The Art of Conscious Communication

0:01 This program is designed to provide general information with regards to the subject matters covered. This information is given with the understanding that neither the hosts, guests, sponsors, or station are engaged in rendering any specific and personal medical, financial, legal counseling, professional service, or any advice. You should seek the services of competent professionals before applying or trying any suggested ideas. At the end of the day, it's not about what you have or even what you've accomplished. It's about what you've done with those accomplishments. It's about who you've lifted up, who you've made better. It's about what you've given back. Denzel Washington, Welcome to Inspire Vision. Our sole purpose is to elevate the lives of others and to inspire you to do the same. Jim Fuller, Welcome to the show. How are you hey, doctor dot Com? Great?

0:58 Thank you very much and thank you for having me on your show. Oh I'm really grateful to have you on this show. So where are you coming from? Where are you at? I'm down on Bell's Beach, Australia. Anyone who knows surfing or the Patrick Swayze movie Point Break will know Bell's Beach. It's a famous surfing beach. That's my local beach. It's on the southeastern coast of Australia. Oh wonderful, I love that. Well. You've led quite a life, haven't you. There's something that I think, at least as I think of my son's, every one of them would just love to live the life that it seems you've been able to live. Can you share with the audience, you know, your background and also just the story of how did you get to the point of your doing what you're doing now and writing your book and so forth. Yeah. Absolutely, you know it's funny with the benefit of hindsight, you know, and that retrospective look back over your life, it's like, oh wow, I could never have planned that, you know, I could never have dreamed that up. It really just came about. I mean, look pretty standard upbringing, suburban Australia, middle class. Nothing really much to remark on there, apart from the things that we all go through at some point in our lives, you know, death and grief and joys and tribulations and a loving family, etc. All of that kind of stuff. But as soon as I finished high school, I could not wait to travel the world. I knew there was a big,

2:30 wide world out there. I was born overseas, my father was from England, grew up in Australia, and we traveled a few times around the world when I was a kid, so I knew there was this big, wide world out there, and I just couldn't wait to go and see it. So I spent most of the end of my teenage years and all through my twenties and early thirties just trying to go and experience cultures as vastly different to mine as I could find, and that had me having to earn money along the way. So I ended up doing a whole range of different things to earn money, from being a traditional tribal tattooist to a kindergarten teacher in Taiwan, to a fire dancer to a laborer motorcycle courier, all sorts of things. You know. I would just find a way to earn money wherever I was and then keep traveling. Then jump forward to my early thirties, had fallen in love, got married, became a father, and realized that I didn't have a career nor any qualifications. I had a few books worth of experiences and good stories, but no way of feeding the young people, my kids. So I went and got a job with a travel company, an international travel company, because travel was what I knew, and I spent eight years with them and ended up in senior leadership. So I went from being very alternative, dreadlocked, barefoot, tattooed backpacker and ended up in a suit and tie and running quite a large division of a multinational and incidentally,

4:04 through the corporate pressure to drive net profit growth order on quarter on quarter, which any of your listeners who are in the corporate world understand that pressure, I moved away from my own core values and you did what I thought I needed to do to be successful in that world, but ended up becoming really unhappy. And then in my early forties, I was lucky enough to have what people call a midlife crisis. For me, it was a midlife awakening of sorts. I lost my job, lost my marriage, lost my house, lost everything. I really hit rock bottom. I kept my two sons in a fifty to fifty week on week off arrangement, so I have my two boys, but really had to start all over again. And that's when I started on this current chapter, which has been the last twelve years of my life of building my coaching practice, working as a leadership coach primarily, but then also over the last ten yearsrunning retreats in some of my favorite places around the world, in the Himalaya of northwestern India, in Bali, in the deserts of Australia. So running those retreats, writing books, ted x talks all the bits and pieces that come with someone who's on a mission to try and share a message. So I'm curious about those retweets. Are they mainly business oriented or are they more personal oriented? It's personal personal development for professionals, okay, so it's within the professional context. Business owners come away on this leadership retreat and the content and the models and the implementations that I

5:41 teach and share are completely applicable to going home to your business or your organization in the context of leadership. But at the same time, it's very much about your own personal development because that sits at the core of your ability to you know, to be a good leader. Well. And you know, it's interesting when I was doing some consulting with small businesses, one of the comments that I'd make is, whatever we're going to teach you here in business also is going to apply to life or vice versa. Let's let's figure out what's going on in your life because that's going to be affecting and representing your business. So you know, I'm going to really enjoy talking about your book and literally, you know, the heart of community, the heart of what is it? The heart of conscious communication? And I love that word.

