Stepping Stone

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accomplished. It's about what you've done
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lifted up, who you've made better. It's about what you've given back.

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Denzel Washington, welcome to Inspire Vision. Our sole purpose is to elevate the

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lives of others and to inspire you
to do the same. Lov Arnold,

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thank you so much for being on
the show. How are you doing today?

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I'm pretty good. Thank you so
much for having me. Oh it's

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great to have you on the show. And where are you from. I'm

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from Melbourne, Australia, so I've
lived here my whole life and even lived

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in the same suburb pretty much my
whole life as well. Oh wow,

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that's fantastic. Well, you know
what you've You've written this wonderful book and

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it touches on a number of things. But I'd love for you to share

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the audience your background and how you
came about writing this book. Yeah,

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so I write romance books. So
I've written three books. So the first

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book is Lauren Disorder, which is
an Enemy to Love as romance. But

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my two novels, so Etched in
Stone and Stepping Stone, they're both in

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the same universe, so they're both
standalone books. But both books are are

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based on a different female team member
in an investment firm and they work in

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and done the analytics and an IT
type team. And so the latest book,

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Stepping Stone, the main male character
he has PTSD from being in the

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war in Afghanistan. And it's a
second chance romance book. And I got

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inspiration from that because one of my
friends served in Afghanistan and he said,

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everyone that comes back has some form
of PTSD, regardless of what role you

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do over in Afghanistan in the army. And he told me and gave me

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some insight on what to what are
some of the signs of PTSD, like

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maybe a loud noise, a car
backfiring and them getting a bit startled or

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scared, or being taken back to
that place in Afghanistan in the war.

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So and some of these symptoms,
it relates to anxiety. And since I've

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always had anxiety since i was young, I could relate to it, even

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though I've been nowhere near being in
the war any things. I've got no

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idea what that's like. But some
of them, like weddy palms, like

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clenching chairs, their symptoms of anxiety. So I use some of my physical

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symptoms to put into the character.
Okay, and as you've done that,

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you're talking about how he experiences PTSD
anxiety depression. But from what I can

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get a sense, you're really talking
about your own personal experiences as well as

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his. And does the book really
help people? Obviously it's fiction to some

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degree, but is the focus to
really help people to be able to overcome

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some of the mental health issues and
emotional health issues that they're experiencing. Yeah,

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it's hard to really overcome any emotional
or mental health issues just through just

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trying anything once. But I've been
really grateful because I've had a lot of

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readers reach out to me or leave
in a review saying the book really resonated

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with them. So majority of my
readers, since it's romance, they're women.

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So they did say that they recognize
a lot of their signs in my

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book, and they said it did
make them feel less alone because with my

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book, it's very spoken about quite
openly, and same with a lot of

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my interviews or anything that I do. I speak about having anxiety quite openly.

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So they said they really do like
looking at my posts or my interviews

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because they do feel like it's not
only them that's going through it, and

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it's something that's quite common for a
lot of people to go through at some

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point in their lives. And I've
had some women message me saying their partner

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has been through the war or they've
had PTSD from something else, and they

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really they've seen a lot of their
partner in my book as well. And

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in the book, is it situation
where you discuss the relationships between someone who's

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been in the war and their espoused
her, their significant other, and how

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they're able to repair and put that
relationship back together again in a more holistic

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and positive way. Yeah. So
it is a second chance romance and at

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the beginning of the book. So
the married couple, they're inner separation and

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part of what led to their separation
was his PTSD symptoms and she didn't really

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quite understand. The main character,
female character, Jenna, she didn't really

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quite understand the symptoms and wasn't quite
prepared for it, and didn't really understand

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that it was all part of the
science that he was having PATSD and not

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just something that he was just doing
like that was making things bad for them

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both. And so it's a book
where they work their way back to each

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other. They work on themselves individually
and also themselves as a couple to make

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their way back into each other,
and they grow a deeper understanding of each

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other. And do you kind of
you know, and again I recognize as

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fictional, but you kind of do
a step by step with each of the

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characters on how they go about individually
doing that introspective work and then how they

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as a couple come together and do
that introspective work as a couple. Is

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that part of what you have in
there? So okay, so could you

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talk about that a bit from a
standpoint of let's talk about him and then

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let's talk about her, or vice
versa. Whichever you want to go first

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and talk about the steps that they
take in order to number one, that

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self introspection, and then once we've
done that, then we'll talk about how

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they then come together as a couple
and do that couple introspection together. Go

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ahead and start with her. Yeah, so with jen Jenna Kravitz, So

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with her. So she it's just
at the beginning of the book, she's

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just angry with him, like because
of the things that he's done. And

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one of the things he did was
like when he got back from the war,

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is sometimes he went to places and
didn't quite really know where he was.

