The Art of Conscious Communication

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This program is designed to provide general
information with regards to the subject matters covered.

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This information is given with the understanding
that neither the hosts, guests,

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sponsors, or station are engaged in
rendering any specific and personal medical, financial,

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legal counseling, professional service, or
any advice. You should seek the

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services of competent professionals before applying or
trying any suggested ideas. At the end

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of the day, it's not about
what you have or even what you've accomplished.

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It's about what you've done with those
accomplishments. It's about who you've lifted

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up, who you've made better.
It's about what you've given back. Denzel

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Washington, Welcome to Inspire Vision.
Our sole purpose is to elevate the lives

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of others and to inspire you to
do the same. Jim Fuller, Welcome

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to the show. How are you
hey, doctor dot Com? Great?

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Thank you very much and thank you
for having me on your show. Oh

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I'm really grateful to have you on
this show. So where are you coming

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from? Where are you at?
I'm down on Bell's Beach, Australia.

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Anyone who knows surfing or the Patrick
Swayze movie Point Break will know Bell's Beach.

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It's a famous surfing beach. That's
my local beach. It's on the

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southeastern coast of Australia. Oh wonderful, I love that. Well. You've

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led quite a life, haven't you. There's something that I think, at

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least as I think of my son's, every one of them would just love

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to live the life that it seems
you've been able to live. Can you

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share with the audience, you know, your background and also just the story

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of how did you get to the
point of your doing what you're doing now

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and writing your book and so forth. Yeah. Absolutely, you know it's

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funny with the benefit of hindsight,
you know, and that retrospective look back

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over your life, it's like,
oh wow, I could never have planned

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that, you know, I could
never have dreamed that up. It really

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just came about. I mean,
look pretty standard upbringing, suburban Australia,

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middle class. Nothing really much to
remark on there, apart from the things

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that we all go through at some
point in our lives, you know,

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death and grief and joys and tribulations
and a loving family, etc. All

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of that kind of stuff. But
as soon as I finished high school,

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I could not wait to travel the
world. I knew there was a big,

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wide world out there. I was
born overseas, my father was from

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England, grew up in Australia,
and we traveled a few times around the

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world when I was a kid,
so I knew there was this big,

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wide world out there, and I
just couldn't wait to go and see it.

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So I spent most of the end
of my teenage years and all through

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my twenties and early thirties just trying
to go and experience cultures as vastly different

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to mine as I could find,
and that had me having to earn money

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along the way. So I ended
up doing a whole range of different things

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to earn money, from being a
traditional tribal tattooist to a kindergarten teacher in

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Taiwan, to a fire dancer to
a laborer motorcycle courier, all sorts of

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things. You know. I would
just find a way to earn money wherever

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I was and then keep traveling.
Then jump forward to my early thirties,

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had fallen in love, got married, became a father, and realized that

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I didn't have a career nor any
qualifications. I had a few books worth

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of experiences and good stories, but
no way of feeding the young people,

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my kids. So I went and
got a job with a travel company,

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an international travel company, because travel
was what I knew, and I spent

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eight years with them and ended up
in senior leadership. So I went from

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being very alternative, dreadlocked, barefoot, tattooed backpacker and ended up in a

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suit and tie and running quite a
large division of a multinational and incidentally,

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through the corporate pressure to drive net
profit growth order on quarter on quarter,

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which any of your listeners who are
in the corporate world understand that pressure,

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I moved away from my own core
values and you did what I thought I

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needed to do to be successful in
that world, but ended up becoming really

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unhappy. And then in my early
forties, I was lucky enough to have

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what people call a midlife crisis.
For me, it was a midlife awakening

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of sorts. I lost my job, lost my marriage, lost my house,

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lost everything. I really hit rock
bottom. I kept my two sons

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in a fifty to fifty week on
week off arrangement, so I have my

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two boys, but really had to
start all over again. And that's when

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I started on this current chapter,
which has been the last twelve years of

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my life of building my coaching practice, working as a leadership coach primarily,

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but then also over the last ten
yearsrunning retreats in some of my favorite places

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around the world, in the Himalaya
of northwestern India, in Bali, in

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the deserts of Australia. So running
those retreats, writing books, ted x

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talks all the bits and pieces that
come with someone who's on a mission to

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try and share a message. So
I'm curious about those retweets. Are they

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mainly business oriented or are they more
personal oriented? It's personal personal development for

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professionals, okay, so it's within
the professional context. Business owners come away

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on this leadership retreat and the content
and the models and the implementations that I

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teach and share are completely applicable to
going home to your business or your organization

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in the context of leadership. But
at the same time, it's very much

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about your own personal development because that
sits at the core of your ability to

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you know, to be a good
leader. Well. And you know,

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it's interesting when I was doing some
consulting with small businesses, one of the

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comments that I'd make is, whatever
we're going to teach you here in business

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also is going to apply to life
or vice versa. Let's let's figure out

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what's going on in your life because
that's going to be affecting and representing your

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business. So you know, I'm
going to really enjoy talking about your book

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and literally, you know, the
heart of community, the heart of what

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is it? The heart of conscious
communication? And I love that word.

