The 2/10 Rule of Effective Communication

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0:44 Denzel Washington, Welcome to Inspire Vision. Our sole purpose is to elevate the lives of others and to inspire you to do the same. Jake Starle, Welcome to the show. Oh thank you for having me. This is a real honor. Hey, I really appreciate this. I think that you're going to have some tremendous insights that you can share with the audience today. I'd love for you to kind of share the audience who you are, your background, and how you got to this point of approaching life in the way that you are sure. I have thirty years in training and development. I've done it all over the world, six countries, somewhere around ten thousand people. But it all started in sales. I sold for four different companies. I was number one in three of the four companies, still a little upset about the fourth company. But at one point I was asked to do training, and honestly, to make a long story short, it kind of took off from there. I got into e learning. I won multiple international awards for instructional design, and when the corporate life kind of came to an end, involuntarily, I decided to go off and branch off on my own.

1:58 So I became a consultant and then a fractional chief learning officer. My specialty is looking at the psychology of decision making and how that affects a person's want and desire to have a product. I have a degree in psychology with certifications in neuro linguistic programming, and I've been on my own for eleven years now and things are just fantastic. I have both corporate and individual clients which I coach pretty much daily. Oh wonderful. And when you talk about decision making. What does that mean helping people with they're decision making?

2:40 Well, we all make decisions based on conditioning, at least for the most part. And the best example I can give you is you see your cell phone light up and it's that person that just talks your ear off and you look at the phone and you go, I just don't have time for you today, so you don't answer. But that condition response is based on past decisions you've made with them to talk with them and listen, et cetera. And we have a lot of those, right I say, how are you fine? Thanks? How are you? I love you? Oh? I love you too. Can I help you with something? Nope? Just looking. So the customer goes through a condition response, and it's only once we break them out of that conditioning when we interrupt it, that we can have a true valuable conversation. And honestly, this applies to your significant other, parent, children.

3:34 We're all conditioned. Yeah, and let's talk about that. And I know your main focus is business, which is really amazing. Excuse me, But what I have found, is I've worked with small businesses, is that you can't really separate the two. The reality is whatever principles you're teaching in business in some way really affects life, and particularly when we talk about communication, when we talk about perception and so forth. So let's get into that a little bit. Let's talk about conditioning and perception, because I think that those are two separate things and yet similar any ways, So let's talk about perception a little bit. What's your thoughts about perception and how does that.

4:21 Affect our communication? Well, I always like to think of perception as how we expect things to go. And I think we've all had that day or night where we have that expectation in our head of we're going to go out to dinner and it's going to be great, and we're going to come home and relax, But then a flat tire happens. Maybe the restaurant food wasn't that great. So we have a perception that we're going into But when that perceptions interrupted, it tends to significantly alter the way we view things. So all of our perceptions change. That we age right, we get biases, we get prejudices. Is all of that is about perception. But the first step a customer takes, or a perspective partner takes, or a child takes is how do they think you're going to be when they communicate with you? And that has a dramatic effect on the outcome. If I'm a salesperson and I start my conversation with high how are you, perception changes great? This is a sales call. This is going to be a waste of my time. So perception shifts, and so us understanding how we're perceived by another person can radically change our communication method and even verbiage to help them either will fill their perception or change it.

5:45 So let's talk about parenting for a minute, because you brought that in. I've got your kid, that's not your expertise, but I'll bet it is if you've got four. Kids of me too, So you know, let's talk about that. Because our children are growing up in an entirely different world than we grew up in and they get so much influenced by social media, by school, by religion, by society in general, and so their perception, I would suspect, becomes much different than the perception that we had as children growing up. So as a parent, as a parent, how do we really develop that open, transparent communication with them in a way that we can understand what their perception is be willing to accept their perception and not judge it. And yet at the same time, if we feel like that perception is going to lead them along the wrong path, how do we help to modify that in a way that's not challenging to them or making them feel like they're stupid or not doing well.

7:03 Yeah, and I think that's a really big question. So maybe if we can unpack that on a smaller scale, I think part of the perception issue is we want to give kids a sheltered environment and we want to not show them some of the stuff in life that may not be as great. I know parents who don't like to argue in front of their kids, and that's fine. I'm not criticizing that, but that's a great perception issue. Then, so then that child perceives relationships as always good, and then when they get into one where an argument occurs, how are they going to perceive that? And I don't know the answer, but I have my suspicions. And the same thing with social media. We look at social media and most people put out their victories. Right here's my latest vacation. I just graduated with an MBA. I look at how the cool new car I bought. And so the kids get this perception and that, wow, my life looks nothing like that, So why isn't it like that?