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So at the beginning of the book, like they were separated for about

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a year, and the reason for
their separation is because him her ex husband

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Marco, he went into a brothel
with his friends, but since he was

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going through the PTSD symptoms, he
didn't actually quite realize where he was.

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And when a lot of brothels,
especially when you go overseas, they look

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like a bar when you go in, and so he didn't realize where his

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friends was taking him to. And
even when he went inside, he was

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still in this numb state. And
as soon as he realized where he was.

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He left straight away, but she
felt betrayed because like he went inside

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this brothel in the first place and
thought it was like a betrayal of their

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marriage, and she didn't really quite
understand that it was like part of his

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PTSD symptoms that you might be so
out of touch, out of your body

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that you might not even know where
you are. So yeah, she starts

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off as really angry with him and
she went. So she's also wanting to

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date at that time as well,
so she does go on dates with other

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like this other person, and and
part of the book is also navigating like

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how she feels as a single parent. So they have two kids together,

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so she's navigating being a single mum. And and with this book, she

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also does have like some sexual desires
that she never addressed with her husband at

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the time because she also saw it
as quite taboo. So in this book

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there's also a five financial crime element
to it, and she has to solve

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this financial crime element. And through
her going on this journey of maybe what

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she wants in herself and going through
like being having that confidence to address what

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she wants and having that journey,
like she starts to reflect on maybe things

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that he might go through. And
in the book, the more they talk

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to each other, she starts to
realize maybe she wasn't as understanding as she

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could have been, and part of
something of what families of war soldiers get.

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They get brochures and support for things
like PTSD and science to look out

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for. But she realized that she
wasn't quite prepared for what she might be

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expecting and didn't realize a lot of
the signs. And with the character Marco,

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he starts off like with doing an
illegal boxing match, and he and

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that is something that a sign to
look out for to actually go out looking

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for trouble or to like have that
physical pain element because they still want to

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punish themselves. So he's doing that
illegal boxing match, but at the same

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time he wants to get back together
with Jenna. So some of the signs

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he's going through, like the PTSD, is he's drinking a lot. At

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work, He's overly concerned about safety. So for example, when one of

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his colleagues takes off their gloves,
he goes like really angry at them,

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saying things can go wrong if you
don't follow proper safety procedures. And that's

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something I heard from my friend who
served in Afghanistan for people, like they're

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very big on safety, and he's
like that with his kids too, making

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sure they put on their seat belt
and things like that. And so he's

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going through this journey, his own
individual journey while trying to get back together

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with his wife and he's trying to
like be better. So at the end,

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he decides to maybe go to therapy, which is I think something men

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in general aren't as willing to go
to compared to women. And so he

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decides to give that a try.
And that's sort of how the book.

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It's sort of like how the book
ends, like he decides to give therapy

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a go, and because before he
was too proud to go. And I'm

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not saying that therapy works for everyone, but it's important to be able to

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look at different avenues to see what
maybe works for you well. And I

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think that that's an important point.
You know, you're talking about this relationship,

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and I think that that many many
couples experience this type of relationship situation

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where they seem to be drifting apart. And it may be that, you

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know, if one of them has
the PTSD and you know, anxiety or

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depression, whether it's the man or
the woman, it can start to separate

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that relationship. And then and then
you talk about her, you know,

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you know, having you know,
finding starting to date and so forth.

