the most powerful country in history, you know, a

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beacon of democracy at times, you know, sometimes better than others.

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But you know, in this country that has so much

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going for our children are three times more likely to

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grow up in a single parent household than the worldwide average.

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So you think about that for a minute. It's not

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thirty percent more, fifteen percent more, it's three times more likely.

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And I think that speaks to this individualistic society. You

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alluded to some of it in your comments earlier. You know,

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this individualistic I've got mine, hope you get yours mindset

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is damning our children to a situation that is just tragic.

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Well and we as we live politically, at the relationships

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that are going on, it's just horrendous. And I can't

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even imagine how that's going to affect our children now

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ultimately and our grandchildren if that doesn't get handled. And

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it is interesting that this has really become a focus

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I've found with many people and a concern of how

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are we going to repair these relationships, how are we

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going to help these relationships because becomes something of a

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positive nature. And as you say, and I've never heard

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that statistic that they're three times more likely to be

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in a single family home, that's that's horrendous.

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Yeah, yeah, it's just it's just tragic. And I have

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a lot of respect and a lot of regard and

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a lot of hope for the single parent who is

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doing his or her job. The basis that is a

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tough assignment to be both the father and the mother

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and the household, regardless of gender. And I think that

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when you look at something like that, you say, what

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is that mess said? If if a relationship that they

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look at as foundational they want to have, confident, they

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want to enjoy, you will the family unit, what does

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it say to them if those foundational relations become transaction,

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become transition as well? I think that it is not

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a good message to have that child hold for his

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and when when when agencies are trying to place foster

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children and can't find homes for them because the system

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is jammed up? You know, again, these are these are

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victimless or I'm sorry that the child is is a

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victim and not able to arguably do anything about.

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This or her own What do you think cause of

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what's the rit cause of all this?

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I think over time there's probably several things. One of

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the stats that I saw recently was the decline in trusts,

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especially in America. Not only institutional trust, with personal trust

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has declined significant mid seven. In nineteen seventy five, it

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was said by Gallant that about fifty three percent of

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Americans believed that they could trust. That is now thirty two. Wow,

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you have sixty eight percent of our American population saying

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I can't trust another personal I place very little trust.

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And it started institutionally. Certainly it exacerbated with COVID in

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the isolation we felt in and I think the technology

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contributed to it as well. We don't have to trust

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each other as everything is at our fingertiss. We have

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AI to do all the research we wanted to do

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with Amazon to deliver all the things we want. We

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have grub Hub or door dash to deliver all the

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food we could want, and we can isolate. And isolation

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breeds mistrust. It puts people in an echo chamber of

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life like minded folks, and anyone outside that echo chamber

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is frequently not trusted well.

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And it's interesting, is you know I'm on Facebook, and

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I'm on a number of social media sites because of

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the podcast and the reels and so forth, and what

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I find interesting. For instance, even with TikTok, you know,

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I'll be looking at mine and then kind of checking

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things over, and here will be a message and I

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immediately most of the time, will go to AI, as

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you mentioned, and ask the question is this true? And

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I will tell you that at least thirty percent of

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those presentations that I watch are not true. They're downright lies.

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And so yeah, how do you get to a point where,

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if you have the ability really to check things out,

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all of a sudden you realize, you know, what we're

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being lied to on social media? There just isn't the

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truth anymore.

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And how do you bet that you do it through

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through AI? Certainly I do too. You know the proliferation

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of scams that are out there praying on people, But

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I think that speaks to this. We place an awful

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lot of trust in our machinery and very little in

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our and I think that's going to have a long

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term bad impact on all of it. And I think

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it's also the messaging you know that there used to

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be and I don't want to sound like some old person.

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But it used to be that there were certain things

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that you almost took for granted. You know, the government

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may not have been your friend, but it was at

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least in your corner most of the time. You know.

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The school system may not have been the greatest thing

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for us individually over time, but it was consistent and

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it was reliable, you know. And I think some of

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that reliability in the institutions has gone away. And I

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think when our children look at the fact that even

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long term alliances, you know, the relationship of America with NATA,

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relationship of America with Japan and some of the Eastern countries,

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those things are all of a sudden very transactional and

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very much, at least in this political environment, very transitory,

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and very much tied to economic you know. And I

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think when our kids say, well, if you can't get

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along with your ally, with people that have been in

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your corner almost since the Revolutionary War, and certainly it's

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World War two, if you can't get along and have

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a unified worldview with them, what does that tell me

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about my potential to have good personal rooms one on

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one with people. I think we're just sending some awfully

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bad messaging, Doug.

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Well, and it's interesting to me too. You know, I

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always kind of look at the root cause, and it's

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interesting to me. I'm not sure we can discover what

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the root cause is in this, but to see the

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infiltration of a lack of trust, filter of you know,

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false media and political leanings and you know what, I've

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got to be right and you're wrong. And so you

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get that ego in there that is just proliferated to

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the point where people can even have honest discussions in

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many cases, and in many cases people have lost friends

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just over the political issues that are going on. And

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these are good friends that they no longer can be

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in communication with because of that strong ego that says,

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you know what, I'm right and you're wrong. So here's

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what's interesting. You have literally in your book you're kind

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of using the quotes of major business leaders and so forth.