8:06 And I think that shifts their perception. You know, we've read over the past twenty years depression has become greater and greater, and I think that's because their perception of how other people's lives are has changed pretty dramatically. You know, when you and I grew up, we went to each other's houses all the time, so we saw arguments, we saw if their house was messy, and so we got an expectation, Hey, our lives are different, but that's who they are and it's not perfect. And I'm who I am and I'm not perfect. But I think we need to show our kids what we want them to be able to adapt to. Later on, Bill Gates gave an amazing address to a group of graduates back in the eighties, and he said, people are so concerned with what going on with other people when and then they try and give this trophy for everything that happens, but that doesn't mirror real life at all. So when you get out in the real world and you don't get that trophy, what's your perception of yourself and the world going to be?

9:11 And I'm no expert, but I can't help but think he has a point. Well, and then when you talk about conditioning, how does how does conditioning and what is conditioning and how does that affect an individual's perception? Well, there was a psychologist out that just died, I believe in the nineties. His name was BF Skinner and his main thesis was free will is an illusion. We're all just one big ball of preconceived notions or pre condition notions that we go through based on previous decisions. So conditioning, I think, was a survival instinct. I see a bear, I run, gun shoots, it's bad, knife sharp, don't touch stove hot, stay back. So we're condition with certain things to just know how we should react without making a conscious decision. The part where it gets hard is when that starts to seep into real life. And I'll give you a great example. I was on vacation last week and somebody said to me, have a great vacation.

10:20 I said, you too. Condition response, Yeah, didn't think about it, didn't give any thought to it. And this can harm us. I think in a lot of ways. Especially in business. I have a personal pet peeve about the question how are you? Nobody really cares unless you're super close to them, and it's become a substitute non conversational. Greeting instead of just tallow. Or hey, I was looking forward to our talk today. Thanks for taking the time, you know, just anything, but how are you? Which is going to get the condition response? Fine, thanks, how are you fine? Yeah? Yeah, that's true.

11:00 Well, and when we talk about conditioning, you're talking about some service surface level conditioning that goes on. Yeah, let's talk about some of the deep, deep, deep conditioning I. Would call them imprinting that occurs not only from our DNA memory, which I found is very valid, but also from our childhood, from our parents, from our family, from our religion, from our school, from all of those things that can literally condition us in a way. How does that affect our perception of life based on that conditioning? I think the scariest part of that is a lot of times it's unconscious, you know, in neuro linguistic program and we call that anchoring. You're anchored to a certain thought based on a certain stimulus. And I think the hard part to answer this question is a lot of times we're unconscious of it. You know, somebody says they're scared of Well, you're not born with that. So what took place or what perception took place that conditioned you that all snakes are bad? They're all slimy? I think the scary part is we don't know how that happens.

12:17 And some of it's gradual. Right. We may have love driving on the highway when we first started to drive, and without an accident or a traffic violation, we may hate driving on the highway twenty years later. It's an imprint, it's anchored by something, but a lot of times we don't know what. And I think that's what makes coaching and counseling so important, is to help us get in touch with what made us feel the way we feel today. And I'm certainly no doctor qualified to talk about this. But. Well, and if you've used ENLP, you certainly are aware of how many of.

12:58 Those imprints are subconscious. So talk a little bit about NLP because I think that's important for people to understand. Many people go to a psychologists to go through you know, talk therapy, all of that type of thing. Some people do all sorts of different things. I have found that NLP has such a positive ability to help someone to really recognize some of those limiting beliefs that are subconscious and basically reframing them to a way that they're no longer triggering them, they're no longer affecting them and their perception the way that it is. So, can you share a little bit about what NLP is and the process if you're taking someone through a NLP process, how does that work?

13:45 Yeah, the NLP to me is rather brilliant because the first part of NLP training is getting you hyper aware of the people that you're talking to that we all have certain things we do inherently. It's just kind of baked in us at our rep till your level, I guess you'd say. And it starts with getting you to recognize that. So, do they speak in a modality? In other words, do they use a lot of visual references or auditory references or kinesthetic references? And NLP even looks at eye movement. So if your eyes go to the upper right or upper left, you're accessing visual memory. If you're looking to the left or right, you're accessing auditory memory.

