Stepping Stone

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0:44 Denzel Washington, welcome to Inspire Vision. Our sole purpose is to elevate the lives of others and to inspire you to do the same. Lov Arnold, thank you so much for being on the show. How are you doing today? I'm pretty good. Thank you so much for having me. Oh it's great to have you on the show. And where are you from. I'm from Melbourne, Australia, so I've lived here my whole life and even lived in the same suburb pretty much my whole life as well. Oh wow, that's fantastic. Well, you know what you've You've written this wonderful book and it touches on a number of things. But I'd love for you to share the audience your background and how you came about writing this book. Yeah, so I write romance books. So I've written three books. So the first book is Lauren Disorder, which is an Enemy to Love as romance. But my two novels, so Etched in Stone and Stepping Stone, they're both in the same universe, so they're both standalone books. But both books are are based on a different female team member in an investment firm and they work in and done the analytics and an IT type team. And so the latest book, Stepping Stone, the main male character he has PTSD from being in the war in Afghanistan. And it's a second chance romance book. And I got inspiration from that because one of my friends served in Afghanistan and he said,

2:16 everyone that comes back has some form of PTSD, regardless of what role you do over in Afghanistan in the army. And he told me and gave me some insight on what to what are some of the signs of PTSD, like maybe a loud noise, a car backfiring and them getting a bit startled or scared, or being taken back to that place in Afghanistan in the war. So and some of these symptoms, it relates to anxiety. And since I've always had anxiety since i was young, I could relate to it, even though I've been nowhere near being in the war any things. I've got no idea what that's like. But some of them, like weddy palms, like clenching chairs, their symptoms of anxiety. So I use some of my physical symptoms to put into the character. Okay, and as you've done that, you're talking about how he experiences PTSD anxiety depression. But from what I can get a sense, you're really talking about your own personal experiences as well as his. And does the book really help people? Obviously it's fiction to some degree, but is the focus to really help people to be able to overcome some of the mental health issues and emotional health issues that they're experiencing. Yeah, it's hard to really overcome any emotional or mental health issues just through just

3:52 trying anything once. But I've been really grateful because I've had a lot of readers reach out to me or leave in a review saying the book really resonated with them. So majority of my readers, since it's romance, they're women. So they did say that they recognize a lot of their signs in my book, and they said it did make them feel less alone because with my book, it's very spoken about quite openly, and same with a lot of my interviews or anything that I do. I speak about having anxiety quite openly. So they said they really do like looking at my posts or my interviews because they do feel like it's not only them that's going through it, and it's something that's quite common for a lot of people to go through at some point in their lives. And I've had some women message me saying their partner has been through the war or they've had PTSD from something else, and they really they've seen a lot of their partner in my book as well. And in the book, is it situation where you discuss the relationships between someone who's been in the war and their espoused her, their significant other, and how they're able to repair and put that relationship back together again in a more holistic and positive way. Yeah. So it is a second chance romance and at

5:23 the beginning of the book. So the married couple, they're inner separation and part of what led to their separation was his PTSD symptoms and she didn't really quite understand. The main character, female character, Jenna, she didn't really quite understand the symptoms and wasn't quite prepared for it, and didn't really understand that it was all part of the science that he was having PATSD and not just something that he was just doing like that was making things bad for them both. And so it's a book where they work their way back to each other. They work on themselves individually and also themselves as a couple to make their way back into each other, and they grow a deeper understanding of each other. And do you kind of you know, and again I recognize as fictional, but you kind of do a step by step with each of the characters on how they go about individually doing that introspective work and then how they as a couple come together and do that introspective work as a couple. Is that part of what you have in there? So okay, so could you talk about that a bit from a standpoint of let's talk about him and then let's talk about her, or vice versa. Whichever you want to go first and talk about the steps that they take in order to number one, that self introspection, and then once we've done that, then we'll talk about how

6:54 they then come together as a couple and do that couple introspection together. Go ahead and start with her. Yeah, so with jen Jenna Kravitz, So with her. So she it's just at the beginning of the book, she's just angry with him, like because of the things that he's done. And one of the things he did was like when he got back from the war, is sometimes he went to places and didn't quite really know where he was. So at the beginning of the book, like they were separated for about a year, and the reason for their separation is because him her ex husband Marco, he went into a brothel with his friends, but since he was going through the PTSD symptoms, he didn't actually quite realize where he was.