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But I found it interesting is that I was going

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through your book that you also get into religions and

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you get into really going back thousands of years many

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times and looking at the basis of relationships based on

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those foundational instruments. And I'd love for you to share

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with the audience a little bit what you discovered. Obviously,

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you you know, you were with the Jesuits and you

301
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know wherever you are now, that's fine, But obviously you

302
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have an extreme interest in the various worldwide religions and philosophies,

303
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particularly about this topic, and I'd love for you to

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share with the audience kind of what you have discovered

305
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with that.

306
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Well. I think what was amazing to me was when

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you look at their scripture, you know, and I chose

308
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to look at what I would call the seven majors,

309
00:18:37.759 --> 00:18:42.640
you know, Judaism, Christianity, Buddhism, Taoism, Confusion is law, et cetera.

310
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I think when you look at their scriptures and their

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and their holy writings, it amazed me to see the

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parallel primacy. You know, relationships are built on qualities like trust, integrity,

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and they're built on perspective and resilience others, and every

314
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one of those religions said remarkably similar at various times.

315
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You know that if you look back to the Buddhist

316
00:19:08.359 --> 00:19:10.960
writings and the data ching, and you look at the

317
00:19:11.160 --> 00:19:14.839
Old Testament Bible, you know, they have some parallels there

318
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in terms of the timing of those writings. And it

319
00:19:18.000 --> 00:19:20.480
was amazing. In different parts of the world, in very

320
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different in very different historical tradition, it came to relationships,

321
00:19:25.000 --> 00:19:29.160
they were remarkably similar. In placing this at the nexus

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of good living, you know that you will not have

323
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a good life without good relation, without communit without whether

324
00:19:39.079 --> 00:19:42.319
it was Eastern, Western, or anywhere in between, was pretty amajor.

325
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So I think that was the biggest religion. There was

326
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not a single major dialect or that that didn't place

327
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relation to center.

328
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Well, it's fascinating to me, as you say, I've studied

329
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a number of them and done the same thing that

330
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you have, maybe in a little different way, but trying

331
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to look at and compare the similarities and to look

332
00:20:04.720 --> 00:20:08.400
at these similarities that exist. But again, as you say,

333
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that focus on relationships that focus on goodness, on kindness,

334
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on understanding is just amazing to me that these are

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the basis of most of you know, most of the

336
00:20:20.000 --> 00:20:24.720
religions and philosophies, and I find that so fascinating. So

337
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as you wrote your book and as you were looking

338
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at all of these different quotes, you kind of came

339
00:20:30.640 --> 00:20:33.000
up with I don't know how many eight, ten different

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areas that really make a relationship I'd love for you

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to kind of talk about each one a little bit

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and talk about why each one is important. And I

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know it starts out with perspective.

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Right right, I would say that, well, first of all,

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there's twelve qualities that have been widely identified. Is fundamental

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to a good personship, not necessarily a romantic, familiar, platonic

347
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in and out of you know, different different venues and

348
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so forth. But I think perspective is one of those

349
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qualities with twelve that gives you a long term piece,

350
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gives you the ability to say, you know, this is

351
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a speed bump, This is not amount. It's it's saying

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to the other person that I am taking the long

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view of the relationship, I am moving toward it with

354
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some sense of permanence, and I and I attach perspectives

355
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of that. And then you have qualities like trust and

356
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honest integrity, which are foundational to a relationship. If again

357
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we talked about this earlier already, but if you can't

358
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be trusted or you can't trust others, that's going to

359
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damage or kill. Integrity is the same thing. What do

360
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you do when nobody's looking? Is the way I would

361
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characterize integrity and if you are a person who stands

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by what he or she and then does it, that

363
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to me is integrity, and it doesn't matter if anybody's

364
00:21:54.680 --> 00:21:57.039
looking or if there are any consequences to it that

365
00:21:57.119 --> 00:22:01.160
are knows foundational. You know, have you of honest as well?

