Smart Conflict

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0:44 Denzel Washington, welcome to inspire Vision. Our sole purpose is to elevate the lives of others and to inspire you to do the same. Kat Newport, how are you. I'm doing really great, Doctor Doug, how are you? Welcome to the show, And you know, in so many ways, I'm so happy to be back in the US. Like it's ten o'clock here or ten thirty and in the morning, and normally I'm doing it at six or seven in the morning or seven or eight at night, So this is great to be to be here. Regular daytime hours. There you go, yes, amen, So I'm interested. I always love the backstory of what brings an individual to the point that they're at now where obviously for you you've written your book and you can talk a little bit about that, but also how you got to the point where you're really doing things to make a difference in people's lives.

1:42 So I started my corporate career a long time ago, like thirty years. I hate saying that, you feel terribly terrible, but yeah, I worked in the corporate world for thirty years in a leadership capacity. And what I did notice when I walked into corporate is relationships are so important and trying to figure out how to work with those relationships, particularly when there's a whole bunch of different perspectives floating around. No we should go this way, No we should go that way. And my skill set in this regard was not always the best. So over the course of my career, trying to figure out how to manage conflict, how to manage relationships in a workplace environment, spilled over into writing my books More Conflict. I became an accredited coach with the International Coaching Federation. I'm a certified change manager. If you want some conflict, try to change something in a corporate environment. And I work with families as well who are working on estate planning and estate management. A lot of conflict and choices that have to be made in that highly stressful environment. So really wanting to bring peace from discord and stepping into that space where I can be that conduit.

3:04 Oh fantastic, And certainly in today's world, conflict resolution has got to be one of the most important topics we could really talk about or learn in so many dynamics. I mean, you've got your family dynamics, you have your work dynamics, you have your societal dynamics. So why is conflict so different and difficult for so many people? Oh? Where do we begin? So human beings are social creatures, and anything that kind of brings us outside of that harmony and that social accord and that social comfort is very threatening. The brain kind of takes it is, Oh, my gosh, I'm going to be kicked out of the group and I'm going to die in the woods and get eaten by a bear. Not that that really happens very much anymore, but it does trigger that. That's so preservation piece in the human in the Human psychep. Number one, number two. We've been gathering skills on how to manage conflict since we first drew breath, so very very much from the moment we entered our families, we've been taught how to manage conflict for good or for ill, No judgment on my part, but we do have these conflict habits that we've built up over time that continually kind of play out unless we become aware of them and start figuring out which ones are good for us and which ones might need a little work to get us

4:35 to where we want to go in our goals. So there's a couple of games at play here, okay. And so as you say, there's when we talk about conflict resolution, many of us have been taught a positive way and many of us have been taught a not so positive way for conflict resolution, as you say, And you know what I find interesting is when you talk about conflict it goes to some real depths as far as I can understand, because if you say something to me that triggers me, then we all of a sudden have a conflict. But the question that is even maybe more important in my mind is why did I get triggered?

5:19 And do you find do you find that that aspect of conflict, as far as really delving into the emotions and the emotional reaction to an event or to a comment or whatever, plays an important role. Love that you brought this forward. It's in Smart Conflict, it's in the book. But when we're in a conflict moment and we get triggered per se, or something comes up for us, or we get that emotional reaction, what our brain is actually doing is trying to predict what happens next. We are not living in the moment discussing our difference of perspective, our difference of opinion. What the brain has done is gone, oh my gosh, I've had a discussion like this before. This is exactly like that situation, and it's never ever going to happen again, So I'm going to react in this way that happened before, so it doesn't happen again again. It's that self preservation. So instead of being present in the moment in control of that emotional reaction, we can sometimes get a little carried away with the oh my gosh moment of it, that triggering piece.

6:22 Well, and you know, I know that there's so many dynamics to this whole thing of conflict because you've got the emotional response, which I think is big. Another thing that I have always, you know, really found very fascinating and somewhat humorous but actually very true, is that there's somewhere within us where we have to be right. So you know, if you say something to me and I immediately let those emotions come up, and I get triggered, and now I'm going to give you my opinion, and quite frankly, you know what, I am always right and therefore, and you know, potentially you're gonna if it's not you, you know you're going to go, well, here's my emotional reaction, and I'm always right, and all of a sudden you have this huge conflict.

