Overcoming Deep Emotional Trauma - Unusual Approach

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This program is designed to provide general
information with regards to the subject matters covered.

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This information is given with the understanding
that neither the hosts, guests,

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sponsors, or station are engaged in
rendering any specific and personal medical, financial,

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legal counseling, professional service, or
any advice. You should seek the

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services of competent professionals before applying or
trying any suggested ideas. At the end

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of the day, it's not about
what you have or even what you've accomplished.

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It's about what you've done with those
accomplishments. It's about who you've lifted

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up, who you've made better.
It's about what you've given back. Thanzel

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Washington, Welcome to Inspire Vision.
Our sole purpose is to elevate the lives

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of others and to inspire you to
do the same. Rachel Lamb, Welcome

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to the show. Thank you,
happy to be here. Hey, I'm

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really excited. You know, as
we were talking a little bit earlier,

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I read an article about you and
what you're doing and in the newspaper,

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and I thought, wow, that
is so cool. I just really want

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to have you on the show.
I'd love for you to share the audience

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who you are, your bio.
That's not who you are, but what

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your bio is. Be very specific
about that. And then once you've done

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that, what I'd like you to
do is kind of share your story.

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What I find fascinating is that as
people get to that level where they're really

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really helping other people in different ways, there's always an intriguing story behind what

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brought them to that point. So
bio and then I'd love for you to

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share your story of what brought you
to this point in your life, of

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what you're doing for others. Yeah, that's great. So I you know,

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I do a lot of things,
and really my whole life has kind

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of had me in a space where
I'm in a helping position for other people.

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And I'm currently I'm a part time
adjunct professor at Weber State University.

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I teach in the psychology department.
I also am academine assisted guide, so

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I was trained in kedemine assisted psychotherapy. I've been doing that work for about

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three years, been in a different
few different clinics, done private work as

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well. So that's that's an interesting, little bit fringe kind of thing that's

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becoming more popular and people are certainly
taking advantage of and then I am also

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a plant medicine integrative guide, so
I work with some different plant medicines,

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happy to talk about those. And
I work in a lot of spiritual spaces

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to work with people who are seeking
healing from trauma. This is this is

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who seems to come to me.
I actually don't advertise, I don't do

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anything. I just get recommendations and
I work with people who are in need.

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And starting from my very first ketemine
clinic I worked at, I just

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seem to get paired with very severe, high trauma folks and have seen incredible

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healing from some of these modalities,
which is why why I'm still here and

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why why I'm you know, improving
and furthering my own education and in training

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and all of these things. So
I'm also a mom. I'm a mom

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of a fifteen year old girl.
Also do some freelance writing and things like

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that to try to put some things
out there specific to mental health, specific

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too systemic oppression, racial, you
know, systemic oppression and things like that.

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I'm also a biracial person. I'm
half Chinese. I have an immigrant

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father who came here in his twenties
and then a kind of blue collar white

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American mother and so so there's a
lot that adds to this whole mix of

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things. Yes, and how did
you come to this point? Yes,

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I so as people here with other
stories like this, I had a breakdown.

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I had a breakdown. I have
suffered from depression on and off my

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whole life. Now I'm a forty
four year old person. When I was

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a teenager and suffering from some of
those symptoms, nobody was talking about this.

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Nobody was talking about mental health.
My mom didn't know about such things,

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you know, in a way that
she could help me. So I

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have been a sufferer on and off
for my whole life, you know,

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have been in and out of therapy, have been on and off medications.

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Was in kind of my full time
career. I got my PhD in twenty

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thirteen, and I went into full
time academic research. Enjoyed some of it,

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did not enjoy other parts of it, and I ended up in a

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really just high stress place that a
depressive episode essentially hit me really really hard.

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It was the worst one I've ever
had, and that was five years

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ago. So that led me to
quit my career. Essentially, I couldn't

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do the work I was not getting
very good help. At the time,

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I was living in Switzerland. I
had taken some job as overseas, and

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so we had to move back.
We had to come back to the US.

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And so when I came back to
the US in twenty eighteen, I

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was severely, severely depressed and severely
suicidal, with a child who was at

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the time ten years old, and
my ex husband and you know, trying

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to trying to work with me and
work through all this. I realized that

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I was not doing a good job
at self care. I was not taking

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care of myself emotionally. I wanted
to help everybody else and I wanted to

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do all the work, and I
ran myself completely just spread so thin,

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I was burnt out, I was
hot, you know, in a state

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of high stress. I typically don't
have anxiety with my depression episodes, but

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this time I had severe, severe
anxiety with it, and so I got

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help. I took time off.
I had the luxury of doing that.

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My husband at the time worked and
supported me that way, and it took

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about it took about a year.
I have worked my entire life since age

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sixteen up until I was age thirty
nine, and I took a year off.

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And what I did is I went
to therapy twice a week starting.

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I bounced around amidst trying to get
myself steady. And I started doing yoga

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and meditation every day. And I
can tell you I was not motivated it

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would. I didn't think it was
helping me. I just had nothing else

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to do. There would be days
where I would be like, I could

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go to bed for the rest of
the day, or let me do my

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fifteen minutes of meditation. And so
I spent a year. I spent a

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year healing. And when I wanted
to get back into the workforce, I

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did not want to go back to
academic research. So I looked for teaching

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jobs and I reached out to some
people I knew in mental health, and

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I said, how do I get
into mental health? Can I get into

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mental health with a PhD in psychology
that's not clinical and I don't have a

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license? Can I do that without
going back to school for another degree that

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I don't really want to get?
Right. So a man at the time

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who was a therapist, he said, I'm working at a Kenymyane clinic.

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He said, you've a PhD in
psychology, Come on over. We'll train

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you to be a guide. And
so I didn't know what Kenemy was.

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I said, what's that? What's
you know? I don't know anything about

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this. And he told me,
you know this, it's a it's a

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psychedelic medicine. It's actually dissociative.
He said, you know, it used

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to be known as a party drug. And I said, oh my gosh,

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you know all these you know,
I'm like thinking, this is weird.