366
00:22:01.519 --> 00:22:05.599
That's pretty easy to explain. You know that the recovery

367
00:22:05.599 --> 00:22:08.359
community calls it rigorous on it. You know that you

368
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want to be intentional about being taking that care with them,

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then I think you have qualities that are a little

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bit different. And again, when I looked at these twelve,

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I found them in places the Harvard Business found them

372
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in places at Western School, Event's Journal, Marriage dot Com,

373
00:22:26.759 --> 00:22:30.240
NBC News. You know, it was a wide array of

374
00:22:30.279 --> 00:22:34.039
different outlets, if you will, that that all seemed to

375
00:22:34.079 --> 00:22:37.480
gravitate towards some of these is being foundational. Not one

376
00:22:37.640 --> 00:22:41.400
site named all twelve, but there was enough commonality there

377
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that you said, if I had to pick twelve, if

378
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I wanted to do one a month, so to speak,

379
00:22:45.680 --> 00:22:48.519
being a business guy, fifty two essays for fifty two

380
00:22:48.559 --> 00:22:51.839
weeks and put thirteen in each quarter of the book

381
00:22:51.960 --> 00:22:56.119
and all that stuff, you know, I gravitated to those

382
00:22:56.119 --> 00:22:58.559
twelve and I think the ones that you can look

383
00:22:58.599 --> 00:23:03.400
at that are a little bit more not as intuitive,

384
00:23:03.680 --> 00:23:07.160
would be things like risk can change and maybe priority.

385
00:23:07.559 --> 00:23:10.799
I think there are other qualities, the qualities of humility

386
00:23:10.880 --> 00:23:16.880
and commitment, the quality resilient suspect. Those are all foundational qualities.

387
00:23:16.920 --> 00:23:21.720
And I found it pretty easy to adapt some of

388
00:23:21.720 --> 00:23:24.480
these quotes into those areas. You know, and I have

389
00:23:24.559 --> 00:23:26.759
some of my favorites. You can talk about or not,

390
00:23:27.000 --> 00:23:30.359
but you know, I think there is guidance from the

391
00:23:30.640 --> 00:23:33.640
if you look at it in the context, not what

392
00:23:33.839 --> 00:23:36.599
he said, but what could be well.

393
00:23:36.680 --> 00:23:38.759
And you know what comes to my mind is you

394
00:23:38.799 --> 00:23:41.400
talk about perspective for instance. In fact, I want to

395
00:23:41.400 --> 00:23:44.799
talk about perspective and change because I think I think

396
00:23:44.880 --> 00:23:48.599
those two are so interrelated. You know, you talk about perspective,

397
00:23:49.000 --> 00:23:51.680
but the reality is when we talk and I love

398
00:23:51.720 --> 00:23:56.640
the word perception. You know, an event occurs and we

399
00:23:56.799 --> 00:24:01.480
perceive that event based on our own personal beliefs that

400
00:24:01.559 --> 00:24:04.960
have been created since childhood. And some of them are

401
00:24:05.519 --> 00:24:08.400
what we would say real and true, and others have

402
00:24:08.480 --> 00:24:12.000
been those imprints that have come from our parents, our religion,

403
00:24:12.039 --> 00:24:16.759
our society, our school, even our DNA. And how do

404
00:24:16.799 --> 00:24:20.680
you help someone to start to develop a true and

405
00:24:20.880 --> 00:24:26.880
honest perspective rather than a perception that may in fact

406
00:24:26.960 --> 00:24:31.359
be affected by all of that, including the fact that

407
00:24:31.440 --> 00:24:35.480
even now with everything that's going on with technology and

408
00:24:35.519 --> 00:24:38.119
so forth, if you get in and look at the news,

409
00:24:38.160 --> 00:24:40.319
or if you get in and they're looking at anything

410
00:24:40.559 --> 00:24:44.240
social media wise based on AI, they have figured out

411
00:24:44.240 --> 00:24:46.720
where your interests are and they keep giving you all

412
00:24:46.759 --> 00:24:50.240
of that information when in fact it may not be

413
00:24:50.960 --> 00:24:54.559
true perspective. So how do you help people to get

414
00:24:54.599 --> 00:24:59.880
to the point where they can actually develop a true perspective?

415
00:25:00.400 --> 00:25:04.400
That's question number one. Then where change comes into place

416
00:25:04.720 --> 00:25:08.599
is being able to say, you know what, I've been

417
00:25:08.640 --> 00:25:11.559
wrong and I need to change my way of thinking,

418
00:25:11.640 --> 00:25:14.039
I need to change my way of behavior whatever that

419
00:25:14.160 --> 00:25:17.039
happens to be. And change, I think is one of

420
00:25:17.119 --> 00:25:21.400
the greatest difficulties that we experienced in our life because

421
00:25:21.440 --> 00:25:24.119
of our egos and just because of things in general.

422
00:25:24.240 --> 00:25:27.880
So how do you work with perspective with people and

423
00:25:27.960 --> 00:25:30.119
how do you work with them being able then to

424
00:25:30.160 --> 00:25:31.839
have the courage to make that change.

425
00:25:31.920 --> 00:25:36.799
Well, I think for me, perspective goes back to what

426
00:25:36.960 --> 00:25:41.039
is the long term vision or long term value that

427
00:25:41.119 --> 00:25:44.759
you are placing onto relationship, whether that is with your spouse,

428
00:25:44.839 --> 00:25:47.880
your child, a colleague, a friend, a golf partner. What

429
00:25:48.119 --> 00:25:51.000
value do you place on what vision you have for it?