7:44 And when a lot of brothels, especially when you go overseas, they look like a bar when you go in, and so he didn't realize where his friends was taking him to. And even when he went inside, he was still in this numb state. And as soon as he realized where he was. He left straight away, but she felt betrayed because like he went inside this brothel in the first place and thought it was like a betrayal of their marriage, and she didn't really quite understand that it was like part of his PTSD symptoms that you might be so out of touch, out of your body that you might not even know where you are. So yeah, she starts off as really angry with him and she went. So she's also wanting to date at that time as well, so she does go on dates with other like this other person, and and part of the book is also navigating like how she feels as a single parent. So they have two kids together, so she's navigating being a single mum. And and with this book, she also does have like some sexual desires that she never addressed with her husband at the time because she also saw it as quite taboo. So in this book there's also a five financial crime element to it, and she has to solve this financial crime element. And through her going on this journey of maybe what she wants in herself and going through like being having that confidence to address what

9:20 she wants and having that journey, like she starts to reflect on maybe things that he might go through. And in the book, the more they talk to each other, she starts to realize maybe she wasn't as understanding as she could have been, and part of something of what families of war soldiers get. They get brochures and support for things like PTSD and science to look out for. But she realized that she wasn't quite prepared for what she might be expecting and didn't realize a lot of the signs. And with the character Marco, he starts off like with doing an illegal boxing match, and he and that is something that a sign to look out for to actually go out looking for trouble or to like have that physical pain element because they still want to punish themselves. So he's doing that illegal boxing match, but at the same time he wants to get back together with Jenna. So some of the signs he's going through, like the PTSD, is he's drinking a lot. At work, He's overly concerned about safety. So for example, when one of his colleagues takes off their gloves, he goes like really angry at them, saying things can go wrong if you don't follow proper safety procedures. And that's something I heard from my friend who served in Afghanistan for people, like they're

10:50 very big on safety, and he's like that with his kids too, making sure they put on their seat belt and things like that. And so he's going through this journey, his own individual journey while trying to get back together with his wife and he's trying to like be better. So at the end, he decides to maybe go to therapy, which is I think something men in general aren't as willing to go to compared to women. And so he decides to give that a try. And that's sort of how the book.

11:31 It's sort of like how the book ends, like he decides to give therapy a go, and because before he was too proud to go. And I'm not saying that therapy works for everyone, but it's important to be able to look at different avenues to see what maybe works for you well. And I think that that's an important point. You know, you're talking about this relationship, and I think that that many many couples experience this type of relationship situation where they seem to be drifting apart. And it may be that, you know, if one of them has the PTSD and you know, anxiety or depression, whether it's the man or the woman, it can start to separate that relationship. And then and then you talk about her, you know, you know, having you know, finding starting to date and so forth.

12:26 But the other thing that you bring up is this concept of intimacy and the fact that that was part of the separation going on with them. Also for whatever reason that happens to be and I would suspect that part of it was because of his anxiety and PTSD and so forth. So as you look at that, and as you look at you know, trying to really help people who are reading your book to start to experience a change in their lives for the better, what do you find from the standpoint of number one, how do people become a little bit more aware and how do they become a little bit more willing to really address the issues. And as you as you mentioned, as you were talking about it, you know, she started to feel and experience a little bit of personal accountability for what was going on. How how do you help people or how do you see these people experiencing that, How do they become aware, how did they become willing and how do they start to accept personal accountability? For some of those issues that are going on in those relationships. Yeah, so it's difficult, and in any relationship it's not up to one person to fix the other, but like being married to

