Role of Love

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This program is designed to provide general
information with regards to the subject matters covered.

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This information is given with the understanding
that neither the hosts, guests,

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sponsors, or station are engaged in
rendering any specific and personal medical, financial,

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legal counseling, professional service, or
any advice. You should seek the

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services of competent professionals before applying or
trying any suggested ideas. At the end

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of the day, it's not about
what you have or even what you've accomplished.

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It's about what you've done with those
accomplishments. It's about who you've lifted

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up, who you've made better.
It's about what you've given back. Denzel

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Washington, welcome to Inspire Vision.
Our sole purpose is to elevate the lives

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of others and to inspire you to
do the same. Paul Szulton, welcome

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to the show. Thank you,
Doctor Doug. Pleasure to be with you

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to well, I really appreciate you
being on the show. So let the

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audience know where are you living at
this point in time. I'm just two

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hours north of Las Vegas in Saint
George, Utah. Okay, great,

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And you know what I find really
interesting is the reason why people tend to

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get to the point that they are
from a standpoint of doing what they're doing

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to make a difference in people's lives. So I'd love for you to share

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with the audience what brought you to
this point in your life where you're doing

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what you're doing, where you've written
your book. I don't believe it's called

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role of love, and what brought
this all about? What were the experiences

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and so forth that brought you to
this point, Doctor Doug. I had

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a habit that I didn't know that
I had a habit about till about fifteen

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years ago, that I was dating
someone at the first marriage fell apart after

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twenty one and or twenty three and
a half years fell apart, and so

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I was dating and got serious with
someone. I'm number ten of eleven children,

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so I need big brother approval.
Everything I do has to have big

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brother big sister approval. So I
took this woman to my brother's house,

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actually three hundred miles northward where I
live in Salt Lake City. He lived

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there, and I took her there. And first thing that happened, I

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take take her into the house.
My sister in law pulls her aside and

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says, the only emotion that the
Zolman family learned growing up was anger.

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At first I denied, said,
oh oh, then it made me mad,

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and I thought I just verified exactly
what she just said. And I

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didn't realize that I had that problem, and my siblings had the problem,

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and my father had the problem.
And what the problem was, doctor Doug,

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is that we was stacked annoyance on
top of annoyance on top of annoyance

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on top of annoyance, until we
had a flash of anger. We'd go

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back down and we start stacking annoyances. For me, it wasn't much annoyance

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about myself. I was I knew
everything, so to speak, because that's

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the dysfunctional family I grew up in. We know it alls and everybody else

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is lower, and we put them
down to be lower as well. So

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we criticize, and we were stacking
these annoyances and then having flash of anger.

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What I didn't realize is that that
I had that, and I didn't

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realize, well, how did you
get out of that? It was kind

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of a knee jerk reaction, doctor
Doug, and I didn't know a way

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out. So but at that point
of time, I realized that if that's

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a generational habit, and it seemed
like it was. If that's the habit,

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I don't want the habit anymore,
and I don't want to pass it

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on to my children. Well,
and you know that that is so interesting

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because you bring up such an interesting
point. You know, environmentally, we

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think we can pass it on.
I think from the standpoint of genetics,

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the epigenetics is where we received those
types of activities in our lives and they

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become embedded epigenetically in our system,
and then we passed that on and so

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it's just a continual passing on and
passing on and passing on from one generation

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to the other. And what a
blessing it is when you can stop that.

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I know that in my case,
I found out, you know,

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a while ago later after my dad's
passed away, that his father was you

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know, pretty strong willed and would
take a belt to my dad. And

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I was always wondering why six of
us, why none of the children were

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ever spanked, And I realized,
wow, later on, that he literally

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consciously made a decision to change that
epigenetic heredity. And because of that,

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as far as I know, with
all my siblings that that has not been

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touched on. So none of us
really are doing that, and so I

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think it's amazing that you have been
able to recognize that and realize that,

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yes, some of these habits or
whatever you want to call it, can

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be passed through other generations unless we
consciously make a decision not to do that.

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I agree, doctor Doug. My
grandfather had nineteen children and my father

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only had eleven. I only had
eight, and my children were only having

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three. And that's just it looks
like it's stopping pretty soon. I won't

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have any grandchildren. I want more
grandchildren. And again, doctor Doug,

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it's out of my control. And
I realized in this whole process, I

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realized that looking at other people and
criticizing them for what they're doing was really

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out of my control. It's just
as if I'm trying to beckon someone to

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love me, how's that going to
turn out? I mean, it's just

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doesn't turn out. Can't bid someone
to love you in the way that you

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want to be loved. You can't. It's either they either treat that as

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an expectation or they treat it as
a duty. And that's what I was

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finding. What I do have control
over is sending love out and responding when

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comes back my way. Well,
let's talk about what you experienced as a

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child. Let's talk about you know, so the audience really understands what were

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the things that you experienced that created
that sense of anger and that response of

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anger when events would occur that just
kind of naturally happens. So I'm number

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ten of eleven, as I'd mentioned, and my father. One of the

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things that I love about my father
is that he dated my mother every Friday

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night, didn't miss. I don't
know how he did it. I can't

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even duplicate that in my own life. I don't know how you didn't miss.

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But he wasn't very creative about it, Doctor Doug. He was always

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the Maverick bar and it was always
over alcohol. And so as he's getting

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in bye my butt, I was
never there. But I can guess that

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my mother started at the top of
the line, and by the time he's

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getting annoyed, annoyed, annoyed,
annoyed, he's ready for that flash of

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anger at number ten B. I'm
the target right now that in addition to

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I'm between two girls, an older
sister and a younger sister, and he

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valued women. By taking my mother
out every single every single Friday night,

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I knew he valued women, and
he valued those daughters that he had.