6:30 But I also love I also love what you talked about how you found yourself in a situation where you were not being true to yourself. It was almost a duality of your life. And do you get into that at all as you're working with these people and talking about how do you how do you literally become who you really are rather than who you think you need to be or who the environment or a society or work or or whatever says you need to be. Yeah, yes I do. It's that It's where we start. Actually on the retreats, there's four conversations that I facilitate, and the first one is about it. It starts with you and coming back to your authentic self, rediscovering that. I believe we already know that inherently but maybe not consciously. And a lot of people haven't allowed themselves the time to sit and contemplate who they are, who they choose to be in terms of their character, not in terms of their job title or their relationship title, but what's important to them in terms of who they aspire to be. These are our core values and how that can inform our sense of identity rather than the roles that we play. And then also if for leaders, within the context of leader, we talk about authentic leadership, and I think it's really useful for leaders to understand that they shouldn't try to be more like anybody else. They

8:01 shouldn't try to be more like that leader over there. What they should be actually doing is understanding the best version of themselves and who they aspire to be and be that as a leader. So how deep do you get into this concept of our environment, our perception, our life is literally a representation of those subconscious as well some conscious sub conscious as well as some conscious beliefs and environmental affects and so forth, to where as we start to communicate, we find that sometimes we communicate in a way that's not really us because of those environmental subconscious beliefs and so forth that affect us and also sometimes as we're doing it in a perhaps reactive way, we're really doing it not as who we truly are, but who we have been created to become by our environment, our family. Yeah, I mean I love this. I find this fascinating and more than just fascinating this topic that you've brought up, doctor Doug, I also find it really useful to think about and then to practice in terms of so we've been brainwashed into a sense of who we think we are right largely by our environment and what's been gone on around us and what we've been

9:31 taught and what we've been told, and this brainwashing, they're neural pathways that have fired so many times they create like a neural highway. So there's a reflex thought that happens. This is our biases, our beliefs, our lenses, and these are happening, like you said, largely subconsciously and sometimes consciously, but they're firing of their own accord. What I'm fascinated about is how can we, now, through expanding our awareness and some conscious some volition, some intention, choose some beliefs around self and our relationship with self and the world around us that are more functional, that are less limiting and then run those and consciously brainwash ourselves to rewire ourselves to a more healthy version of sense of self identity, ego, and therefore then a more healthy relationship with the life around us, you know, the other people in our life and the world around us. So yeah, look, I find it fascinating. In my book. I go into it in a lot of detail. In the retreats I serve the room. It depends on who's sitting in the room.

10:43 So I'll bring up a topic and we'll explore the surface level of it, and if it's going to serve the people in the room to go deeper and deeper and deeper, let's go. And if not, then we'll go where we need to go. Well, And you know, you use the word consciousness's mindfulness, and it seems like in today's society, for those that are really delving into that personal development, that self development, that self awareness, that those two words become very important. I know, as I've read different books, for instance, A New World or a New Earth at card totally, I don't know if you've read that. Now he's talking about consciousness, he's talking about ego and how literally we allow the ego to modify our lives rather than truly become conscious or you know, you talk about mindfulness and Buddha talks about you know, part of those eight you know, eight full steps is an eight full path is to reach that area of mindfulness. And let's talk about that a bit because in your book, I know you specifically use the word conscious communication. So what are your thoughts about that and what does it mean to truly become conscious or mindful of what's going on internally within our subconscious mind? And as you say, which I find so interesting, is that we develop these neural pathways based on all of that stuff that's happened in