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So I jump into this world and
I started to learn. I got

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trained, I started reading some of
the actual research on it. It's fascinating

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research on all of the psychedelic delic
medicines out there right now. It's like,

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no, the effectiveness of these is
like nothing that's yet been seen in

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mental health. So I was kind
of hooked in from that standpoint as well,

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because as an academic, I read
the actual medical article, you know,

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I go through and I'm like,
let me know about this, and

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it was so the work was so
natural for me. The work was very

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very natural for me, and it
was really just sitting with people while they

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take the medicine and go on a
journey, go on a trip, and

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support them however they need. And
a number of many things can happen when

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people are in such states, and
so I seem to have this knack for

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just being in that space with people
and holding space with people. My trainer

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at the time, she was like, you should keep doing this, and

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I said, I like this work. This is work that feels fulfilling.

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Now it's not work I can do
full time. I don't think anybody should

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do this full time because it's extremely
intense. So this is why I sort

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of have my feet in a few
different spaces right now. It's part of

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my own way to keep balance and
then just keeping up on my own healing

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and self care, you know,
doing the things that I need to do.

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I can't do this work. I
can't do this healing work if I

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am not well. It's kind of
like, you know, I have to

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keep my cup filled. I can't
pour from an empty cup, those kinds

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of things. And so so that's
kind of how I got to this place,

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and then from there have met a
lot of folks in the communities around

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the whole world, to be honest, that are using different psychedelic medicines and

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plants in clinical trials and in indigenous
you know, spaces and other countries where

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you know, there's different legalities and
things like that, and so I've just

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been pretty plugged in as much as
I can be since since starting with ketamine

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a few years ago. Well,
you know, and I find that fascinating.

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You talk about the research. I
mean when when I was first looking

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at you know, having having a
chat with you and I, you know,

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I saw that you were involved in
quote ketamine clinic, and it's like,

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erwell, immediately what comes to my
mind, is ketamine illegal really causing

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all sorts of problems within our country
as well as others. And so I

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got on the internet and I said, all right, I want to I

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want to research what this is all
about. And all of a sudden,

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here this is, you know,
back to the Vietnam War and all of

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that. All of a sudden,
scientists were finding that ketamine made a huge

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difference in in healing people and then
getting into the whole aspect of mental health

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and how it really was starting to
help people also, and it just it

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caused me to look at that from
an entirely different perspective. And then you

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talk about the different psychedelic plans and
so forth, which I find fascinating and

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yet you know, what I think
for the audience is they're hearing us talk

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is kind of out there, you
know, it's a little bit outside of

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the norm. And so what I
want to do today is really help people

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to understand, based on your experience
and your knowledge, what is it and

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how is it helping and why do
we not need to be afraid of that

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approach, but also how do we
make sure that we approach it in a

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healthy, intelligent way rather than finding
ourselves caught up in an addictive way.

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So, lots of things, lots
of things there. So, first of

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all, ketamine is completely legal.
Ketamine is used as an anesthesia in ers,

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for often the elderly and children because
of how safe it is. It's

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one of the safest drugs out there. It's actually ketamine is considered I think

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a Schedule three. A lot of
the other psychedelics are still considered Schedule one

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drugs, which is political. That's
not because of the characteristics of what they

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have. And one of those is
that they are not addictive. They are

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not addictive like opiates are. They're
not addictive like alcohol is. So there's

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definitely stories of people using street ketamine. People on the street partying using ketamine.

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You can get addicted to anything by
the way, I mean you just

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shop and gambling, you know,
So in that sense, like you know,

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just like any other thing that you
can get into, you know,

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there's a risk in that. But
ketamine is in particular, is very very

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safe. All of the psychedelic medicines, especially the plant based ones, are

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very very safe and they are not
addictive. And so there's a lot of

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there's been a lot of just a
bad reputation out there that started in the

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seventies, you know, that started
with folks we're doing this research in the

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sixties, you know, fifties and
sixties into the seventies, and everything got

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shut down. Nixon sort of shut
everything down, and this War on drugs

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all these things, so that that's
a whole other aspect of this. Ketamine

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is one hundred percent legal, and
ketamine has been approved for I think they

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call it non like non label depression. So the research on ketymine right now

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is very positive for people who have
treatment resistant depression. That's one of that's

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kind of the first place I would
say where there's been a lot of work

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done. There's also research on ketymine
and other psychedelics for addiction for PTSD works

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being done with veterans using psychedelic medicines. There's MDMA is another psychedelic that's in

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tons of clinical trials right now.
Psilocybin mushrooms are another psychedelic that are in

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clinical trials, and Oregon it's looking
like it's probably going to be the first

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state that's going to have psilocybin clinics, just like we have ketamine clinics.

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So there's this ball that's been rolling. There's been very rigorous research that's been

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going on for several years now.
So compared to and I'm not kidding when

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I say this, compared to the
pain pills people get prescribed, these are

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extremely safe. These are actually extremely
safe medicines. Now you do have a

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you you do enter into an altered
state of consciousness with these medicines. So

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I'm going to just stick with ketamaine. I've worked with ketamine a lot,

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and it is legal right now in
Utah right absolutely, Academy clinic all over

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Now, the way that I was
trained in what I've seen out there,

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it really is beneficial. I would
say it's actually necessary to have a guide.

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There are kademine clinics that I see
that sit you in a sterile room

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that looks like a dentist office,
gives you drugs and goes into another room

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and monitors you from an iPad.
And I do not think that is good

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practice. It's legal practice for now, but that that's that's not what I

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do, that's not what I learned. And so when you come into academy

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clinics. Academy clinic I was just
working for. This has closed down since,

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but the owner's kind of restructuring and
figuring some things out. I our

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model was to sit with people the
entire time. One person will be with

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this person the entire time, which
might last up to three hours. You

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can have a two to three hour
depending on which depending on how you do

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it. You can get it via
IV, you can get it via intramuscular

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injection, or you can get it
via lozenges. So I worked primarily with

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lozenges at this last clinic. I
worked with intramuscular injection and lozenges prior to

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that. So our model is to
have a person sit with you and if

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you need to talk, you can
talk a lot of times because you're in

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this altered state. You process trauma
through your body. It's one aspect.

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So you might hit flight flight and
your body will have a response. Your

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hands might go ice cold, or
you'll have to go to the bathroom,

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or you'll feel sick to your stomach. These things are all happening partly because

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you're in this altered state of consciousness
that's letting your brain sort of be a

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little bit free. People will say, you know, your ego kind of

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goes to sleep. You kind of
quiet down, your ego goes your protector.