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So if I looked cross at those
girls, I was in trouble. If

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I did anything out of the ordinary, I was in trouble because he got

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annoyed from all the older brothers.
Those older brothers did terrible things. They

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were riding a motorcycle up and down
the clinic parking lot in our backyard,

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which was a clinic parking lot.
There were chains across and posts and everything

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that hit the and they'd lifted the
motorcycle and they'd hurt themselves and they'd have

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medical problems, and we had more
medical bills. And he'd get all annoyed

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at all this, but he'd take
that annoyance out on me. I felt

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that way. I felt I was
targeted in that way. And the other

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things that happened. People talk over
each other. Part of that angry culture

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is that you talk over someone else
because what you have to say seems like

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it's more important than what they have
to say. And that's part of the

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culture. Another part of it is
all the put downs. Always putting people

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down, always has that sarcasm.
You're taking their legs out from under him.

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That's it's verbal abuse, it's physical
abuse. Sometimes there was some sexual

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abuse in there. All those abuses
were part of the household. Oh wow,

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oh wow. And so literally,
and I get what you're saying.

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Literally, you you developed some of
those subconscious beliefs that brought about it.

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But I can imagine also part of
that is you know, I mean for

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me what I experience and I never
experienced that type of thing, but my

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dad was very strong personality, and
so I think as I started to do

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that introspective work years ago, that
I realized, you know what, and

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I think most people have this that
I'm not good enough, and we don't

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realize that those limiting beliefs create our
life. It creates the reality of our

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life, and we tend to attract
those situations in given time to the point

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where we literally experienced the fact that
hey, we're not good enough. And

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so for you that the anger and
all of that type of thing is amazing

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how it literally can affect us.
But what I love is the fact that

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you became aware of that. What
was the what was that moment? If

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there was a moment where you finally
had that aha moment of ho oh,

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my goodness, I've got to make
a change here. I think that the

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start of the doctor Doug was when
I'm about thirty five. Most people realize

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that they're responsible for their own stuff
a whole lot earlier than that, and

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it took me to age thirty five
to realize that, oh, I got

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to stop blaming him for the way
I act. He'd already been dead for

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seven years at age thirty five,
So I'm blaming a guy that can't even

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respond. He can't stand his ground, he can't I can't even have a

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discussion with him to talk it out. But I'm still blaming him for what's

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happening in my life. And at
that point in time, I said woke

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up and I thought, oh,
I'm responsible for my own stuff. It

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was a down moment, but it
also was a crystallizing moment that if I'm

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responsible, I'm going to make it
a lot better. And so that really

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was a turning point for me,
in addition to the turning point that I

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mentioned a little bit earlier. Well, and I love the fact that you

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use the word responsible because I think
so many times we have we see people

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and we've all experiences in our own
lives where we tend to find ourselves in

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that victim mode and we blame others
for what happened, or we blame God

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for what happened, or we blame
the universe for what happened or whatever that

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happens to be, or we blame
karma for what happened, all of those

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types of things. And yet the
biggest challenge, as you said, and

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it's not easy, is to take
that personal responsibility and say, you know

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what, I am responsible for my
life. I am responsible for my emotions,

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and I'm responsible for my perception of
what's going on in my life and

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what I receive based on the fact
that I put out that energy and therefore

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I get equal energy back. So
I love the fact that you talk about

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responsibility absolutely doctored of And I realized
at that moment that if I can blame

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someone for something I don't have to
change, it's their fault. Go talk

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to them. And it's just that
shirking of any responsibility makes you be in

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a spot that you don't have to
change. It almost puts you in neutral

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gear that you can go uphill downhill, you can go wherever. It doesn't

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matter. You don't have to change
a bit. The thing that self actualization

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moments that you have puts you on
a spectrum. It puts you on a

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spectrum. And I found a walking
stick a while back that just found it

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around in my neighborhood. Didn't have
any bark on it, just like this,

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about three and a half feet tall, and on one side it's really

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smooth. On the other side it's
got some points and tips on it for

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the listeners. I'm just trying to
explain it. But what I found was

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that that being nice was more on
the loving side of the spectrum. Being

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angry was on the knotty side.
Santa Claus, I'm sure has a stick

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just like that, doctor Doug.
And that's how you get your presence at

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Christmas time. I knew you didn't
know that, but that's how you do

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that. And so what I realized
was that some of the things that if

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I could attach an adjective to those
or a description to the type of activity

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that I was doing at that moment, have that self actualizing moment, I

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could find out where it was on
the spectrum. Then I would say,

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well, what's the opposite of that
and then find out where that was on

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the spectrum. Take, for example, the word sarcasm knaughty or nice side

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of the spectrum, I would put
it on the knotty or the angry side

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the spectrum. What would be the
opposite, And what comes to mind for

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me is someone that's genuine, someone
that's authentic, someone that's true blue.

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Put all those words out on the
table, most people are going to choose

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that they want to be authentic,
they want to be true yes, and

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they want to be able to listen. I find that that that was something

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that I really struggled with as a
parent for a while, and I finally

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had a long conversation with my kids
and now we laugh about it. But

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I learned, because of my strong
personality that I always found myself making comments

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and you know, giving my opinion, which they perceived as challenging them number

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one, or saying that they,
you know, were making the wrong decisions

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or whatever that happened to be.
And I learned finally that I had to

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literally say, all right, you
want me to listen or do you want

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my opinion? And oftentimes I say, Dad, I just want you to

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listen, and okay, and I
wouldn't say another word, And other times

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I say no, Dad, I
really want your opinion here, and so

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then I would do that, but
coups that with understanding who they were.

