School Climate and Culture - Time to End Bullying

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This program is designed to provide general
information with regards to the subject matters covered.

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legal counseling, professional service, or
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services of competent professionals before applying or
trying any suggested ideas. At the end

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of the day, it's not about
what you have or even what you've accomplished.

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It's about what you've done with those
accomplishments. It's about who you've lifted

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up, who you've made better.
It's about what you've given back. Denzel

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Washington, welcome to Inspire Vision.
Our sole purpose is to elevate the lives

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of others and to inspire you to
do the same. Clitis, how are

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you doing, h I am doing
fantastic. It's really great to have you

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on the show. I'm really excited
about what we're going to talk about today.

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It's very interesting. As you know, I'm in Thailand right now,

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and I actually it's fascinating. I
have a friend that has been listening to

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the broadcasts and shared with me that
her son was being bullied. Eight year

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old son was being bullied in school
because he was speaking English and no one

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else did. And not only was
he bullied by his peers, but the

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teacher was actually bullying him. And
I thought, you know what, this

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is going to be a great conversation
to have on the show. So I

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really appreciate you being on the show. What I'd love for you to do

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for the audience is share who you
are and how you kind of got to

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the point where you're doing what you're
doing well. In two thousand and two,

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I was the successful bidder on a
contract to evaluate every school district in

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the state of West Virginia. And
it took me almost a year to travel

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from district to district in every school
district in the state of West Virginia,

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and I interviewed thousands of students and
teachers, and I also collected data on

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character education, twenty eight character traits
their behavior, and on eleven indicators of

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school culture and climate. And out
of that had I collected, I said,

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Wow, I know so much about
what goes on in schools that I

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need to write a book now.
Before I got this contract, I've been

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a starting in nineteen sixty four,
I started as a German history teacher and

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Cincinnati, Ohio, and graduated through
the ranks from assistant principle through assistant school

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superintendent to superintendent, and along the
way got a doctorate degree in social psychology.

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Social psychology is an interesting feel because
it's the study of how individuals behave

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in groups. Psychology is the study
of individuals, Sociology is the study of

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groups. Well, how an individual
behaves in groups is social psychology. Now,

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with that background and as a kid
being bullied, I was five to

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four and weighed one hundred and twenty
five pounds when I graduated from high school,

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I was a little kid. Six
months later a weigh one hundred and

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forty five and I'm five to eight. If only I could have been a

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senior at that age, I would
have then left alone. But because I

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was the littlest kid in class,
every Tom, Dick and Harry, beginning

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with the Freshmans, thought they could
beat up on me. In my case,

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it made me tough. In many
cases, being bullied does not make

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you tough. It makes you do
things to cope with being bullied. And

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that's how I got into bullying behavior
and the things we're going to talk about

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Mark. I think I've been for
the past in two thousand, in two

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thousand and three, let's see,
in nineteen ninety three, I retired as

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a school superintendent. That went into
being a college professor, and that's how

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I got the background to become an
evaluator of State Department the State Character Initiative

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in West Virginia and got that contract. I've done bullying behavior. I've got

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nationwide data collected on bullying behavior in
schools. And let's see Newark, New

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Jersey, California Boy Scouts where I've
collected data. With that, I've worked

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with a national expert on bullying behavior
called doctor Alan Bean. He's got his

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program that he's worked with. That's
pretty much my background, all right.

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And you know, it's so interesting. You mentioned so many different areas.

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You talk about school, You talked
about the Boy Scouts, and that really

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strikes a nerve with me because I
have one son. I have to be

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very careful about this because this is
going to be broadcast, but I have

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one son that literally was bullied by
his leader. And I'm not sure that

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they would admit that, but it
was the case. And so my question,

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as you've done all of this research, what what is the background of

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bullying? Why why is it that
a young individual? Well, boy,

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yeah, there is you know.
I mean we're looking at elementary school,

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we're looking at high school, we're
looking at college, and we're looking probably

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in the workforce. Also, we're
not looking at shooter. You're looking at

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shooters. Shooters are the biggest bullies
there are. Oh yeah, yeah,

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absolutely. What is it that causes
someone to bully another individual? Well,

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actually, if you look at shooters, whom I consider the ultimate bullies,

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because they're not only bullying, they're
killing. They're getting back at people that

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they don't like. That's what a
bully does. They don't like you,

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and they think they can do it. They're going to do it with a

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gun. You can do what you
want. It all boils down to what

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are lives? Five basic needs?
Okay, okay, you are a human

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being. You have five basic needs. Now you can go all the way

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back to biblical times. I forget
the guy's name who did a thing on

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one of the needs, which is
power. But back in the nineteenth century,

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the first philosopher came along and he
says, why do people behave the

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way they do Okay, so they
began trying to answer that question, because

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it is an interesting question. Why
do you behave the way you do?

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Most people don't ever think about that. Yeah, what are those needs?

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Well, the psychologist says, well, one of the reasons they behave the

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way they do is because they all
want to live. Being alive is important.

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That's a need. And of course
you take that on a scale of

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one to ten. On one end
is death or the fear of death,

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and on the other end is no
fear whatsoever. Zero. Well, in

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between you've got stress, anxiety,
violence, anger, and bullying, and

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then scared fear, death, maybe
even death all the way on that scale.

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Well, that's one of the needs. Another guy comes along and says,

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oh, no, there's more to
it than that. Everybody wants to

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be happy. Life with no happiness
is no life. You can't be happy

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all the time, But do you
have to have moments of happiness? Well,

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along came Nietzsche, a famous philosopher
an agnostic too, by the way,

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in the late nineteenth century, So
we're going way back to these guys

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trying to figure out why people behave
the way they do. He says,

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oh, yeah, I think you're
right, but there's a more important need.

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And here's where the bully fits in. He says, it's power.