7:07 Absolutely absolutely, conflict is relational. So where there are two people, there will be conflict, and it's important to keep focus on that relationship. So if you must be right and I must be right, we're not focused on the relationship. If you're going to be right at all costs, what is that exactly going to cost you? What does the relationship with me look like after you've put your flag in the sand and said, I am right, and I am not moving. What does the future for us look like? So when in conflict, be very aware of that relationship, be it in a family dynamic, your partner, your children, whatever, or in a workplace environment. If you've got to work with Sally from accounting for the next however long you're with this company, you probably want to put some investment in that relationship. So it's not always a prickly relationship.

8:00 Well and you mentioned yeah, and that's true, And I think you know what I what I found is I've you know, coached different smaller companies. One of the first things I would say is what we're going to teach you here from a standpoint a model of management and success is so applicable in your personal life. And sometimes we went back and forth because obviously personal life affects business and business effects personal But as you talk about as you talk about family, for instance, what do you what do you find is the greatest cause of conflict within a family. And we can talk about the couple themselves, you know, the significant other and the married couple, and then we can talk about the children and the children conflict within themselves, and then the conflict between the parents and the child. There's three questions.

8:53 Well, you just stuck it them right over here. Okay, I think very much the answer You've already put it into our conversation. If I have to be right with my partner all the time, that's going to cause conflicts. I'm your mother, and I said, so there's there's that power dynamic again, there's conflict. I'm not engaging with the relationship with my child. Why is it you want to have peanut butter and jelly sandwich at ten o'clock at night, Now that you've woken up, you know there's no engagement at that point in that relationship. It's I'm in the I'm in the seat of authority, and you're going to do what I tell you. I think when I'm looking at these social medias and you see the little videos, I'm going to go start a fight with my partner because I'm bored. Just drives me right up the wall.

9:51 Conflict has a purpose. It brings us together. It helps us think outside the box because we're looking at different perspectives and moves us towards the future. So really understanding that and the purpose of conflict is not to beat the other one down, is not to put the other one in a box, is not to control the situation, but it's to grow and move and expand it really takes some of the sting of the word conflict in of itself. Well, and you make an interesting point. There are two different types of conflict. There's a healthy conflict and there's an unhealthy conflict. And if I'm understanding you correctly, that unhealthy conflict is when the emotions come in and I'm right and you're wrong, and all of that goes on, whereas if a conflict, quote a conflict, which is a healthy one comes up and you're right. The word conflict always has a negative connotation here, but as you're talking about the positive connotation that if you and I have a conflict, and if we're open to understanding why you're thinking this way, and you're open to my thoughts and we have that communication. I have found in many instances is all of a sudden, if I'm sitting and really listening and not always constantly trying to think what I'm going to say next, which is the negative conflict, I find that I gain some really important and valuable points that I hadn't thought of before.

11:19 Absolutely absolutely. When I'm working with organizations, I always bring in that let's think outside the box mentality. It's really hard to think outside the box when the only perspective you're willing to look at is your own. You're really tight in that box. Thinking outside the box requires the entertainment of other perspectives, of alternate solutions, and the best way to do that is actively listen and have that communication with the people around you. And this happens at home as well. You know, when you're with your partner, where are we going to go on vacation? Well? I want to go to Cancirn. Well I want to go to Alaska. You know, how does this work? Trying to figure out what's best for the entire group? That relationship piece super important.

12:05 Well, and you're kind of talking about it now, But I guess the next question I have is how do you go how do you go from that unhealthy conflict type of thing to a healthy one, and how do you do that as an individual? Because again, as we talked about this, this is family, this is work, this is societal. How does an individual get to the point where they can go from unhealthy conflict to healthy conflict number one, and I'm going to go to a baser question before that. Okay, how do we deal with helping an individual to realize that they are constantly creating a healthy conflict for them? And then if they can finally identify that, then how do they go to a healthy conflict?