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So I think it's really fascinating.
I love how you talk about the spectrum

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and we can look at one area
of the spectrum and go to the opposite

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side and recognize that, hey,
you know what, if I can change

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from here over to here, it's
just completely changed the conversation and changed the

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dynamics of those relationships absolutely, doctor
Dobin. What I look at it as

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is that's the only time that you
can have vision. If you're blaming someone,

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there is no room to change.
You don't know where you are on

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the spectrum. Put an adjective to
You'll find out where you're out of the

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spectrum then and only then when you're
on that stick. When you're on that

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spectrum, then can you make goals
to be worse or better. And that's

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the only time that you can make
goals when you have been identified where am

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I? Where am I on that
spectrum? So let's talk about one thing

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that you mentioned a little bit.
But when we talk about you know,

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family traditions and I'm not sure I
like that word, but at the same

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time, I think it's true.
If we see that tradition of anger,

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if we see those type of things
going on, Once we recognize that that's

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effect in our lives, how do
we reverse that in our own lives those

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family traditions. That is a great
question. Doctor Doug and I struggled with

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it for quite a few years,
quite a few things to see what it

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was, and I realized that most
of all appeared very similar to an addiction.

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If you've got an addiction, you
have to have that replacement behavior.

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So I was looking for a long
time, well, what would be in

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replacement behavior of being critical? I
was looking at maybe ten, maybe twenty

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percent of what's wrong with that person, or twenty percent of their personality would

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be their faults and the mistakes and
their misgivings, their fault just what was

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wrong with them. I was missing
eighty to ninety percent of what was good

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about that person. So when I
realized that and was able to dice that

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up, I said, oh,
I'm missing all this over here. So

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what I created was a tool.
It's just a dice that I created that

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I created the icons or the pictures
that have the love language is on the

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dice. So on the dice right
now for your listeners that are not seeing

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the video. There's a hand holding
an hourglass. This side would represent time.

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Spending time would be a love language. The next one has looks like

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a waiter holding a platter that would
represent service. Next one is like the

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Taylor Swift heart, putting your two
hands together to form a heart. But

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this heart's a little different. It's
got a conversation fly out, so this

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would be the words from the heart. Next side has a hand holding a

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gift. And then the last last
of the five love languages would be two

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hands touching each other. Looks like
they're holding hands. Five love languages,

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six sides on the cube. This
one surprised me. So what I found,

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doctor Doug is is as I created
this. This was a tool that

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I don't know how I came up
with it except that I thought, well,

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maybe I'll make it a game if
I can learn the five love languages.

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Because I read the book four or
five times, I did not get

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it. Just didn't understand what doctor
Chapman was trying to say. I like

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the principles of the five love languages, but his application wasn't working for me.

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You mean, doctor Chapman. If
I if I guess what doctor Doug's

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love language is and catered to that, we're going to be buddies, that

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sounds more like a manipulation. And
I'm a bad guesser wasn't working for me

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up until that point in my life. Why was it? Why would it

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continue work in the future. It
just wasn't working for me. And the

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second thing that doctor Chapman has in
his book is that, well, if

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you take this survey, I'll be
able to find out what my love language

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is. Well, doctor Chapman,
When the heck am I supposed to do

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with that? Advertise? Hello,
doctor Doug, I'm gifts. What do

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you have for me today? This
is so awkward. It just and that

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does not develop good relationships. So
that wasn't working for me either. So

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the applications doctor Chapman hadn't didn't work. So I thought, well, I'll

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contact doctor Chapman. I'll ask him
if he'll licensed those little pictures that he

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had for the for the love languages. After a couple of weeks, as

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attorney wrote back, said no,
we're not doing that right now. So

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I had an attorney in my neighborhood
that I went to. Here's a copyright

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attorney. He said, theory like
the love language, theory is not copyrightable.

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Application is. So they weren't doing
it as a game. I created

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my own ecounts made it into a
game. There's just two instruction, doctor,

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like the dice every day whatever it
lads on, that is the love

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language. You practice giving away all
day that day, all day to everybody.

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And what you're watching for is for
people to light up. When they

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light up, that's their primary or
secondary love language. No longer do you

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have to say, excuse me,
could we pause this relationship for just a

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moment? Well, have you take
this survey so I know I do love

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you? That's awkward. You don't
have to do awkward anymore. So this

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is what doctor Doug. This is
what helped me move away from that habit

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of being critical, to the habit
of being what's right with that person?

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What can I love about that person? And focusing on their positive tre focusing

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on that eighty to ninety percent of
what's good about that person. And I

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was so busy doing that, I
forgot to be annoyed. I forgot to

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look at other people's faults and mistakes, and it's easier now to look for

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what's right about them. Oh,
I love that concept and the game.

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I think that's fantastic. You know, it's it's really interesting as you're talking

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about this and what comes to my
mind. And this is because I've you

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know, really received so much information
from people that I've been able to interview,

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including yourself. But what I find
fascinating is that what you're really saying

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in my mind is here are these
emotions that are there subconsciously that any event

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can trigger at any point in time. And yet you are consciously with your

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mindset saying I'm going to do something
different, and you are creating a different

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environ because you are number one,
taking the responsibility, but number two,

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you are purposely and consciously making a
decision to do something different. And I

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love what you talk about with the
love languages. I find that so interesting

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because you know, being able to
recognize ultimately what someone else's love language is

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and then being able to communicate in
a way that they receive that, what

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a difference that has to make in
their lives, not only in your life,

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Because now you've eliminated some of that
habitual anger and so forth. But

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what a difference that makes in their
lives when they find that there's someone that

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is expressing quote that type of love
to them. Absolutely, doctor Doug.

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What I found out is that as
I interact with people, and I'm interacting

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quite a bit through the day,
but I can light up three to ten

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people in a day, it actually
does exactly what you said, doctor Doug.

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It makes their day. And when
I can make somebody day, help

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them have a happier day, there's
great satisfaction for me to be able to

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do that too. It really is
almost that motivating, that adrenaline juice that

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keeps you going to keep going with
that purpose that you talk about that purpose

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or that theme of the day all
day long. And that's why there's pictures.

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There's no words on the dice.
That's why it's pictures. Those pictures

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are memory hooks. You're you're been
out of the country yourself, doctor Doug,

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and you know that if you're going
to learn a foreign language, you

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have to have memory hooks because the
words are totally different than what you're used

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to and so if you can attach
a hook or a visual to that word

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that you're talking about, then that
word's going to stay in your mind.