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You quiet down your ego a little
bit, and you can kind of

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process these things. So when you
hit fight flight in these things, it's

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not like it happens like so PTSD. For instance, therapy is really hard

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to help PTSD because when you get
triggered back into the trauma you fly into

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fight flight, you can't think anymore. Your brain's been hijacked. You've been

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hijacked essentially by your amigdilo, which
is the part of your brain that is

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triggered with fight flight. So when
you are unpsychedelic medicines, this is all

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very very different. You can hit
kind of a trauma place and you don't

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have that same fear. You don't
have that same like fear that kicks in.

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You can have scary trips. I
don't want to miss I don't want

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to mislead people with you. Don't
just come and get high on drugs for

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two hours and feel happy and great. That can happen. You can have

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a very blissful, peaceful experience a
lot of times with ketamine. Your first

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one or two will actually be kind
of like that. And the way we

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talk about it is that the medicine
sort of working on you and preparing you.

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These don't work on you like a
benzodiazepine, for instance, Like you

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don't take like you take a benzodiazepine
and it works on your brain immediately and

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you start to calm down. Psychedelic
meds ketymine included, they are a catalyst

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for you to process and heal whatever
it is that's inside of you. So

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it's different in that way and how
it works. But you may have any

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number of situations going on. You
might be crying and bawling and you need

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someone to hold you and hug you, and that's what I do. That's

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what I do as a guide in
that moment. So I'm also trained in

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some energy work. I'm trained in
some I practice chigong that might have been

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in the news circle, but I
practice chigong every day and I use some

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of that to work on people as
well. So I'll use you know,

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you can call it somatic therapy,
like very gentle like pressure and massage on

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the hands and feet. It's to
help ground people. If you do have

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some anxiety rising in a psychedelic journey, you can be help, you can

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be grounded, you can be kind
of pulled back a little bit. And

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that's sort of that sort of part
of this dance that I would do with

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people moment by moment, just with
whatever they're needing. So in any case

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that it can be a very I
mean, I have seen very, very

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beautiful experiences. This is why I
keep doing this. And I have had

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so many clients that are like,
I've never touched your drug at all,

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but I have had depression or anxiety
or PTSD or compet PTSD, you know,

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for decades, and I can't get
help, and I want to try

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this, like it's legal. I'm
ready to try something different, So you

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don't, you know, there's a
lot of I think, just misconceptions and

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things like that out there about these
medicines. But I mean I just encourage

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people read the research yourself. I
mean, you know, like you went

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and you looked it up, You're
like, oh this is interesting. Uh

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Like this is different. This is
not how we thought about you know,

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I know, twenty years ago,
if somebody said special K to me,

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I would go, oh, yeah
that party drug. Isn't that a horse

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trank light? You know, you
just random stuff on the street. And

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here now it is. I mean, it's being used very very effectively for

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all kinds of all kinds of trauma
related depression, anxiety, P two,

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you know, all these things,
which I do think at the root of

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all of those things is trauma,
is unresolved trauma. And so I see

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this whole kind of world of medicines
that we have and practices, you know,

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the guidework that comes with it.
The other piece of this that is

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missing in some places is integration,
what we call integration. Our clinic did

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integration. It was kind of mandatory. You have to do integration after you

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have journey or after you have session, and that's meeting afterwards when you're not

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compromised and you're in your normal state
of consciousness and talking about what happened,

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and talking about how to incorporate what
you learn from that experience and what came

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from there into your actual daily life
to have new practices and to make those

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new practices have it, you know, to make the healthy practices have it.

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So this should all be involved with
all of these medicines. In my

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opinion, it's not always. So
people should definitely do their homework, be

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careful. If you're going to seek
this out, look for places where they

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offer guides for you. Sometimes it's
a therapist, sometimes it's a licensed therapist

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that's also trained to guide. And
then if you dip into other spaces,

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you know, in other places where
you have access to different plants and things,

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that's often done with a shaman or
you know, an indigenous healer,

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people on native reservations, you know, to do some of this work,

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do your homework and talk to people
and get a sense feel them out.

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If they feel wrong, don't go
with them. If someone feels safe to

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you, you can continue on that
path of learning and seeking out kind of

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what you need. So it is
I think there is a little bit of

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a different caution people have to take
because there's still a lot of things that

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aren't regulated, and there's still conversation
in the community about who gets to be

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a guide. People will tell me, well, you shouldn't be a guie

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because you're not a licensed therapist.
And I'm like, there's one hundred thousand

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years of shops doing this work like
that didn't take credics or whatever. You

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know what I mean, you know, I laugh. I laugh about Rachel

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because you know, it's like,
here, you are a PhD. Now,

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admittedly you know it had to do
with some you know, the research.

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I have a daughter. Unfortunately I
wish I was. Yeah, and

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you know, yeah, it doesn't
matter because what any of us know that

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have gone through that process of education, okay, is that the reality is

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is that once you've gone through the
schooling, you can then with that interest

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in, with that curiosity, study
and all of a sudden that you become

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as proficient in other areas without quote
the degree. And as you say,

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you have to be careful as you're
seeking help, because there are some that

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just jump right into it. There
are others that such as yourself, that

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have really taken the time to learn, to study, to be trained.

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And guess what it's It's like you
know you have your PhD in that too.

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It's just that you can't legally quote
say that you do what. I

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don't know you any therapy because I'm
not. But you guide, you guide,

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yes. And so one thing you
mentioned Safe Harbor Ketamine clinic that's no

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longer open. It's no longer open. Yeah. We stayed open for about

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a year and three months, so
we serve a lot of people. It

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was a lot of beautiful feeling that
we saw there, and the owner just

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a couple of months ago she decided
to close down. So Saber is no

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longer We're hoping it will come back. Okay, you know what I want

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to talk about, and this is
where my mind goes, so you know,

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forgive me, But where are you
going? You know, as I've

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been, first of all, meditation. I love meditation. I started that

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a number of months ago and now
as I walk and I do a walking

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meditation, sometimes I'm just listening to
music that's kind of that HEMI sync that

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my understandings. That helped your bringing
to become more more focused and appropriate there.