14:27 And once you become hyper aware of how other people think and how to communicate with them. NLP teaches you to dig deep inside yourself. So think of something that you do that you don't like. Let's say it's snacking on the sofa at night. N LP teaches you to step outside and look at it almost from a third party perspective. Can you look at it from another person's point of view and understand what's taking place and what triggers it, what's anchored you to have your snacks on the sofa at night. I will tell you I have a bunch of NLP clients that I work with one on one to help them get by things where they're stuck.

15:08 But the most impressive thing to me was going through the training myself. I think it should be required in high school. I dug so deep into me on certain things and discovered a lot of things that were incredible. But NLP has a way of digging into decisions or anchors that you have and teaches you how to either a strengthen them or b let them go. And that's a dramatic oversimplification, but I think that's a good summary. Well, and do you have any stories that you can share? I know that for me. I had one client that I took through a process, an NLP process, and it was interesting because he was he was making decisions. He came to me, he says, Dougie says, I'm just not making good decisions. I don't understand why. But here I'm ready to go with this, and all of a sudden, I'm making a stupid decision and I'm going, okay, so let's get together. So we spent literally an hour and a half together and went through a whole process of trying to get back to what was causing that, and we ultimately got back to an experience he had as a child in school, wow, in a classroom where a teacher literally basically said you're stupid.

16:23 Put him into the back of the room. And so created this concept of him that he's stupid, he can't make right decisions, and therefore, because of that, he kept making incorrect decisions. And so as we were able to literally rephrase that and really look at it from the perspective, and this is where you get into the perception of all right, you know, your perception initially was I'm stupid, But what's the real reality of what's going on there? And we talked about the fact that no teacher, if they have a healthy mental stability themselves, is ever going to do.

17:04 That to a child. And so we talked about the fact that it's all about the teacher, not about you. Once you went through. That and then we came forward in a positive way, his life changed. It totally changed. And I'd love for you to share one of you know, maybe a speri experience you've had with someone and how that has helped them. Yeah, I'm married for a second time and I was very fortunate to get two new daughters out of the relationship and I love them just to death. And one of them was having troubles with a breakup. The gentleman was not very nice to her. I felt kept her on like a mental umbilical cord that you're depending on me and my decisions are what goes. So she and I had literally an hour session, not unlike yours, and when we talked about why she felt that way, I asked her, how old are you right now? That emotion that you're coming from, Where is it coming from? What age are you when you're having this emotion? And sorry, this choked me up a little bit. She said, I'm fifteen.

18:20 I can see it as clear as day. And she led me through an experience with someone that she had that made her feel as though if a relationship went bad, it was all her fault. And we talked it out and we kind of cleared it. We did the five or six whys of okay, so why is that? So? Why is that? And we got down to one single experience that she had with a grown up male when she was fifteen that led to her feeling this way, and once we cleared that, it was amazing. She's now she has left that relationship. He's in a much healthier one with a guy who treats her like gold, which is great. But I think to your point, with your client, who obviously was much younger in his feeling, we can sometimes get back to that root cause and change it well, absolutely and just and just understanding it. I know that when I went through one of those processes, and I think we all have.

19:24 This I'm not good enough kind of mentality subconscious, you know. And as I went through that, and we went we went a little bit beyond NLP on that and I literally got back to being. In the womb, oh wow, and hearing my mom. At least. This is what I came up with, is I went through the process, you know, hearing my mom yell at my dad saying you're no good. And I have found that I really identify with my dad. I just have my whole life. And so I when I finally realized that, and it's like, holy cow, that came from way back when. That's just amazing to me. How that changes our perception. And as you work with people, how do you explain to them that?

20:14 And I believe this is true, that they're conditioning. Creates their perception, and their perception creates their life, and they're thus they always will attract what their perception is. Yeah, and I'll be honest with you, I don't have one hundred percent success convincing people of that. There are some people that I think are so set in that and I think it largely depends on age that they can't be brought around, or at least I haven't been successful in bringing some people around. But the people I have been successful with, it's more of a thought process of asking questions versus telling them. So I asked them, how do you perceive this person? How do you perceive this situation, and we go through the process. I'm like, if I ask you, how are you, what's your response?