12:16 our childhood and so forth. And I think sometimes people don't realize that they can change that, that they literally can develop new neural pathways and create an entirely different perception of life and experience a different life by making those changes. But as you say, it really requires consciousness or mindfulness to do that. Care to share some thoughts on that? Yeah, yes, I mean everything that you've just said resonates so well with may I know, and it's not just theory. You know, I've been lucky enough to be to have created the opportunities in my life where for whatever reason, was hitting rock bottom was the main reason where it was necessity I had to rewire because I actually it came from one night. I was in a North American Indian sweat lodge in a men's circle, but we were here in Australia, on First Nations land, special land, spiritual land here and I had really what was a spiritual experience, and it was an awakening experience as well. It was out of body. I was flying around. I was five years old, flying around in the in the ether. But anyway, long story short. From that out of body experience, I came home that night and I had a very very literal dream around my own self healing. And what I learned from that

13:46 dream when I woke up in the morning was that I had been harboring a neural pathway, a belief subconsciously for the first half of my life that I wasn't good enough. Yes, so there was a belief there that I wasn't good enough, I wasn't enough. And whether that translates for people into I'm not smart enough, or I'm not tall enough, or I'm not good looking enough, or I'm not clever or funny any of these insert any part here, and I realized, Wow, if I believe that I'm not good enough, no wonder, I've been interpreting the environment from around me as evidence to match my belief. So I've been attracting people into my life that are showing me that I'm not good enough. If I ever had potential success in front of me, I would sabotage it because I didn't think I deserved it.

14:37 You know, the imposter syndrome that we talk about anyway, That was in my early forties. And then books came my way, as they tend to do. Books just came my way that we're all talking about neuroplasticity in how to rewire the brain, and so I went to work on myself. I went to work on myself, and it took a while. You know, Unfortunately, I don't think there's any quick fix thing. You know, I've been to the Tony Robbins weekends and I've walked on the hot coals. But unless you then go home and do the daily work, you can't create sustainable change. You don't just take the blue pill or the red pill and then all of a sudden have a matrix waking up moment, I don't think. I think you need to do the work, And so I did the work, and I eventually, over time wired and new belief, which is, hey, wow, of course I'm enough. I'm exactly enough. I'm enough to be me, and I shouldn't be more like anybody else because I'm not.

15:35 And I shouldn't have more experience than I've got right now, not yet. I will one day, but right now I should only have the experience that I've got. And when I look back into the past, every mistake I've ever made, apparently I should have made Why because I did, you know? And so it's really coming to this place of radical self acceptance, you know. And that was a liberation for me. Coming to a place of wiring the neurology to a place of radical self love. Self acceptance liberated me from a lot of stuff. So yes to what you were saying, I love it well. And you know what I find interesting is and I've gone through some similar things. I've not had the side of body experiences.

16:21 I keep trying to figure out how to do that without without the drugs, and drugs work as well. I've had it through drugs this well, but I haven't. I haven't been able to do that yet. But what I find interesting is so many people really have this concept of not being good enough and and I'm wondering how much of the environment creates that. You know, I think of original sin from the Christianity part, and you know, they're all taught that original sin. They're born into the world sinful. We have other religions and other situations that come up to where we literally culturally have come to believe that we're just not good enough. And yet, what are your thoughts about who we really are? Now? I don't mean to get into the religious, but maybe the spiritual part of this bit, but who are we really? And how do we help people to understand potentially who they really are, not potentially who they really are, and potentially they can discover that, Wow, the deep stuff. I love talking about the deep stuff.

17:36 And maybe the question should start with what are we? Before who are we? Because who part we get to we get to have something to say about that, you know. And I've been through two identity crises in my life. The first one was really scary in my twenties that because I didn't know what on earth was going on, and that was really disorientating and quite a cathartic experience to go through when I was twenty eight, and then the second one in my early forties, I kind of knew a little bit that the death of the previous ego was an opportunity to re identify, so that was a little bit more it wasn't as disorientating. But who am I? I believe we can curate that, Yes, you're right, But what am I?