13:58 or dating someone with mental health challenges, that can be a big strain. So since I've always had anxiety, I didn't really realize he was anxiety at the time until so my husband when we were dating, so about like maybe a few months into when we were dating, he said to me, I think you've got anxiety. Maybe you should see the doctor because some of the things you're doing isn't quite normal because I'll be speaking around and around in circles, like when my thoughts are spiraling, and he sometimes says, dealing with me can be a full time job, so it can be like it's not easy for the other person to potentially deal with this, but like it's he with my husband, he does try to look up things to try to support me and to help me, and I think, even though it's not his job, I think it's important to sort of understand where they're coming from, so that I think at first it just seems like I was just worrying over nothing and I'm just an overworrior or I stressed easily and not it's generalized anxiety disorder. And that's the same with my book. So with Jenna in Stepping Stone, she didn't quite realize that it was PTSD, and it was.

15:16 And she just thought like, not in these words, but like in general, she just thought like he was just being difficult and not and not it's like an actual mental illness. And so she does start to read up a lot more about it and so that she can be that better support network for him. Well, and you know, and some of the things you're saying, I really love about accountability because here he finally had to start taking some accountability out of the sereum in what he was experiencing and what he was doing that was affecting the relationship to the point where he was willing actually to go and to therapy. And you're right, most men do not want to go into therapy. Yeah, it can be essential in those type of situations.

16:08 At the same time, she started taking accountability from the perspective of realizing that, Okay, you know, there's some things that I need to work on myself as well as the accountability. And you share this about your own husband of recognizing that the other person and what they're experiencing and the behavior that's coming from them really is about other things, it's nothing about you. And then the accountability of being willing to be there as a support structure to help them through those type of situations. To me that that is a key in healthy relationships. Yeah, I think so, And like, especially if you're going into it, I guess you sort of do know what you're getting yourself into.

16:59 So I've always had anxiety and I've always like overstressed a lot. So my husband perfectly knew this, like when we started dating, because we were friends first for about a year and we used to work together, so we were in the same team, so we would be seeing each other full time work, and since we were in the same friendship group at work, we would see each other quite a few times a week after work as well in the group. So he knew me quite well to the point where he didn't know that stressed over things. And same with their marriage, Like she knew at the point that he was a soldier in the army, and this is sort of like what like this is sort of like what's involved with being in a relationship with someone in the army, and like, it's not to say that you can't break up with a person or can't get out if it's not for you, but it's something that she thought that she was fully committed to.

17:56 And like both of them did take accounts ability. So with Marco, he he acknowledged that he did have outbursts sometimes like he was never violent, but he did have the outburst. He was very strict on, like even to the point of obsessed with security, like locking the doors multiple times and things like that, to the point where it might be a bit uncomfortable for his family, his wife and his two daughters. And same with her, Like, so she does acknowledge that statistically, men are less likely to get help then women. And even though Marco kept saying he was fine and sometimes like she realized that she took him too much at face value and he really wasn't fine and she should have really been maybe doing more or like recognizing the science that he wasn't okay. Well, and you know, it's easy, it's easy to when those things start to come up. And I think for a lot of people, some of these sayings don't actually show. Yeah, for six months to a year. In fact, some of the studies that I've read is it's a year to two years before that individual actually becomes who they really are. We've been so taught by society to be a particular way.

19:11 This is how we should act, this is how we should be, so on and so forth, and oftentimes people get into those relationships and a year later, six months, a year later, all of a sudden, the real person comes out, and at that point in time, then it really becomes the issue that you're talking about in your book. Do you just say you know, I'm out of here, or do you take the responsibility and awareness to be able to move forward and try to work on that? And I think what really becomes key is are both people willing to do that? Because if Marco was never willing to deal with his PTSD and those type of things, I can't imagine that she ultimately would have been able to stay.