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But I also love I also love
what you talked about how you found yourself

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in a situation where you were not
being true to yourself. It was almost

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a duality of your life. And
do you get into that at all as

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you're working with these people and talking
about how do you how do you literally

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become who you really are rather than
who you think you need to be or

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who the environment or a society or
work or or whatever says you need to

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be. Yeah, yes I do. It's that It's where we start.

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Actually on the retreats, there's four
conversations that I facilitate, and the first

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one is about it. It starts
with you and coming back to your authentic

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self, rediscovering that. I believe
we already know that inherently but maybe not

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consciously. And a lot of people
haven't allowed themselves the time to sit and

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contemplate who they are, who they
choose to be in terms of their character,

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not in terms of their job title
or their relationship title, but what's

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important to them in terms of who
they aspire to be. These are our

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core values and how that can inform
our sense of identity rather than the roles

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that we play. And then also
if for leaders, within the context of

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leader, we talk about authentic leadership, and I think it's really useful for

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leaders to understand that they shouldn't try
to be more like anybody else. They

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shouldn't try to be more like that
leader over there. What they should be

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actually doing is understanding the best version
of themselves and who they aspire to be

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and be that as a leader.
So how deep do you get into this

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concept of our environment, our perception, our life is literally a representation of

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those subconscious as well some conscious sub
conscious as well as some conscious beliefs and

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environmental affects and so forth, to
where as we start to communicate, we

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find that sometimes we communicate in a
way that's not really us because of those

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environmental subconscious beliefs and so forth that
affect us and also sometimes as we're doing

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it in a perhaps reactive way,
we're really doing it not as who we

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truly are, but who we have
been created to become by our environment,

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our family. Yeah, I mean
I love this. I find this fascinating

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and more than just fascinating this topic
that you've brought up, doctor Doug,

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I also find it really useful to
think about and then to practice in terms

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of so we've been brainwashed into a
sense of who we think we are right

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largely by our environment and what's been
gone on around us and what we've been

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taught and what we've been told,
and this brainwashing, they're neural pathways that

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have fired so many times they create
like a neural highway. So there's a

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reflex thought that happens. This is
our biases, our beliefs, our lenses,

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and these are happening, like you
said, largely subconsciously and sometimes consciously,

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but they're firing of their own accord. What I'm fascinated about is how

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can we, now, through expanding
our awareness and some conscious some volition,

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some intention, choose some beliefs around
self and our relationship with self and the

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world around us that are more functional, that are less limiting and then run

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those and consciously brainwash ourselves to rewire
ourselves to a more healthy version of sense

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of self identity, ego, and
therefore then a more healthy relationship with the

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life around us, you know,
the other people in our life and the

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world around us. So yeah,
look, I find it fascinating. In

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my book. I go into it
in a lot of detail. In the

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retreats I serve the room. It
depends on who's sitting in the room.

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So I'll bring up a topic and
we'll explore the surface level of it,

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and if it's going to serve the
people in the room to go deeper and

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deeper and deeper, let's go.
And if not, then we'll go where

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we need to go. Well,
And you know, you use the word

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consciousness's mindfulness, and it seems like
in today's society, for those that are

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really delving into that personal development,
that self development, that self awareness,

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that those two words become very important. I know, as I've read different

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books, for instance, A New
World or a New Earth at card totally,

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I don't know if you've read that. Now he's talking about consciousness,

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he's talking about ego and how literally
we allow the ego to modify our lives

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rather than truly become conscious or you
know, you talk about mindfulness and Buddha

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talks about you know, part of
those eight you know, eight full steps

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is an eight full path is to
reach that area of mindfulness. And let's

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talk about that a bit because in
your book, I know you specifically use

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the word conscious communication. So what
are your thoughts about that and what does

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it mean to truly become conscious or
mindful of what's going on internally within our

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subconscious mind? And as you say, which I find so interesting, is

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that we develop these neural pathways based
on all of that stuff that's happened in

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our childhood and so forth. And
I think sometimes people don't realize that they

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can change that, that they literally
can develop new neural pathways and create an

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entirely different perception of life and experience
a different life by making those changes.

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But as you say, it really
requires consciousness or mindfulness to do that.