18:26 Which is a deeper question, I think, and this sense that we have of so on one level, what am I? Well, I'm a bio mechanical creature being when I look at it in terms of being separate from everything else around me. But that's actually an illusion that we're separate. That I'm a separate creature from everything around me as an illusion because I am actually intrinsically and inseparably a part of the greater system. You know, we're all breathing in and consuming our environment. When you and I are sitting in a room together and someone walks through the room with a bouquet of flowers and we both smell the flowers, we're actually ingesting particles of those flowers, and so we are of the same star dust very literally, and it seems more real to me that we're all connected, and we're all quote unquote one, we're all part of the greatest system. That seems more literally true to me than the illusion that we're separate, which is what our egos would have us believe.

19:27 So what am I? I believe I'm an intrinsic, energetic part of a non physical of a non physical allness that manifests in physical reality in terms of energy spinning fast enough to create the illusion of the physical world. But I believe that we're all part of a non physical energy. And that's my spiritual understanding of things. Yes, and you can ward that as spiritual energy, you can warn that as God, you can you know whatever that happens to be the universe. But I think that's so important to realize is that we truly are of that entity. And it's interesting, as you talk about how when someone brings in flowers and we both smell it, not only do we smell the flowers, we probably look at the flowers, we appreciate it, and so forth. But here's the interesting thing that comes to my mind, and you talked about it a little bit earlier, as we put forth whatever energy we choose to put forth, that energy comes back to us.

20:30 And so it's interesting, as you said, how we can literally create a perception of our lives based on those subconscious beliefs, and literally then it comes back to us. As you were talking about, you know, I'm not good enough, and therefore yourself sabotaged and things came your way to make sure that prove that you're not good enough. So what a wonderful thing to be able to get to the point where you can understand as you and I like the word what you are, whatever and whatever that happens to be in someone's spiritual understanding and you know, awareness, How does someone get to that point?

21:11 How did you get to that point where you finally realized what you were? It was a process of many heroes journeys. We talk about the hero's journey, and it's something that we see this metaphor this story that is replicated in all the great films and the great novels, but also we experience it as humans. And I think there's been many versions of that that I've experienced through my life. And I've always been curious, I've always been introspective I was always very sensitive, and when I was little, part of the environmental indoctrination to me not being good enough was that my father, who came from a different generation, you know, World War two, working class, tough enough, harden up, suck it up, don't cry, you know, be strong generation, and as a sensitive young boy who would cry and feel emotions, etc. He used to tell me, in not so many words, he would say to me that I wasn't good enough. So that's kind of where that came from for me. But I was always sensitive and curious and introspective and also very expressive. I've been writing songs my whole life, songs and poetry, so there was a lot of reflection time. And then all of those travel years through the twenties, I would spend a lot of

22:45 time sitting in deep reflection and contemplation, So that was always there. I've always been very spiritual, very interested in that which we can't prove scientifically. I'm very fascinated by that. There's a lot, a lot that we can't prove, so I do. And I love science, you know, I love science. I studied physics at school and I found it very interesting, and I love science and what it explores and uncovers. But I think that ultimately science can't ever objectively explain the mechanics of the universe because we're stuck within the human perspective. Anyway, that's a bit of a tangent. So I've always been very spiritual and very curious. And then so through the experiences I've had in my life, I've naturally been contemplative about those. And then and then my life went the way it went, and you know, I got lost in doing the best I could do to provide, but I got I did get lost at lost as in, I had to move away from my core values. I felt I was becoming becoming someone that I didn't that it wasn't my authentic self, and I didn't know that this was happening subconsciously.

23:59 But then I started drinking too much alcohol. I was working hard, but I'd get up really early in the morning, work really hard, and then i'd come home and to cope with it all. I had young children, and I'd kind of put them to bed and get on the booze and then get up the next day and do it all over again. And I was partying really hard, and I got sucked into this corporate world that I used to abhor when I was a younger person. I was anti establishment, and I got sucked into this corporate world and I was flying in business class around the world, and I was earning a lot of money and drinking a lot and partying a lot and what you know. And thankfully, thankfully the universe me as in my relationship with the universe, and vice versa, the universe thankfully spat me out of all of that very unceremoniously, you know. And I must have in some way called that in because it's what I needed.