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Take, for example, the word
elephant, E, L, E,

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P, H, and and T
doesn't come to mind. The picture comes

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to mind. Well, And so
I want to stop right here and find

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out how does one get one of
those ice one of those language dies to

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you actually make them available to people, or is this just kind of your

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own thing, you know, Doctor
Doug actually started out as my own thing,

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00:23:10.839 --> 00:23:14.039
and it started out like this.
You can see it's a two and

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a half inch block of wood,
and you can see the very sharp edges

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on the wood. And it was
kind of an epiphany when I said,

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oh, I'm the person with sharp
edges. I'm kind of like that block

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of wood and I and this was
this was really kind of a weighted dice

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because if I had that whatever I
wanted on top, it would go thunk,

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dunk, thunk, and it might
show up on top, or if

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I knew it'd be three thunks.
By rolling, it wasn't rolling very well

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because of the sharp edges. I
had to had to babble the edges off.

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Now rolled a lot better, and
then it took two years to get

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the regular artwork to become to get
the dice. So I do create the

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dice. I did make these dice
one about one inch square or one if

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cubed, and I provide them for
others as well. You can get it

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at my website rollolove dot com.
And it's a kind of a play on

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words, Doctor Doug, you roll
ROLLL the dice outside of you, r

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l E is what changes you within. It's rol e of love dot com.

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Okay, I appreciate that because I'm
going to order one of those and

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when I get back to the US. But here's the question that I have.

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You know, one of the things
that I have read a lot about,

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and I think that I've heard philosophically
this a lot, is that in

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order to be able to give love, you need to be able to receive

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and feel love. You cannot give
what you don't have personally. What are

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your thoughts on that and where you
experience, what you experienced in your childhood,

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how did you get to the point
where you were receiving sufficient love that

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you could then share that with others. Because it's one thing to use words,

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it's another thing to use that emotion
of love behind those words that really

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then affects the other person, Doctor
Doug. That's a great question, and

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I want to kind of couch it
in a way that my parents grew up.

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My mother graduated from eighth grade and
did get any other education. Became

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a truck driver. That's why he
came home on weekends, and he came

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00:25:21.920 --> 00:25:26.000
home on Fridays. That's when he
dated my mother, and my mother had

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a high school education. I really
put a lot of stock in education.

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00:25:30.160 --> 00:25:34.359
All my children now, with exception
of just one, have college degrees.

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And so it took me twenty two
years to get a college degree. But

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after I did that, I felt
a lot more calm. I felt a

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00:25:42.279 --> 00:25:48.160
lot more understanding than any other time
in my whole life. Education is key,

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00:25:48.440 --> 00:25:52.680
and you need to invest in yourself
to get that education. Whether it's

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books, whether it was my book, whether it's doctor Chapman's book, whether

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it's books or other books about love
and about expressing yourself in a pro ways.

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One of the first books I bought
was maybe The Art of Conversation or

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the Game of Work, and it
was very old books back in the early

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eighties that I bought these books.
But I wanted to get better in that

347
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way. I wanted to make work
a game so it didn't seem like I

348
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was working all the rest of my
life. Now here here here it is.

349
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I made my own game, and
it's kind of it's loving is it

350
00:26:26.039 --> 00:26:30.359
can be called work, but it's
really a lot of fun, you know,

351
00:26:30.400 --> 00:26:33.319
you said it's it's that it might
be difficult to give love a way

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if you don't have that inside.
I think education, like I said,

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was a key. But you're not
going to sit in a chair in your

354
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house and expect love to come knocking
on your door. But I know that

355
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you can walk in your neighborhood and
there's pain under every household. Pain.

356
00:26:52.200 --> 00:26:56.160
If you'll find someone that is maybe
just a little lower, feeling a little

357
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lower than you are, that day, you can raise them up, You

358
00:27:00.160 --> 00:27:04.519
can uplift them, help them have
a better day. And when you do

359
00:27:04.599 --> 00:27:10.200
that, not only is their day
better, not only have you brightened their

360
00:27:10.319 --> 00:27:12.599
life, but you brighten your own
life as well. All right, So

361
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as you're giving love, you're receiving
love, and perhaps from a higher realm

362
00:27:18.640 --> 00:27:22.160
that's occurring. But the reality,
I love what you say. The reality

363
00:27:22.319 --> 00:27:27.079
is is that you really as you
seek to give love to others you receive

364
00:27:27.200 --> 00:27:37.000
love yourself and that just increases and
increases, which I really love. So

365
00:27:37.839 --> 00:27:41.519
what have you experienced now? I
mean, you've literally made some changes,

366
00:27:41.559 --> 00:27:45.640
and I don't know how many years
this is, but as you talked about

367
00:27:45.720 --> 00:27:51.559
how you really started to make that
change and do something completely different, how

368
00:27:51.640 --> 00:27:56.720
has that affected your life and how
has that affected the life of those around

369
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you that are more personal friends,
your family, or so forth. Great

370
00:28:02.559 --> 00:28:07.559
question, doctor Legg. Obviously,
when you try something new, whether stopping

371
00:28:07.640 --> 00:28:11.680
smoking or or not smoking, or
you're doing trying to trying to break an

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00:28:11.720 --> 00:28:18.119
old habit that all your friends know
about, there's always skepticism. Sometimes there's

373
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a lot of encouragement. Sometimes there's
no encouragement. Sometimes there are hecklers whatever

374
00:28:22.279 --> 00:28:26.440
it is that they're gonna they're watching
you. They're absolutely watching you, and

375
00:28:26.519 --> 00:28:30.920
they'll they'll have that fine tooth comb
out to watch for for errors. Hopefully

376
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they're not of the type of person
that I was stacking those annoyances until they

377
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have the flash of anchor being annoyed
at you that you're not keeping true to