21:09 And if a child says I love you, what's your response? So we go through how conditioning is around all the time in your life. You can't help it. It's you're a product of your environment. And a lot of the times it's just putting them through experiences. One of my favorites is to teach them how perception. They can see it every day. If you've ever traveled to a hotel. About fifty years ago, management of a major hotel group was having trouble with a big problem in their hotels. Customers were complaining about how slow the elevators were, and so they went through all these plans, how do we build new elevators, how we get into the floor is quicker?

21:54 And a maid of all people at a hotel meeting said, why don't we put mirrors outside the elevator doors. People will be busy primping themselves and their perception of time will go faster. Now, you can't find a hotel anywhere that doesn't have mirrors outside the elevators. So perception is so powerful and we see it every day. But I just don't think we're conscious of it enough to recognize the power all the time. Well, and as we're communicating with people, and really if we're taking the role and wanting to really make sure that that communication is a healthy one for both parties, how do we make sure that we understand because you know, words, verbal language, body language, you know, all of that is part of communication. How how do we help that other individual to perceive appropriately what we're trying to say? Because, as you and I both know, you can say a few words and someone's perception of that is going to be entirely different, almost entirely opposite of what you were meaning. So, from a standpoint of teaching communication, how do we help people to take responsibility to make sure that that communication is going in a way that the other party truly is understanding and prestige what we're trying to really communicate.

23:28 I would say that one of the things I've done, and maybe this will be helpful, is I created something are called the two ten roll. When I'm working with a client, every two minutes I check in. Does that make sense? How does that apply to you? Do you have any opinion on that? So every two minutes I'm creating an interaction or a kind of an opening a door for them to walk in or object or say no, Jake, you don't have that right. This is what I meant. And then every ten minus minutes I open up the doors completely. Hey listen, I babbled. Now for ten minutes, we've gone through a lot of stuff. What questions do you have? So I can re solidify that foundation. But I base this rule on a premise I found out about twenty five years ago that fascinated me, and I found this to be true. I read somewhere that for every ten minutes you talk, you generate two minutes worth the question in the other person's head. Now think about how staggering that is. If it's true, every ten minutes you're generating two minutes worth the questions. So my theory was, if I can turn that on its head and check in every two minutes, and then every ten minutes open the floor for a question, I believe it makes things much clearer, and it shows an openness between the two of you and hopefully a safe environment. Is that the answer for everybody. I'm sure it's not, but it has

24:59 worked very well for me and my clients. Well, any examples you can share, whether it be in business or individual where that has helped the communication. Yeah. I do active training and developments, So I will train companies on how to sell, I'll train CEOs on how to negotiate with their vcs. But what I did was I taught a training organization how to do this. So instead of just having their trainers download for an hour, I taught them how to every two minutes check in with an audience member. Anybody does that make sense? Am I going too fast? How does that apply to you?

25:41 Come up with questions where you can check in, and then every ten minutes summarize. And what they found was a couple of things. First of all was the audience became more of a community. Everybody saw that it was okay to talk, it was okay to verbalize, so they got more participation. The second thing they found was people retained messaging easier because as you and I both know, the human brain is designed to assimilate in chunks, not in long stretches of verbage or information. They also recreated their PowerPoint slides so that was chunked out and allowed for those two minute interjections, And they found not only did their class feedback up, but the proficiency of the people leaving the classes was a lot better. Most importantly, they didn't require Q and A at the end of class.

26:34 Most of the time they'd say, Okay, what questions do you have at the end and everybody's I'm good, this was. Great, wow, wow, And you know that's that's so amazing as you think about it, to ask questions and to get that kind of response back, which means you you know, I know in marketing often so oftentimes, and I think this is one of the biggest challenges of small businesses. They go, oh, I got a great product, so they. Spend the money, they do everything, they've got it ready to roll, and nobody buys, and they go, what's going on? And I tell them, you know, your very first step is. To start asking questions, start doing some surveys.

27:15 What does it not people need? Because we think, okay, they need this, they need that, But what is it that they want? And as you're explaining that to me, what it tells me is that as you're doing that with the two ten rule, that you're literally allowing the other person in some respects to maybe even share what you want so as you're moving forward into communication, whether it's business or even personal, and you discover that what they want is a little bit different than what you're trying to push, you literally can change that approach if in fact, your true desire is to help that other person to succeed.