20:00 Or if she was not able to deal with whatever she was going through and he was dealing with it, they would not have been able to come together either. So in your mind, what's the importance of both parties whether it happens before they're in the relationship, or whether it happens afterwards, is what is the responsibility of both parties in your mind to be able to work on that relationship to actually make it work. Yeah, they both need to play a part in it. So like he Marcro needs to take needed to take that responsibility that he did need help and acknowledge it, because if he just kept turning a blind eye and thinking he's fine, Like, it does start with the person wanting to help themselves. So it's really difficult for someone else, even if it's your partner for like ten years or over, to be able to save you or to help you get better. So it does start with that original person to take responsibility and have that acknowledgment that you do need support or or that you are experiencing some issues. And with Jenna, so she so she wasn't very understanding. And that was when I had when I was writing this book, I did have a critique partner, and I had people that originally read my book and they said to me, oh, like I was a bit put offside her because like she wasn't understanding at all.

21:32 And I did take that feedback into account and I thought that would be part of her character journey to so that to show her growth and and what she's like willing like and changing her mindset. So at the beginning, she's very stubborn, she's very like this is like I'm in the right and like, but that's part of her growth. So at the ends, like, the more she speaks to him is so just being angry with him and they're having more open conversations. The more she realized that she wasn't as understanding or supportive as she could have been. And you know, you you talk about the own personal experience that you have as I was going to, you know, read your bio and understand a little bit more. You talk about promoting mental healthness through your work and you practice what's called the whim hot Okay, how does that? How does that spell? So? W I M And then another word h O F. So he's a man from Iceland okay h r F Okay, all right? And can you share with the audience what that is and as you've applied that in your own life, what results have you experienced? Yeah? So, I like, I don't think it's a one size fits all for what might help improve us manage your mental well being.

23:00 So I have tried therapy with cognitive behavior therapy before, and I've tried low dosage anxiety medication and both of them didn't really work for me. And some people previously said to me, maybe it's because you didn't connect with the therapist that well. But I had about five different therapists and they were all perfectly lovely and nice, but I sort of came to the conclusion that talking is overrated and that wasn't helping me. So yeah, like, so I won't go there. And so my brother, he's a pharmacist, and he said, studies have shown that therapy it might not work for some people because it will keep you trapped in that cycle or like stuck in that cycle and reliving it, and that's why it might not necessarily help some people. And he said, like, the body is very much connected to the mind, and he said, you need to push yourself physically to to build that mental resilience. So with the whim Hoff method, I did his ten week program.

24:07 He's a man from Iceland that promotes cold water therapy and in the ten week program, it's it builds you up, like so for the first week it's meditation and breathing exercises, plus it's also the cold showers, but it starts off at about fifteen to thirty seconds. To the end of the ten weeks, I was doing ten minutes of the cold shower, and it's a dock to the system, like, like, I can't tolerate the cold like people. Whenever I told people this, They're like, oh, yeah, but I can't. I don't do well with the cold. But I'm probably worse than most people because in winter I'm wearing about five jumpers and sleeping.

24:56 I sleep with the electric blanket on high. So if I can do it, other people can do it as well. And it's a big shock to the system. And when I'm in the cold shower, I'm just thinking I really need to get out of here, like and all anxiety or stress goes out the window because I'm just thinking, I really don't like this. Well, And you talk about and he talked with this method, you talk about meditation. Talk a little bit about that and how you've approached that and the experiences you've had through meditation. Yeah, so it's a way to center yourself. So with his breathing exercises he gets in his classes, he gets people to concentrate on certain pressure points in their body and to lean into it so with like a stretching type pose, and to breathe into that pressure point so that it's like it promotes general wellness and the blood flow. And his meditation aspects is to picture the center of your brain like this and to just picture that and like that light that's coming through it. So it's a bit of mixture like that breathing exercise and the cold water therapy as well. So if he does workshops around the world, and part of his workshops is getting into ice water when it's among the snow, Oh my goodness. I grew up in Chicago and my stepdad put in a sauna in our basement and he would

26:26 take a sauna. He used to play football for Northwestern. He would take a sauna and then in the winter time he would run out and jump into the snow and roll over the snow and I'm going, how on earth can you do that? Yeah? Yeah, it's not fun like, but it does feel invigorating afterwards, like it's a good mental health racet. I think, so as you experienced that, what did you find emotionally released? But what actually was the result of doing that to the point where you know, other than freezing, where you were in there for ten minutes in the cold shower, what emotional release did you experience, a total clear of the head.