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People want power. And if you
just think about what's going on in the

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United States today, in Congress,
in the world, in Iran, in

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Russia, in China, in the
United States with Trump, with Biden,

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the Dems, and the Republic,
it's all about power. Yeah, yes,

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power is. It's what people have
wanted forever. It goes back to

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the Devil and the Lord. This
control for power. God decided was tired

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of messing with the devil, so
he kicked twelve angels out of the out

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of heaven. You know, it
goes way back. It goes back to

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Adam and Eve in the garden.
The devil got control power over Eve,

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Yes, control over Adam. You
see that power is a fundamental sort of

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power. And I agree with Niatsure
completely. It's still so true today.

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It's just amazing how much power.
And that's where the bully is. But

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before we zero in back to the
bully, let's cover the other two.

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Yes, needs okay, and they
aren't anything crazy. It's just so common

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sense. The next guy comes along
and he says, well, yeah,

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but what if nobody cared about you, you got this power. Nobody cares

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about you. How does that feel? What if you wake up one morning,

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Mark and realize that nobody in the
world cares about you as a person,

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You're just nothing. That's a horrible
feeling. In a marriage, when

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one spouse doesn't care about the other, what happens to the marriage? It's

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gone? Yeah, it goes by
bye. And what happens to kids in

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a school when they believe the teachers
don't care, when they believe the other

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kids don't care, and you're an
isolate in that school? Uh huh,

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Yeah, here's where the bully comes
in. Who does the bully target?

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He targets an isolate somebody who is
alone. Nobody wants them for their friend.

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And in my book I describe how
to how to stop that. If

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you want to come back to that, we'll go with yes, we definitely

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will come back to that. And
then what was the fifth? What was

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the fifth? One? Fifth?
One is recently you've had oh the Seven

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Purposes the book? I haven't think
he's written a book on the the Seven

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Purposes of life? Warren Rick Warren
remember that, I've not read it.

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Yeah, I've not read it.
He basically said life with no purposes is

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no life, and of course the
doctor maymon oz on TV has stated the

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same thing, life with no purposes, no life. Goes back to Gandhi,

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who also stated purpose in life is
what makes life worth living. So

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you've got the five purposes. You've
got this freedom from fear and anxiety,

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happiness, control, carry, and
purpose. Here's a kid, the bully

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okay, has a high need for
control, wants to control. So he

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finds some kid that nobody cares about, perfect victim, and that's the person

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he gets control over. He gets
this great feeling of control. Well,

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why does this bullying have this knee
for this control? Well, that was

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the question I was going to ask
you, because you know, there's always

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it's interesting how we talk on a
peripheral and you're not doing this, but

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you know, so often we talk
on a peripheral basis. I used to

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have patients come in and I've told
this before, but I always smile about

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it. They would come in and
say, oh, doctor, I have

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TMJ and I'm going, well,
wait a minute, you have too.

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Actually you have a joint on the
right side and a join on the left

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side. So what's your symptoms?
Oh well, I'm having headaches or this

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or that or that, and it's
like, okay, now let's get to

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the real issue of what is the
real cause. So I appreciate you bringing

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that up, because as we look
at bullies and as you were talking,

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one of the first things that came
to my mind was, so, what

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is it that causes that young man
or young woman to need that power,

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need that control, or a teacher
that needs that control to the point where

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they will actually bully a student and
those type of things, whether it's a

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child or an adult. What is
it behind there from a sociological and psychological

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standpoint, that causes these people to
have that need to bully? Well,

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now, this is theory only no
I get that. No data on this,

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just like there's no data when Nietzsche
came along and said power is what

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causes? Is what the most important
need for why people behave the way they

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do. There's no data, it's
just speculation. It's theory, but when

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experts agree on it, it gets
some support. There are people who theorize

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that the reason why the bully bullies
is because they themselves were bullied by their

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parents. So parents out there who
are listening to this. Here's what you

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need to do. If you want
your kid to grow up with a healthy

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perception, a healthy grasp of what
then are needs for control are in their

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life. You need to give control
to your kids without giving it up.

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Now, that's a secret. That's
the leadership thing that if we maybe sometime

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in another few we'll get into.
What are the nine ways people control other

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people? There are nine ways.
Parents use them all the time. If

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you don't give your kids control,
how do you give them control? Well,

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there are five powers by forms of
power that you use to give control

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all the kids. My forms of
power that a leader uses to give control

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to subordinates. Well, let's talk
about that. Let's let's talk about the

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nine powers real quick because we have
time. So talk about what those nine

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powers and then talk about the five
powers. Okay, so we'll talk about

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Okay, we're going to go to
the forms of power and okay, trying

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to understand why the bully needs this
power and how they use it. Okay,

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right, there are four controlling forms
of power. So a leader are

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a parent gives control to their kids
with the five forms and when they don't

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do what they're supposed to do,
the parent takes it back. That makes

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sense, hmm, yeah, that's
what most leaders do. Successful leaders in

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organizations give control to the people out
there because they can't supervise everything all the

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time. So the people have to
do what they're supposed to do. So

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the forms of power, the freeing
forms, cause that to happen. When

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it doesn't happen, the leader has
to take it back. Because if you're

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a leader and you give control of
somebody and they don't do what they're supposed

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to do and you don't take it
back, what happens to your leadership,

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right, no doubt, you lose
it. And most parents don't know that.

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They don't realize that there is this
give take thing. You have to

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give power to people. Now,
if parents don't give power to their kids

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and badger them and control them,
this kid's need for control, he doesn't

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have it, so he goes he
tries to find a place to get power

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back, and he does it with
animals, kills them. You know,

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the early signs are there with this
kid who's having this, who is a

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potential bully in the future. It
usually acts out with animals first, because

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if you're tender and carrying to animals. You're not trying to control them,

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you're loving them. Right, So
now you've got to remember Mark, I'm

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eighty five and I sometimes wander here, so you've got to control and bring

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them. Okay, don't just remember
that. I can get off on a

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tangent here and you don't need that. You know, you're listeners, So

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stop me when I'm going too far. And I lost my train of thought.