12:54 When looking at conflict, the reflection should always start with self, look at what you're bringing into the situation. The Smart Conflict is the title of the book is actually based off a workshop where smart is an acronym that helps you sort of unpack the unhealthy part of conflict and restructure it into more healthy conflict. And you start at the esk, which is really understanding the situation. I've been in this kind of environment before, where we're having this this very heated discussion. Let's put am very heated discussion, and we are talking about two totally different things, and we don't quite realize that till we're about halfway through, going, oh, wait a minute, wait a second, we have two different things going on here, or possibly more so, really understanding the core of the situation. What are you in conflict about?

13:49 What has got your emotions so fired up? Because it's not necessarily your partner leaving the cap off the toothpaste tube. That's got you all fired up. This is the straw that broke the camel's back. There's something else that's going on. People don't get divorced over toothpaste. People get divorced over a lack of consideration, a lack of understanding, a lack of engagement, and a deterioration of a relationship. The toothpaste top is just a symptom. So it's really important to understand what you're actually in conflict about, and that requires self reflection before engaging with the other person.

14:32 Okay, so that's the s I'm going to take it through the m. Now am measured emotions. It's not the responsibility of someone else to make you feel better in this situation. Your emotions are your responsibility, understanding that the other person and the environment all play a role in those emotions, but what you choose to emote and what you choose to bring into the situation is your responsibility. So taking a pause, giving yourself some space and time to really understand why you're having the emotional reaction you are will help you move forward into the conflict without looking for emotional solace from the other person.

15:16 Okay, and we'll get back to all of these, but I appreciate you you just the short description there, the a. A having an agenda and not the underhanded, nefarious kind of agenda amending agenda. Sometimes when we get into conflict, we don't know what we want out of it. We're just in conflict. For you, the emotional relief, whatever it is. Knowing where you're going and what you want out of this conversation, this conflict conversation is super important. So go in with that agenda and share that agenda with your conflict partner. Okay, all right, and then they are I'm writing these down. I really like them. R is the relationship. This is the key. I focus on the relationship.

16:03 Okay, and that you want to have it. You want to have a relationship, not necessarily. I mean, this conflict could be the end of our relationship, doctor jog you know, could be the end. This is where that agenda comes into play. If you're breaking up with someone, for example, you're you're terminating an employment contract, or you're you're moving towards a divorce, you know that relationship is going to end, so it doesn't necessarily have to mean that you're building the relationship or investing in it. It could be how do you want to consciously move away from this relationship? Okay, So it's really focusing on the relationship and what's the goal? Correct? Okay, good? And then the tea. Time and place. You don't have to have the conflict right now. It's like, you really want to talk to your boss about what happened in the meeting, but they're running out the door to a client meeting. That's probably not the best time to have a conflict conversation with your boss. It's not going to go well. So pick the time, pick the place to get the best possible outcome.

17:04 All right, So let's let's talk about getting on a more personal basis. You know, we have a conflict. We're we're working somewhere together and somehow something comes up where I'm trying to go this way, You're trying to go that way. We're in a situation where we have to work together. How do we how do we deal with that in a in a highly positive way to take that conflict away from a negative conflict to a positive conflict that comes up with some positive results. Right, This is where the first three come into play. What is the situation? What are we in conflict over?

17:44 Is it because we want to do the same thing in two different ways? And if so, we need to take a look at that. Let's think outside the box. What's your idea, what's my idea? And we may come up with you hat a third idea together. So really understand what the situation is, and when we're in a workplace in that situation also includes what the organizational goals are. If you want to do something one way, I want to do something another way, but the organization wants something else, We're both going to be in a bit of sticky situation. So there's a third player when we're dealing with that emotions. Yes, I might be annoyed with you, but I do have to work with you for however long both of us remain with this organization. So I really need to take a look at it. Yes, I'm frustrated, But does that mean I have to walk into a room, pound my fist on the table, shake my finger at you, and call you names. No, it does not. It might make me feel better in the moment, but in the long term, when I'm sitting in front of hr might not be the best off. They're really understanding and addressing your own emotions and then really understanding the agenda. Where are we going with this conflict? You want to do it one way, I want to do it another way. But what are we trying to do. We're trying to service the client, So what does a client need and how do we do that? So really have that open agenda where do we want to be at the end of it? So the first three really come in important here. Understanding relationship and time and place are also floating in the background,

19:14 but those first three are super important at the workplace. Well, and it sounds to me like you're really talking a lot about communication. And I don't know how well we've been brought up or taught. I can't think of a class in grade school or middle school, or high school or even college about communication. Now. When I went back for my certification with business Consulting, while we did a whole thing on communication. But you know, it seems like most people have never really been taught, quote the real art of communication. What are your thoughts about that?