378
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what you're trying to do. You'll
you'll make mistakes and you'll you'll you'll just

379
00:28:45.400 --> 00:28:49.880
try to fix those mistakes along the
way. And I think that people that

380
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are your friends are going to be
give you some of that latitude to be

381
00:28:53.240 --> 00:28:56.599
able to do that. For new
people that you meet, new friends that

382
00:28:56.680 --> 00:29:00.440
you make, it's really you're going
to be a totally different person than what

383
00:29:00.559 --> 00:29:07.359
your old friends looked at and thought
you were. When you get and it's

384
00:29:07.440 --> 00:29:11.240
a little trepidated when it's almost like
an imposter syndrome, so to speak,

385
00:29:11.680 --> 00:29:15.279
that you get to the point that, well, I'm not really that loving

386
00:29:15.400 --> 00:29:21.519
person because I'm this person that was
stacking the annoyances and more critical as a

387
00:29:21.599 --> 00:29:23.319
child. I thought it'd be a
great movie critic. But I didn't like

388
00:29:23.400 --> 00:29:29.160
watching movies, but I liked being
critical, So they didn't. They didn't

389
00:29:29.200 --> 00:29:33.799
mess together. But it was just
that thing that people are gunshy if you

390
00:29:33.880 --> 00:29:37.680
were a critical person like I was. If you're a critical person, people

391
00:29:37.680 --> 00:29:41.079
are gonna be gun shy around you. You'll repel the people. It's like

392
00:29:41.160 --> 00:29:45.680
that person in the swimming pool that
has an accident, doctor Doug, and

393
00:29:45.720 --> 00:29:48.559
then everybody scatters said, wasn't me, It wasn't me, wasn't me.

394
00:29:48.839 --> 00:29:52.839
There you are isolated all by yourself. I didn't want those feelings anymore.

395
00:29:52.920 --> 00:29:57.160
I did not want to send people
away to repel people. I wanted people

396
00:29:57.160 --> 00:30:00.440
to start coming to me. So
that's what it looks like now that people

397
00:30:00.480 --> 00:30:06.200
come to me and they know that
I'll be more loving, especially new people

398
00:30:06.200 --> 00:30:08.519
that I've met. But my family
starting to come back, They're starting to

399
00:30:08.559 --> 00:30:14.960
believe that there actually has been a
change. There actually has been some some

400
00:30:15.039 --> 00:30:18.160
differences that that I've made in my
own life that are worth coming back and

401
00:30:18.279 --> 00:30:23.000
looking looking at. You know,
and you say something that I find fascinating,

402
00:30:23.039 --> 00:30:27.880
and I think it's a common statement, but I'm not sure I agree

403
00:30:27.880 --> 00:30:33.119
with it. Yeah, when you
talk about you know, you're innately angry

404
00:30:33.279 --> 00:30:36.359
or this or that that's just who
you were. Uh. You know,

405
00:30:37.599 --> 00:30:44.960
My sense is that innately we are
good. We are loving. We we

406
00:30:44.960 --> 00:30:51.839
we really are we. We came
to this earth as a genuinely good,

407
00:30:52.000 --> 00:30:59.039
loving being person. But what happens
then is between the ages of zero,

408
00:30:59.240 --> 00:31:03.920
at about eight seven or eight,
all of a sudden, all of those

409
00:31:03.720 --> 00:31:07.400
elements of our environment, of our
parents, of our school, of our

410
00:31:07.440 --> 00:31:11.559
religion, of all of those types
of things start to affect us, and

411
00:31:11.599 --> 00:31:17.640
our perception is is that if those
things are occurring, that is true,

412
00:31:17.759 --> 00:31:23.599
and therefore we embed within ourselves a
belief system that we believe is true.

413
00:31:23.720 --> 00:31:26.759
And therefore we say, well that
innately, this is how I am,

414
00:31:27.039 --> 00:31:33.039
when in fact that's not true.
It's just merely things that have been embedded

415
00:31:33.039 --> 00:31:41.599
in your conscious and subconscious mind,
that is what it is. And yet

416
00:31:41.680 --> 00:31:45.240
if you really get behind that,
and you know, move all of that

417
00:31:45.480 --> 00:31:48.640
away, all of a sudden,
you realize, you know what, there

418
00:31:48.720 --> 00:31:53.240
is a goodness innately about me.
And I think it's important for people to

419
00:31:53.359 --> 00:32:00.480
understand that that they are truly good, They're truly kind, they're truly loving.

420
00:32:00.880 --> 00:32:04.720
That's who they are, and it's
all this other junk that has been

421
00:32:05.000 --> 00:32:08.920
embedded into our lives that has created
who we think we are, when in

422
00:32:09.000 --> 00:32:14.200
fact, in reality, that's not
who we are. I agree with you,

423
00:32:14.279 --> 00:32:16.880
doctor Dugan. If I said and
that was probably that was very much

424
00:32:16.920 --> 00:32:21.519
the wrong word to say. It
was more of a personality trait that I

425
00:32:21.599 --> 00:32:25.960
had at the time when that association
early early with my children, early with

426
00:32:27.039 --> 00:32:31.880
my family, that association would have
me be more angry or stacking those annoyances

427
00:32:32.000 --> 00:32:37.160
than a critical type of person.
But now it's different now. What I

428
00:32:37.200 --> 00:32:40.880
find I'm doing is I'm stacking kindness
on top of kindness, on top of

429
00:32:42.000 --> 00:32:46.400
kindness on top of kindness, and
it doesn't come to any flash of kindness,

430
00:32:46.640 --> 00:32:52.079
but it comes to a new realization
of higher laws of love. These

431
00:32:52.839 --> 00:32:59.759
laws of the five love languages are
basic, basic literacy levels of love in

432
00:32:59.759 --> 00:33:02.920
my mind, my estimation, but
we can use them as stair steps,

433
00:33:02.920 --> 00:33:07.559
doctor Doug to get to the higher
laws of love like charity or compassion,

434
00:33:08.200 --> 00:33:15.000
or forgiveness or mercy, or trust
or intimacy. Can you imagine someone wanting

435
00:33:15.119 --> 00:33:19.440
intimacy and an insult to insult insult, insult insult and expecting it at the

436
00:33:19.519 --> 00:33:23.359
end of the day or whenever.
Expecting it doesn't work, Absolutely doesn't work.