27:57 And that is a big part of it, right, You need to have a sincerity level about listening and adapting as you go. Yes, and so let's talk about relationships, because I know that you have mentioned that communication and relationships. Let's talk a little bit about your experience with that and what your thoughts are about how important communication is in keeping good relationships or getting out of relationships that are not healthy for you. Well, speaking from experience of being a divorce dad, I can tell you a lot of the reasons for the divorce was my inability to listen probably as well as I could have and communicate as effectively as I could have.

28:46 And looking back on it, it's so easy to see things in the rear view mirror. So I would say the things that I've changed dramatically for my second marriage is I listen far more than I talk. I try to deliberately get more information on any topic that they're talking about. And I do this with all four of my kids as well. And what I found was that the relationship with my own kids has evolved dramatically because they've started to look at me differently because I'm listening more. And even in business, I do the same thing. I'd much rather hear about you than I would to talk about me. But here's where the magic happens. I thought when I did this with my kids and with my current wife, I thought they would just take the reins and go. They would just blab until I couldn't take it anymore. But instead, a miracle happened. After about ten minutes of talking about themselves, they come back and say, Wow, I've done a lot of the talking, Dad, how are things with you? So I found out, and I wish I would have known this much earlier in life. I found out that much more I listened, the better the communication was both ways.

30:09 Wow, you know, And you know, I would add one thing, listen with understanding. And I think that you know, when we talk about communication, I mean, there's so many elements to that, but I think that one of the key elements that either create a negative situation or a positive situation is the ability to really understand. And so you know, as you're talking to me and telling me about this, and I'm coming back and saying, well, you know what, Jake, I don't quite understand this. Can you explain this a little bit more. All of a sudden, now this understanding, and now we have an equal perception. We're perceiving the same thing because now I'm beginning to understand.

30:53 Where you're coming from and really understand that. So I think it's so important to be able to take the responsibility, whether were the Communicate tour or the Communicate tea, that we really asked those questions. And you know what, just to build on that, because that's a great point to build on a little bit more is to do a post mortem on a conversation. How was I during that conversation? And at night, can I look and say, hey, I wasn't perfect today, but I learned a little bit more about me and I learned a lot about them, And then can you hit the resets switch the next day. I think one of the best things I ever did, I started a number of years ago, was to forgive yourself at the end of the day, Hey, listen, you weren't great conversing today, didn't make a lot of friends, but it's okay. Tomorrow we can start again. Be more cognizant of what you're doing and take responsibility for it. And that's a hard nut to crack sometimes.

31:57 Well, it really is, and realizing that that communication can be so important to being able to really have those relationships. That you want. Yeah, I get asked probably once a week by people I network with, so are you a good communicator? And my answer is always not really. I think I'm just more cognizant of what I'm doing and I catch myself quicker, but I don't think it means I make any more or less mistakes than most people. So I think cognition and to your point, understanding is a big piece of that puzzle that you never really master, but becoming aware of it is certainly a step in the right direction.

32:42 Well, and you mentioned something about ed'lpe, and I hadn't thought about incorporating this part of it, that as you talk about people who are visual, who are auditory, who are catesthetic, and as we're communicating, how important is it to understand how they choose to be communicated with and how important is understanding just those three aspects. Well, I can only go by theory, and I think over time i've seen this actually be true. Is what's the favorite topic of every one of us on the planet without fail. As well? Well? Oh ourselves, right, okay, right?

33:23 We don't like to talk about ourselves, and we tend to like people who are like us, so we tend to get pulled towards them, or gravity brings us together. And the more I can make my speech similar to yours. So if you use all visual terms, if I can relate back to you in visual terms, and if you sit a certain way and I can sit a certain way, and if I can look at your eye movements and I can tell whether you're recalling a memory or trying to picture something, I can become more like you. And what winds up happening is that leads to more of an open door. It leads to a trust. Right, everybody wants to talk to somebody they can trust. So if I can build that trust quickly by understanding your modality, relating to it, and syncing into it, we can have a deeper connection.