19:55 And you have a way to explain how to communicate in a way to eliminate those negative complex. It can occur. Absolutely, I completely and totally agree with the observ me. Where I kind of want to start with this is the universe gave us two ears in one mouth. We should be listening twice as much as we talk, really sitting down and engaging with the other person and hitting pause on all the conversation killers that kind of float around in our head. Judgment, Gee, that was a stupid idea. Judgment kind of floats around in there pretty hard that one couples with bias building a rebuttal in my head is like, oh, yeah, he said something right at the beginning that I really want to talk about, and I'm not really listening to the rest of it because I'm stuck on that moment that I really want to come back at you with, yeah, being distracted. I cannot tell you how many meetings I've been in where people are on their phone and then go, gee, I missed that.

20:56 Can you repeat that? There's no act of listening here. So these are some of those conversation killers that come up that really derail our communication. And all of these are actually listening side of the communication, because when we talk, a lot of us are really good at it. The listening part. A lot of us are really bad. At it well. And you know what comes to my mind is, as you know, I've been out of the country for a number of months and over in. Thailand, and I do not speak Thai. I just don't. And so as I'm working with friends and talking and communicating and if they don't speak English, is like we start to use Google Translate. And what's fascinating is that I can tell you that the words that they use in Thai, that when it comes out in English sometimes can be really confusing and sometimes a little bit offensive.

21:57 And so what I found is I had to type back and say I'm not sure I understood, rather than immediately taking defense emotionally at what was said, and oftentimes going through that two to three times, all of a sudden, what they're really saying comes out and now I understand. And how true is that of our normal experience, where you know, we're all speaking the same language and we never take the time to ask. And explain what they really mean. Very much, So I love that you've brought this out. The making of assumptions that your definition of a certain word or a certain phrase or a certain idea would be the same as mine. I mean, we're both speaking English, but we're from two different countries, so my cultural reference is going to be different than yours, so we immediately have a bit of a disconnect. So what you're talking about is to my mind, and what I'm hearing you say is respond with curiosity. So ask what you mean, Ask the definition of some terms, so that you really understand what's coming across, as opposed to making the assumptions that they meant to be offensive. Oh, they meant to be hurtful. What did you mean by that? I'm not quite sure. I understand. These are wonderful questions to help you not jump into judgment, bias and assumption.

23:26 Well, and you know, in the entry, as you said, the focus has to be on the other individual, and I don't know that that really ever exists as much as it should, Whereas you know, as people start to talk and communicate, the focus really needs to be on the individual. What are they saying. I'm not going to judge from what you were saying. I'm not going to judge what they're saying, but I want to be curious and ask more questions so that I really understand before responding and we all have this habit of one and response so quick much so. And this is what I see in the workplace is because we have five generations working in the workplace now existing in the workplace, there are very different expectations on communication and making assumptions is very very common at this point. Well, this is the way I've communicated my entire career, and now we're dealing with someone who's brand new in their career, who's been brought up in a different societal structure, that just a different perspective. I mean, every generation has it, so it really becomes important that even if you're in the same workplace, in the same city, in the same time zone, that we do have to respond with curiosity because each and every individual's experience is unique.

24:51 Yeah, and you know what you just said, Well, I found really interesting is you know, we use words to communicate eight but the reality is that the meaning behind those words is individualized. Yes, very much so. And in a workplace that means if you are a leader or either formal or informal, the focus now has to go from command and control into empathetic leadership. You are there to support folks to do the job and get the best possible performance as opposed to just do the job, get it done. We have to bring in that humanity.

25:39 Yeah. And you know, as we talk about communication, there's really three elements of communication, because there's the words, there's the body language, and then there's the tonality that goes on. Are you familiar with those three? I am. Indeed, the book actually has chapters on each of these. Okay, explain it a little bit. Then I take some time and explain it because I think it's really important for people to understand when they're trying to figure out how to communicate better. Absolutely so, when we're communicating the words we want to say, we spend a lot of time trying to figure this out.