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Care to share some thoughts on that? Yeah, yes, I mean everything

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that you've just said resonates so well
with may I know, and it's not

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just theory. You know, I've
been lucky enough to be to have created

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the opportunities in my life where for
whatever reason, was hitting rock bottom was

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the main reason where it was necessity
I had to rewire because I actually it

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came from one night. I was
in a North American Indian sweat lodge in

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a men's circle, but we were
here in Australia, on First Nations land,

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special land, spiritual land here and
I had really what was a spiritual

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experience, and it was an awakening
experience as well. It was out of

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body. I was flying around.
I was five years old, flying around

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in the in the ether. But
anyway, long story short. From that

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out of body experience, I came
home that night and I had a very

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very literal dream around my own self
healing. And what I learned from that

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dream when I woke up in the
morning was that I had been harboring a

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neural pathway, a belief subconsciously for
the first half of my life that I

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wasn't good enough. Yes, so
there was a belief there that I wasn't

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good enough, I wasn't enough.
And whether that translates for people into I'm

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not smart enough, or I'm not
tall enough, or I'm not good looking

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enough, or I'm not clever or
funny any of these insert any part here,

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and I realized, Wow, if
I believe that I'm not good enough,

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no wonder, I've been interpreting the
environment from around me as evidence to

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match my belief. So I've been
attracting people into my life that are showing

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me that I'm not good enough.
If I ever had potential success in front

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of me, I would sabotage it
because I didn't think I deserved it.

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You know, the imposter syndrome that
we talk about anyway, That was in

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my early forties. And then books
came my way, as they tend to

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do. Books just came my way
that we're all talking about neuroplasticity in how

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to rewire the brain, and so
I went to work on myself. I

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went to work on myself, and
it took a while. You know,

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Unfortunately, I don't think there's any
quick fix thing. You know, I've

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been to the Tony Robbins weekends and
I've walked on the hot coals. But

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unless you then go home and do
the daily work, you can't create sustainable

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change. You don't just take the
blue pill or the red pill and then

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all of a sudden have a matrix
waking up moment, I don't think.

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I think you need to do the
work, And so I did the work,

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and I eventually, over time wired
and new belief, which is,

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hey, wow, of course I'm
enough. I'm exactly enough. I'm enough

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to be me, and I shouldn't
be more like anybody else because I'm not.

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And I shouldn't have more experience than
I've got right now, not yet.

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I will one day, but right
now I should only have the experience

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that I've got. And when I
look back into the past, every mistake

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I've ever made, apparently I should
have made Why because I did, you

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know? And so it's really coming
to this place of radical self acceptance,

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you know. And that was a
liberation for me. Coming to a place

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of wiring the neurology to a place
of radical self love. Self acceptance liberated

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me from a lot of stuff.
So yes to what you were saying,

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I love it well. And you
know what I find interesting is and I've

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gone through some similar things. I've
not had the side of body experiences.

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I keep trying to figure out how
to do that without without the drugs,

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and drugs work as well. I've
had it through drugs this well, but

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I haven't. I haven't been able
to do that yet. But what I

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find interesting is so many people really
have this concept of not being good enough

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and and I'm wondering how much of
the environment creates that. You know,

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I think of original sin from the
Christianity part, and you know, they're

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all taught that original sin. They're
born into the world sinful. We have

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other religions and other situations that come
up to where we literally culturally have come

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to believe that we're just not good
enough. And yet, what are your

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thoughts about who we really are?
Now? I don't mean to get into

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the religious, but maybe the spiritual
part of this bit, but who are

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we really? And how do we
help people to understand potentially who they really

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are, not potentially who they really
are, and potentially they can discover that,

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Wow, the deep stuff. I
love talking about the deep stuff.

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And maybe the question should start with
what are we? Before who are we?

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Because who part we get to we
get to have something to say about

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that, you know. And I've
been through two identity crises in my life.

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The first one was really scary in
my twenties that because I didn't know

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what on earth was going on,
and that was really disorientating and quite a

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cathartic experience to go through when I
was twenty eight, and then the second

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one in my early forties, I
kind of knew a little bit that the

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death of the previous ego was an
opportunity to re identify, so that was

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a little bit more it wasn't as
disorientating. But who am I? I

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believe we can curate that, Yes, you're right, But what am I?

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Which is a deeper question, I
think, and this sense that we

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have of so on one level,
what am I? Well, I'm a

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bio mechanical creature being when I look
at it in terms of being separate from

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everything else around me. But that's
actually an illusion that we're separate. That

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I'm a separate creature from everything around
me as an illusion because I am actually

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intrinsically and inseparably a part of the
greater system. You know, we're all

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breathing in and consuming our environment.
When you and I are sitting in a

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room together and someone walks through the
room with a bouquet of flowers and we

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both smell the flowers, we're actually
ingesting particles of those flowers, and so

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we are of the same star dust
very literally, and it seems more real

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to me that we're all connected,
and we're all quote unquote one, we're

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all part of the greatest system.
That seems more literally true to me than

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the illusion that we're separate, which
is what our egos would have us believe.