34:18 So as you do this, you get into doing any profiling. Behavioral profiling as far as personalities and. Are they left brain, right brain extroverts, introverse? Do you get into that much at all? I don't. I love the theories. I love things like a kneogram and whole brain, and I love all of that. That's my nerd talk, that's nerd vana for me. But I don't think I ever go back through beyond the basic modalities and just understanding them, because I think people tell you who they are if you listen carefully enough. And I understand things like an and the whole brain, dominance models and things like that have a lot of value.

35:05 But I think if I get focused too much on that, then I lose where we were in the conversation. So I stick to the basics and I rely on them to guide me through well. And I understand that. But as you're working with people for a while. For instance, I look at my kids. I've got one son that is absolutely left brain extrovert. That's just who he is, and that's kind of who I am too, with a little bit of introvers there analytical. I've got a couple of other sons who are literally right brain and in fact, two of my boys, as they were going up there about a year apart two years apart, and they did not get along at all in high school. And so I have found a fellow that does some of that personality evaluation.

35:52 And so, you know what, I'm going to do this. So I had them going together and go through a course with him. The ultimate result was that the right brain person understood that when the left brain person speaks, they're not speaking in a way that is comfortable for a right brain and the left brainer realized that, you know what, if I really want a friendship here, which they both did, I've got to learn to communicate it in a way that he's able to accept as well as the right brain needs. To be able to communicate in a way that the left accepts. And I think that that becomes really important.

36:33 How do you when you're not doing those evaluations or behavior analyzes and so forth, how do you help people to understand how to communicate in a way that is comfortable for the other individual to. Receive that communication. I appreciate you clarifying, and I think I made some assunctions I couldn't have. I thought we were talking about initial relationships, but yes, as we get deeper, I really do enjoy doing that. One of my favorites is the Hermann hulbrain dominance model, and that puts you into a learning style of blue, red, green, or yellow. And I've gotten my family so into it that we'll walk by somebody and they'll talk to us and my door will.

37:14 Go, oh, he's blue. So we do get into that, and we do enjoy it immensely. Yeah, when I talk to clients about it, that's another hard concept I think for them to get a hold of sometimes is that the way they communicate isn't a universal method. But I do like the simpler models. I've never done just purely right brain and left brain, but I do love that the Herman brain dominance models. The one I've kind of come to rely on. Four basic colors, four basic styles. And what I don't normally do is get into something super deep that you're like an LBDR Y three. I'm trying not to get too detailed.

38:00 I can never understand that I actually use something called the disc test, but oh yeah, I'm failiar with But it's actually a very heavy, more in depth one that gets into values and motivators as well as how do you want to be communicated with? And and what I found I found with my own kids that because I tend to have opinions, and I tend to be analytical, and I tend to be strong willed, you know. I finally learned through sad experiences that I finally had to stop and say, all right, do you want me to listen or do. You want my opinion? And that has been something that has been something that's been so hard for me to do. But as I've learned to do that and they laugh about it now, but the reality is a lot of times I'll say, no doubt, I really do want your opinion.

38:47 But I think if I had not asked that question and offered my opinion before asking, it comes across entirely different and they get a different perception of what I'm doing. I love that, And this is all part of that self cognition thing, right, being aware of what you do and trying to change it. So I commend you for being brave and internalizing that and coming up with something that worked that may have been against your initial styles. So my hat's off to you. Well, And how do we help people to become cognizant and responsible for the way that they're communicating and understand when they're communicating in a way that is not positive versus understanding that they're communicating in a way that.

39:33 Is actually positive. How do we help people to understand that and to take that responsibility. In my opinion and from my experience coaching other people, is it's a long game. So when somebody learns to be let's say, abrasive or get offended easily, I don't think at least I even seen the evidence that there is an overnight cure for that. I think sometimes it's first of all, you need to be aware when you're feeling that way, and then later on we'll look at how you respond. But for right now, I just want you to have the awareness. So here's a homework assignment until we talk next week, and then we'll talk about that awareness that you built up, and then we'll take the next step. But to me, plays like this are a long game. It's not something that we can have an overnight success with, and so when I try to help clients, I chunk it out for them. I have a daughter right now who's very hot headed, and we just had this exact conversation yesterday, and I'm asking her to think about a certain spot where she kind of goes over the edge and to documented for me, and next week we'll talk about it in a phone call.