26:19 How do I say this so they don't take offense? How do I say this so that they don't get upset. You can have the best possible phrasing, but if you're delivering it with a facial expression that could freeze stone, it's ever going to come across well. If you're nervous and that's coming out in your body language, be it twitching, be it clicking your pen, be it whatever, it's not going to come across well. So making sure that you have synchronicity between what you want to say, so the actual words, your facial expressions, your body language, so how you're moving your hands, what kind of eye contact are you making, How are you standing? What's your foot placement? Like, are your hands on your hips? Are they crossed over your chest? All of these give different messages. And then of course there's cadence and tonality of your voice. If you speak really really quickly, you sound less confident. You sound nervous. If you're too slow, you sound unconfident. If you're picking your words or pausing too much, if you're squeaky and high, if you're deep and low. All of these change the meaning of the words, even if the words are the exact same said with a different tonality or a different facial expression. It's a really a package deal when you're coming into communication, which is why when we hit COVID and we all of a sudden went onto screens, we're losing like eighty percent of the body

27:51 language here you got me from like collarbones up, so you're losing a lot of that communication. The rest of it becomes even more important. What's Kat's tone, like, how's her eye contact? Is she looking at the camera. I do flail around a lot. I'm a hand talker, so it kind of helps. But she's so so all of these things have to work together to get that message across in the best possible way. Well, and as you're coaching people, can you can you share a story without you know, making it personal? Can you share a story where that conflict method, the smart conflict mytho that has actually changed the outcome for someone?

28:35 So let's see, I've got a couple so I trying to figure this out. The story that kind of comes to mind here is working with an individual. I was working in HR at the time, so human resources at the time, and they had an issue with a colleague and they just were not getting along. Just just cats and dogs, not good good. So they had come in to me to say, look, I can't work with this individual anywhere. We took some time together and we really started to unpack what's the situation? So what is it that that's really not working. In the beginning of that conversation, it was really well, they do this, and they are this, and they do they they they they they all the things that they were doing wrong. And as we talk that slowly moved back so what part are you playing in this communication link? So how are you engaging with this individual? And we started getting that self reflection piece.

29:46 So instead of demanding that they either be transferred to another work location or that the other person be fired, which is what they came in asking for, what ended up happening is we ended up making a plan and a gen that had them go back into the workplace and just change some minor ways they were interacting with this individual. Instead of leaving notes on the desktop, you know, really clean the desk off, you know, you really got to do this. You've got to do that, don't forget to do this, they actually started engaging verbally with this individuals, using eye statements, using you know, this is what we're trying to accomplish. How can I help you get there? And this really started changing that relationship. They never loved each other, they were never best friends, they never went out for drinks. You know, they did take the pressure down in that relationship so that they could work together every day without demanding the other be fired.

30:47 Well, you know, it's interesting. I have four kids and experiencing the way I talked to them and how that affects them is so interesting because, well, you know, I'm a high strong personality. I don't know if you're familiar with the DISC, the D, I, S C, but you know I'm a high D. And so I've learned that I can come across offer my opinion, so on and so forth, and come across strong, assertive and so forth. Whereas you have the you know, and that's left brain, you have the right brain people who are more empathetic, who you know, really want to understand and so forth. How do you balance that out? How does an individual.

31:30 That's really just has that natural strong personality literally learn how to balance that out and bring in some empathy and understanding that they're usually probably not used to doing. I love these self assessments because they help with that self reflection. I've also seen these assessments go very very wrong going into a workplace doing the assessments. Well, I'm a D, which means you've got to act and talk to me like I'm a D. And you've got to deal with it because I'm a D even though you're an I. I don't care. You know, I'm a DC. You've got to deal with me this way. So be very careful when putting that label on for starters. This is about self awareness and how you then interact with other folks. So this is I can be solution oriented.