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But I've also been listening to some
interesting books. One one of them

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in listening to is Eckhart Totally is
a New Earth, And in there he

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talks about and you said some keywords
that really struck me on this. He

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talked about consciousness, he talked about
ego, and as you're talking about these

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psychedelic quote psychedelic drugs, you know, what came to my mind from a

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scientific standpoint is that what's really happening
is that people are getting rid of that

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ego. People are getting into out
of that unconsciousness that we all live with

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every day, and they're getting into
a consciousness because you're eliminating at that moment

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that that awareness, you know,
and all of that type of stuff that

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normally happens where we're writing our story, where we have all those memories,

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where we have all those emotions,
and all of a sudden, in my

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mind, you're helping them get to
that point through the psychedelic aspect to where,

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for instance, you know, Totally
was talking about doing that. In

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fact, I'm listening to the book
because I do it on autible. As

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I'm listening to that, I'm going, all right, you know, I

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love the theory, I love everything
you're talking about, but guess what you're

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not really talking about. How does
an individual step by step accomplish that to

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some degree. And so as you've
been talking about these things, what comes

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to my mind is literally what you
were doing with the psychedelics is helping people

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to reach that type of state in
a way that they can start to eliminate

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some of those past memories, some
of those past emotions. And particularly what

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I love is, as you say
afterwards, then you get into while they're

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conscious, you're actually talking about how
can they then incorporate that into their lives.

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What are your thoughts? I really
I love all this this, These

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are all the things I love to
talk about. So I'll talk a little

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bit about trauma because I really think
that's where we have to start. So

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to start so young, all of
us, you know, the world is

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hard work. This world is hard, and there's challenges, and there's hardships,

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and and we're we're all traumatized.
We're all traumatized in some some way

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people who suffer real severe kinds of
traumas starting in childhood. A lot of

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this is abuse. It's sexual abuse. There's a lot of sexual abuse out

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there. It's physical, emotional abuse, psychological abuse, it's neglect. Neglect

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is horrendously harmful on a developing child's
brain. People say neglect is actually worse

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than abuse on the on what it
actually does interesting, so different ways that

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you can talk about this. You
know, I'll bring us to adulthood.

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So you're a little for your old
person who is getting sexually abused by a

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family member. This is a very
common thing I see in high trauma.

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Yes, so you dissociate typically when
you feel trapped. So your your body

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goes through some different things. First
you have fight flight. Now, fight

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flight pumps blood to your limbs and
raises your heart rate and does the things

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for you to actually move. That's
what it's for. If you're a small

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child and eat in your mind or
physically actually physically, you are trapped in

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a place where something is being done
to you that is abusive and harmful.

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Fight flight. When that doesn't work
because you are trapped, you downregulate.

359
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This is out of something called polyvagel
theory by Stephen Porges. You downregulate and

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you go to what's called mobilization.
You shut down. Animals actually do this

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in the wild. This is what
playing dead is. Like a possum playing

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dead, their body literally goes into
this immobilization state because they're about to die

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and their last line of defense is
to play dead. So the ways this

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seems to manifest in people is we
dissociate, We go somewhere else in our

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minds, We shut off our mind
from our body. And there's different there's

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different models that can explain kind of
what this means. One model it comes

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out of something called internal family systems. I actually really like this model of

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therapy because I think it resonates well
with how to deal with trauma. They

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call it kind of, you know, a piece of you, a piece

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of your personality, a piece of
your psyche, of your piece of your

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personhood at that time goes into hiding, kind of gets lodged away somewhere in

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the subconscious. And so this little
person that's been abused grows up to become,

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you know, a twenty two year
old woman, let's say, and

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has a bunch of intimacy issues,
has fear of men, or you know,

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if it was a male abuse,
or or has you know, has

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all this stuff and can't have a
good relationship. It doesn't do well in

377
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relationships. Now that little four year
old isn't hiding, That little four year

378
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old needs to be rescued. Actually, that little four year old needs to

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be found, healed, and integrated
back into the self. So if I

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use another model, if I use
like a spiritual shamanic model, the soul,

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that the soul splits away at that
point, so same thing that's still

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going to affect you when you grow
up. You don't know that this is

383
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over here because you're that's in the
subconscious that you don't have awareness of.

384
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And so you can have that soul
be returned and integrated back into your personhood,

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into your now soul. And so
the thing that I think, and

386
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it doesn't have to be psychedelics,
altered states of consciousness allow you access to

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what's out here because of what it's
doing in your mind and brain, and

388
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so you suddenly you're like, oh
my gosh, you know, I found

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I found my little girl, I
found I found that little person. Prayer,

390
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you know, contemplative prayer, breathwork, holotropic breath work, intense deep

391
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meditations, trance, all those things
actually take you to altered states. Dreaming

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is an altered state of consciousness.
Psychedelics take you there real fast and in

393
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a space with a person, a
guide who then might be able to talk

394
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you through. You know, let's
say you meet that four year old.

395
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I mean, these are things that
happen in your journeys. You know,

396
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you have a trained therapist guide whoever
that can say, oh, you know,

397
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do you see her? Can you
imagine her? Can you imagine that

398
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little girl? What does she look
like? Describe her to me? And

399
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this is when people will just start
crying. They'll just start sobbing because they

400
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haven't interacted and connected with this part
of themselves for so long. So you

401
00:32:12.240 --> 00:32:16.400
have those kind of things that get
kind of drudged up in your journeys.