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That okay. So yeah, we
were talking about how parents don't give

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power to their kids. Yeah,
okay, So and everything I'm going to

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say is common sense. You can
say, wow, I didn't think about

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that. And your listeners out there, they know all of these forms of

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power and they've used them, never
thought about it. But once you know

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them, you can sequentially go through
them. Because there is the most freeing

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to the least freeing, the most
controlling to the least controlling. So if

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you want to instill responsibility in people
below you, if you want to give

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them control, if you want to
make them responsible, if you want to

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motivate them to do things, you
start with the least and you keep moving

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through them until you find one that
works. So you can become pretty intelligent

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when it comes to being a parent. Okay, here's the least controlling.

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Okay, let's go through those.
You were going to say something, No,

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I said, let's go through the
least and go through least controlling information.

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What we're doing right now? You
give information to people and they say,

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ah, talk about that. Yeah, that's interesting, I think I'll

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try that. And this happens all
the time on TV. You know,

218
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you get this information on right now
the boot. The way they're shoving drugs

219
00:20:25.039 --> 00:20:30.039
and medicine at you is just crazy. Uh. Information and the lawyer is

220
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with theirs making money. They're shooting
information at you and getting people to sue

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to get money to take this drug
to cure that and this and all that.

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So information is used all the time, the books, the encyclopedias,

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uh, Facebook, on and on
with podcasts and YouTube and so forth.

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It's information now that's the most freeing. People hear it, see it and

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they say, uh, yeah,
I would do that. And you know

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what, as a parent, as
a parent, it's really interesting that when

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you literally give your children some of
that basic information, it's amazing because oftentimes

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those kids will then take that information
and that will be the basis of decisions

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that they will make that will continue
to have them going in a good direction.

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Right, that's right. That's why
you take them to church, among

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other things. All Right, so
we've got the information is number one,

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the least, what's the next?
What's the next power? That's why you

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send them to school and give them
books and all that stuff. You're right,

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and that's the most freeing form of
information. Goes way back to a

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book written in the nineteen seventies.
I forget what it was, but he's

236
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says information is the greatest form of
power. It is inexhaustible. You can't

237
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overuse it. Now in my book, I also talk about the misuse of

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power. Too much information is a
misuse because it overwhelms the person and they

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can't they can't handle it. So
there is a use and misuse of all

240
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of this. We're only going to
talk about if you marry. If you

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marry information power with the next form
of power, it becomes more powerful,

242
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expertise. So you not only have
information now, but you've got this person

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who demonstrates how to use this information, and he's wonderful, and you look

244
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at that and you say, wow, I wish I could do that.

245
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That guy really knows what he's talking
about. I really like you know.

246
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And then when you take an expert. Let's suppose you're a golfer. Okay,

247
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you've got the golf magazines, you've
got the videos, you've done everything,

248
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and you've got all the information,
and you say, well, I'm

249
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gonna I'm going to go get a
lesson, and the guy happens to be

250
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a famous person and he shows you
how to do it, and you say,

251
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wow, I see what you did. I think I can do that.

252
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So you see, you've this.
You're not making the person do it,

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You're getting them, You're motivating them
to do it. You're not controlling

254
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them at all. They have free
they have freedom, okay. Well,

255
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and as you as you say that, what comes to my mind is that

256
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they're using that expertise to share with
others to help them to become better.

257
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And so as you say, we're
talking about the positive aspects of this rather

258
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than the negative, but that expertise
to be able to share that with others,

259
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with our children, with those around
us, whether it's in the workforce,

260
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as you say, in school or
in the family. Being able to

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share that expertise in a way that
allows those other individuals to take that expertise

262
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and rather than feeling like, oh
I can't do it, helping them to

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understand that this is something that you
can do. You just need to understand.

264
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How right? That's right? Very
pofible. Yeah, yeah, I

265
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love that all right. But what's
the next one? And it happens all

266
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the time. It's happening every day. Yeah, oh I know, get

267
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information, they see it happening,
and they they're turned on. They do

268
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it. You don't have to make
them do it. They do it,

269
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that's right, that's right. It
is their decision and they become responsible and

270
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they're motivated. Go man, go, Now you had a third component that

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it gets even better. Suppose you
like the guy who's asking you to do

272
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it, yeah, and he says, hey, I need to have this

273
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done. Do you think you can
do it for me? Oh yeah,

274
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dad, I'll be glad to do
that. Or if you're the boss,

275
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or if it's your wife, or
you're you know, whoever. But if

276
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somebody asks you to do something and
you like it, sometimes that's all you

277
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need. Right, Well, if
you like that or you like the person.

278
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And I think those are two separate
things. So you know, originally,

279
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as you were saying, do you
like the individual? And then do

280
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you like what they're asking you to
do? Right now you've married, you've

281
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got a real motivated person there.
But normally it's not like that. Normally,

282
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when it happens, it's somebody just
asks you to do something. There's

283
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no information or expertise, they just
But you know if when you ask somebody

284
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and they don't do it because you
know they like you, or they may

285
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not like you that much, but
then you move to information, you give

286
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them, well, wait a minute, here's something you ought to know about

287
00:26:15.440 --> 00:26:21.039
what I'm asking you to do.
So he give them information, right,

288
00:26:21.160 --> 00:26:23.759
they still don't do it, and
you say, well not wait a minute.

289
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You remember that guy that you really
like, the one that you've been

290
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watching on TV. You know he
does this kind of thing. This is

291
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what he does in his life every
day. If you like him, why

292
00:26:40.039 --> 00:26:44.799
don't you want to be like him? I never thought about that, dad,

293
00:26:45.759 --> 00:26:48.799
Yeah, you're right, So you
move it up a notch. Okay,

294
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now I suppose that still doesn't work. Move it up another notch?

295
00:26:56.920 --> 00:27:03.519
Is it now? Wait a minute? Or employee or whatever? You know,

296
00:27:04.839 --> 00:27:10.359
last time I saw you doing something
really great. It was when you

297
00:27:10.440 --> 00:27:17.759
did this, you stroke their ego. Okay, you're stroking their ego.

