Helping Your Pre-Teens Navigate Their Lives

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0:44 Denzel Washington, welcome to Inspire Vision. Our sole purpose is to elevate the lives of others and to inspire you to do the same. Marcus, we're welcome to the show. It's great to be here. Doctor Doug that's okay, yeah, yeah, or Dog that's fright. Yeah. It's just fascinating to me the backgrounds of how people kind of reach the point that they are in their lives and what they're doing, and obviously you're doing something extremely significant. I'd love for you to share with the audience a little bit about who you are and help them to understand who you are a little bit of your background. Okay, Okay, I'll talk about what I do, and then I'll talk about how I got here.

1:26 Okay. I work with certain future and I support parents of preteens. So I support the parents of the preteens ten to fourteen years old so they can show up and maintain a meaningful relationship with their child during their first identity breaking I call it. And we can talk about what identity breaking is later, right, right. And I work with the parents so that these are parents who know the value of doing hard work. And when I say that, we were all adolescents, yeah, and we know those formative years. But when you're present with your son or daughter through those years, you can lay the foundation that will pay later on in life. So I use a framework called the show up framework, and it's so that they can be confident in the communication and they can know how to be present when their child starts to withdraw and how to support their child so they can develop a strong resilience and self belief.

2:23 So how on earth did you get on this. Path, oh man? Several different origin stories actually, and I'll just. No, please, sure, I'm sure, I'm interested. Are you familiar with the termed third culture kid? No? Okay, so a third culture kid is usually they're different definitions, but usually their passport doesn't match the country they grew up with or their parents' identity culture. Let's say, so, my mom's from the Philippines, my dad's from the Bahamas. That's why I live in the Bahamas. And I was born in California. I lived here til I was twelve, and then I moved to the Bahamas. Studied communication in Alabama, journalism straightway, went to South Korea to be a missionary English teacher. Stopped being a missionary, no animosity towards a church or anything, but world views change. And then but loved teaching and I continue teaching. Got my training inside Thailand, went and taught at a petrol company in Saudi Arabia.

3:30 Came back to Thailand further than my education. Then went to Spain, then did seven years inside Thailand, taught international schools. English language arts is what I taught. And then now I'm back in the Bahamas with my aging parents, and I taught. I taught English, and I remember coming out of English class one time and I told my chairperson and said, you know what, this feels a lot like therapy, And he said, Marcus, that's why it's called the humanities. We're teaching them how to be human. And I love communication. I love words. Our words create our world. And in human development, it's at least during the transition years, that's adolescents, when we're entering adolescents, when we're entering young adulthood, in our golden years and so on. But it's during those formative years that we are asked, you know, who are you, and that we really get to form our identity. And I've worked with teenagers and pre teens. This is a book from my fifth graders. Can't see it on screen, all that's okay, that's all right. My fifth and sixth graders.

4:38 Is the Good Vibe book that they gave me. And there are a lot of pictures of just stick men with afros. I'll shure you're here, just wonderful. I do it for them, also, okay, cool, Just you know, I'm going to be doing this for the rest of I say, rest of my life. But I'm going to serve parents because also it's my own upbringing with my father, a father who really cared an A type personality, and in retrospect there's wisdoms say how he showed up for me, and there's gratitude behind it. But then him being the adult in the room, like growing up, always knew like dude, oh that's not how you do it. But the people who know our insecurities versus ourselves and the ones who know what best are kids, right. But those are just several different ways of how I found myself here. I feel uniquely called to this and that's the origin story, and I have a vision going forward to Yeah.

5:38 Oh that's fantastic. You know I have I have four children, so yeah, I've got four kids, and you know, it's it's interesting as you look at as you say the pre teenage years, which what age would you put that in for preteens for the audience, well, age ten eight, ten to fourteen, ten to fourteen. And the reason I say that because people develop at different stages of life. Everybody's different in the development and now with social media, people are actually developing a bit faster. But I'd say ten to fourteen. Yeah, okay, okay, So here's a question I have for you because as I've done some studies. I have seen that, you know, between the ages of birth and about eight to ten, personalities are created. And many times, you know, as the research shows, much of the time, those personalities are created by the imprints of the parents, of the religion, of the society, of the school, of the teachers, of the friends, and all of that. So they get to be age eight to ten and you're, you know, you're trying to deal with them in a certain manner, and they have an entirely different perception of what's going on.

6:55 And sometimes as adults we don't understand that. The other challenges is a lot of times their reaction to what we would consider just a normal communication, they have a huge emotional reaction and it has nothing to do with that time of moment. It has everything to do with some subconscious imprint that brought up an emotion that now they're going to fight back. What are your thoughts on that, Marcus? I would say, you're a very intuitive parent, and I'll give some You gave a nice skeleton, and I'll add some details to help make sense. Yeah, yeah, yeah, So let's think about it zero to let's say eight and ten. Huh, the world is black and white for them, and that it's your worldview. They're believing everything that you say and you're telling them adolescence is actually it's a natural part of life where they're going to start forming their own identity and what happens and you noticed this, that's actually skepticism starts to seep in as they start to understand their other perspectives in the world. Oftentimes nowadays it's coming through media, but used to come through adults inside other trustworthy adults inside our communities. They're peers, and as they interact with other people that aren't their family group, they start to say, oh, no, people look at life differently than my parents do. And they haven't learned nuanced yet, which comes later on in Life eighteen about But while

8:28 they're they're they're not They're not sure everything you're telling them is the truth? Right? And I say it in ice wool on a wall of ice forms and it's ice. These are the challenges of preteens or when when they're breaking away into adolescents. I is identity breaking? Who am I? Right? I used to be mom or Dad's like loving son or daughter? And what maternal energy does it holds you closer says, I love you, You're cared for your secure, you're safe, you're seeing. What paternal energy does is it pushes a child away, and it says, I love you, you're safe, you're secure, you're seeing, you can come back. But I need you to be independent. First, you're dependent.