437
00:33:23.680 --> 00:33:28.000
You've got to have stack those kindnesses
to get to those higher laws of

438
00:33:28.079 --> 00:33:35.400
love. And that's the joy and
the great feelings that I've got right now,

439
00:33:35.720 --> 00:33:39.359
And the great happiness that I'm finding
is that this is much better life.

440
00:33:39.519 --> 00:33:45.279
I don't want that that life of
criticism anymore. I just like this

441
00:33:45.400 --> 00:33:49.720
life of that's stacking the kindnesses.
And so as I do that, more

442
00:33:49.720 --> 00:33:52.440
people are starting to believe that,
yeah, he's trying to be as kind

443
00:33:52.480 --> 00:33:57.240
as possible. I know I have
a lot of voice, and I love

444
00:33:57.279 --> 00:34:00.079
how you really are using this word
of this kind scept you didn't use it

445
00:34:00.119 --> 00:34:04.960
of becoming. You know, as
you say, you start out with these

446
00:34:05.000 --> 00:34:07.800
love languages and consciously doing what you're
doing with your dyce and so forth,

447
00:34:08.400 --> 00:34:13.840
but then ultimately it brings you to
a point where you have become one of

448
00:34:13.920 --> 00:34:17.119
empathy, You become one of kindness, you become one of giving, all

449
00:34:17.199 --> 00:34:22.920
of those type of things that all
of the religious leaders that we have ever

450
00:34:23.000 --> 00:34:28.719
experienced, whether it's Buddha, whether
it's Christ, whether it's Muhammad, all

451
00:34:28.760 --> 00:34:34.719
of those leaders talked about that higher
level of kindness, of empathy, of

452
00:34:34.800 --> 00:34:39.000
giving, and what you're sharing,
in my mind is a way a stepping

453
00:34:39.320 --> 00:34:45.519
stonewayh stares to be able to move
to that point in our lives where we

454
00:34:45.679 --> 00:34:50.480
become that and we naturally or that. I'm curious what motivated you to write

455
00:34:50.519 --> 00:34:54.280
your book Role of Love and what
do you describe in that book and how

456
00:34:54.280 --> 00:34:59.760
can that help people to better their
own personal lives as they read it.

457
00:35:00.880 --> 00:35:04.519
Good question, doctor Doug, And
I love that you talked about getting to

458
00:35:04.599 --> 00:35:09.000
the nirvana, the actually that hard
level. I love the word nirvana.

459
00:35:09.039 --> 00:35:14.400
It's just one of those words I
like. But what motivated me to write

460
00:35:14.400 --> 00:35:19.679
the book? I actually copyrighted the
Dice in twenty seventeen, and I had

461
00:35:19.719 --> 00:35:24.000
it and I was testing the market
and seeing if if there might be other

462
00:35:24.039 --> 00:35:29.519
people like myself that might want to
overcome that addiction to be critical or that

463
00:35:29.639 --> 00:35:32.599
tendency to be critical and want to
be more positive in their life. And

464
00:35:32.679 --> 00:35:37.719
I was finding finding a little success
here and there. One time I presented

465
00:35:37.760 --> 00:35:42.800
it in a couple of years ago, I presented it to a family health

466
00:35:44.159 --> 00:35:52.599
or a family mental health specialist,
just with him. He's in the area

467
00:35:52.639 --> 00:35:55.559
where I live, and he said
this. He says, it's a great

468
00:35:55.599 --> 00:36:00.960
tool, except that it doesn't come
with a manual. He said, you

469
00:36:00.000 --> 00:36:06.119
actually need. This is so different, such a different application from what doctor

470
00:36:06.199 --> 00:36:12.400
Chapman had provided. Doctor Chapman's application
was more a romantic type of relationship.

471
00:36:12.760 --> 00:36:15.960
I created this when I'm single,
And I said, doctor Chapman, who

472
00:36:15.000 --> 00:36:17.719
in the heck am I supposed to
love? I don't have that significant other

473
00:36:17.800 --> 00:36:22.760
that you're talking about. And I
realized, oh, I get to love

474
00:36:22.880 --> 00:36:28.400
everybody. And it was perfect for
me, because I don't know anybody doctor

475
00:36:28.400 --> 00:36:34.119
Doug that's with their significant other twenty
four to seven. I needed a consistent

476
00:36:34.320 --> 00:36:39.480
and a constant, almost as it
were, a constant way to change that

477
00:36:39.599 --> 00:36:45.199
habit, change that habit of being
critical. This was the perfect vehicle for

478
00:36:45.280 --> 00:36:49.639
me. I had to create a
habit of what's right about that person?

479
00:36:49.760 --> 00:36:53.199
What are the virtues of that person, looking at their virtues all day long,

480
00:36:53.800 --> 00:37:00.159
looking at the virtues of everyone all
day long. And by doing that

481
00:37:00.599 --> 00:37:06.880
I was able to make the changes. But the mental health specialists said that

482
00:37:07.639 --> 00:37:12.079
I need to write a book because
of that big difference there is in the

483
00:37:12.119 --> 00:37:17.039
way that this is applied. So
with his instructions or with that idea,

484
00:37:17.679 --> 00:37:22.360
I quickly was able to write down
all the ideas that I had and put

485
00:37:22.400 --> 00:37:25.119
it out on a spreadsheet. And
when I put it out on a spreadsheet,

486
00:37:25.320 --> 00:37:29.480
I had ten different columns, thinking
I'd have ten different chapters. That

487
00:37:29.679 --> 00:37:32.360
ended up to have eleven chapters,
but ten different chapters. And I put

488
00:37:32.400 --> 00:37:38.119
everything that applied to that theme on
that chapter in the columns. And it

489
00:37:38.159 --> 00:37:42.559
took less than six weeks to write. The book took longer to edit.