24:56 But I lost my job, lost my marriage, lost the house, you know, and turned around with nothing except a lot of debt and a drinking problem and a couple of young kids. And that was rock bottom for me. And I was like, wow, I really need to sort this out, you know. Well, and I think, you know, it's interesting, I hope for the audience, you know, and we all go through some type of situation, you know, for you, it was rock bottom. Others hopefully they don't have to experience that. But many times, at least as I've been having the opportunity to interview a lot of people, seems like that tends to be the case in many situations where they hit that rock bottom and suddenly that awareness comes in that that's not who they are. They've been playing that duality of life game and that makes it tough. So conscious I want to get into this conscious communication because I think that that becomes so important as we start to develop ourselves and move forward with our consciousness or mindfulness.

26:02 What is the art of conscious communication and how can it affect our relationships in your experience? Perhaps I could start with the most basic definition of the words that are the term conscious communication. So to be more conscious of anything is quite simply to be more aware. So the more conscious we are something, the more aware of it we are. And communication comes from the original words for communication is the Latin word communicatio, which is the noun which means literally a sharing. So communication is not a telling, it's a sharing.

26:42 And the verb communica communicare, which means to make common. So communication is to make common. It's an understanding and this is completely essential to us as a species. There's no way we would have been able to evolve off the savannah planes if we didn't figure out how to work in relationship, how to work in teams, how to work in social groups. That's been the reason we've been able to survive and thrive, and also, sadly to our dysfunction as well, is propagated through communication also, so it's the flip side to everything. But essentially, the quality of our life is directly correlated to the quality of our relationships. Not how many houses you own, or how many cars you drive, or you know, how much money is in the bank.

27:38 That's not the quality of your life. It's the quality of your relationships. And the quality of our relationships is completely contingent on the quality of our communication. Well, you know, it's so interesting because what I find the name I've really had the opportunity and blessing to study communication very deeply, and I totally agree with you that it is the effect of the quality of our relationships. And what I find interesting is we all get so caught up in communicating, you know, And I've heard this story before, and it's true. It's even true of me. You're communicating to me, and as you're communicating to me, I'm trying to think of what I'm going to say next, so I'm not really hearing what you're saying. And truly not really understanding what you're saying. Yeah, but you're in a role of service right now, because this is your show and you're facilitating and you're hosting, and you're doing this in a role of service. You're hoping to facilitate a conversation that might add value to the lives of others. So in that role of service, part of your responsibility is to be thinking about where am I leading this conversation and what will I be asking next. Whereas for me, it's probably a little bit easier because I'm being led by you and I'm being held by you, that it's easier for me in the moments where you're speaking to just completely listen and seek to understand and trust that when it's right that there'll be

29:08 something that I have to share or connect with you on. You know. So it depends on our role. But that's conscious communication. If if we're conscious of our role in the communication itself, if we're more conscious of the other person, then we can be better in our part of that communication, do you know what I mean? So it really depends. Yeah, And you know, being here in Thailand right now, probably the greatest frustration I experienced to the point sometimes it just drives me crazy, is trying to understand and I don't speak Tie, and most ties around here don't speak English, and so we end up using Google Translate. And what I find and what I have found having to do, is when they say something, Google Translator isn't always that great, and all of a sudden it's like, okay, I don't understand. Can you reword that in a different way? And sometimes it takes two to three times to ultimately go okay, now I understand.

30:11 And you know how often does that happen when we're speaking our own language with someone that we really don't seek to understand, and therefore we get a communication and our emotions immediately react to that communication, and that may not be really what they're saying. For instance, with the example with your dad, you know his communication to you, your interpretation of that communication was that you're no good You're not good enough. Okay. It would be interesting to go back as an adult now in time and find out what he really meant and what was the basis what he meant. It was probably more like I love you so much, son, and if you can take my advice, you'll do better in life. Like, I love you so much and I want you to have every chance of a good life. So please take my advice.