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So what am I? I believe
I'm an intrinsic, energetic part of

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a non physical of a non physical
allness that manifests in physical reality in terms

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of energy spinning fast enough to create
the illusion of the physical world. But

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I believe that we're all part of
a non physical energy. And that's my

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spiritual understanding of things. Yes,
and you can ward that as spiritual energy,

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you can warn that as God,
you can you know whatever that happens

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to be the universe. But I
think that's so important to realize is that

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we truly are of that entity.
And it's interesting, as you talk about

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how when someone brings in flowers and
we both smell it, not only do

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we smell the flowers, we probably
look at the flowers, we appreciate it,

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and so forth. But here's the
interesting thing that comes to my mind,

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and you talked about it a little
bit earlier, as we put forth

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whatever energy we choose to put forth, that energy comes back to us.

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And so it's interesting, as you
said, how we can literally create a

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perception of our lives based on those
subconscious beliefs, and literally then it comes

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back to us. As you were
talking about, you know, I'm not

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good enough, and therefore yourself sabotaged
and things came your way to make sure

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that prove that you're not good enough. So what a wonderful thing to be

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able to get to the point where
you can understand as you and I like

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the word what you are, whatever
and whatever that happens to be in someone's

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spiritual understanding and you know, awareness, How does someone get to that point?

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How did you get to that point
where you finally realized what you were?

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It was a process of many heroes
journeys. We talk about the hero's

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journey, and it's something that we
see this metaphor this story that is replicated

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in all the great films and the
great novels, but also we experience it

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as humans. And I think there's
been many versions of that that I've experienced

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through my life. And I've always
been curious, I've always been introspective I

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was always very sensitive, and when
I was little, part of the environmental

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indoctrination to me not being good enough
was that my father, who came from

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a different generation, you know,
World War two, working class, tough

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enough, harden up, suck it
up, don't cry, you know,

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be strong generation, and as a
sensitive young boy who would cry and feel

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emotions, etc. He used to
tell me, in not so many words,

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he would say to me that I
wasn't good enough. So that's kind

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of where that came from for me. But I was always sensitive and curious

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and introspective and also very expressive.
I've been writing songs my whole life,

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songs and poetry, so there was
a lot of reflection time. And then

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all of those travel years through the
twenties, I would spend a lot of

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time sitting in deep reflection and contemplation, So that was always there. I've

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always been very spiritual, very interested
in that which we can't prove scientifically.

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I'm very fascinated by that. There's
a lot, a lot that we can't

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prove, so I do. And
I love science, you know, I

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love science. I studied physics at
school and I found it very interesting,

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and I love science and what it
explores and uncovers. But I think that

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ultimately science can't ever objectively explain the
mechanics of the universe because we're stuck within

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the human perspective. Anyway, that's
a bit of a tangent. So I've

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always been very spiritual and very curious. And then so through the experiences I've

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had in my life, I've naturally
been contemplative about those. And then and

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then my life went the way it
went, and you know, I got

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lost in doing the best I could
do to provide, but I got I

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did get lost at lost as in, I had to move away from my

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core values. I felt I was
becoming becoming someone that I didn't that it

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wasn't my authentic self, and I
didn't know that this was happening subconsciously.

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But then I started drinking too much
alcohol. I was working hard, but

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I'd get up really early in the
morning, work really hard, and then

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i'd come home and to cope with
it all. I had young children,

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and I'd kind of put them to
bed and get on the booze and then

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get up the next day and do
it all over again. And I was

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partying really hard, and I got
sucked into this corporate world that I used

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to abhor when I was a younger
person. I was anti establishment, and

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I got sucked into this corporate world
and I was flying in business class around

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the world, and I was earning
a lot of money and drinking a lot

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and partying a lot and what you
know. And thankfully, thankfully the universe

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me as in my relationship with the
universe, and vice versa, the universe

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thankfully spat me out of all of
that very unceremoniously, you know. And

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I must have in some way called
that in because it's what I needed.

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But I lost my job, lost
my marriage, lost the house, you

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know, and turned around with nothing
except a lot of debt and a drinking

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problem and a couple of young kids. And that was rock bottom for me.

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And I was like, wow,
I really need to sort this out,

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you know. Well, and I
think, you know, it's interesting,

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I hope for the audience, you
know, and we all go through

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some type of situation, you know, for you, it was rock bottom.

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Others hopefully they don't have to experience
that. But many times, at

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least as I've been having the opportunity
to interview a lot of people, seems

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like that tends to be the case
in many situations where they hit that rock

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bottom and suddenly that awareness comes in
that that's not who they are. They've

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been playing that duality of life game
and that makes it tough. So conscious

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I want to get into this conscious
communication because I think that that becomes so

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important as we start to develop ourselves
and move forward with our consciousness or mindfulness.

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What is the art of conscious communication
and how can it affect our relationships

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in your experience? Perhaps I could
start with the most basic definition of the

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words that are the term conscious communication. So to be more conscious of anything

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is quite simply to be more aware. So the more conscious we are something,

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the more aware of it we are. And communication comes from the original

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words for communication is the Latin word
communicatio, which is the noun which means

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literally a sharing. So communication is
not a telling, it's a sharing.