27:15 So sometimes when my mind is spirally, I just needed that rude shock to the system to snap out of it. And so it is that good release where at that time where I could stop, like stop my mind from racing. And after ten minutes, my body is actually shaking for like quite a long time afterwards, like a few minutes at least, and my skin has gone a bit red from the cold like being in there for so long. But it does feel invigorating, like I think, like okay, like so realistically a cold shower won't kill you. But but usually at the end it's usually quite satisfying that I made it through it. And it's a about my mind having like having that resilience and having and telling my body that my mind is in charge. And I think that relates to any physical activity like I started doing jiu jitsu and muay Thai a few months ago and and to help with mental resilience. And it is a good feeling because even during those sessions or classes when I'm doing it, it's a good mental health reset because I'm just I'm learning a new skill and I'm just thinking about not getting punched to the face during that time rather than anxiety. And it's interesting how as you're doing that, whether it's meditation or whether as you say, you know, physical activity that's specific towards a goal, that you forget all those anxiety

28:49 and those subconscious situations that are going on, and it starts to for you. And do you find that as you continue to do this that the anxiety and the returning and the recurrence of anxiety start to diminish in your life. Yeah, like I would say, I still have anxiety. So I've only been doing jiu jitsu and more type for a few months, but for me, pushing myself physically has been way more beneficial to me than any medication or therapy, which, like, since I've done them both for years, I just don't think that they work for me. And I know but and I know it hasn't worked for other people, but I know it's worked for other people as well. So I think it's important to know to even if one thing doesn't work, to try to find something else that does work. And so even though I've been doing martial arts for a few months. I find it really helps me. But sometimes I've had I've been quite on the edge up until I got to the gym, But as soon as I start getting onto the mat and trying to learn what the coaches teach, since I am trying to learn a new skill, my focus just goes on learning that new skill and trying to remember it and then putting it into practice. And since I'm quite a beginner, so with jiu jitsu, I get submitted quite easily and get into the bands or really uncomfortable positions. So with jiu jitsu,

30:23 the class ends with usually five five minute rounds with different people, where it's you're versing a different person for five minutes and I'm getting submitted like that whole time and getting choked and stuff like that, and that's pretty much all I'm thinking about. So you're pretty much getting punished for like twenty twenty five minutes at the end, So it doesn't leave room for other things. And you know, I know that at part of your bio you talk a little bit about you in your romance books that you include sexual wellness, and let's talk about that from a minute, And I look at that from a standpoint of intimacy, because I think that word covers a lot of different things. It's not only just the sexual wellness, but it gets into the whole relationship, the emotional relationship, that intimacy and so forth. But what have you found, because I'm assuming you really do help people with that type of thing in your books? What have you found? And you talk about Jenna and how she had been frustrated from an intimacy standpoint that was important to her that never she could never experience it initially with her as what do you find is important in a relationship from a standpoint of that intimacy And how do they communicate with each other? Because I'm sure that the individuals have different desires, different needs

31:55 and so forth. How do you find you weave that into the books to help people to develop a greater sense of true intimacy in every aspect in their relationship. Yeah. I think women in general, sometimes they might be shyer to express what they want sexually. So that's something Jenna struggling with at the beginning because there were things that she always wanted to try sexually. But even though she had been married to the same person for a long time, she was always too embarrassed to bring it up. And it is important to bring it up to someone that you're with, especially if you're with someone for a long time, because it does keep that open line of community communication going.