430
00:25:51.039 --> 00:25:54.599
I think people have to ask themselves that question, because

431
00:25:54.640 --> 00:25:57.759
if they do and they answer it in terms of

432
00:25:57.880 --> 00:26:01.240
I place great value on this for the future, that

433
00:26:01.880 --> 00:26:06.759
our friendship or our marital relationship, my relationship with my

434
00:26:06.839 --> 00:26:11.279
sibling is going to be asistent and good accelerating over

435
00:26:11.319 --> 00:26:14.359
the next five, ten, fifteen years. If you have that

436
00:26:14.480 --> 00:26:17.359
kind of a vision and a value on the relationship,

437
00:26:17.680 --> 00:26:20.799
then I think you will do the things necessary and

438
00:26:21.640 --> 00:26:24.880
you know, to accelerate that. I also look at it

439
00:26:24.920 --> 00:26:28.000
in terms of what the Stoics always said and their

440
00:26:28.119 --> 00:26:32.359
favorite philosophy of mine among some others. The Stoics always

441
00:26:32.359 --> 00:26:35.359
said that you can't control the circum you can only

442
00:26:35.400 --> 00:26:38.400
control the response. And I think if people had a

443
00:26:38.440 --> 00:26:42.559
bit more of that mindset, we would all be what

444
00:26:42.680 --> 00:26:45.920
is my racy in terms of again the value I

445
00:26:46.000 --> 00:26:49.279
place on a vision. So I think if we look

446
00:26:49.319 --> 00:26:51.839
at it that way and unpack it a little bit,

447
00:26:51.920 --> 00:26:54.839
say I am in this for the long haul. What

448
00:26:55.240 --> 00:26:58.799
is the impact of this? You know, the people say

449
00:26:58.839 --> 00:27:01.359
the ten ten rule and ten ten rule. You know,

450
00:27:02.279 --> 00:27:04.880
I talk about that a little bit with some people

451
00:27:04.920 --> 00:27:08.640
that I speak to about perspective. What is the impact

452
00:27:08.680 --> 00:27:11.599
of what just happened in ten minutes? What is the

453
00:27:11.640 --> 00:27:15.440
impact of this in ten days? What is in impact

454
00:27:15.440 --> 00:27:19.000
of the ten? And very frequently, you know, if you

455
00:27:19.039 --> 00:27:21.319
look at ten ten, ten, and you can put anything

456
00:27:21.359 --> 00:27:25.319
on it, you know, minutes, hours, days, you know, weeks, months, years,

457
00:27:25.400 --> 00:27:28.279
whatever you want to do. But a lot of times

458
00:27:28.319 --> 00:27:31.119
if you get people talking about and saying, well, understand,

459
00:27:31.160 --> 00:27:33.839
you're really mad at your wife over the fact they

460
00:27:33.960 --> 00:27:37.880
spent X number of dollars on a frivolist purchase. It's frivolist.

461
00:27:38.039 --> 00:27:40.400
What's the impact of that going to be ten days? Oh,

462
00:27:40.440 --> 00:27:43.119
it won't be anything at all. I probably will forget

463
00:27:43.160 --> 00:27:46.200
about it. What about ten weeks? What about ten years?

464
00:27:46.240 --> 00:27:47.920
So a lot of times when you put it in

465
00:27:48.000 --> 00:27:51.519
that context, I think it helps perspective as well, controlling

466
00:27:51.599 --> 00:27:54.359
response again going back to the value.

467
00:27:54.720 --> 00:27:58.960
Well, and as you look at that perspective and for instance,

468
00:27:59.000 --> 00:28:02.079
a relationship, and if your perspective is this, I want

469
00:28:02.119 --> 00:28:04.880
this to last, I want this to be good, then

470
00:28:04.960 --> 00:28:08.640
comes the necessity of saying, okay, what do I have

471
00:28:08.759 --> 00:28:12.160
to change. What do I have to do to contribute

472
00:28:12.279 --> 00:28:15.839
to to help this to become a good relationship and

473
00:28:15.920 --> 00:28:19.640
also what is needed from the other individual for this

474
00:28:19.839 --> 00:28:23.920
to become a good relationship and a long lasting relationship.

475
00:28:24.079 --> 00:28:25.079
How do you address that?

476
00:28:25.599 --> 00:28:28.599
Well? You you you gave me an in there. Uh,

477
00:28:28.640 --> 00:28:30.799
And I want to talk about change a little bit,

478
00:28:30.839 --> 00:28:33.079
but I want to dive back into perspective just for

479
00:28:33.119 --> 00:28:35.519
a minute, because I think we can. We can. I

480
00:28:35.559 --> 00:28:38.079
can offer you two quotes from the book and two

481
00:28:38.160 --> 00:28:41.400
business leaders that are that are widely acknowledged is as

482
00:28:41.480 --> 00:28:44.519
people that just about everyone respects. The first one is

483
00:28:44.519 --> 00:28:47.759
Steve Jobs. Okay, the founder of Apple, in and out