402
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And then afterwards, again that integration
part, you say to the person,

403
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Okay, this is what happened.
You know, I'm a person I take

404
00:32:25.119 --> 00:32:30.400
very careful notes. I go through
every moment I can have recorded and can

405
00:32:30.480 --> 00:32:34.880
remember. I want to talk to
the person the next day, within a

406
00:32:35.000 --> 00:32:39.400
day after so we can download all
that information together and then we go,

407
00:32:39.519 --> 00:32:45.440
Okay, here's how you continue to
connect to that four year old. You

408
00:32:45.480 --> 00:32:49.359
know, I did this myself.
I'll share a little personal story and I

409
00:32:49.400 --> 00:32:53.000
actually didn't do this with plant medicine. I did this with my therapist here

410
00:32:53.000 --> 00:33:00.200
in Utah who was trained in art
therapy and drama therapy, and she she

411
00:33:00.559 --> 00:33:04.559
was an energy worker, so she
was kind of a little bit on the

412
00:33:04.559 --> 00:33:07.039
fringes, right, still a license
therapist, but a little bit on the

413
00:33:07.039 --> 00:33:09.880
fringes. And she talked to me
through she had me do a role play,

414
00:33:10.200 --> 00:33:17.119
a guided imagery role play where I
reunited with other selves of mine that

415
00:33:17.160 --> 00:33:22.359
had I had sort of gone into
hiding for my own trauma, and I

416
00:33:22.440 --> 00:33:25.480
reconnected with them and I had a
little post it. I kept it in

417
00:33:25.519 --> 00:33:29.119
a book I read every single day
that said, have you checked in with

418
00:33:29.160 --> 00:33:34.119
your six year old? So it's
there's a lot of really creative ways that

419
00:33:34.160 --> 00:33:38.599
you can take what happens and integrate
it. You know. It's some people

420
00:33:38.640 --> 00:33:42.920
are like, well, you just
seem like you're talking to yourself. Yeah,

421
00:33:43.119 --> 00:33:45.240
I am. That's okay, That's
that's what I'm doing in that case,

422
00:33:45.319 --> 00:33:50.400
I'm talking to myself. So,
you know, the positive language,

423
00:33:50.720 --> 00:33:53.319
positive messaging, like the rewriting.
I talk with my clients. I talk

424
00:33:53.359 --> 00:34:00.359
a lot about we have to overwrite
that default programming that that trauma did to

425
00:34:00.400 --> 00:34:02.119
you, that told you you're unworthy, that told you you're a burden,

426
00:34:02.160 --> 00:34:06.240
that told you you're not you know, you're you're not worth living or you

427
00:34:06.240 --> 00:34:12.239
don't deserve good things that those are
bad programming, Like that's bad program those

428
00:34:12.239 --> 00:34:19.320
are bad messages. So part of
integration is repetition of good messaging, talking

429
00:34:19.320 --> 00:34:22.440
to yourself in healthy ways and doing
your self care. That's different for everybody.

430
00:34:22.440 --> 00:34:27.280
For me, it's doing chiegong every
day. It's meditating a few times

431
00:34:27.280 --> 00:34:29.280
a week, it's doing yoga a
few times a week like that. Those

432
00:34:29.320 --> 00:34:31.280
are parts of my you know,
eating a healthy diettata, all the things.

433
00:34:31.320 --> 00:34:35.599
I mean when I when I start
working with people who are really severely

434
00:34:35.599 --> 00:34:37.800
traumatized, we are like one thing
at a time, We'll just folk you

435
00:34:37.840 --> 00:34:42.239
will focus maybe on one thing at
a time and work up from there.

436
00:34:43.440 --> 00:34:46.519
But it's all of that. It's
all of that, the pre, the

437
00:34:46.679 --> 00:34:52.239
during, the after. It is
for me, it's all part of the

438
00:34:52.239 --> 00:34:55.519
healing process. And if any bits
of those are missing and you're gonna you're

439
00:34:55.519 --> 00:34:59.400
gonna be less effective basically, right, if you get if you go have

440
00:34:59.480 --> 00:35:05.199
a journey, if you go do
ten yahuasca ceremonies in Peru and have no

441
00:35:05.280 --> 00:35:09.280
integration and no practices you change in
your life afterwards, you're probably going to

442
00:35:09.559 --> 00:35:15.760
end up back where you were I
mean that's yeah, yeah, and okay.

443
00:35:15.920 --> 00:35:19.199
Chigong, I don't even know what
that is, and a lot of

444
00:35:19.199 --> 00:35:23.239
people don't know what that is.
Explained to the audage, what that is

445
00:35:23.239 --> 00:35:29.639
is out of traditional Chinese medicine,
and most people have heard of tai chi,

446
00:35:30.400 --> 00:35:35.280
so she ei chi chi and chikong
chigong spelled a little usually differently,

447
00:35:35.320 --> 00:35:39.679
I mean in English or whatever.
She is energy she is, you know,

448
00:35:40.400 --> 00:35:45.480
is the energy flowing through your body. Essentially, our bodies are running

449
00:35:45.639 --> 00:35:50.480
off of electro chemical impulses that go
from our central nervous system toward back and

450
00:35:50.559 --> 00:35:52.920
forth back. You know, we
have electricity. This is this is life.

451
00:35:52.960 --> 00:35:59.000
It's all running through bodies. So
let's call it energy. Chikong is

452
00:36:00.599 --> 00:36:04.280
thousand plus five thousand year old practice. I don't know how old. It's

453
00:36:04.480 --> 00:36:14.599
very very old. That operates off
the traditional Chinese medicine's model of the body's

454
00:36:14.719 --> 00:36:21.000
energy systems and how they work.
So chiegong involves evolves certain kinds of movement,

455
00:36:21.519 --> 00:36:24.719
so it involves touching parts of your
scalp, maybe your ears. So

456
00:36:24.760 --> 00:36:30.079
if anybody's people who know what acupuncture
is, usually right, acupuncture the same

457
00:36:30.440 --> 00:36:36.000
energy system traditional Chinese medicine. So
a lot of times when you get acupuncture,

458
00:36:36.039 --> 00:36:38.400
you will get it in your ears
because there's a bunch of energy points

459
00:36:38.400 --> 00:36:44.920
in your ears, because the energy
flow aligns from here down into your stomach

460
00:36:45.000 --> 00:36:47.639
or your liver or your organs,
your different body parts. So it's it's

461
00:36:47.679 --> 00:36:52.280
all a solely different kind of system. You might there's some pressure points and

462
00:36:52.360 --> 00:36:58.880
hitting your body. You'll see people
if you you're you're in Highland. I

463
00:36:58.920 --> 00:37:00.440
wonder if you if you see this
in Thailand. I lived in Singapore for

464
00:37:00.440 --> 00:37:05.440
a little while. There would be
Asian folks in the park slapping their arms

465
00:37:05.480 --> 00:37:08.599
against their body and bringing their arms
around, and you know they're typically older

466
00:37:08.599 --> 00:37:13.559
people. It's kind of like this
funny thing. I'm head of that direction.