298
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You say you were. You really
did a great job with that, And

299
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what I'm asking you to do fits
right in line with that. What do

300
00:27:26.519 --> 00:27:30.799
you think? Yeah, you're right, I did do a good job with

301
00:27:30.880 --> 00:27:37.000
that. A piece of cake?
Yeah, why not? Okay, now

302
00:27:37.759 --> 00:27:45.440
move it up another notch. There's
the negative ego stroke, which is very

303
00:27:45.839 --> 00:27:52.119
very powerful. Says so the guy
says, yeah, I remember the last

304
00:27:52.160 --> 00:27:55.079
time I saw you do that.
You really did a great job. And

305
00:27:55.640 --> 00:28:00.160
this one here looks pretty tough.
I'm not sure you can do that.

306
00:28:00.680 --> 00:28:04.519
What do you mean? What do
you mean I can't do that? You

307
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know worse than the other wey,
Yeah, I can do that. Now,

308
00:28:10.480 --> 00:28:15.000
you really got somebody who's motivated.
Actually, the negative ego stroke is

309
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one of the most powerful forms of
freeing power. But you got to use

310
00:28:21.640 --> 00:28:25.759
it on the right person and in
the right way, and in the right

311
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way and in the right way,
because it can be a disaster if it

312
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becomes manipulation. Exactly, when you
use the negative egostroke to manipulate people and

313
00:28:41.680 --> 00:28:47.640
they get wise to it, you
are done. You're finished. So you've

314
00:28:47.640 --> 00:28:49.759
got to be careful with that negative
ego stroke. Let me give you the

315
00:28:49.759 --> 00:28:55.559
one I cited in my book as
the most famous example. Okay, Muhammad

316
00:28:55.599 --> 00:29:00.599
Ali when he was in school,
his teacher told him he would never amount

317
00:29:00.640 --> 00:29:07.400
to anything. Guess what he did. The first thing he did after he

318
00:29:07.440 --> 00:29:12.160
won the gold glove in the Olympics
in Cuba, went back to that teacher.

319
00:29:14.160 --> 00:29:17.960
You told me I would never amount
to anything. Look what I did.

320
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The negative ego stroke. Sometimes it
can light a fire and a person

321
00:29:23.640 --> 00:29:30.519
like you would not believe if used
properly, it is fantastic form of power.

322
00:29:30.519 --> 00:29:33.960
But I've seen people use overuse it. Or here he comes again.

323
00:29:34.119 --> 00:29:38.640
I wonder what he wants this time? This is the overuse of the personality

324
00:29:38.680 --> 00:29:45.359
power. Right, So we got
four forms of power and it's still not

325
00:29:45.440 --> 00:29:48.039
working. Okay, here we are. I want to go back to the

326
00:29:48.119 --> 00:30:00.799
poor life and happiness, life,
death, happiness, control, personality.

327
00:30:00.480 --> 00:30:04.319
I'm getting yeah, okay, I'm
getting in my needes mixed up nearing with

328
00:30:04.400 --> 00:30:11.559
my apportness of power, personality and
ego. Now here's the form of power

329
00:30:11.839 --> 00:30:18.440
that everybody should be using every day. It's moral power. What is the

330
00:30:18.559 --> 00:30:25.559
right thing to do. Okay,
that's where our country is screwed up right

331
00:30:25.599 --> 00:30:29.319
now, big time, because these
kids growing up, they don't know if

332
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they're male or female, what's right, what's wrong. They're being bombarded by

333
00:30:33.920 --> 00:30:37.720
information. They see it on TV, they hear it at home, they

334
00:30:37.759 --> 00:30:42.079
hear it in school, and they
don't know what's right anymore. Many kids

335
00:30:42.079 --> 00:30:47.880
don't know what's right. That's why
they're so screwed up. But anyway,

336
00:30:49.160 --> 00:30:53.759
in an organization and in a home, let's start with the parents. Do

337
00:30:53.960 --> 00:31:00.279
your kids know what is the right
thing to do? Have you laid down

338
00:31:00.279 --> 00:31:04.079
the rules? Do they know them
or do they have to find out what

339
00:31:04.119 --> 00:31:10.599
the rules are after they don't do
what you wanted them to do. What

340
00:31:10.680 --> 00:31:14.720
are the rules in a house?
What are the rules in a classroom?

341
00:31:15.200 --> 00:31:19.160
What are the rules in your county? What are the laws? And on

342
00:31:19.279 --> 00:31:25.920
and on with the rules. If
you know what the rules are, most

343
00:31:26.000 --> 00:31:30.799
people will do them unless they forget
them. Well. And you know what,

344
00:31:30.880 --> 00:31:33.920
though, as you talk about that, what comes to my mind is,

345
00:31:34.200 --> 00:31:40.279
and as you said, there's always
the positive of this power, and

346
00:31:40.319 --> 00:31:42.200
then there becomes the negative. And
I don't want to get into the negative,

347
00:31:42.319 --> 00:31:47.079
but I think as we talk about
setting the rules, we need to

348
00:31:47.279 --> 00:31:51.440
really make sure that as parents,
as teachers, whatever they or a leader

349
00:31:51.480 --> 00:31:53.960
in a business, whatever it is, they need to make sure that those

350
00:31:55.160 --> 00:32:00.640
rules number one, as you say, are ethical, are moral, are

351
00:32:00.039 --> 00:32:08.680
appropriate, and are not punishing but
rather uplifting as they're being followed and accomplished.