490
00:37:42.599 --> 00:37:46.480
It took longer to create a to
organize it, to format the book,

491
00:37:46.679 --> 00:37:51.360
and to create the cover. But
published it just last year in January.

492
00:37:52.119 --> 00:37:54.400
Wow, And how do folks reach
your book? How do they find it?

493
00:37:54.960 --> 00:37:59.039
They can also find it on my
website where they'll find the dice Roll

494
00:37:59.079 --> 00:38:02.639
Oflove dot com. Or the book
actually is on Audible. If you've got

495
00:38:02.800 --> 00:38:08.000
many listeners that love listening to podcasts, love listening to books on Audible,

496
00:38:08.360 --> 00:38:14.039
they can find it on Audible on
Amazon. And if they go on Amazon,

497
00:38:14.119 --> 00:38:16.559
they want to type in my name
Paul Zolman, the O L M

498
00:38:16.599 --> 00:38:20.480
A N. And it's uh,
they don't want to type in roll of

499
00:38:20.599 --> 00:38:22.719
Love. You'll get love this love
that love a million things because of all

500
00:38:22.719 --> 00:38:27.119
the things that about love. On
Amazon, but type in my name,

501
00:38:27.159 --> 00:38:30.840
it'll take you right to it.
You'll get to there's a kindle version of

502
00:38:30.920 --> 00:38:35.519
the book and the Audible version,
the paper version for those that are international,

503
00:38:35.599 --> 00:38:38.119
paper version might be something that they
can get. But the dice I

504
00:38:38.159 --> 00:38:45.280
only have on my website, and
so is as you purchase the book or

505
00:38:45.320 --> 00:38:46.559
as you listen to the book.
And I'm going to get it on Audible

506
00:38:46.679 --> 00:38:50.320
because I love that when I walk, I love to listen to that.

507
00:38:52.119 --> 00:38:55.039
Is that specific towards the dice?
Is is it a is it, as

508
00:38:55.079 --> 00:39:00.079
you say, kind of a manual
of how to use the dice and how

509
00:39:00.119 --> 00:39:04.920
to apply that whole concept. So
people can literally read that and go,

510
00:39:05.000 --> 00:39:08.360
Okay, I'm choosing to use this
concept to improve my life in the life

511
00:39:08.400 --> 00:39:13.119
of those around me. Is that
what it is is kind of a manual

512
00:39:13.159 --> 00:39:17.039
of how to do all of this. It could be doctor Doug and in

513
00:39:17.599 --> 00:39:22.880
essence, yes, it would be
the answer. But don't get hung up

514
00:39:22.920 --> 00:39:25.519
on that. The whole concept of
what I'm trying to put forth is,

515
00:39:25.599 --> 00:39:30.480
let's make this world a little bit
more loving place. There's so much violence,

516
00:39:30.639 --> 00:39:34.679
so much other stuff, so much
other garbage going around. Why can't

517
00:39:34.760 --> 00:39:37.719
we change ourselves? Why can't we
just be that person to go out there?

518
00:39:37.960 --> 00:39:42.000
And so I'm going to give you
give your listeners a hack. You

519
00:39:42.039 --> 00:39:45.159
can use this as a hack for
yourself too. If you're gonna do the

520
00:39:45.199 --> 00:39:47.639
download of the audible, this is
a great hack. Just find a dice,

521
00:39:49.239 --> 00:39:52.800
any dice that has the numbers on
it, and then and then on

522
00:39:52.880 --> 00:39:54.039
a piece of paper right one,
two, three, four, five,

523
00:39:54.199 --> 00:40:00.400
six, and then list all the
sides of the dice, so the last

524
00:40:00.440 --> 00:40:05.719
side has surprised me on that day. You're just watching for opportunities to random

525
00:40:05.719 --> 00:40:09.719
acts of kindness. So list all
of it, doesn't it doesn't matter what

526
00:40:09.920 --> 00:40:15.039
order you listen in, but put
six, six numbers and six names of

527
00:40:15.199 --> 00:40:19.079
the sides of the dice, and
then you just roll that dice whatever number

528
00:40:19.159 --> 00:40:22.119
you come up with. That's the
love language of practicing that day. So

529
00:40:22.159 --> 00:40:24.920
you can do a little hack.
I'm telling you a hack. I'm the

530
00:40:25.000 --> 00:40:29.400
guy that made this and I'm telling
you the hack. So that's what you

531
00:40:29.480 --> 00:40:31.599
can do. Really, really,
don't even have to have the dice.

532
00:40:32.159 --> 00:40:37.840
Just set out to be more loving
today. Start I enjoy that, you

533
00:40:37.880 --> 00:40:42.239
know, I as I've read that, and you're right, there's five,

534
00:40:42.679 --> 00:40:45.440
and I've always thought, you know
what, there's one more missing. And

535
00:40:45.800 --> 00:40:52.239
to me, what that six one
was was communication. And because I think

536
00:40:52.320 --> 00:40:55.840
so many people, you know,
you you receive all of those other things,

537
00:40:55.840 --> 00:41:00.480
whether it's gifts, whether it's time, whether it's you know, service,

538
00:41:00.719 --> 00:41:04.119
whatever that happens to be, whether
it's you know, just the physical

539
00:41:04.159 --> 00:41:09.519
touch of holding hands and hugging or
whatever. But what I found is that

540
00:41:09.519 --> 00:41:15.519
that for me, anyway, the
sixth to one would be communication and recognizing

541
00:41:15.559 --> 00:41:21.280
that all of this can only happen
if we're willing to communicate, and the