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But the other thing that you bring
up is this concept of intimacy and the

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fact that that was part of the
separation going on with them. Also for

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whatever reason that happens to be and
I would suspect that part of it was

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because of his anxiety and PTSD and
so forth. So as you look at

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that, and as you look at
you know, trying to really help people

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who are reading your book to start
to experience a change in their lives for

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the better, what do you find
from the standpoint of number one, how

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do people become a little bit more
aware and how do they become a little

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bit more willing to really address the
issues. And as you as you mentioned,

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as you were talking about it,
you know, she started to feel

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and experience a little bit of personal
accountability for what was going on. How

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how do you help people or how
do you see these people experiencing that,

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How do they become aware, how
did they become willing and how do they

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start to accept personal accountability? For
some of those issues that are going on

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in those relationships. Yeah, so
it's difficult, and in any relationship it's

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not up to one person to fix
the other, but like being married to

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or dating someone with mental health challenges, that can be a big strain.

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So since I've always had anxiety,
I didn't really realize he was anxiety at

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the time until so my husband when
we were dating, so about like maybe

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a few months into when we were
dating, he said to me, I

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think you've got anxiety. Maybe you
should see the doctor because some of the

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things you're doing isn't quite normal because
I'll be speaking around and around in circles,

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like when my thoughts are spiraling,
and he sometimes says, dealing with

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me can be a full time job, so it can be like it's not

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easy for the other person to potentially
deal with this, but like it's he

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with my husband, he does try
to look up things to try to support

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me and to help me, and
I think, even though it's not his

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job, I think it's important to
sort of understand where they're coming from,

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so that I think at first it
just seems like I was just worrying over

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nothing and I'm just an overworrior or
I stressed easily and not it's generalized anxiety

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disorder. And that's the same with
my book. So with Jenna in Stepping

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Stone, she didn't quite realize that
it was PTSD, and it was.

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And she just thought like, not
in these words, but like in general,

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she just thought like he was just
being difficult and not and not it's

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like an actual mental illness. And
so she does start to read up a

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lot more about it and so that
she can be that better support network for

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him. Well, and you know, and some of the things you're saying,

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I really love about accountability because here
he finally had to start taking some

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accountability out of the sereum in what
he was experiencing and what he was doing

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that was affecting the relationship to the
point where he was willing actually to go

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and to therapy. And you're right, most men do not want to go

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into therapy. Yeah, it can
be essential in those type of situations.

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At the same time, she started
taking accountability from the perspective of realizing that,

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Okay, you know, there's some
things that I need to work on

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myself as well as the accountability.
And you share this about your own husband

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of recognizing that the other person and
what they're experiencing and the behavior that's coming

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from them really is about other things, it's nothing about you. And then

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the accountability of being willing to be
there as a support structure to help them

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through those type of situations. To
me that that is a key in healthy

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relationships. Yeah, I think so, And like, especially if you're going

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into it, I guess you sort
of do know what you're getting yourself into.

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So I've always had anxiety and I've
always like overstressed a lot. So

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my husband perfectly knew this, like
when we started dating, because we were

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friends first for about a year and
we used to work together, so we

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were in the same team, so
we would be seeing each other full time

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work, and since we were in
the same friendship group at work, we

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would see each other quite a few
times a week after work as well in

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the group. So he knew me
quite well to the point where he didn't

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know that stressed over things. And
same with their marriage, Like she knew

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at the point that he was a
soldier in the army, and this is

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sort of like what like this is
sort of like what's involved with being in

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a relationship with someone in the army, and like, it's not to say

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that you can't break up with a
person or can't get out if it's not

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for you, but it's something that
she thought that she was fully committed to.

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And like both of them did take
accounts ability. So with Marco,

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he he acknowledged that he did have
outbursts sometimes like he was never violent,

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but he did have the outburst.
He was very strict on, like even

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to the point of obsessed with security, like locking the doors multiple times and

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things like that, to the point
where it might be a bit uncomfortable for

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his family, his wife and his
two daughters. And same with her,

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Like, so she does acknowledge that
statistically, men are less likely to get

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help then women. And even though
Marco kept saying he was fine and sometimes

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like she realized that she took him
too much at face value and he really

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wasn't fine and she should have really
been maybe doing more or like recognizing the

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science that he wasn't okay. Well, and you know, it's easy,

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it's easy to when those things start
to come up. And I think for

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a lot of people, some of
these sayings don't actually show. Yeah,

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for six months to a year.
In fact, some of the studies that

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I've read is it's a year to
two years before that individual actually becomes who

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they really are. We've been so
taught by society to be a particular way.