467
00:37:13.760 --> 00:37:19.280
I'm headed right there. It's patting
your body, it's hitting, moving

468
00:37:19.800 --> 00:37:25.800
and kind of putting pressure on different
energy points throughout your body to basically remove

469
00:37:25.840 --> 00:37:29.800
blockages. So what I mean by
that is like your energy kind of can

470
00:37:29.880 --> 00:37:32.719
get stagnant. When you go to
a Chinese medicine doctor, they talk about

471
00:37:32.760 --> 00:37:37.480
like like your energy is stagnant,
like it's not flowing. So you can

472
00:37:37.519 --> 00:37:43.199
do these actual external pressure things and
movements to have the energy flowing better.

473
00:37:43.599 --> 00:37:50.480
When the energy system of your body
is flowing efficiently and effectively, it allows

474
00:37:50.519 --> 00:37:53.920
your body to heal itself better.
We are all healing ourselves all the time.

475
00:37:53.920 --> 00:37:59.880
Our body's regenerating when you are under
high stress, when your body hasn't

476
00:37:59.880 --> 00:38:04.480
been moving when you are you know
again, it's it's, it's, it's.

477
00:38:04.559 --> 00:38:07.800
I think stagnation is just the best
word I can think of it.

478
00:38:07.519 --> 00:38:14.519
You feel sick and tired. You
don't actually physically heal as quickly. Mental

479
00:38:14.559 --> 00:38:21.880
health stuff is harder. So Chiegong
is a practice of energy movement for yourself,

480
00:38:22.519 --> 00:38:29.280
for you to make the energy in
your own body flow better so that

481
00:38:29.360 --> 00:38:31.239
your body can just do what it's
supposed to do, which is heal.

482
00:38:31.920 --> 00:38:35.480
Oh and I love that, you
know what I love though. One of

483
00:38:35.480 --> 00:38:39.679
the things that you said that I
think is so important is this concept of

484
00:38:39.760 --> 00:38:44.239
integration, because you're right. So
often, you know, we go through

485
00:38:44.280 --> 00:38:47.880
this whole process, whether it's with
a therapist or whatever, of discovering what

486
00:38:49.000 --> 00:38:53.320
those inner stories are and so forth, and then that's it. You walk

487
00:38:53.360 --> 00:39:01.920
away and it never goes away because
you've never learned consciously and mindset why to

488
00:39:01.920 --> 00:39:07.719
integrate those things into our lives.
What what I find fascinating And I've heard

489
00:39:07.760 --> 00:39:10.440
it said in a few different ways, and the way that you've said it,

490
00:39:10.480 --> 00:39:14.639
you know, as we become aware
of that little child, for instance,

491
00:39:14.639 --> 00:39:17.719
with the trauma situation, as we
become aware of that little child,

492
00:39:19.199 --> 00:39:22.280
and as I've learned a little bit
more about meditation, is like, as

493
00:39:22.320 --> 00:39:30.280
you become more aware, more conscious
of those things, somehow the effects of

494
00:39:30.320 --> 00:39:36.719
that trauma goes away and you don't
experience that anymore. And one of the

495
00:39:36.760 --> 00:39:39.400
things that you're saying is as you
are, you know, as you're becoming

496
00:39:39.440 --> 00:39:45.320
more aware of that, you have
to add to that some type of integrative

497
00:39:45.400 --> 00:39:50.400
practice in order for it to remain
away. Could could you just very briefly

498
00:39:50.840 --> 00:39:55.719
explain what you mean by that?
Yeah, lots lots of good stuff there.

499
00:39:58.119 --> 00:40:05.280
So it's one of the ways that
I understand healing is when you can

500
00:40:05.400 --> 00:40:13.599
take a trauma and start to weave
it into your current story. That's really

501
00:40:13.639 --> 00:40:16.039
really scary to start out, and
a lot of people when they start talking

502
00:40:16.039 --> 00:40:20.599
about it, they'll hit fight flight
and then they shut down. And so

503
00:40:21.639 --> 00:40:27.599
there's that aspect where once you can
have the conscious awareness of what's there,

504
00:40:28.079 --> 00:40:30.639
that's a big step to get to
for a lot of people, because a

505
00:40:30.679 --> 00:40:36.159
lot of people have repressed memories.
They for a long time. Stuff starts

506
00:40:36.199 --> 00:40:38.480
to creep up and it's like,
oh my god, nope, nope,

507
00:40:38.880 --> 00:40:42.679
there's a lot of denial. This
is just part of the whole process,

508
00:40:42.960 --> 00:40:45.599
you know, when you're kind of
working with people in this way. So

509
00:40:46.280 --> 00:40:50.159
the awareness, you know, you
can't do anything with it if you don't

510
00:40:50.159 --> 00:40:52.480
know about it, right, So
the awareness has to come. It gets

511
00:40:52.480 --> 00:40:55.599
there. It's hard, it's difficult, and that's part of the reason I

512
00:40:55.639 --> 00:40:59.239
think of having that. You know, you need a safe person. You

513
00:40:59.280 --> 00:41:01.960
need hopefully safe person that is in
your family, that maybe lives with you

514
00:41:02.000 --> 00:41:07.400
as close to you that can be
a support for you during a healing time.

515
00:41:07.440 --> 00:41:10.599
I tell a lot of my clients
like, you're on your healing vacation,

516
00:41:12.000 --> 00:41:14.840
just don't you know, don't try
to do too much, don't put

517
00:41:14.880 --> 00:41:17.800
too much on yourself, because this
is actually really hard work. And integration,

518
00:41:19.519 --> 00:41:22.559
sorry to tell folks, is hard
work. Everybody that comes to me

519
00:41:22.599 --> 00:41:25.639
and I'm like, you're going to
work really hard, and this is going

520
00:41:25.719 --> 00:41:30.880
to be super hard. FYI.
When you actually really want to address your

521
00:41:30.880 --> 00:41:35.079
trauma. It's going to hurt and
it's going to be hard, but you're

522
00:41:35.079 --> 00:41:37.760
going to do it with a person. You're not going to do this alone.