484
00:28:47.799 --> 00:28:49.799
of Apple as we know, you know, with the with

485
00:28:49.920 --> 00:28:54.039
the John Scully transition. He walks away from Apple, he

486
00:28:54.079 --> 00:28:57.359
founds Pixar, he founds next comput he sells that back

487
00:28:57.400 --> 00:28:59.960
to Apple, he becomes the new CEO, and from there

488
00:29:00.559 --> 00:29:03.720
it's that great run of success with iPhone and iPad

489
00:29:03.880 --> 00:29:07.119
and and all of that. But Steve Jobs said something,

490
00:29:07.519 --> 00:29:09.440
and this was in a speech in two thousand and

491
00:29:09.519 --> 00:29:12.640
five to the graduating class of Stanford University, and it

492
00:29:12.720 --> 00:29:15.880
was post cancer for him. He had survived that first

493
00:29:15.880 --> 00:29:19.279
Scare eventually died of cancer as well. In in two

494
00:29:19.319 --> 00:29:21.680
thousand and five, he gave this speech to the Stanford

495
00:29:21.720 --> 00:29:25.559
graduating class and he said, remembering that I'll be dead

496
00:29:26.240 --> 00:29:28.960
is one of the biggest tools I used to make

497
00:29:29.039 --> 00:29:33.279
major and that talked to me powerfully about perspective because

498
00:29:33.400 --> 00:29:36.640
it talks about the fact the short time that we're

499
00:29:36.680 --> 00:29:42.240
here is not as significant as we think it in

500
00:29:42.279 --> 00:29:44.839
the history of the You know that all of us

501
00:29:45.039 --> 00:29:48.519
are going to fall victim to being remembered by very

502
00:29:48.519 --> 00:29:50.799
few people for a short period of time. And I

503
00:29:50.839 --> 00:29:54.559
think Jobs captured that in talking and that spoke to

504
00:29:54.559 --> 00:29:57.359
me powerfully. Respective. The one that speaks to me about

505
00:29:57.440 --> 00:30:00.240
change came from a speech that Jack Welch gave to

506
00:30:00.359 --> 00:30:03.240
his business at General Electric. And he was a pretty

507
00:30:03.279 --> 00:30:06.039
new CEO, and Jack was a tough guy, and not

508
00:30:06.240 --> 00:30:10.160
everybody liked what he did, you know, but the fact

509
00:30:10.279 --> 00:30:13.960
is he tripled shareholder value. He did two hundred acquisitions,

510
00:30:13.960 --> 00:30:18.319
he diversified into many different and made this lumbering industrial

511
00:30:18.480 --> 00:30:21.880
giant more nimble in his twenty years. And Jack gave

512
00:30:21.920 --> 00:30:24.720
a speech to these business with the heads of GE

513
00:30:24.799 --> 00:30:27.759
Finance and GE Aerospace and GE Metal and all that,

514
00:30:28.079 --> 00:30:30.440
and he said to them, he said, if you are

515
00:30:30.440 --> 00:30:34.119
not number one or number two in your marketplace, I

516
00:30:34.160 --> 00:30:37.799
will fit you, close you, or sell you. So change

517
00:30:37.799 --> 00:30:41.279
before you have to. And those five words. I've used

518
00:30:41.279 --> 00:30:44.359
that in many different contexts. Change before you have to,

519
00:30:44.440 --> 00:30:47.440
But in the context of a relationship, change before you

520
00:30:47.519 --> 00:30:50.720
have to the financial irresponsibility that's going to wreck your

521
00:30:50.960 --> 00:30:54.079
change before you have to a passive aggressive nature of

522
00:30:54.279 --> 00:30:58.519
kids that is not contributing good relationships. Change before you

523
00:30:58.599 --> 00:31:01.319
have to your bad temperature, change before you have to

524
00:31:01.440 --> 00:31:05.279
the budding addiction. I think those are really powerful words

525
00:31:05.480 --> 00:31:08.960
from from a guy who clearly didn't say them in

526
00:31:09.039 --> 00:31:13.160
the context of a relationship. He was warning his business

527
00:31:13.240 --> 00:31:15.880
leaders that you're going to be fixed, closed, or sold

528
00:31:16.319 --> 00:31:18.880
unless you are number one or number two, So get

529
00:31:18.880 --> 00:31:22.759
on the stick. So I think those two when you

530
00:31:22.799 --> 00:31:25.839
talk about perspective and you talk about change, I can't

531
00:31:25.920 --> 00:31:29.599
think of too many quotes. It would be better guidance

532
00:31:29.759 --> 00:31:31.200
relationship than they're respected.