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This is how we should act,
this is how we should be,

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so on and so forth, and
oftentimes people get into those relationships and a

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year later, six months, a
year later, all of a sudden,

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the real person comes out, and
at that point in time, then it

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really becomes the issue that you're talking
about in your book. Do you just

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say you know, I'm out of
here, or do you take the responsibility

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and awareness to be able to move
forward and try to work on that?

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And I think what really becomes key
is are both people willing to do that?

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Because if Marco was never willing to
deal with his PTSD and those type

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of things, I can't imagine that
she ultimately would have been able to stay.

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Or if she was not able to
deal with whatever she was going through

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and he was dealing with it,
they would not have been able to come

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together either. So in your mind, what's the importance of both parties whether

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it happens before they're in the relationship, or whether it happens afterwards, is

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what is the responsibility of both parties
in your mind to be able to work

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on that relationship to actually make it
work. Yeah, they both need to

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play a part in it. So
like he Marcro needs to take needed to

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take that responsibility that he did need
help and acknowledge it, because if he

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just kept turning a blind eye and
thinking he's fine, Like, it does

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start with the person wanting to help
themselves. So it's really difficult for someone

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else, even if it's your partner
for like ten years or over, to

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be able to save you or to
help you get better. So it does

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start with that original person to take
responsibility and have that acknowledgment that you do

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need support or or that you are
experiencing some issues. And with Jenna,

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so she so she wasn't very understanding. And that was when I had when

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I was writing this book, I
did have a critique partner, and I

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had people that originally read my book
and they said to me, oh,

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like I was a bit put offside
her because like she wasn't understanding at all.

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And I did take that feedback into
account and I thought that would be

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part of her character journey to so
that to show her growth and and what

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she's like willing like and changing her
mindset. So at the beginning, she's

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very stubborn, she's very like this
is like I'm in the right and like,

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but that's part of her growth.
So at the ends, like,

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the more she speaks to him is
so just being angry with him and they're

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having more open conversations. The more
she realized that she wasn't as understanding or

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supportive as she could have been.
And you know, you you talk about

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the own personal experience that you have
as I was going to, you know,

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read your bio and understand a little
bit more. You talk about promoting

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mental healthness through your work and you
practice what's called the whim hot Okay,

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how does that? How does that
spell? So? W I M And

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then another word h O F.
So he's a man from Iceland okay h

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r F Okay, all right?
And can you share with the audience what

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that is and as you've applied that
in your own life, what results have

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you experienced? Yeah? So,
I like, I don't think it's a

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one size fits all for what might
help improve us manage your mental well being.

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So I have tried therapy with cognitive
behavior therapy before, and I've tried

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low dosage anxiety medication and both of
them didn't really work for me. And

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some people previously said to me,
maybe it's because you didn't connect with the

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therapist that well. But I had
about five different therapists and they were all

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perfectly lovely and nice, but I
sort of came to the conclusion that talking

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is overrated and that wasn't helping me. So yeah, like, so I

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won't go there. And so my
brother, he's a pharmacist, and he

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said, studies have shown that therapy
it might not work for some people because

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it will keep you trapped in that
cycle or like stuck in that cycle and

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reliving it, and that's why it
might not necessarily help some people. And

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he said, like, the body
is very much connected to the mind,

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and he said, you need to
push yourself physically to to build that mental

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resilience. So with the whim Hoff
method, I did his ten week program.

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He's a man from Iceland that promotes
cold water therapy and in the ten

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week program, it's it builds you
up, like so for the first week

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it's meditation and breathing exercises, plus
it's also the cold showers, but it

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starts off at about fifteen to thirty
seconds. To the end of the ten

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weeks, I was doing ten minutes
of the cold shower, and it's a

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dock to the system, like,
like, I can't tolerate the cold like

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people. Whenever I told people this, They're like, oh, yeah,

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but I can't. I don't do
well with the cold. But I'm probably

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worse than most people because in winter
I'm wearing about five jumpers and sleeping.