523
00:41:37.800 --> 00:41:45.159
And so so I think, yeah, people have to have I mean,

524
00:41:45.199 --> 00:41:47.960
people are desperate a lot of time
when people want to quick fix because

525
00:41:47.960 --> 00:41:51.800
they've been dealing with their stuff for
so long, you know. Sometimes I

526
00:41:51.840 --> 00:41:54.719
mean you just like and the reality
is you have to work. You have

527
00:41:54.800 --> 00:41:59.400
to work for this, so you
have to actually do the meditation right,

528
00:41:59.440 --> 00:42:02.559
You actually have to do it every
day. And I'll work with people to

529
00:42:02.559 --> 00:42:07.199
say, you know what, put
it on your calendar. Let it be

530
00:42:07.239 --> 00:42:10.679
an alarm on your phone that reminds
you, oh, I have to practice

531
00:42:10.719 --> 00:42:15.639
this every day. Because when you
practice it every day or regularly in some

532
00:42:15.760 --> 00:42:22.119
way, that's what creates the new
brain connections that will stick. Repetition of

533
00:42:22.159 --> 00:42:27.199
these experiences is going to be all
habits and things stick. So, just

534
00:42:27.199 --> 00:42:29.559
like what you're saying, you go
to the therapy office and you learn all

535
00:42:29.599 --> 00:42:31.360
these great things, but then you
don't go home and do any of it.

536
00:42:31.360 --> 00:42:34.880
It's going to just start to fade
away. You know, maybe you

537
00:42:34.920 --> 00:42:37.639
come back the next week or in
two weeks, but you really have to

538
00:42:38.920 --> 00:42:43.519
take that on and do whatever.
A little bit I tell people, you

539
00:42:43.559 --> 00:42:47.119
know, it is overwhelmed, especially
when you're decrest and anxious in all these

540
00:42:47.119 --> 00:42:52.920
things. One thing, you know, walk Just walk for five minutes a

541
00:42:52.000 --> 00:42:55.559
day. That's it. Walk for
five minutes a day and look at your

542
00:42:55.599 --> 00:43:01.559
surroundings. That's all. Notice the
colors, notice the breeze, notice the

543
00:43:01.599 --> 00:43:08.280
temperature. It is a lot of
it's training for helping them train themselves to

544
00:43:08.400 --> 00:43:13.159
be in the present moment, to
be mindful. Yes, yes, and

545
00:43:14.079 --> 00:43:19.400
so be mindful or be conscious or
whatever that happens to be. So,

546
00:43:20.199 --> 00:43:23.840
as we're getting near the end of
one of the things that I want to

547
00:43:23.920 --> 00:43:29.400
ask, and this comes to my
mind. You know, at least my

548
00:43:29.559 --> 00:43:32.400
experience has been there's so much that
it's like, all right, I'm going

549
00:43:32.480 --> 00:43:36.519
to overcome this. I'm going to
overcome this. Okay, done, done,

550
00:43:36.719 --> 00:43:42.119
and then go back to regular life. And my question for you is

551
00:43:42.119 --> 00:43:50.920
is this a eternal experience to where
once you are starting to experience that freedom

552
00:43:51.400 --> 00:43:55.039
from those traumas, that freedom from
those limiting beliefs, the freedom from whatever

553
00:43:55.159 --> 00:44:00.840
messages you got as a child or
whatever, is it done or is it

554
00:44:00.199 --> 00:44:07.920
really wise to continue the meditation to
continue that integration, because that's what helps

555
00:44:07.000 --> 00:44:13.719
to maintain that sense of freedom and
piece as you say, yeah, one

556
00:44:13.800 --> 00:44:19.000
hundred percent. And the thing that
I that I that I usually will say

557
00:44:19.039 --> 00:44:22.280
to people is like because they're like, Okay, I'm gonna done it,

558
00:44:22.320 --> 00:44:23.440
work really hard, and then I'm
going to be done and I'm going to

559
00:44:23.519 --> 00:44:27.519
go back to normal. And then
I'm like, no, then you're going

560
00:44:27.599 --> 00:44:31.119
to be done and step into your
new life. Then you're going to be

561
00:44:31.159 --> 00:44:35.800
done, and you're going to step
into your new way that you are.

562
00:44:36.360 --> 00:44:39.000
And I bet you you're going to
keep up your practices because you're going to

563
00:44:39.079 --> 00:44:43.679
have felt how much they've helped you. That is just a little bit what

564
00:44:43.760 --> 00:44:46.760
happened to me personally. I actually
so my story I tell about meditation.

565
00:44:47.440 --> 00:44:52.440
I did it on autopilot robot for
four months every single day. I don't

566
00:44:52.440 --> 00:44:57.639
know what in me had this diligence
at least to do that every day.

567
00:44:57.880 --> 00:45:00.639
But I did a Zazen meditation that
I learned out of a book, which

568
00:45:00.679 --> 00:45:04.960
is just a sitting meditation. It
just happened to be. I was working

569
00:45:04.960 --> 00:45:09.719
through a book on you know,
mindfulness and a workbook on acceptance. Commitment

570
00:45:09.800 --> 00:45:15.239
therapy, and I learned this strategy
out of there and I tried to do

571
00:45:15.280 --> 00:45:19.159
it and I started, and I
was like, I'm terrible at this.

572
00:45:19.440 --> 00:45:21.480
I can't get rid of my thoughts. I can't do anything, you know.

573
00:45:21.559 --> 00:45:23.280
I was just and I just I
just did it. I just sat

574
00:45:23.320 --> 00:45:25.519
there and I did it, and
I did it for fifteen minutes a day.

575
00:45:25.519 --> 00:45:29.679
I would set a timer and I
make myself sit there. And then

576
00:45:29.760 --> 00:45:31.760
all of a sudden, four months, four months, I did this every

577
00:45:31.840 --> 00:45:37.400
day and felt nothing like it wasn't
working. I was also severely depressed,

578
00:45:37.400 --> 00:45:42.960
suicidal, seeing therapists and bouncing around
on Western meds. Four months hit and

579
00:45:43.000 --> 00:45:45.239
I was like I woke up with
dan. I was like, I need

580
00:45:45.280 --> 00:45:51.679
to meditate. I was like,
oh, I finally sunk in, Like

581
00:45:51.719 --> 00:45:54.280
I had done it enough that it
finally created the habit for me. I'm

582
00:45:54.320 --> 00:45:59.320
like, oh, this is helpful. I feel the helpfulness of it now

583
00:45:59.679 --> 00:46:04.559
now. Other things like if you
start doing a little bit of exercise every

584
00:46:04.639 --> 00:46:08.960
day, you'll notice the day you
skip it. That's what happens to me

585
00:46:09.000 --> 00:46:13.280
now with Chiegong. So with Cheegong, I used to do yoga every day.