533
00:31:31.480 --> 00:31:35.400
Yeah, and I love I love the quote change before

534
00:31:35.880 --> 00:31:39.240
you have to. And again I think it goes to

535
00:31:39.960 --> 00:31:41.960
I think it goes to the mindset of all of

536
00:31:42.000 --> 00:31:46.079
us is if we are in any relationship that we

537
00:31:46.200 --> 00:31:50.079
want to have continue, we really need to look at

538
00:31:50.359 --> 00:31:53.160
what do I need to change? You know, so often

539
00:31:53.319 --> 00:31:56.119
we tend to blame everybody else, but we never take

540
00:31:56.119 --> 00:31:59.640
the responsibility to say, what do I need to change

541
00:32:00.079 --> 00:32:02.759
to make this relationship better? And when we do that

542
00:32:03.359 --> 00:32:07.640
and start to do that transformational, introspective work, that makes

543
00:32:07.640 --> 00:32:09.240
a big change. And I know one of the things

544
00:32:09.279 --> 00:32:13.240
you talk about is that transformation wisdom. I'd love for

545
00:32:13.279 --> 00:32:15.400
you to share with the audience what you mean by that,

546
00:32:15.480 --> 00:32:19.240
What is transformative wisdom and how does that apply in

547
00:32:19.279 --> 00:32:22.000
our lives as we want to develop these relationships.

548
00:32:22.359 --> 00:32:26.759
Well, I think transformative wisdom to me would always be

549
00:32:26.960 --> 00:32:29.119
what did I do with it? You know? I mean,

550
00:32:29.359 --> 00:32:31.599
you know, isn't there an old saying out there that

551
00:32:32.440 --> 00:32:39.160
knowledge without action is wasteful and action without knowledge is foolish.

552
00:32:39.279 --> 00:32:42.640
I think that's somewhere in one of the Eastern texts

553
00:32:42.680 --> 00:32:45.359
that I read. But you know, I think that's a

554
00:32:45.400 --> 00:32:50.359
good little mantra to have, is that if you have

555
00:32:50.559 --> 00:32:54.160
wisdom and you've acquired it because of the people you're with,

556
00:32:54.400 --> 00:32:59.559
because of what you believe taught, that's one thing. It's great.

557
00:32:59.599 --> 00:33:01.680
There's a lot of smart people, but what did you

558
00:33:01.759 --> 00:33:04.480
actually do with it? How did it how did it

559
00:33:04.680 --> 00:33:07.319
make a difference in your life and the lives that

560
00:33:07.319 --> 00:33:10.079
will around you? And I think, you know, it just

561
00:33:10.119 --> 00:33:11.960
came to me as we were talking here, But I

562
00:33:12.000 --> 00:33:15.200
think Bill Gates is another quote that I had in

563
00:33:15.240 --> 00:33:19.440
my in my chapter on and Gates said success is

564
00:33:19.480 --> 00:33:24.200
a lousy teacher because it seduces smart people into thinking

565
00:33:24.279 --> 00:33:26.880
they can't And when you think about that, that is

566
00:33:27.240 --> 00:33:30.079
that is part of this stew if you will, in

567
00:33:30.160 --> 00:33:33.319
and around transformative wisdom. He's saying that, you know, just

568
00:33:33.359 --> 00:33:37.279
because you succeeded here or there doesn't mean that you

569
00:33:37.319 --> 00:33:40.319
can put things on autopilot. You know, don't don't be

570
00:33:40.359 --> 00:33:43.119
seduced by the fact that you can't lose just because

571
00:33:43.119 --> 00:33:46.880
you've built three companies, you have a seven handicap, you're

572
00:33:46.960 --> 00:33:51.319
driving a Ferrari, and guess what your life stinks. You know,

573
00:33:51.440 --> 00:33:54.680
your relationships with your kids stink, Your relationship your wife

574
00:33:54.839 --> 00:33:58.559
is very transactional, et cetera, et cetera. You don't have

575
00:33:58.599 --> 00:34:00.559
a lot of friends, you have a lot of quaintances.

576
00:34:00.640 --> 00:34:04.759
You know that that seduction of success really traps a

577
00:34:04.759 --> 00:34:07.839
lot of It trapped me certainly for a while continues

578
00:34:07.880 --> 00:34:08.880
to challenge.

579
00:34:08.679 --> 00:34:12.920
Well, and I love what you said about wisdom and action.

580
00:34:13.440 --> 00:34:14.840
And I love that.

581
00:34:14.880 --> 00:34:18.079
Quote because the reality is is, yes, I think all

582
00:34:18.119 --> 00:34:21.400
of us get ideas, we develop some wisdom about something,

583
00:34:21.440 --> 00:34:23.880
but unless we're willing to take the next step and

584
00:34:23.960 --> 00:34:28.519
do something about it, nothing happens. Now, what would you say,

585
00:34:28.519 --> 00:34:31.760
how could that apply to the day's culture in the US?

586
00:34:32.239 --> 00:34:36.440
Boy, that's a tall order. Where do we start? How

587
00:34:36.519 --> 00:34:37.480
much time do we hear?

588
00:34:39.320 --> 00:34:39.840
Not much?