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I sleep with the electric blanket on
high. So if I can do it,

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other people can do it as well. And it's a big shock to

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the system. And when I'm in
the cold shower, I'm just thinking I

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really need to get out of here, like and all anxiety or stress goes

295
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out the window because I'm just thinking, I really don't like this. Well,

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And you talk about and he talked
with this method, you talk about

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meditation. Talk a little bit about
that and how you've approached that and the

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experiences you've had through meditation. Yeah, so it's a way to center yourself.

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So with his breathing exercises he gets
in his classes, he gets people

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to concentrate on certain pressure points in
their body and to lean into it so

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with like a stretching type pose,
and to breathe into that pressure point so

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that it's like it promotes general wellness
and the blood flow. And his meditation

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aspects is to picture the center of
your brain like this and to just picture

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that and like that light that's coming
through it. So it's a bit of

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mixture like that breathing exercise and the
cold water therapy as well. So if

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he does workshops around the world,
and part of his workshops is getting into

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ice water when it's among the snow, Oh my goodness. I grew up

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in Chicago and my stepdad put in
a sauna in our basement and he would

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take a sauna. He used to
play football for Northwestern. He would take

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a sauna and then in the winter
time he would run out and jump into

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the snow and roll over the snow
and I'm going, how on earth can

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you do that? Yeah? Yeah, it's not fun like, but it

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does feel invigorating afterwards, like it's
a good mental health racet. I think,

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so as you experienced that, what
did you find emotionally released? But

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what actually was the result of doing
that to the point where you know,

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other than freezing, where you were
in there for ten minutes in the cold

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shower, what emotional release did you
experience, a total clear of the head.

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So sometimes when my mind is spirally, I just needed that rude shock

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to the system to snap out of
it. And so it is that good

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release where at that time where I
could stop, like stop my mind from

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racing. And after ten minutes,
my body is actually shaking for like quite

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a long time afterwards, like a
few minutes at least, and my skin

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has gone a bit red from the
cold like being in there for so long.

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But it does feel invigorating, like
I think, like okay, like

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so realistically a cold shower won't kill
you. But but usually at the end

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it's usually quite satisfying that I made
it through it. And it's a about

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my mind having like having that resilience
and having and telling my body that my

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mind is in charge. And I
think that relates to any physical activity like

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I started doing jiu jitsu and muay
Thai a few months ago and and to

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help with mental resilience. And it
is a good feeling because even during those

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sessions or classes when I'm doing it, it's a good mental health reset because

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I'm just I'm learning a new skill
and I'm just thinking about not getting punched

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to the face during that time rather
than anxiety. And it's interesting how as

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you're doing that, whether it's meditation
or whether as you say, you know,

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physical activity that's specific towards a goal, that you forget all those anxiety

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and those subconscious situations that are going
on, and it starts to for you.

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And do you find that as you
continue to do this that the anxiety

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and the returning and the recurrence of
anxiety start to diminish in your life.

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Yeah, like I would say,
I still have anxiety. So I've only

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been doing jiu jitsu and more type
for a few months, but for me,

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pushing myself physically has been way more
beneficial to me than any medication or

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00:29:21.039 --> 00:29:26.279
therapy, which, like, since
I've done them both for years, I

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just don't think that they work for
me. And I know but and I

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know it hasn't worked for other people, but I know it's worked for other

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people as well. So I think
it's important to know to even if one

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thing doesn't work, to try to
find something else that does work. And

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so even though I've been doing martial
arts for a few months. I find

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it really helps me. But sometimes
I've had I've been quite on the edge

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up until I got to the gym, But as soon as I start getting

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onto the mat and trying to learn
what the coaches teach, since I am

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trying to learn a new skill,
my focus just goes on learning that new

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skill and trying to remember it and
then putting it into practice. And since

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I'm quite a beginner, so with
jiu jitsu, I get submitted quite easily

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and get into the bands or really
uncomfortable positions. So with jiu jitsu,

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the class ends with usually five five
minute rounds with different people, where it's