586
00:46:13.280 --> 00:46:15.760
I kind of shifted into cheekong.
I know a couple of different forms

587
00:46:15.760 --> 00:46:19.519
of it now that I really like. If I'm in a hurry, if

588
00:46:19.519 --> 00:46:21.639
I wake up and I'm like,
Okay, I'm gonna do my cheekong later,

589
00:46:21.800 --> 00:46:27.039
I feel it. I feel that. So I think when you start

590
00:46:27.039 --> 00:46:30.000
healthy practices, it's not to kind
of like get over your thing and be

591
00:46:30.079 --> 00:46:34.480
done. I think it's to live
because they're going to feel good to you

592
00:46:34.559 --> 00:46:38.559
and you're going to want to do
them going forward. So I love that,

593
00:46:38.800 --> 00:46:45.079
And that's a great conclusion to our
conversation today, Rachel, this has

594
00:46:45.119 --> 00:46:51.599
been fascinating. I'm just fascinated by
what you're doing, your own journey and

595
00:46:52.400 --> 00:46:55.599
the thoughts that you have, and
particularly even from you know, we can

596
00:46:55.639 --> 00:47:00.280
call a scientific aspect, but the
reality is helping people understand that, you

597
00:47:00.320 --> 00:47:02.639
know what, you can't just go
and get it done and then you're over

598
00:47:02.760 --> 00:47:07.400
with it. That this becomes a
new life, a new experience, and

599
00:47:07.679 --> 00:47:13.079
if that's what you want, then
it takes that energy and that desire and

600
00:47:13.119 --> 00:47:19.400
that willingness to actually create that new
life for yourself. How do people find

601
00:47:19.480 --> 00:47:23.360
you? Because the clinic is closed, so how do people find you if

602
00:47:23.400 --> 00:47:30.760
they need some help. Yeah,
I mean I am happy to you know,

603
00:47:31.119 --> 00:47:37.280
share info. I have a I
have an email address I use for

604
00:47:37.360 --> 00:47:43.679
business which is just Rachel dot Lam
dot PhD at gmail dot com that people

605
00:47:43.719 --> 00:47:47.239
can get to me through that through
LinkedIn, through my weaber email that I'm

606
00:47:47.280 --> 00:47:52.480
just sort of it's it's there's a
lot of in the community word of mouth

607
00:47:52.519 --> 00:47:57.719
that gets passed around and things like
that. But no, I'm happy to

608
00:47:57.880 --> 00:48:01.079
share that info on here. And
then I have a business number that I

609
00:48:01.159 --> 00:48:04.559
use as well that do you want
me to share it on here? I'm

610
00:48:04.559 --> 00:48:08.000
happy to share it on here.
Now you don't need to share it on

611
00:48:08.039 --> 00:48:12.079
here. I was gonna look at
I have to look it up. I

612
00:48:12.119 --> 00:48:17.119
don't have a memorized but yeah,
right now I am in some different mixes

613
00:48:17.199 --> 00:48:21.760
of some new things coming up,
So I'm trying to see which direction to

614
00:48:21.880 --> 00:48:27.679
go. I don't know if I
want to put my foot a little bit

615
00:48:27.679 --> 00:48:32.280
deeper in the university and maybe see
about doing some research on the psychological end

616
00:48:32.400 --> 00:48:38.079
of this healing work, or go
back. I have some potential opportunities to

617
00:48:38.159 --> 00:48:43.159
go work with ketamine again and that
I'm looking at right now, and and

618
00:48:43.239 --> 00:48:50.719
also just continuing I'm in my own
training for learning different techniques in indigenous practices

619
00:48:50.760 --> 00:48:58.199
with plant medicine, and so I'm
keeping myself kind of open to what's next

620
00:48:58.239 --> 00:49:00.559
and part of my own journey.
But yeah, people can just email me

621
00:49:00.800 --> 00:49:07.760
or look me up and and find
me. Saw me. They'll find They'll

622
00:49:07.800 --> 00:49:12.480
find you on the internet. R
A C H E. L L A

623
00:49:12.679 --> 00:49:15.519
M. And if they google that, they're going to find you, Rachel.

624
00:49:15.599 --> 00:49:19.880
This has been wonderful and and thank
you. You know, what I

625
00:49:20.000 --> 00:49:28.079
find so fascinating is how certain individuals
experience things in their lives and it becomes

626
00:49:28.119 --> 00:49:31.239
a motivator. And you know,
even though they've gone in a certain direction

627
00:49:31.360 --> 00:49:36.239
here you get your pH d and
research and so forth, and it has

628
00:49:36.360 --> 00:49:43.159
certainly aided you in being able to
develop into the situation that you're in now.

629
00:49:43.719 --> 00:49:47.880
But what a wonderful blessing to have
individuals such as yourself that are willing

630
00:49:47.960 --> 00:49:53.360
to do that and spend the effort
and the time and then give back and

631
00:49:53.480 --> 00:49:57.559
do what it takes to help other
people to live a better life, a

632
00:49:57.599 --> 00:50:00.840
happier life, and to overcome some
of those traumas in their lives. And

633
00:50:00.920 --> 00:50:07.000
experiencing that piece I love it,
so thank you, Thank you for saying

634
00:50:07.039 --> 00:50:08.519
that. I take that, I
receive that, I take that to heart.

635
00:50:08.559 --> 00:50:12.400
Thank you so much. Happy to
be on here and just spread the

636
00:50:12.400 --> 00:50:15.559
word. Well, I appreciate it. Folks. I hope this has been

637
00:50:15.599 --> 00:50:21.239
fascinating for you, and please,
please please look at this very carefully,

638
00:50:21.360 --> 00:50:24.679
very cautiously, and yet look at
it and see if this type of approach

639
00:50:25.199 --> 00:50:30.719
can be of value to you,
particularly if other approaches have not been of

640
00:50:30.840 --> 00:50:34.119
value. So anyway, thanks for
joining us, or look forward to having

641
00:50:34.159 --> 00:50:35.199
you join us again soon