352
00:32:08.720 --> 00:32:13.559
So I think that there's a real, real challenge there for people to

353
00:32:13.599 --> 00:32:17.160
recognize that is there setting down rules, especially parents, is there setting down

354
00:32:17.240 --> 00:32:22.920
rules for their children? And it
goes back to how much freedom are you

355
00:32:22.039 --> 00:32:25.640
giving your children? And then how
many, you know, what rules do

356
00:32:25.680 --> 00:32:30.359
you set down. I've got four
kids, and I remember telling my kids,

357
00:32:30.359 --> 00:32:37.079
you know what, as long as
you are maintaining your integrity, as

358
00:32:37.119 --> 00:32:42.519
long as you're not really messing up, we're okay. And it's only when

359
00:32:42.519 --> 00:32:45.599
we get to a point where you're
starting to mess up that I'm going to

360
00:32:45.680 --> 00:32:49.359
step in and we're going to start
having some of these discussions. And you

361
00:32:49.400 --> 00:32:52.920
know what, for them, it
worked, it worked great. I remember

362
00:32:52.920 --> 00:32:55.359
my daughter one time when she was
a teenager and I said, all right,

363
00:32:55.440 --> 00:33:00.119
you know, your curfew is twelve
o'clock midnight, and she goes,

364
00:33:00.240 --> 00:33:04.559
okay. I said and then that's
fine. Well, one morning, she

365
00:33:04.599 --> 00:33:07.640
didn't get home until four in the
morning, and I sat there and I

366
00:33:07.720 --> 00:33:12.720
going, okay, sweetie, what's
going on. I didn't get angry.

367
00:33:12.799 --> 00:33:15.079
I said, just tell me what's
going on, because you know what your

368
00:33:15.119 --> 00:33:19.519
curfew is. She said, Dad. So I had a friend. Yeah,

369
00:33:19.559 --> 00:33:22.319
I had a friend. I had
a friend who was really struggling,

370
00:33:22.920 --> 00:33:27.880
and I felt like I just needed
to stay and help them. And as

371
00:33:27.880 --> 00:33:30.160
soon as I felt that they were
going to be okay, I came home

372
00:33:30.640 --> 00:33:35.279
and I looked at her and I
said, that's wonderful. Just from now

373
00:33:35.319 --> 00:33:38.359
on, give me a call.
And that was it. So I think

374
00:33:38.400 --> 00:33:43.359
it's really important sometimes, and you
know, I wish I could say it

375
00:33:43.400 --> 00:33:46.599
was a great parent. I keep
asking my kids. But I think the

376
00:33:46.720 --> 00:33:51.880
point is is that as parents,
we need to understand that we set the

377
00:33:52.000 --> 00:33:58.039
rules, but we also set a
level of trust and understanding, and we

378
00:33:58.079 --> 00:34:02.119
make sure that there's that communication going
on so that we understand what's happening.

379
00:34:02.880 --> 00:34:07.079
And so anyway, I think that
becomes really important. Here's what I want

380
00:34:07.119 --> 00:34:12.639
to get to though. I want
to talk to you about this bullying that

381
00:34:12.679 --> 00:34:16.400
I don't want to leave that one
Okay, go ahead, and then well

382
00:34:16.679 --> 00:34:21.400
then we'll get into the next rone. You're saying is very true. But

383
00:34:21.800 --> 00:34:25.400
what if you what if they don't
agree on the rules? That's where you

384
00:34:25.440 --> 00:34:30.800
were coming That's where you were coming
from. Okay, how do you get

385
00:34:30.840 --> 00:34:34.559
people to agree on what the rules
should be? It's actually very simple.

386
00:34:35.719 --> 00:34:38.039
With the parents, this is what
I would suggest you do. Do you

387
00:34:38.079 --> 00:34:42.519
have four kids? Okay, Now
I don't know when you do this with

388
00:34:42.599 --> 00:34:45.000
your kids, but this is what
I haven't. I didn't do it,

389
00:34:45.079 --> 00:34:47.760
but I would if I were to
be a parent again, I would do

390
00:34:47.800 --> 00:34:52.239
it. I would give my kids
three by five cards and I would say,

391
00:34:52.679 --> 00:34:57.199
I would like for you to tell
me what you want the rules to

392
00:34:57.199 --> 00:35:00.920
be in this house. What do
you want the rule to be? What

393
00:35:01.239 --> 00:35:04.559
you want us to tell you what
we want? Yeah, I want to

394
00:35:04.599 --> 00:35:07.679
know what you think the rules ought
to be in this house. Okay,

395
00:35:07.840 --> 00:35:12.199
just write one thing on each card. You can have as many cars as

396
00:35:12.199 --> 00:35:19.519
you want. So each of the
kids gets five cards, and if they

397
00:35:19.559 --> 00:35:21.639
fill those out, you say,
do you want some more? Do you

398
00:35:21.639 --> 00:35:25.199
want any more? No? So
you get the rules and you quickly sort

399
00:35:25.280 --> 00:35:29.400
them in the common files, and
it's easy because there's one thing on each

400
00:35:29.480 --> 00:35:32.840
car. You don't need the cards, but I use that for sorting purposes.

401
00:35:32.920 --> 00:35:37.000
I did this with my kids as
a teacher. What do you want

402
00:35:37.039 --> 00:35:39.840
the rules to be in this classroom? You want us to tell you what

403
00:35:39.880 --> 00:35:43.320
the rules are? Yeah, I
want to know what you think the rules

404
00:35:43.320 --> 00:35:46.119
ought to be. And so I
get from my one hundred and twenty kids

405
00:35:46.519 --> 00:35:51.079
all these cards and they're quickly sorted
into common files. And I come up

406
00:35:51.119 --> 00:35:54.239
with both piles that I've got a
lot of cards in them. Well,

407
00:35:54.280 --> 00:35:59.639
those are going to be the rules
for the classroom. And there's usually one

408
00:35:59.719 --> 00:36:02.800
rule that they never put in in
every class I ever had, they would

409
00:36:02.800 --> 00:36:07.480
never put it in, let's turn
in your homework on time. So I

410
00:36:07.599 --> 00:36:12.840
just put it in and of course
they probably thought, who's the stupid kid

411
00:36:12.880 --> 00:36:17.920
that put that in there. Well, anyway, once the rules go up,

412
00:36:19.000 --> 00:36:23.840
it's their rules. Now. As
a parent, if they don't say

413
00:36:23.880 --> 00:36:28.800
a rule that you want, like, they probably won't put in there the