542
00:41:21.320 --> 00:41:25.920
other person with whom we are seeking
to develop those type of friendships and so

543
00:41:27.000 --> 00:41:30.840
forth, will also be willing to
communicate. So anyway, that was just

544
00:41:30.000 --> 00:41:35.360
that was just the thought that came
into my mind. So as we as

545
00:41:35.400 --> 00:41:39.760
we close today, I'd love for
you to share with the audience if if

546
00:41:39.800 --> 00:41:45.639
you could, what would be the
main message that you'd like to leave with

547
00:41:45.679 --> 00:41:50.519
them today. Great question, doctor, Thank you for that. You know,

548
00:41:50.559 --> 00:41:52.039
one of the things, there's a
couple of things I like. One

549
00:41:52.119 --> 00:41:57.480
one is the there's we're talking about
languages here, love languages, but there's

550
00:41:57.480 --> 00:42:02.400
a language dialect and they're in India
called the Sanskrit dialect. From that Sanskrit

551
00:42:02.440 --> 00:42:07.239
dialect, we get that word in
nirvana, we get that word karma,

552
00:42:07.559 --> 00:42:12.039
but we also get a word called
namasteh Namaste is what you hear at the

553
00:42:12.119 --> 00:42:16.119
end of a yoga class. The
teacher puts there hands together, the thumb

554
00:42:16.199 --> 00:42:20.199
to the chest and bows their head, close their eyes and said namaste.

555
00:42:21.239 --> 00:42:23.119
What it means? It doesn't mean, hey, all class is over,

556
00:42:23.239 --> 00:42:28.559
you can go now. Doesn't mean
that in the Hindu interpretation, it means

557
00:42:28.599 --> 00:42:31.880
the God in me sees the God
in you, or put another way,

558
00:42:32.320 --> 00:42:37.360
the divine in me sees the divine
in you. I love that part and

559
00:42:37.400 --> 00:42:42.960
I think that as we're looking at
other people, we're watching for what's divine

560
00:42:42.960 --> 00:42:46.800
about them. In India, I've
had several podcasts with podcasters like yourself,

561
00:42:47.239 --> 00:42:52.599
doctor Doug in India and these there
was a thirty eight year old that was

562
00:42:52.639 --> 00:42:58.559
the podcaster and ask him what is
it about the people in India that makes

563
00:42:58.599 --> 00:43:02.719
them so loving, so kind to
other people. I've just had that experience

564
00:43:02.800 --> 00:43:06.559
more than once. What is it
about it? I said? Is it

565
00:43:06.599 --> 00:43:09.519
Mother Teresa? Is it Gandhi?
And this guy's thirty eight years old.

566
00:43:09.880 --> 00:43:15.440
That would be like asking American how
did JFK affect your life? And he's

567
00:43:15.440 --> 00:43:20.199
only thirty eight years old. It
was like way before their time. It

568
00:43:20.280 --> 00:43:23.800
wasn't that he said this. He
said that in India we look at what's

569
00:43:23.880 --> 00:43:29.760
good about other people and what's wrong
with ourselves as try to fix what's wrong

570
00:43:29.800 --> 00:43:32.400
with ourselves. In America, it's
quite different. We look at what's wrong

571
00:43:32.440 --> 00:43:37.280
with other people and think that we're
a lot better than them, and it's

572
00:43:37.360 --> 00:43:39.480
just we've got to turn that around. We've just got to watch for the

573
00:43:39.599 --> 00:43:44.559
divine and other people, watch for
what's right about other people, and just

574
00:43:45.119 --> 00:43:49.159
focus on that. I love it. I love it well, Paul.

575
00:43:49.199 --> 00:43:52.679
Thanks so much for being on the
show. I think this is wonderful and

576
00:43:52.079 --> 00:43:58.199
I love how you've come up with
this whole slightly different concept of something that

577
00:43:58.280 --> 00:44:02.000
was already existing and applied to it
in a way that can help people.

578
00:44:02.320 --> 00:44:07.880
Because again, consciously, I know
that in order to change our lives,

579
00:44:07.920 --> 00:44:13.679
we have to consciously make an effort
and do things differently. And here you've

580
00:44:13.679 --> 00:44:17.760
provided a tool and a game,
as you say, to literally be able

581
00:44:17.800 --> 00:44:23.719
to consciously make those changes. And
I know what will happen for those that

582
00:44:23.840 --> 00:44:29.559
do this because I've experienced this,
is you get to the point where you

583
00:44:29.679 --> 00:44:34.239
start to really feel that sense of
peace, that sense of love, and

584
00:44:34.320 --> 00:44:37.480
guess what, as you get to
that point in time, you're going to

585
00:44:37.519 --> 00:44:42.760
find that you feel healthier, that
you have better relationships, that overall life

586
00:44:43.239 --> 00:44:46.519
is so much better. So for
your contribution to that, thank you so

587
00:44:46.679 --> 00:44:51.880
much. I think that's wonderful.
Thank you, doctor Doug. And it

588
00:44:51.960 --> 00:44:54.079
really has been a pleasure to be
with you today. I look forward to

589
00:44:54.320 --> 00:44:59.199
listening to our podcast as well as
many of others that you've done well.

590
00:44:59.199 --> 00:45:00.960
Thank you and folks, thanks for
listening. Hope you really enjoyed this,

591
00:45:01.079 --> 00:45:06.559
and go to roleoflove dot com and
take a look at those things, because

592
00:45:06.599 --> 00:45:09.320
I think that you'll find that for
many who are seeking to do this but

593
00:45:09.400 --> 00:45:15.199
haven't figured out how, here's a
methodology that allows you to actually do it.

594
00:45:15.360 --> 00:45:20.280
So have a great week, Love
that you listen to us, and

595
00:45:20.360 --> 00:45:23.400
hope you'll join us again soon.
This is doctor Doug saying no mistay