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And the verb communica communicare, which
means to make common. So communication is

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to make common. It's an understanding
and this is completely essential to us as

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a species. There's no way we
would have been able to evolve off the

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savannah planes if we didn't figure out
how to work in relationship, how to

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work in teams, how to work
in social groups. That's been the reason

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we've been able to survive and thrive, and also, sadly to our dysfunction

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as well, is propagated through communication
also, so it's the flip side to

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everything. But essentially, the quality
of our life is directly correlated to the

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quality of our relationships. Not how
many houses you own, or how many

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cars you drive, or you know, how much money is in the bank.

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That's not the quality of your life. It's the quality of your relationships.

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And the quality of our relationships is
completely contingent on the quality of our

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communication. Well, you know,
it's so interesting because what I find the

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name I've really had the opportunity and
blessing to study communication very deeply, and

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I totally agree with you that it
is the effect of the quality of our

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relationships. And what I find interesting
is we all get so caught up in

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communicating, you know, And I've
heard this story before, and it's true.

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It's even true of me. You're
communicating to me, and as you're

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communicating to me, I'm trying to
think of what I'm going to say next,

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so I'm not really hearing what you're
saying. And truly not really understanding

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what you're saying. Yeah, but
you're in a role of service right now,

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because this is your show and you're
facilitating and you're hosting, and you're

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doing this in a role of service. You're hoping to facilitate a conversation that

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might add value to the lives of
others. So in that role of service,

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part of your responsibility is to be
thinking about where am I leading this

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conversation and what will I be asking
next. Whereas for me, it's probably

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a little bit easier because I'm being
led by you and I'm being held by

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you, that it's easier for me
in the moments where you're speaking to just

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completely listen and seek to understand and
trust that when it's right that there'll be

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something that I have to share or
connect with you on. You know.

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So it depends on our role.
But that's conscious communication. If if we're

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conscious of our role in the communication
itself, if we're more conscious of the

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other person, then we can be
better in our part of that communication,

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do you know what I mean?
So it really depends. Yeah, And

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you know, being here in Thailand
right now, probably the greatest frustration I

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experienced to the point sometimes it just
drives me crazy, is trying to understand

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and I don't speak Tie, and
most ties around here don't speak English,

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and so we end up using Google
Translate. And what I find and what

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I have found having to do,
is when they say something, Google Translator

364
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isn't always that great, and all
of a sudden it's like, okay,

365
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I don't understand. Can you reword
that in a different way? And sometimes

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it takes two to three times to
ultimately go okay, now I understand.

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And you know how often does that
happen when we're speaking our own language with

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someone that we really don't seek to
understand, and therefore we get a communication

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and our emotions immediately react to that
communication, and that may not be really

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what they're saying. For instance,
with the example with your dad, you

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know his communication to you, your
interpretation of that communication was that you're no

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good You're not good enough. Okay. It would be interesting to go back

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as an adult now in time and
find out what he really meant and what

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was the basis what he meant.
It was probably more like I love you

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so much, son, and if
you can take my advice, you'll do

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better in life. Like, I
love you so much and I want you

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to have every chance of a good
life. So please take my advice.

378
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You need to toughen up, You
need to man up, you know.

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So yeah, yeah, one hundred
percent when we're yeah, we don't,

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you know. And it's interesting you
mentioned the Google translator because Google in the

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Search for Yourself mindfulness program. At
Google, they developed a communication technique when

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there's two people who are disagreeing or
there's some conflict, person A in person

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B, and they take terms to
speak. Person A says what they're trying

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00:31:41.640 --> 00:31:47.599
to communicate. Person B doesn't speak, just listens. When person A is

385
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finished, person B then has the
opportunity to repeat back to person A what

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00:31:51.759 --> 00:31:56.079
they heard right, which is quite
often not what they meant. And then

387
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they and then persone says, oh, yes, you understood that bit,

388
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but that bit I did communicate it
well enough. What I actually meant was

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And it's like you said, the
three times backwards and forwards until you actually

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00:32:06.200 --> 00:32:09.079
understand what the other person meant.
And that's a process that they do at

391
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Google. And the other thing that
came to mind when you mentioned the Google

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translator. I love Thailand. By
the way, I've spent a lot of

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time in Thailand. It's my favorite
cuisine in the world. Love typhood.

394
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Anyway, my twenty year old son
last year, when he was nineteen,

395
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went off to travel around the world. Before he left, he said,

396
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Dad, what do I do when
I get to a foreign country and they

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don't speak my language and I don't
know where to go? And I said,

398
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mate, pull your iPhone out of
your pocket and he pulled it out.