414
00:36:28.880 --> 00:36:35.039
rule and force the rule of curfew
one we come home. They won't put

415
00:36:35.039 --> 00:36:38.199
it in there. Right, there's
one rule you didn't put in there,

416
00:36:38.719 --> 00:36:43.880
I'm going to have to put it
in there. Don't you think we need

417
00:36:43.920 --> 00:36:47.760
to have a curfew here? What
do you think should there be a curfew

418
00:36:47.800 --> 00:36:54.360
in this house? They aren't going
to say no, right, you're probably

419
00:36:54.480 --> 00:36:58.559
well, what do you think it
ought to be? What time should it

420
00:36:58.599 --> 00:37:01.480
be? And you get them to
agree on that. You get to argue

421
00:37:01.639 --> 00:37:07.599
your point at your parents. They
will listen to you. You'll get it,

422
00:37:07.000 --> 00:37:10.960
you'll get agreement on. Now you've
got the rules up and everybody agrees

423
00:37:12.039 --> 00:37:15.159
that those are the rules. There
is no guess and what the rules are

424
00:37:15.239 --> 00:37:21.239
when you violate when you know you
violated it, well, and that's right,

425
00:37:21.800 --> 00:37:24.119
that's right. And I appreciate what
you were saying there, and I

426
00:37:24.119 --> 00:37:29.039
really do want to get to this
other area. You've got a son that's

427
00:37:29.039 --> 00:37:35.480
being bullied all right in grade school. What what are you going to recommend?

428
00:37:35.480 --> 00:37:39.880
Because you've done all this research on
the area of bullying behavior, character

429
00:37:39.920 --> 00:37:44.280
related behavior and so on and so
forth, what do you do as a

430
00:37:44.400 --> 00:37:50.760
parent when your child comes home crying
and you discover that they've been bullied by

431
00:37:51.039 --> 00:37:57.519
either an individual or maybe multiple individuals. How do you handle that with your

432
00:37:57.599 --> 00:38:02.239
child? And how do you handle
that in that community of school or work

433
00:38:02.440 --> 00:38:08.400
or wherever it happens to be well, you have to here's the problem.

434
00:38:08.480 --> 00:38:16.159
The bystanders are the ones who are
allowing that they see it. The teachers,

435
00:38:16.559 --> 00:38:20.599
you don't see it. The parents
don't see it. The teachers don't

436
00:38:20.599 --> 00:38:23.559
see it. It happens out of
sight. But every time a kid is

437
00:38:23.559 --> 00:38:30.280
being bullied, there usually are bystanders. Somebody's watching. That's what the bully

438
00:38:30.280 --> 00:38:36.840
feeds on. They want this everybody
to know that they are top dog.

439
00:38:37.159 --> 00:38:39.679
They want to know how. They
want other people to see be afraid of

440
00:38:39.679 --> 00:38:45.519
them too, which increases if there's
nobody around, like the tree that falls

441
00:38:45.519 --> 00:38:50.840
in the woods, if nobody sees
what you're doing, then it's only you.

442
00:38:51.559 --> 00:38:54.159
But if you've got a crowd of
people around watching you do this thing

443
00:38:54.239 --> 00:39:00.639
to this kid, it increases your
power and they feed on that. Okay,

444
00:39:00.159 --> 00:39:06.920
so you have to start with the
bystanders. So if you've given control

445
00:39:07.360 --> 00:39:13.760
to kids in your school, now
that's my book. How do you give

446
00:39:13.840 --> 00:39:17.880
control to the kids in the schools
so they control their own behavior. Because

447
00:39:17.920 --> 00:39:24.360
what happens in most schools today that
teacher in in every classroom, period hour

448
00:39:24.519 --> 00:39:30.760
has to stop teaching to control the
kid five to ten times. That interrupts

449
00:39:30.760 --> 00:39:34.800
the learning process, and that's why
our schools are underperforming. But anyway,

450
00:39:35.840 --> 00:39:44.320
once you give control to the kids, it goes beyond just that because it

451
00:39:44.440 --> 00:39:50.760
empowers the kid, It gives them
power. They feel this need, they

452
00:39:50.800 --> 00:39:55.079
feel like they have control. Okay, Well, when a kid bullies and

453
00:39:55.119 --> 00:40:00.559
they know it's wrong in a school
today, let's do nothing. I've got

454
00:40:00.599 --> 00:40:07.880
the data. Eight out of ten
kids will do nothing. They'll watch.

455
00:40:07.400 --> 00:40:13.400
They not only watch, some of
them encourage the kid, that's right,

456
00:40:13.760 --> 00:40:16.559
and then some of the other kids
who haven't need to control join in.

457
00:40:16.760 --> 00:40:22.480
So you've not only got one kid
bullying this isolate, but you've got maybe

458
00:40:22.880 --> 00:40:30.000
a whole school of kids bullying.
This isolate. This kid is in big

459
00:40:30.039 --> 00:40:36.480
trouble. This kid is hurting big
time. This isolate. What does this

460
00:40:36.599 --> 00:40:40.280
kid do? Some of them go
home and get a gun and come back

461
00:40:42.320 --> 00:40:46.880
and shows them what you did to
me. Bam, bam, bam.

462
00:40:47.119 --> 00:40:52.840
I've analyzed, I've analyzed shooter after
shooter, and it's the same thing happening

463
00:40:52.880 --> 00:40:57.079
over and over and over. Yeah, and yet, and I want to

464
00:40:57.079 --> 00:41:00.840
move away from that for a minute, because most of those kids end up

465
00:41:00.920 --> 00:41:05.199
in a situation where they feel like
they're no good. They're developing this whole

466
00:41:05.239 --> 00:41:09.519
belief system internally that they're not any
good, that they can't accomplish anything.