589
00:34:41.920 --> 00:34:44.920
I think here in the US, the biggest challenge is

590
00:34:45.000 --> 00:34:50.440
that we are exceedingly lonely and we are definitely excessive

591
00:34:50.480 --> 00:34:53.679
and are you know? And I think that recipe there

592
00:34:54.039 --> 00:34:57.119
those two things that you would think would be counter

593
00:34:57.199 --> 00:34:59.239
to each other. You know, I don't want to be lonely,

594
00:34:59.320 --> 00:35:02.320
therefore I can be individualistic. The US is saying, no,

595
00:35:02.400 --> 00:35:07.199
we want to be both. We aspire to be individualistic,

596
00:35:07.639 --> 00:35:10.079
and the price of that is loneliness. And that's a

597
00:35:10.280 --> 00:35:12.679
sixty percent of us are now saying in the US

598
00:35:13.079 --> 00:35:15.719
that our constant companion is lowly. And a lot of

599
00:35:15.719 --> 00:35:17.800
that is cultural and a lot of it is technolog

600
00:35:17.960 --> 00:35:21.639
But I think again that to me is one of

601
00:35:21.639 --> 00:35:25.000
the crux issues that we have to grapple is getting

602
00:35:25.199 --> 00:35:28.559
back into getting back into lating, when they're getting back

603
00:35:28.599 --> 00:35:32.880
in clubs, associations and so forth that contribute to society,

604
00:35:32.960 --> 00:35:34.119
that go outside of what.

605
00:35:34.079 --> 00:35:37.719
We are that and get that conversation and communication to

606
00:35:37.800 --> 00:35:40.800
the point where you can say, Doug, this is what

607
00:35:41.280 --> 00:35:44.400
I really feel about this, and I can say, Hey, Tom,

608
00:35:44.440 --> 00:35:47.960
I really understand that. I don't necessarily agree, but let's

609
00:35:48.000 --> 00:35:49.800
talk about that a bit. And all of a sudden,

610
00:35:49.880 --> 00:35:53.599
as you're starting to talk about those things, that relationship

611
00:35:53.679 --> 00:35:56.119
starts to redevelop and as you say, that can only

612
00:35:56.159 --> 00:35:59.119
happen when we're in a community, when we're developing those

613
00:35:59.159 --> 00:36:02.400
communities to get there, and when we're willing to listen

614
00:36:02.880 --> 00:36:05.679
and not necessarily let our ego get in the way

615
00:36:05.719 --> 00:36:06.320
of judgment.

616
00:36:06.920 --> 00:36:08.519
I could not have said it better. I mean, I

617
00:36:08.519 --> 00:36:12.360
think that's one of the characteristics we've lost, is we

618
00:36:12.400 --> 00:36:14.199
all want to speak, but we don't want to and

619
00:36:14.360 --> 00:36:17.880
we don't take the time to really investigate. You know,

620
00:36:18.239 --> 00:36:21.199
you can talk about the political differences or religious different

621
00:36:21.239 --> 00:36:24.760
we have, But where did the i'll call it tenderness

622
00:36:24.760 --> 00:36:27.119
in the question, where where if you and I were

623
00:36:27.159 --> 00:36:31.000
engaging and you were not believing in what I believe.

624
00:36:31.159 --> 00:36:33.679
You know, why don't I say, Doug, can you tell

625
00:36:33.719 --> 00:36:36.360
me a little bit about why you believe that was

626
00:36:36.760 --> 00:36:39.559
part of that belief? So due to some security in

627
00:36:40.440 --> 00:36:44.920
your upbringing, why would you think that people can't be trusted?

628
00:36:45.039 --> 00:36:48.559
You know, and get the other person talking, not to

629
00:36:48.760 --> 00:36:52.519
convince them necessarily to your way, but to clarify the

630
00:36:52.559 --> 00:36:56.800
factors that are causing this. You know, nobody suddenly rallied

631
00:36:56.800 --> 00:36:59.440
around Donald Trump when he came down the escalator in

632
00:36:59.519 --> 00:37:03.079
twenty five team spouting while you spouted off. There was

633
00:37:03.119 --> 00:37:08.199
a deeply disaffected population brewing as an undercurrent, probably since

634
00:37:08.239 --> 00:37:11.039
the early two thousand. He just happened to tap into

635
00:37:11.079 --> 00:37:13.719
that vein. But would it help to talk to people

636
00:37:13.960 --> 00:37:17.679
and say what caused the what? What was it about

637
00:37:17.679 --> 00:37:20.960
American society? Just trying to find out and be educated?

638
00:37:21.000 --> 00:37:24.400
I think with education, as we understand each other better,

639
00:37:24.400 --> 00:37:26.360
it can relate to one another better. You said it

640
00:37:26.360 --> 00:37:29.320
yourself earlier, Yeah, and I think that's the key. Well,

641
00:37:29.719 --> 00:37:32.800
as we close, how do people find your book again? Okay,

642
00:37:33.159 --> 00:37:36.480
they find it on Amazon and it is the business

643
00:37:36.559 --> 00:37:37.480
of relationship.