32:22 I can be very quick with providing my opinion. So if you know these things, ask what's your opinion before you give yours? Open it up to the table or in this case, your children before you say, this is my opinion. So if you know what your your hiccups are, you can start planning on working around those hiccups. Well, I'm very directive. I'm just going to give directions and everybody's going to do it because this is the best way to do it. I'm also a D. The way to do it it's taking a moment and saying how would you do this? How do you want to move forward with this? And then being okay with being uncomfortable with the moment going m I wouldn't do it that way, but we can try.

33:20 Here we go, Well, I'm a DC, so I have learned in fact, and you brought it up. I did you know what I do is I finally sat down with my kids when I physically figured this out, and as they start talking to me, I'll always ask the question, do you want me to listen or do you want my opinion? And a lot of the times I just want you to listen, I don't want your opinion, and other times it's like, no doubt, I'm really I want your opinion. I'm really questioning that. So I think a question like that makes such a big difference in being able to do that. Now you talk about you know, the evaluations, and I love it. I actually did one a few years ago, went into become a small company with about four or five employees. They were having some conflicts.

34:05 And what I did, and so that's how I use the profile a bit is we sat down and we discussed each of the meanings of the personalities, how they normally communicate, how that can be difficult for someone who is a different personality style, and how they want to be communicated with. And all of a sudden, changing it from Ara. You're dealing with a D. They if they forget and they start coming across hard, just sit back and smile and going, hey, you know what your d's coming out, But let's talk about this in a more empathetic way. And what I found is if they can understand that without having the ego of this, I'm that it really makes a difference. And also understanding that you can change a lot of that, particularly within the societal range.

34:53 Very much so. Just because you're labeled something like the IENTTJ. Of the Myers Briggs guilty. You know, just because you've been labeled, that doesn't mean you cannot change. That's the great part of the human existence. Once you become aware of something, you have the free will to change how you interact if you want to. You know, so really understanding that that relationship piece again we're back to that are what does that relationship need to look like? Yes, you have habits. I have habits. Everybody has habits. How do I react when one of those habits comes out? That curiosity, that empathy and seeing the other person as precisely that a person as opposed to this is my child or this is the annoying person From accounting, it becomes very very different on how you reinteract.

35:49 Yes, yes, and how do we do this when we go into the larger conversation of society. I mean, right now, we have got so much conflict going on. You you go to you know, whatever news you happen to listen to. If you go to the other news, you're gonna you know. And even when you hear all of this conflict, you go to you go to TikTok, and oh, my goodness, I'm amazed at the conflict that is there, that they and no one's there. They just talk about and talk about it. How do we how do we bring about a sense of greater peace and greater communication within the larger field, because right now I think it's destroying our country.

36:33 So not my area of expertise. So when we're looking at societal conflict, when we're looking at international conflicts, we're looking at high conflict, it's important and the person that comes to mind for me, it's important to understand that there is only one person on this planet you can control. And if you've ever had teenagers, you know it's not them. Yes, there's only one person you can control, and that is yourself. So my question is is what assumptions are you making when you engage in the wider societal conflict? What assumptions are you making when you choose to look at TikTok, when you choose to look at CNN or Al Jazeera, You make these choices to consume the content. Yes, we're being bombarded with it. But nobody asked you to open Instagram.

37:28 You choose to do that. You choose what shows up on that feed. So really understanding what messages you're choosing to consume and then how you choose to react with the wider world I think makes a huge impact. Here well, And as you talk about I think this is important as we talk about what we consume, whether it's TV shows or TikTok or any kind of social media, how does that affect our ability to have a healthy conflict discussion versus an the healthy one.

38:08 Welcome to bias. I love algorithms. Algorithms give you what you look at. They give you what you want. So if you're looking for pro Palestinian or pro Israeli, or you're looking for BLM or you know, it gives you more content that you consume, Welcome to confirmation bias. If all you're looking at is one type of feed that's pro this political party or pro whatever, that's the only information you're consuming. The question then is is what's the other side of that conflict? What are the other sides of that conflict? What are the other opinions? We very rarely will actively go out and look at the other opinions.