467
00:41:10.360 --> 00:41:16.960
That's that's the impression and perception that
they developed. So the question goes again,

468
00:41:17.039 --> 00:41:21.360
and we're not going to have a
lot of time. What do you

469
00:41:21.400 --> 00:41:23.519
do? What do you do as
a parent? What do you do as

470
00:41:23.519 --> 00:41:29.320
a teacher. Here's what I suggest
you do. If you're a parent listening

471
00:41:29.320 --> 00:41:32.039
out there and your kid is being
bullied, this is what you need to

472
00:41:32.039 --> 00:41:37.519
do. You need to talk to
your kid and say, hey, we're

473
00:41:37.519 --> 00:41:44.079
having a birthday party coming up,
or no, hey, how about inviting

474
00:41:44.119 --> 00:41:50.239
a couple of your friends over for
a sleep in. Because what you want

475
00:41:50.280 --> 00:41:52.440
to do as a parent, you
want to know if your kid's got any

476
00:41:52.440 --> 00:41:55.400
friends. Yeah, if the kid
has no friends, you know what the

477
00:41:55.440 --> 00:42:01.440
problem is? How do you get
kid to make friends? I had the

478
00:42:01.480 --> 00:42:07.039
same thing happen here with one of
my golfing buddies. It was new to

479
00:42:07.719 --> 00:42:13.039
our group. He says. You've
been involved in school, He says.

480
00:42:13.239 --> 00:42:17.039
My daughter is having all kinds of
trouble at school. Nobody likes her.

481
00:42:17.639 --> 00:42:21.559
She just got new friends, she
says. He says, what do I

482
00:42:21.639 --> 00:42:24.639
do? I says, well,
that's pretty easy. He says, why

483
00:42:24.679 --> 00:42:29.960
did you have a party and then
have her invite some friends over? So

484
00:42:30.119 --> 00:42:35.599
she did, and she had two
or three friends. She didn't have many,

485
00:42:35.599 --> 00:42:40.320
but she had two or three and
they had a sleep in. And

486
00:42:40.360 --> 00:42:45.440
I said, and then have another
one and have her invite some more friends.

487
00:42:46.199 --> 00:42:49.719
He says. About six months,
he says, manical, he's a

488
00:42:50.239 --> 00:42:52.480
thank you Jesus. The problem to
solved. She's doing well. Now,

489
00:42:53.400 --> 00:42:57.599
okay, well that's what you do
as a parent. But here is what

490
00:42:57.639 --> 00:43:00.800
you do at the school. Okay, you know, and you can go

491
00:43:00.840 --> 00:43:07.719
to the counselor and say can you
help me with my daughter or with my

492
00:43:07.840 --> 00:43:13.880
son? And the counselors that's what
they're supposed to do. Mont of times

493
00:43:13.960 --> 00:43:17.320
they push books and keep grades and
they don't get involved in what they're supposed

494
00:43:17.360 --> 00:43:22.639
to do, and that's helped the
kids, help the mental environment in this

495
00:43:22.760 --> 00:43:27.079
school. Meant, that's what counselors
are supposed to do. They're supposed to

496
00:43:27.159 --> 00:43:30.360
counsel these kids who are in trouble
and counsel the parents who've got kids who

497
00:43:30.400 --> 00:43:36.159
are in trouble. That's their role. So Most counselors don't know what to

498
00:43:36.199 --> 00:43:39.079
do with this situation, but here
is what they should do. And the

499
00:43:39.159 --> 00:43:45.360
parent can go there and say,
I'd like to know how many friends my

500
00:43:45.519 --> 00:43:47.960
kids has in this school. Do
you think you can help me find out?

501
00:43:50.119 --> 00:43:52.280
Okay? The counselor says, well, what do you How do you

502
00:43:52.280 --> 00:43:55.159
want me to do that? He
said, well, Bulock said this is

503
00:43:55.159 --> 00:43:59.760
what you should do. Okay,
so you share with them what They may

504
00:43:59.760 --> 00:44:02.440
come up with it right away,
but it's so easy. You say,

505
00:44:02.440 --> 00:44:10.599
well, my daughter is having is
having a birthday. I want you to

506
00:44:10.639 --> 00:44:19.519
find out how many kids Let's see, I forget how I would have got

507
00:44:19.639 --> 00:44:25.280
But what you want to find out
is you want to have the counselor survey

508
00:44:25.360 --> 00:44:36.320
the kids in this kid's class find
out if if they would go, yeah,

509
00:44:36.519 --> 00:44:42.320
if they would go to her birthday
party. Now I'm having a senior

510
00:44:42.360 --> 00:44:45.880
moment here and trying to find tooth
that, but that you out there can

511
00:44:45.920 --> 00:44:51.280
figure that one out. You want
to find out if your kid's inviting people

512
00:44:51.320 --> 00:44:55.320
to the birthday party, how many
people would go. Now, when the

513
00:44:55.400 --> 00:45:00.719
parent says to the kid, invite
sell of your friends, the kid goes

514
00:45:00.760 --> 00:45:06.920
to who she thinks are her friends. So she's not even looking at all

515
00:45:06.960 --> 00:45:10.119
of the kids in the school.
Because when there's a birthday party, most

516
00:45:10.199 --> 00:45:15.199
kids will go to the birthday party
if they're invited. So you want to

517
00:45:15.239 --> 00:45:20.440
find out how many of the kids
would go to her birthday party, and

518
00:45:20.480 --> 00:45:23.559
if there are none, you know
this kid has no friends. So what

519
00:45:23.559 --> 00:45:28.400
do you do as the counselor?
Okay, you go to the principle and

520
00:45:28.440 --> 00:45:32.079
you say, the most principals have
got a leader program. They've got kids

521
00:45:32.119 --> 00:45:38.000
that they go to when they want
to involve the kids in running the school.