644
00:37:37.599 --> 00:37:41.320
Great, And what would be your final message to the audience.

645
00:37:41.800 --> 00:37:43.480
Well, I think you stole a little bit of my

646
00:37:43.559 --> 00:37:49.199
thunder earlier, but off sorry about that. I'll possibly put

647
00:37:49.199 --> 00:37:52.039
it differently. If you want a good relationship, okay, I

648
00:37:52.039 --> 00:37:54.920
think I think there's there's two easy ways to do it.

649
00:37:54.960 --> 00:37:58.360
Realize that every problem is a relationship problem. You know,

650
00:37:58.599 --> 00:38:02.159
the CEOs that I spotlighted in the book were masters

651
00:38:02.159 --> 00:38:05.159
at creating good relationships. That's why they're as well paid

652
00:38:05.199 --> 00:38:07.639
as they are because they have to relate well to

653
00:38:07.719 --> 00:38:11.480
shareholders and customer and vendor regulatory aid. So I think

654
00:38:11.800 --> 00:38:16.400
the understanding that always look for the problem in the

655
00:38:16.480 --> 00:38:19.480
relationship before you try to solve. The other thing I

656
00:38:19.480 --> 00:38:21.639
would say is be fearless about looking in the mirror.

657
00:38:21.679 --> 00:38:24.039
If you want a great relationship, look in the mirror

658
00:38:24.079 --> 00:38:27.280
and say where's it breaking down? Because of again the

659
00:38:27.320 --> 00:38:31.280
recovery community as a saying that they I believe, they

660
00:38:31.320 --> 00:38:34.320
say keep your own side of the street. When you

661
00:38:34.360 --> 00:38:36.679
look in the mirror, you make sure that your side

662
00:38:36.679 --> 00:38:39.000
of the where do I need to where do where

663
00:38:39.000 --> 00:38:41.880
do I need? A greater or a greater trust or

664
00:38:42.320 --> 00:38:45.760
a more resilience as circumstanced so that it doesn't become

665
00:38:46.119 --> 00:38:47.400
again the speed bump.

666
00:38:48.440 --> 00:38:51.280
Well, Tom, thanks so much I really appreciate and I

667
00:38:51.320 --> 00:38:54.599
find it fascinating that you've been able to get all

668
00:38:54.639 --> 00:38:57.840
of these quotes, and again, you know, from people who

669
00:38:57.880 --> 00:39:01.960
have been so successful in business, and yet their quotes

670
00:39:02.159 --> 00:39:05.360
are so applicable in our everyday life and in our

671
00:39:05.400 --> 00:39:06.679
everyday relationships.

672
00:39:07.079 --> 00:39:09.599
Well, I'll close with one that's a favorite because we

673
00:39:09.639 --> 00:39:14.000
didn't mention any females in dialogue. But Cheryl Sandberg, who

674
00:39:14.119 --> 00:39:18.000
was you know, Google and Facebook fame and so forth,

675
00:39:18.280 --> 00:39:21.320
had some unfortunate circumstances, and the largest of which was

676
00:39:21.320 --> 00:39:24.800
losing her husband while they were on vacation. But Cheryl

677
00:39:24.840 --> 00:39:28.239
Sandberg said, each one of us is more than those

678
00:39:28.320 --> 00:39:31.400
things we've ever done. That spoke to me about resilience.

679
00:39:31.679 --> 00:39:33.480
But you could also go back to the beginning of

680
00:39:33.480 --> 00:39:36.159
the book with perspective, and today maybe that's a perspective

681
00:39:36.199 --> 00:39:38.559
as well. Each one of us, not the ones who

682
00:39:38.559 --> 00:39:40.400
pray the most, not the ones who give the most

683
00:39:40.400 --> 00:39:43.840
money to their college, not the ones who smile the most,

684
00:39:44.400 --> 00:39:48.119
you know at Christmas parties, It is each one of

685
00:39:48.159 --> 00:39:51.320
them is more than the thing with the guidepostor well.

686
00:39:51.119 --> 00:39:54.400
I appreciate that. Tom, thanks so much. I really appreciate

687
00:39:54.639 --> 00:39:59.079
your input and your contribution. I think that's fantastic.

688
00:40:00.000 --> 00:40:03.079
Thank you very much for your time and your wisdom today.

689
00:40:03.159 --> 00:40:06.039
It was a wonderful discussion. Great way to start today

690
00:40:06.079 --> 00:40:07.360
in Cincinnati, Ohio.

691
00:40:07.559 --> 00:40:10.079
Oh yeah, and folks, thanks for listening and I hope

692
00:40:10.119 --> 00:40:12.519
you've enjoyed it and look forward to having you join

693
00:40:12.639 --> 00:40:15.840
us again soon. So this is doctor Dux saying I'm

694
00:40:15.840 --> 00:40:20.039
a stay