38:56 We get stuck in looking at things that make us comfortable. I follow this political party, Therefore, I believe that this political party is putting out and I only really want to hear the message of my political party, and I don't want to hear anything from any of the others. La la la la la. But they will have different ideas, they will have things that could potentially have solutions. So it's really important to get that balanced piece and don't get so locked into that one perspective. Keep more of an open mind. And the algorithms do not help with that. The more one thing, that's all you're going to get. Well. And I'm reminded of a study here, a report that I saw about, you know, one of the particular situations that has come up in the news about people objecting to whatever, and they showed that after they researched it out, arrested a number of people, they figured out that thirty to forty percent of that group. We're active agitators that go from place to place to place and create that agitation and then get the people around them to be affected by that to the point where they become part of it. Also, when in fact that may not be necessarily their original purpose or personality, but someone can affect another individual to become agitative even though they may not be.

40:26 Welcome to mob mentality. I have a long history in security management, so in personal security, that kind of thing, and when we're dealing with crowds and that kind of thing, this does come to the forefront that when you're in a social group, and you have the anonymity of the social group, and you have the support of the social group in a particular direction, you're more likely to go against your personal belief system. You're more likely to engage in behavior that you wouldn't typically have engaged in before. And we can see this with the Riots. After my favorite hockey team loses a game. Yeah, and I. Wouldn't normally go around breaking storefronts, but today I did because of that mom mentality that I'm an anonymous piece of a group. So it is very much a psychological thing, and there's a lot of folks out there who've done a lot of studies on that.

41:23 So yeah, well, and as we get to the rit cause, and that's something I really believe. It doesn't happen all of the time, and yet I think it's so essential as we get to the rit cause of these things, how does an individual who may be caught up in those type of things, how do we get to the point where we can become that person that when someone starts to try to instigate this, we just smile and say, you know what, no, thank you. When someone says something that initially we could take really seriously offensively, we can sit back and just smile and again ask the question, I'm not sure I really understand. Can you explain this a little bit further so I can understand better?

42:07 How do these individuals do that? There's a couple of things that come to mind. One is that emotional piece. You can self solace. You don't have to react to feel better. You can sit in the discomfort, and that does take practice. The other piece that comes to mind here is really understanding your personal values. I work with a lot of clients and this is usually something that comes up fairly early in the coaching relationship. What are your personal values? And I'd say eight times out of ten I get somebody staring at me kind of blank, going what do you mean? Like? No? No? Like your values? How do you live your life?

42:48 How do you engage with people. Where do you want to go? You know, what are your personal values? And unless you're really thinking about those personal values and understand how you want to live those personal values, it's very easy to get pulled off to the side of the track by someone else's firmly held personal values. So I would recommend and take pen to paper and do that journaling and really, how do I live? What do I believe in? What are my values? A lot a lot of us have done. That well, and a lot of times initially we will discover the quote our values or the values of the parents, the teachers, the religion, whatever, and when we really look at it, we realize that, no, We've got to figure out what truly are my values. And I think that that makes a big difference. So as we come to close, Kat, I'm just curious as to a message that you would like to share with the audience that you think would be important for them to understand.

43:55 Conflict is not inherently bad. Conflict as the potential to generate growth if you're open and willing to engage with other folks. Okay, thank you, Kat, this has been interesting. This must be a fascinating thing that you do as far as conflict goes and trying to help people to resolve that, that's got to be fascinating very much. So, and I've learned a lot a lot over the years that have helped drive my own personal values. So yeah, it's definitely a passion project for me. Well, and how do people find your How do people find your book? And how do people find your website?

44:44 The easiest place to get a hold of me is triplewsmartconflictbook dot com, or you can connect or follow me on LinkedIn. I'm pretty active on there, so if you want some more tips and hints and insights, it's all on the LinkedIn. And is smart Book on Amazon also and those different locations. Absolutely, you can get Smart Conflict from Amazon in paperback, hardcover or on Kindle. And if I'm an individual rather than a business situation, am I going to gain a lot from a focus on an individual versus a business? Very much so? The book talks about that relationship piece in context, So how do I look at myself, how do I look at conflict? And how does that manifest whether I'm at home or at work? So it is definitely written for a wide audience.

45:35 Great, Well, Kat thanks so much, and folks, thanks for listening. Hope you enjoyed this, and please get a hold of the book take a look out. I think you'll find some really fascinating stuff. So this is doctor Doug saying Nama stay