522
00:45:38.280 --> 00:45:44.320
So they have selected maybe a half
dozen to a dozen kids who are

523
00:45:44.400 --> 00:45:49.239
considered the creamer who they go to
the teacher and say, I need one

524
00:45:49.320 --> 00:45:52.719
kid from your class to be on
my leader team. Who do you think

525
00:45:52.880 --> 00:45:59.440
is your best choice? Right,
so you get your leader and the most

526
00:45:59.440 --> 00:46:01.840
principles, I've got a leader team. Counselor goes to the leader team and

527
00:46:01.880 --> 00:46:07.519
says, I've got a kid that
needs a friend. They're being bullied and

528
00:46:07.599 --> 00:46:13.039
they're in trouble in school, and
which one of you would like to take

529
00:46:13.119 --> 00:46:17.920
her on as your project? And
most of these kids will love it.

530
00:46:17.920 --> 00:46:22.199
They'll jump all over that because they
want to help. These are the kids

531
00:46:22.199 --> 00:46:27.719
who want to help, they are
in the school. So you get one

532
00:46:27.760 --> 00:46:32.519
of them to pair up with this
kid and this kid greets do you give

533
00:46:32.599 --> 00:46:37.320
the kids some guidelines on what they're
to do, one of which is meet

534
00:46:37.360 --> 00:46:43.519
them when they come to school,
ask them if how they're feeling, and

535
00:46:43.760 --> 00:46:46.400
you know, just chit chat with
them, okay, see if they need

536
00:46:46.480 --> 00:46:53.079
anything, and then you might have
them eat lunch with the kid. Okay,

537
00:46:54.000 --> 00:46:58.719
So this kid who's got no friends
all of a sudden is sitting with

538
00:46:59.119 --> 00:47:04.639
the kids who are the cream of
the crop. Yeah, it changes the

539
00:47:04.719 --> 00:47:09.079
kid overnight. It also changes the
way the other kids treat this kid.

540
00:47:10.280 --> 00:47:17.880
That's right. So I can't say
that the problem is solved, but you

541
00:47:19.039 --> 00:47:25.239
have made this kid someone who is
now someone at the school and not on

542
00:47:25.360 --> 00:47:30.800
nothing. And that really becomes the
first step. And we're closing out of

543
00:47:30.840 --> 00:47:35.199
time now, Cleader. So if
you had a message for parents, and

544
00:47:35.239 --> 00:47:40.119
if you had a message for teachers
in a very short minute, what would

545
00:47:40.199 --> 00:47:45.239
you say The most important thing you
can do as a parent and as a

546
00:47:45.280 --> 00:47:50.280
teacher, and as a person,
as a leader, as a human being

547
00:47:50.519 --> 00:47:55.719
is to listen to other people listen
to what they're saying. You see listening

548
00:47:57.320 --> 00:48:02.880
and telling, or the two hair
facets of whether you're an open person or

549
00:48:02.920 --> 00:48:07.360
whether you're a closed person. An
open person is going to be successful.

550
00:48:07.400 --> 00:48:09.719
A closed person is going to do
the same old, same old, and

551
00:48:09.760 --> 00:48:15.760
they're they're fixed them to die.
An open person listens. What does it

552
00:48:15.039 --> 00:48:20.599
happen when you listen to somebody else? It tells them that you care about

553
00:48:20.639 --> 00:48:25.639
them. Caring is one of the
most important needs in life. If you

554
00:48:25.719 --> 00:48:30.599
listen to people, you show that
you care. It's the most important quality

555
00:48:30.679 --> 00:48:34.880
of a human being to be able
to listen. Telling is not one of

556
00:48:34.920 --> 00:48:38.719
the most important. It is important
because that's what we do healthy. But

557
00:48:38.920 --> 00:48:44.360
listening is the most important thing you
can do as a human being to other

558
00:48:44.400 --> 00:48:47.599
people in your life. Okay,
I love that. I love that,

559
00:48:47.800 --> 00:48:52.480
And you know it is so important
that listening, that caring, that being

560
00:48:52.599 --> 00:48:57.679
kind, all of those things are
so important. And Kretis, thank you

561
00:48:57.719 --> 00:49:00.199
so much for being on the showf
this is this has been great and that

562
00:49:00.239 --> 00:49:06.920
book sounds fascinating because you hit all
sorts of different areas and understanding and in

563
00:49:06.960 --> 00:49:08.639
my mind, and one of the
reasons I love to do these shows is

564
00:49:08.679 --> 00:49:13.519
because you know, there's so many
people out there that are facing some of

565
00:49:13.519 --> 00:49:16.679
these types of dilemmas and they don't
know what the solution is. And being

566
00:49:16.719 --> 00:49:21.320
able to read a book, being
able to listen to a podcast, they

567
00:49:21.400 --> 00:49:28.880
start to get ideas that engender enough
curiosity and enthusiasm that they research more and

568
00:49:28.960 --> 00:49:32.119
can start to find the solutions in
this case, to their child being bullied

569
00:49:32.559 --> 00:49:37.800
or to handle those that are actually
bullying. So Kletis, thanks for being

570
00:49:37.840 --> 00:49:40.760
on the show. I really appreciate
it. Well, I appreciate you being

571
00:49:40.800 --> 00:49:46.880
a great host. You you interacted
it very well. We did well together

572
00:49:46.920 --> 00:49:53.119
and I appreciated your input on this. Well. Fath right, well go

573
00:49:53.159 --> 00:49:59.440
ahead. I'll thank you that you're
doing what you're doing. Hopefully people will

574
00:49:59.480 --> 00:50:04.519
listen to you you and use information
power and it will impact their lives in

575
00:50:04.559 --> 00:50:07.440
a positive way. Well, I
appreciate that, and folks, thanks so

576
00:50:07.519 --> 00:50:12.639
much for listening. I hope you
enjoyed this and you do a little bit

577
00:50:12.679 --> 00:50:16.880
more research. Especially look at your
kids and if they're coming home and you

578
00:50:16.960 --> 00:50:20.800
have a sense that they're not happy, let's figure out what's going on,

579
00:50:20.880 --> 00:50:24.960
because more than likely somebody is bullying
them, and you can make a difference

580
00:50:25.000 --> 00:50:29.639
in your own child's life. So
thanks for listening. Hope you'll join us

581
00:50:29.679 --> 00:50:35.199
again soon. Have a great week.