40:47 But again going back to what we said before, being self cognizant or self aware, to me, it is the first step of the process, not unlike nanaa right at first admitting you have a problem. Right. So, here we are on a podcast, and I am curious, what is your motivation to be on a podcast? Because you're the person that I am interviewing. Obviously I don't go on podcasts to speak myself. I'd love to be the person that interviews Why why are you wanting to be on a podcast? And what is it that you're trying to accomplish through your podcasts.

41:27 That's a great question. I would say that part of it is drive. I really would love to people to have people start to change the way they think about communicating with other people. I think we're making some rough decisions with AI coming out. We're starting to not think at all about what we're putting out there. We'll let something generated for us. We're kind of losing our ability to critically think. And I'm not against AI. I love it, but I think in there we need to keep basic communication principles that I don't think we've mastered yet. And my hope is by coming on shows like this and talking about it, people will explore NLP, they'll explore personality profiles, and they'll start to look at other people and go, maybe I could talk to you differently, and maybe I could think about myself differently. And again, this is the long game. If we can touch one life at a time and get them to think differently, maybe they'll do that with somebody else. So I think it's in an inherent hope that we can affect change in some small way.

42:36 Yes, and play it forward. And as we do that, maybe ultimately in the years and I'm millillion years to come, we can see a change. In the overall culture of our world. And so let me flip that on you. Why do you do the hosting? You know, that's a good question. It occurred back when my dad died. He died back in twenty ten, and he was an incredible classical voice teacher and he was at Northwestern University in Evanston, Illinois, and they did a concert for him. They did a memorial concert, and as his students came up and sang and then spoke, I walked out of there just amazed because what I heard was, Yeah, Norman. He was a great voice teacher, and they would laugh about what he would do sometimes he didn't like going to the opera, but they say he'd go into when they were doing an opera. He'd sit in the front row to the side and just casually use his arms in his hands whatever to kind of be guiding them in the way that they were singing. And they would laugh about that.

43:49 But the reality is that the main story that hit me was a fellow that had to be at least twenty to thirty years younger. Than my dad. But they became good friends, and they used to play tennis together, and he used to laugh about how you know what, they'd always call it for the other person. And he says, every once in a while, and this is I think my dad was in the seventies. When he's talking about this particular issue. He says, every once in a while, Norman beat me. And I and he. Says, and I had to sit to myself what. Happened, he says, And I finally realized he willed me off the court. Then he goes and tells a story about how he's over in Germany and he's he is actually auditioning for a top opera in Germany and going against their top tenor. And he tells the story and ultimately the basic result was that not only did he get that particular opera, he got the whole season. And he says, and he says, as I walked off that stage and thought to myself, how on earth? He said, as I realized that Norman had taught me, and I willed him off the stage. I willed the other singer off the stage fast. And so I found that that really affected me because the message was, you know, he gave us the will to win, to succeed, and then

45:20 in addition, to live and to love. And they were literally saying those words, and I thought to myself, you know what, what I'm doing right now is not making a difference in people's lives. I want to do something that's going to make a difference in people's lives. And you know, I try to do all this and that and everything. And I finally realized, you know what, one way I can do this, and someone introduced this to me, I can. Have a podcast. And I literally went from business tips and trends to making a difference in people's lives, inspire vision, and that's why I'm doing it. I don't make any money on it, you know, It's just something that I do. And every once in a while, every once in a while, I'll get a phone call or I'll get a message that says, thank you so much that podcast made such a difference.

46:07 In my life. And the reality is that I'm enjoying interviewing folks such as yourself because everybody has a different perspective, they have incredible insights, and there's going to be one person maybe that listens to this particular podcast and says, wow, you know what, I can make a change, and that's all that really makes a difference as far as I'm concerned. See, you would make a great guest, I know. Yeah, great stories. That's fantastic, What a touching story. Thank you for sharing that. Oh you bet so. Anyway, that's why I'm doing it. And we have come to the end.

46:49 And so we're gonna close. But Jake, thanks so much for being on the show. And I appreciate your insights and obviously, you know, your life experiences have come into a point where you're now sharing that in your insights with other people, and I think it is making such a difference. I'm sure it doesn't the business world, and I'm sure it is with those personal people too, So thank you very much for making a difference on. Other people's lives having me you bet. Thanks for listening, hope you enjoyed it. Look forward to having you join us again soon. This is doctor Doug saying, Noma, stay