356
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you're versing a different person for five
minutes and I'm getting submitted like that whole

357
00:30:36.160 --> 00:30:41.079
time and getting choked and stuff like
that, and that's pretty much all I'm

358
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thinking about. So you're pretty much
getting punished for like twenty twenty five minutes

359
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at the end, So it doesn't
leave room for other things. And you

360
00:30:48.119 --> 00:30:52.240
know, I know that at part
of your bio you talk a little bit

361
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about you in your romance books that
you include sexual wellness, and let's talk

362
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about that from a minute, And
I look at that from a standpoint of

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intimacy, because I think that word
covers a lot of different things. It's

364
00:31:07.920 --> 00:31:11.920
not only just the sexual wellness,
but it gets into the whole relationship,

365
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the emotional relationship, that intimacy and
so forth. But what have you found,

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because I'm assuming you really do help
people with that type of thing in

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your books? What have you found? And you talk about Jenna and how

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she had been frustrated from an intimacy
standpoint that was important to her that never

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she could never experience it initially with
her as what do you find is important

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00:31:41.960 --> 00:31:48.240
in a relationship from a standpoint of
that intimacy And how do they communicate with

371
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each other? Because I'm sure that
the individuals have different desires, different needs

372
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and so forth. How do you
find you weave that into the books to

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help people to develop a greater sense
of true intimacy in every aspect in their

374
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relationship. Yeah. I think women
in general, sometimes they might be shyer

375
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to express what they want sexually.
So that's something Jenna struggling with at the

376
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beginning because there were things that she
always wanted to try sexually. But even

377
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though she had been married to the
same person for a long time, she

378
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was always too embarrassed to bring it
up. And it is important to bring

379
00:32:30.839 --> 00:32:36.000
it up to someone that you're with, especially if you're with someone for a

380
00:32:36.039 --> 00:32:43.240
long time, because it does keep
that open line of community communication going.

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Plus it also keeps things a bit
more fresh. And so that's something that

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she struggled with and that's part of
the journey that she goes on to being

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00:32:52.240 --> 00:32:55.599
more confident enough to be able to
express that and not to be embarrassed of

384
00:32:55.640 --> 00:33:01.480
it and not to think like she's
just being a bit weird. And for

385
00:33:02.359 --> 00:33:07.759
a marriage, like if you've been
together for a long time, it's important

386
00:33:07.799 --> 00:33:14.440
for that open communication and just to
like be able to think that you're still

387
00:33:14.480 --> 00:33:17.720
getting to these things about your partner
that you still might not know and to

388
00:33:17.799 --> 00:33:23.720
keep exploring that together. Well.
And have you found as you've written the

389
00:33:23.759 --> 00:33:27.960
books, since you've talked to other
people, as you've gotten feedback and so

390
00:33:28.000 --> 00:33:35.319
forth, that that can be an
extremely valuable aspect of a relationships. So,

391
00:33:35.480 --> 00:33:39.319
you know, all relationships go through
challenges, but as as I've read

392
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and done some research on that with
you know, psychologists and other researchers that

393
00:33:45.640 --> 00:33:55.240
that intimacy can literally overcome and renew
those relationships even when you have some challenges

394
00:33:55.279 --> 00:34:00.000
coming up. Do you find that
that's the case. Yeah, yeah,

395
00:34:00.240 --> 00:34:04.599
so because if there's no intimacy,
then you start to maybe feel like more

396
00:34:04.640 --> 00:34:10.719
like roommates or friends. And for
that intimacy, if there's new things you

397
00:34:10.760 --> 00:34:16.079
want to explore together. I think
any new thing that you do as a

398
00:34:16.159 --> 00:34:22.239
couple, whether sexually or anything else, it does bring you closer together and

399
00:34:22.519 --> 00:34:27.880
make sure that you keep growing together
instead of growing apart. So trying any

400
00:34:27.920 --> 00:34:34.760
new thing it is something that people
should like maybe look into to keep things

401
00:34:34.800 --> 00:34:38.480
more fresh and to make sure that
you keep growing individually and together as well

402
00:34:39.039 --> 00:34:43.039
well. And you had on a
really good point because it's just not sexual