32:43 Plus it also keeps things a bit more fresh. And so that's something that she struggled with and that's part of the journey that she goes on to being more confident enough to be able to express that and not to be embarrassed of it and not to think like she's just being a bit weird. And for a marriage, like if you've been together for a long time, it's important for that open communication and just to like be able to think that you're still getting to these things about your partner that you still might not know and to keep exploring that together. Well. And have you found as you've written the books, since you've talked to other people, as you've gotten feedback and so forth, that that can be an extremely valuable aspect of a relationships. So, you know, all relationships go through challenges, but as as I've read and done some research on that with you know, psychologists and other researchers that that intimacy can literally overcome and renew those relationships even when you have some challenges coming up. Do you find that that's the case. Yeah, yeah, so because if there's no intimacy, then you start to maybe feel like more like roommates or friends. And for that intimacy, if there's new things you want to explore together. I think any new thing that you do as a

34:16 couple, whether sexually or anything else, it does bring you closer together and make sure that you keep growing together instead of growing apart. So trying any new thing it is something that people should like maybe look into to keep things more fresh and to make sure that you keep growing individually and together as well well. And you had on a really good point because it's just not sexual because as a couple is able to find activities and things that are common interests and sometimes that takes a little bit of work to do that. But as they do that, then that sense of intimacy emotional and intimacy comes together even more because now they are enjoying life together and I think that that really makes a difference. So if you could, if you could summarize a message to the listeners today based on you know, in your stepping Stone book and some of your others. What would be the message that you would like to share with the audience today that could elevate them and help them in their relationships as well as their individual life of joy and happiness. Yeah, so I would say it's not one size fits all. So if something doesn't work for you mentally, it doesn't mean that it won't work. So just try different avenues, like for mental health resilience that might work for you, like that there'll

35:50 be something that maybe will click into place. And also for relationships and just to keep communicating. I think as long as it done in a respectful way, then it will only strengthen your relationship. And it doesn't matter if it's with a long term partner or if you only want to go on casual dates with someone. Just to be honest with your communication, just so that everyone feels respected and valued. Thank you, And you know, I think you hit on an important point. You talked about going to therapy and it didn't work for you, Okay, you talk about in your book, he goes to therapy, and we're assuming that he starts to experience some positive results from that. And one of the reasons I interviewed so many different people on the show and with different perspectives and different approaches. Is because as you said, it isn't just one solution fits all, and people need to in my experience, need to be able to try these different things until they find some thing that resonates with them to where they go, Okay, this is helping.

37:05 It may be therapy, it may be a life coach, it may be reading some of your books and then doing that own personal introspection. So I really appreciate the fact that you talked about that and the fact that you know what, not everything fits everyone, But if you keep looking and trying, which is the key, You've got to be willing to keep doing that, and ultimately they will find that solution for them that can help them to start to experience that joy and peace and happiness in their own personal life as well as in their relationship. So, Liv thank you so much for being on the show today. I really appreciate your thoughts and obviously the effort that you've gone into and writing these books to help other people. Thank you so much for having me, Doug. It is not a one size fits all, So yeah, just keep going and the most important thing is to you need to be willing to help yourself and to willing to get better because I think some people they they maybe not enjoy is the right word, but they seem to be fixated or like being stuck in that one problem. Yes exactly, and so thanks again and folks, thanks for listening today. I'm sure you've enjoyed this. And Liv, how can they reach out and find your books?

38:23 So? People can find me on my website, So Livearnold dot com. My books Etched in Stone, Stepping Stone and Lauren Disorder, They're all They're all available in all major online retailers like Amazon, Barnes and Noble Coobo, so all those things. Or they can find me on my socials so Liv underscore au that's what Twitter and Instagram, or they can also find me on my Facebook page, So Live Arnold author. Thank you so much, and folks, thanks for listening. Hope you'll join us again soon. Thet fer To and with Air