399
00:32:39.920 --> 00:32:44.519
Look what you've got, dude.
When I was traveling around the world,

400
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I had a big, heavy,
lonely Planet travel guide book that's sat

401
00:32:47.200 --> 00:32:52.960
at the bottom of my backpack getting
squashed, and we just used to figure

402
00:32:52.960 --> 00:32:57.240
it out, you know. Anyway, Well, and so you know,

403
00:32:57.559 --> 00:33:02.559
I love what you're talking about.
Google literally studied that art of communication and

404
00:33:04.160 --> 00:33:07.759
the model that you were explaining,
I think came from someone that I studied

405
00:33:07.799 --> 00:33:16.240
a little bit earlier than Google.
But but what's interesting is how how so

406
00:33:16.440 --> 00:33:22.839
often we don't we don't seek to
understand, you know, we don't listen

407
00:33:22.920 --> 00:33:25.640
and seek to understand. And as
you say that that going back and forth

408
00:33:25.680 --> 00:33:30.160
without judgment and without emotion and saying, you know what, I'm not sure

409
00:33:30.160 --> 00:33:32.599
I understood what you were saying,
there, can you explain that a little

410
00:33:32.599 --> 00:33:37.960
bit further? And then as you
say, repeat back what they said and

411
00:33:37.039 --> 00:33:42.480
oh no, no, no,
that's not what I meant. How difficult

412
00:33:42.640 --> 00:33:45.000
is it to develop that? But
once you develop that, and how do

413
00:33:45.160 --> 00:33:52.279
how do people learn to develop that
type of quality of communication? And once

414
00:33:52.359 --> 00:33:57.720
they do that, what has been
your experience that that does for relationships?

415
00:34:00.359 --> 00:34:06.279
So I think how again, it
starts with developing self awareness. Usually what

416
00:34:06.400 --> 00:34:13.159
gets in the way of seeking to
understand is our egos defensive quality. So

417
00:34:13.199 --> 00:34:15.760
we have our ego is our sense
of identity, who we think we are,

418
00:34:16.840 --> 00:34:24.239
and that is quite literally also made
up of our ideology, our political

419
00:34:24.360 --> 00:34:29.400
beliefs, you know, these deeper
core beliefs that we have around right and

420
00:34:29.440 --> 00:34:32.840
wrong form a sense of who we
think we are. And our ego is

421
00:34:34.360 --> 00:34:37.119
a defense mechanism. It's there to
keep us safe. So it's fueled by

422
00:34:37.199 --> 00:34:43.679
fear and it's very very defensive and
therefore closed minded. We're naturally quite closed

423
00:34:43.679 --> 00:34:47.039
minded, or at least the ego
is. So that's why people find themselves

424
00:34:47.280 --> 00:34:52.679
in communication when the other person's talking, there only aren't trying to understand what

425
00:34:52.760 --> 00:34:57.320
the other person's saying enough so that
they can defend their point of view,

426
00:34:57.320 --> 00:35:00.440
and then they're waiting for a gap
in the conversation to jump and say,

427
00:35:00.519 --> 00:35:04.400
actually, no, it's this,
or yes it's that. If I believe

428
00:35:04.440 --> 00:35:07.679
the same thing as you, but
it's all about me defending what I believe

429
00:35:07.760 --> 00:35:15.239
to be true. So I've noticed
that over the years of practicing loosening your

430
00:35:15.280 --> 00:35:20.000
grip on how you think things should
be or how you think things are,

431
00:35:20.039 --> 00:35:25.679
just relaxing your grip a little bit
and a practice of open mindedness to alternative

432
00:35:25.719 --> 00:35:31.280
perspectives, of experiencing life in other
ways different to yours, and that you

433
00:35:31.320 --> 00:35:36.119
don't actually have anything to defend.
Your life's not in threat. I mean,

434
00:35:36.159 --> 00:35:37.760
if there's a lion coming to eat
you, your life's in threat,

435
00:35:40.159 --> 00:35:44.519
or if you're in a war zone, your life's threat. But if you're

436
00:35:44.559 --> 00:35:47.679
just in a communication with someone in
a different team in the organization that you

437
00:35:47.760 --> 00:35:52.320
work for, and they've got a
different opinion to yours on a problem that

438
00:35:52.360 --> 00:35:58.480
you're trying to solve at work,
your life's not a threat. So take

439
00:35:58.480 --> 00:36:01.880
a breath and let go of the
need to defend your point of view.