31:11 You need to toughen up, You need to man up, you know. So yeah, yeah, one hundred percent when we're yeah, we don't, you know. And it's interesting you mentioned the Google translator because Google in the Search for Yourself mindfulness program. At Google, they developed a communication technique when there's two people who are disagreeing or there's some conflict, person A in person B, and they take terms to speak. Person A says what they're trying to communicate. Person B doesn't speak, just listens. When person A is finished, person B then has the opportunity to repeat back to person A what they heard right, which is quite often not what they meant. And then they and then persone says, oh, yes, you understood that bit, but that bit I did communicate it well enough. What I actually meant was And it's like you said, the three times backwards and forwards until you actually understand what the other person meant. And that's a process that they do at Google. And the other thing that came to mind when you mentioned the Google translator. I love Thailand. By the way, I've spent a lot of time in Thailand. It's my favorite cuisine in the world. Love typhood.

32:20 Anyway, my twenty year old son last year, when he was nineteen, went off to travel around the world. Before he left, he said, Dad, what do I do when I get to a foreign country and they don't speak my language and I don't know where to go? And I said, mate, pull your iPhone out of your pocket and he pulled it out. Look what you've got, dude. When I was traveling around the world, I had a big, heavy, lonely Planet travel guide book that's sat at the bottom of my backpack getting squashed, and we just used to figure it out, you know. Anyway, Well, and so you know, I love what you're talking about. Google literally studied that art of communication and the model that you were explaining, I think came from someone that I studied a little bit earlier than Google. But but what's interesting is how how so often we don't we don't seek to understand, you know, we don't listen and seek to understand. And as you say that that going back and forth without judgment and without emotion and saying, you know what, I'm not sure I understood what you were saying, there, can you explain that a little bit further? And then as you say, repeat back what they said and oh no, no, no, that's not what I meant. How difficult is it to develop that? But once you develop that, and how do how do people learn to develop that type of quality of communication? And once

33:52 they do that, what has been your experience that that does for relationships? So I think how again, it starts with developing self awareness. Usually what gets in the way of seeking to understand is our egos defensive quality. So we have our ego is our sense of identity, who we think we are, and that is quite literally also made up of our ideology, our political beliefs, you know, these deeper core beliefs that we have around right and wrong form a sense of who we think we are. And our ego is a defense mechanism. It's there to keep us safe. So it's fueled by fear and it's very very defensive and therefore closed minded. We're naturally quite closed minded, or at least the ego is. So that's why people find themselves in communication when the other person's talking, there only aren't trying to understand what the other person's saying enough so that they can defend their point of view, and then they're waiting for a gap in the conversation to jump and say, actually, no, it's this, or yes it's that. If I believe the same thing as you, but it's all about me defending what I believe to be true. So I've noticed that over the years of practicing loosening your grip on how you think things should be or how you think things are, just relaxing your grip a little bit and a practice of open mindedness to alternative

35:25 perspectives, of experiencing life in other ways different to yours, and that you don't actually have anything to defend. Your life's not in threat. I mean, if there's a lion coming to eat you, your life's in threat, or if you're in a war zone, your life's threat. But if you're just in a communication with someone in a different team in the organization that you work for, and they've got a different opinion to yours on a problem that you're trying to solve at work, your life's not a threat. So take a breath and let go of the need to defend your point of view. When you relax a little bit on that then you can lean in a bit further and really try and seek to understand. You know, people ask me for practical applications of this. Here's one. Next time you're scrolling through social media and you see a post that is inflammatory to you. So you see a post and the clickbait is working because at the post says something and your immediate triggered reaction is no, that no, I can't believe that. That's just not true. So you have an immediate reaction to this post. Notice that you've just reacted. Put your phone down, pause, close your phone for a second, sit there and contemplate your reaction and your beliefs around that, and then entertain possible alternative perspectives to that thing that you just got triggered by. Just entertain them. I'm not saying you need to change your mind.