403
00:34:43.159 --> 00:34:52.360
because as a couple is able to
find activities and things that are common interests

404
00:34:52.440 --> 00:34:54.159
and sometimes that takes a little bit
of work to do that. But as

405
00:34:54.199 --> 00:35:01.000
they do that, then that sense
of intimacy emotional and intimacy comes together even

406
00:35:01.079 --> 00:35:07.079
more because now they are enjoying life
together and I think that that really makes

407
00:35:07.119 --> 00:35:14.639
a difference. So if you could, if you could summarize a message to

408
00:35:14.760 --> 00:35:19.960
the listeners today based on you know, in your stepping Stone book and some

409
00:35:20.039 --> 00:35:22.559
of your others. What would be
the message that you would like to share

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with the audience today that could elevate
them and help them in their relationships as

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well as their individual life of joy
and happiness. Yeah, so I would

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say it's not one size fits all. So if something doesn't work for you

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mentally, it doesn't mean that it
won't work. So just try different avenues,

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like for mental health resilience that might
work for you, like that there'll

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be something that maybe will click into
place. And also for relationships and just

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to keep communicating. I think as
long as it done in a respectful way,

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then it will only strengthen your relationship. And it doesn't matter if it's

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with a long term partner or if
you only want to go on casual dates

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with someone. Just to be honest
with your communication, just so that everyone

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feels respected and valued. Thank you, And you know, I think you

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hit on an important point. You
talked about going to therapy and it didn't

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work for you, Okay, you
talk about in your book, he goes

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to therapy, and we're assuming that
he starts to experience some positive results from

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that. And one of the reasons
I interviewed so many different people on the

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show and with different perspectives and different
approaches. Is because as you said,

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it isn't just one solution fits all, and people need to in my experience,

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need to be able to try these
different things until they find some thing

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that resonates with them to where they
go, Okay, this is helping.

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00:37:05.559 --> 00:37:08.079
It may be therapy, it may
be a life coach, it may be

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reading some of your books and then
doing that own personal introspection. So I

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really appreciate the fact that you talked
about that and the fact that you know

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what, not everything fits everyone,
But if you keep looking and trying,

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which is the key, You've got
to be willing to keep doing that,

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and ultimately they will find that solution
for them that can help them to start

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00:37:32.719 --> 00:37:37.800
to experience that joy and peace and
happiness in their own personal life as well

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as in their relationship. So,
Liv thank you so much for being on

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00:37:42.960 --> 00:37:46.800
the show today. I really appreciate
your thoughts and obviously the effort that you've

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gone into and writing these books to
help other people. Thank you so much

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00:37:51.880 --> 00:37:54.480
for having me, Doug. It
is not a one size fits all,

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00:37:54.679 --> 00:38:00.519
So yeah, just keep going and
the most important thing is to you need

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00:38:00.559 --> 00:38:04.440
to be willing to help yourself and
to willing to get better because I think

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00:38:04.480 --> 00:38:08.519
some people they they maybe not enjoy
is the right word, but they seem

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00:38:08.559 --> 00:38:15.440
to be fixated or like being stuck
in that one problem. Yes exactly,

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00:38:15.519 --> 00:38:19.400
and so thanks again and folks,
thanks for listening today. I'm sure you've

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enjoyed this. And Liv, how
can they reach out and find your books?

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00:38:23.440 --> 00:38:28.800
So? People can find me on
my website, So Livearnold dot com.

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00:38:29.239 --> 00:38:32.239
My books Etched in Stone, Stepping
Stone and Lauren Disorder, They're all

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00:38:32.280 --> 00:38:39.199
They're all available in all major online
retailers like Amazon, Barnes and Noble Coobo,

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00:38:40.119 --> 00:38:44.320
so all those things. Or they
can find me on my socials so

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00:38:44.880 --> 00:38:49.880
Liv underscore au that's what Twitter and
Instagram, or they can also find me

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00:38:50.079 --> 00:38:53.440
on my Facebook page, So Live
Arnold author. Thank you so much,

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00:38:53.719 --> 00:39:00.719
and folks, thanks for listening.
Hope you'll join us again soon. Thet

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fer To and with Air