440
00:36:02.400 --> 00:36:07.599
When you relax a little bit on
that then you can lean in a bit

441
00:36:07.639 --> 00:36:12.679
further and really try and seek to
understand. You know, people ask me

442
00:36:12.719 --> 00:36:19.119
for practical applications of this. Here's
one. Next time you're scrolling through social

443
00:36:19.159 --> 00:36:23.039
media and you see a post that
is inflammatory to you. So you see

444
00:36:23.079 --> 00:36:28.119
a post and the clickbait is working
because at the post says something and your

445
00:36:28.159 --> 00:36:30.719
immediate triggered reaction is no, that
no, I can't believe that. That's

446
00:36:30.800 --> 00:36:37.360
just not true. So you have
an immediate reaction to this post. Notice

447
00:36:37.400 --> 00:36:43.400
that you've just reacted. Put your
phone down, pause, close your phone

448
00:36:43.400 --> 00:36:50.199
for a second, sit there and
contemplate your reaction and your beliefs around that,

449
00:36:50.679 --> 00:36:55.480
and then entertain possible alternative perspectives to
that thing that you just got triggered

450
00:36:55.480 --> 00:36:59.800
by. Just entertain them. I'm
not saying you need to change your mind.

451
00:37:00.000 --> 00:37:04.199
Eventually, you either will or you
want, but just the practice of

452
00:37:04.280 --> 00:37:10.519
opening your mind to alternative perspectives develops
your ability to be open minded. So

453
00:37:10.559 --> 00:37:15.239
the next time you're in communication with
someone and they say something that you disagree

454
00:37:15.280 --> 00:37:19.519
with, rather than getting defensive and
waiting to jump in, you might actually

455
00:37:19.559 --> 00:37:22.239
be going, oh, I'm curious, how did you come to think that,

456
00:37:23.519 --> 00:37:28.920
yeah, And it's interesting when you
can do that to the point where

457
00:37:29.519 --> 00:37:34.000
as you say, sometimes you actually
change your perspective a bit, or other

458
00:37:34.079 --> 00:37:36.760
times you may just smile at them
and say, you know what, I

459
00:37:36.960 --> 00:37:42.039
totally understand where you're coming from.
And do I agree with you, No,

460
00:37:42.440 --> 00:37:46.800
but guess what I agree to disagree, and I honor the fact that

461
00:37:47.159 --> 00:37:52.280
what you believe is what you believe
and really being able to say that without

462
00:37:52.320 --> 00:37:58.639
any judgment. You know, you
talk about ego is it's so amazing as

463
00:37:58.679 --> 00:38:02.960
we look what's going on in the
world right now and and all all the

464
00:38:04.000 --> 00:38:07.840
wars and all of these things going
on, it has everything to do with

465
00:38:07.000 --> 00:38:14.320
ego. I am right. I
have to be right, and what you

466
00:38:14.360 --> 00:38:17.679
know, what a blessing and what
an understanding to realize that, you know,

467
00:38:17.760 --> 00:38:22.559
what we are not our ego and
if we can, if we can

468
00:38:22.679 --> 00:38:29.159
start to remove that ego. I
know that Buddha talks about non self,

469
00:38:29.840 --> 00:38:31.599
and you know, and as you've
been talking, because I've always tried to

470
00:38:31.639 --> 00:38:37.039
figure out what's he really talking about
there as I've had a chance to study

471
00:38:37.039 --> 00:38:38.599
that, and now all of a
sudden it kind of hits me. You

472
00:38:38.599 --> 00:38:44.119
know, if we really realize that
we're a non self. That means that

473
00:38:44.159 --> 00:38:51.039
we're not allowing our ego to control
our thought process or our lives are a

474
00:38:51.079 --> 00:38:53.960
reaction or anything else. That literally
we have removed the ego. And once

475
00:38:54.000 --> 00:38:59.320
you do that, then it's amazing
to me the culture here, and it's

476
00:38:59.360 --> 00:39:05.800
fascinating how I've observed personally, how
you can say something that is totally opposite

477
00:39:05.840 --> 00:39:10.599
of what they believe and they smile
and say I understand, and there's no

478
00:39:12.159 --> 00:39:16.679
ego or judgment there. Yeah,
yeah, Yeah, It's beautiful, isn't

479
00:39:16.719 --> 00:39:24.599
it. There's so much in Buddhism. And as I was living for years,

480
00:39:24.679 --> 00:39:34.440
living and walking and traveling around India, the more I understood those teachings,

481
00:39:35.000 --> 00:39:40.480
the more it just sat with my
kind of intuition or my feeling.

482
00:39:40.480 --> 00:39:45.159
It's hard to explain, but I
learned things from Buddhism and say, yeah,

483
00:39:45.159 --> 00:39:50.480
I kind of knew that. I
kind of felt that in some way

484
00:39:50.639 --> 00:39:54.039
already, and it makes sense to
me. So I'm not religious. I

485
00:39:54.039 --> 00:39:59.239
don't follow any particular religion, as
we've already talked about, Dr Doug.

486
00:39:59.320 --> 00:40:01.519
I am very spiritual, yes,
but if I had to, if I

487
00:40:01.559 --> 00:40:07.760
had to align my ways of being
to any particular religion, it would most

488
00:40:07.800 --> 00:40:12.920
closely be Buddhism for sure. Well, and you know, I'm not a

489
00:40:12.920 --> 00:40:15.480
Buddhist either. I just I'm like
you, I am so curious that when

490
00:40:15.519 --> 00:40:19.320
I get into an environment, I've
got to study it, understand it,

491
00:40:19.480 --> 00:40:22.679
you know, that old thing.
But but what I find and you've hit

492
00:40:22.719 --> 00:40:25.960
on it. You know, there's
I think there are some common truths.