37:00 Eventually, you either will or you want, but just the practice of opening your mind to alternative perspectives develops your ability to be open minded. So the next time you're in communication with someone and they say something that you disagree with, rather than getting defensive and waiting to jump in, you might actually be going, oh, I'm curious, how did you come to think that, yeah, And it's interesting when you can do that to the point where as you say, sometimes you actually change your perspective a bit, or other times you may just smile at them and say, you know what, I totally understand where you're coming from. And do I agree with you, No, but guess what I agree to disagree, and I honor the fact that what you believe is what you believe and really being able to say that without any judgment. You know, you talk about ego is it's so amazing as we look what's going on in the world right now and and all all the wars and all of these things going on, it has everything to do with ego. I am right. I have to be right, and what you know, what a blessing and what an understanding to realize that, you know, what we are not our ego and if we can, if we can start to remove that ego. I know that Buddha talks about non self, and you know, and as you've been talking, because I've always tried to

38:31 figure out what's he really talking about there as I've had a chance to study that, and now all of a sudden it kind of hits me. You know, if we really realize that we're a non self. That means that we're not allowing our ego to control our thought process or our lives are a reaction or anything else. That literally we have removed the ego. And once you do that, then it's amazing to me the culture here, and it's fascinating how I've observed personally, how you can say something that is totally opposite of what they believe and they smile and say I understand, and there's no ego or judgment there. Yeah, yeah, Yeah, It's beautiful, isn't it. There's so much in Buddhism. And as I was living for years, living and walking and traveling around India, the more I understood those teachings, the more it just sat with my kind of intuition or my feeling.

39:40 It's hard to explain, but I learned things from Buddhism and say, yeah, I kind of knew that. I kind of felt that in some way already, and it makes sense to me. So I'm not religious. I don't follow any particular religion, as we've already talked about, Dr Doug. I am very spiritual, yes, but if I had to, if I had to align my ways of being to any particular religion, it would most closely be Buddhism for sure. Well, and you know, I'm not a Buddhist either. I just I'm like you, I am so curious that when I get into an environment, I've got to study it, understand it, you know, that old thing. But but what I find and you've hit on it. You know, there's I think there are some common truths.

40:27 And you know, then we talk about the more modern writers and they're literally writing about exactly the same thing that was written thousands of years ago. But all of a sudden it's a new awareness, a new mental discovery, when in reality, you know, it's been there for a long time. So I find that fascinating. And you know, I really love this whole concept of, you know, learning to be conscious, conscious communication and understand. Can you imagine if the majority of people in the world could get to the point that you talk about with that conscious communication and understanding that, what a different world and what a peaceful world we would have. I do imagine it, and I don't know whether it will ever happen, but I do imagine it, and I strive to play my part to try and tip the scales of humanity in that direction. I really do. I'm passionate about it.

41:29 It's why I'm sitting here connecting and conversing with you. It's why I write the books, I run the retreats that I run because I really hope that we can become more conscious in our communication and rather than shouting at each other across the divides of difference, you know, which has been propagated by the algorithmic movement online. You know, where pro vacs and anti vacs are just shouting at each other, or pro life and pro choice, or just shouting at each other, or canceling each other, or all of this animosity which is just such a shame to look at because I don't believe it's actually a true reflection of humanity. You know, I meet more people that are good, kind, nice, caring, humble people who don't want to harm anybody.

42:25 But if you just believed mainstream news or social media, you believe that all the world's out to get each other. Yeah, well, you know, jam as we as we close, what I'd love for you to do is share with the audience in you know, a brief way, what would be the message that you would like to share with them that they remember as they end up closing off this podcast. The message I'd like to share is that if we could take a snapshot in time right now, you are exactly enough. You are exactly enough to be you. You shouldn't be more or less of anything. You are exactly who you're supposed to be in this moment right now. Love it, Jim. This has been a fascinating conversation and I call it a conversation which I really appreciate too. Thanks so much for being on the show. Really appreciate it. I wish I wish I was in Thailand with you, mate. I love Thailand. It'd be nice to pop over and say hi. That would be great. And folks, thanks for listening. I hope you got something out of this. Go get that book and I assume it's on every major Amazon and those type of places where they can get that and allow that to hopefully teach you a little bit more about how to develop conscious communication. Have a wonderful week. We look forward to having you join us again soon. Tim to Etangier has been intent and retired