493
00:40:27.039 --> 00:40:30.679
And you know, then we talk
about the more modern writers and they're literally

494
00:40:30.960 --> 00:40:37.559
writing about exactly the same thing that
was written thousands of years ago. But

495
00:40:37.679 --> 00:40:44.079
all of a sudden it's a new
awareness, a new mental discovery, when

496
00:40:44.119 --> 00:40:46.960
in reality, you know, it's
been there for a long time. So

497
00:40:47.599 --> 00:40:52.800
I find that fascinating. And you
know, I really love this whole concept

498
00:40:52.920 --> 00:40:59.079
of, you know, learning to
be conscious, conscious communication and understand.

499
00:40:59.159 --> 00:41:04.559
Can you imagine if the majority of
people in the world could get to the

500
00:41:04.599 --> 00:41:08.920
point that you talk about with that
conscious communication and understanding that, what a

501
00:41:09.119 --> 00:41:15.360
different world and what a peaceful world
we would have. I do imagine it,

502
00:41:15.519 --> 00:41:20.239
and I don't know whether it will
ever happen, but I do imagine

503
00:41:20.239 --> 00:41:24.599
it, and I strive to play
my part to try and tip the scales

504
00:41:24.639 --> 00:41:29.400
of humanity in that direction. I
really do. I'm passionate about it.

505
00:41:29.400 --> 00:41:34.559
It's why I'm sitting here connecting and
conversing with you. It's why I write

506
00:41:34.559 --> 00:41:38.239
the books, I run the retreats
that I run because I really hope that

507
00:41:38.280 --> 00:41:45.760
we can become more conscious in our
communication and rather than shouting at each other

508
00:41:45.800 --> 00:41:51.679
across the divides of difference, you
know, which has been propagated by the

509
00:41:51.719 --> 00:41:59.480
algorithmic movement online. You know,
where pro vacs and anti vacs are just

510
00:41:59.559 --> 00:42:02.400
shouting at each other, or pro
life and pro choice, or just shouting

511
00:42:02.400 --> 00:42:07.559
at each other, or canceling each
other, or all of this animosity which

512
00:42:07.599 --> 00:42:12.159
is just such a shame to look
at because I don't believe it's actually a

513
00:42:12.159 --> 00:42:17.800
true reflection of humanity. You know, I meet more people that are good,

514
00:42:19.400 --> 00:42:25.159
kind, nice, caring, humble
people who don't want to harm anybody.

515
00:42:25.760 --> 00:42:30.199
But if you just believed mainstream news
or social media, you believe that

516
00:42:30.400 --> 00:42:35.920
all the world's out to get each
other. Yeah, well, you know,

517
00:42:37.119 --> 00:42:39.119
jam as we as we close,
what I'd love for you to do

518
00:42:39.440 --> 00:42:44.719
is share with the audience in you
know, a brief way, what would

519
00:42:44.760 --> 00:42:50.159
be the message that you would like
to share with them that they remember as

520
00:42:50.199 --> 00:42:55.880
they end up closing off this podcast. The message I'd like to share is

521
00:42:55.920 --> 00:43:01.000
that if we could take a snapshot
in time right now, you are exactly

522
00:43:01.119 --> 00:43:07.519
enough. You are exactly enough to
be you. You shouldn't be more or

523
00:43:07.599 --> 00:43:10.719
less of anything. You are exactly
who you're supposed to be in this moment

524
00:43:10.800 --> 00:43:17.039
right now. Love it, Jim. This has been a fascinating conversation and

525
00:43:17.079 --> 00:43:24.760
I call it a conversation which I
really appreciate too. Thanks so much for

526
00:43:24.800 --> 00:43:28.760
being on the show. Really appreciate
it. I wish I wish I was

527
00:43:28.760 --> 00:43:30.199
in Thailand with you, mate.
I love Thailand. It'd be nice to

528
00:43:30.239 --> 00:43:34.679
pop over and say hi. That
would be great. And folks, thanks

529
00:43:34.679 --> 00:43:37.960
for listening. I hope you got
something out of this. Go get that

530
00:43:38.000 --> 00:43:44.239
book and I assume it's on every
major Amazon and those type of places where

531
00:43:44.239 --> 00:43:50.840
they can get that and allow that
to hopefully teach you a little bit more

532
00:43:50.960 --> 00:43:55.119
about how to develop conscious communication.
Have a wonderful week. We look forward

533
00:43:55.159 --> 00:44:05.159
to having you join us again soon. Tim to Etangier has been intent and retired