9:11 Now you're independent. The final form actually of human development is interdependence. As Jim Rohn says, I will take care of me to be in service to you if you promise to take care of you to be in service to me. Yes, that's the final form. But now they need to practice independence of figuring out who you are. And that tension creates a whole realistic human being that push and pull, But it's that breaking away of which they're trying to navigate and trying to figure out their role, their identity. The second thing is collaborative mistrusts. They don't know who to work with, who's on their team now, and they think they're the problem. The third thing, and you touched on it, is emotional mismanagement. Emotions tell us one our subjective well being, how we're moving towards a goal in our lives, and how we're navigating this. This is their first time to the rodeo, so they don't know how to manage it yet. And in order to melt this wall of ice, it's like Angela Duckwood says.

10:15 Duckworth said, from grit, every kid needs one psychological wise adult inside their life will show up. And that's where I came up with the framework show up framework. But to answer your question, that is that is where all this pre teen dysregulation comes from. Well, and it becomes a real challenge. You know, you talk about your dad had I think an a personality. You know, if you get into the behavioral analyzes, you've got the disc test, the D I, s C and so forth. You know, I look at A as a D and you know, for me, I'm I'm a high D high D. And if you're familiar with those at all, but it just means that I have strong opinions and I'm willing to speak them out whatever. I don't care who if they asked for it or not. And I had to learn with my kids very on, and we were fortunate that we had some good communication, but I had to learn very on, very early on that because of my personality, I had to say, all right, kids, do you want me to listen or do you want my opinion? And that was you know, everybody laughs about it now, but the reality is I still have to do that. And you know they're from twenty six to forty so it just gets to be fascinating.

11:32 Are you from Charles Dujig who wrote The Power of Habit Charles Dohig do hig, I'm not no, okay, So he just wrote a new book called super Communicators, and it just reminded me of He says, you know, there are three reasons we enter into purpose we enter into conversation. Either it's information exchange, either it's emotional exchange, or it's just alo was the third one, Oh, just for like social lubrication. That's when we're talking about the weather. And oftentimes it's because we're not aware of the purpose of the conversation, where like you'll have you of just steamrolling of okay, do you want this opinion or do you want me just to listen? But it's like knowing your role and purpose of the conversation, feeling or reading the room.

12:18 It could save a lot of heartache. Let's say, yeah, oh exactly. And you know, I think one of the challenges and I'll be curious whether you use this or not. One of the challenges is to really, you know, we all have as adults, we have a purpose and you know, some people have it, some don't. But we also have specific values, whether or not we're aware of them. They definitely do because our behavior and you know run that to a large degree. And yet with our children, we assume that they have the same values, the same motivators, the same you know, personality type and so forth. And the reality is is that they are so different. I you know, I don't do you ever do any behavioral analyses as you start to work with the parents with their kids.

13:07 So a lot of my work comes from positive psychology. So we're doing via virtues and action because we're starting off with the identity of the child. Yes, and so we're differnt. So everything that I do stems from virtues and values and those actually means something specific virtues. Are you familiar with the virtues and action? Oh? Please please explain to the audience. Well, I was, uh, I can't explain when I explained that. But you were making a point before it went off. I'm like, let's I'll let you finish your point. Welcome. I think my point and like I say, years ago I got into this behavioral analysis type of thing where and the one that I use now, which I've found a few years ago, not only gets into the personality you know or they are they extroverts, introverts, right brain, left brain combination, so forth, but it also gets into their values. It gets into their motivators. And it's not something that pegs someone because people can change and this can change. But the reality is that helps us to know who we are and who the child is and understand that all of a sudden, Wow, their motivators, their values aren't the same as mine. And when that happens, I think for parents, that becomes an extremely difficult situation to deal with. And then all of a sudden you get all sorts of motivations and emotions and everything else.

14:40 So as you work with your parents, and how do you figure out where the values and those things are for the kids? And you talked about that, so go ahead and explain. Yeah, So, as on the show, framework is start with strong identity, doing virtues and values. Now what virtues and values are? Virtues are twenty four characteristics that are found in all cultures all dates or beliefs. It's from ancient wisdom all the way to modern science. And these are different things like creativity, leadership, gratitude, zest, appreciation of beauty. Now, all of these virtues are with you, yet five of them are expressed most right and depending on contexts. So as those virtues are with you, I encourage people to act in those virtues. And also we do virtue spotting, like we look for it and we find evidence in examples, because what we're trying to do is we're trying to solidify an identity in a person. Those are the virtues, the values very simply what's important to you, And like you were saying, for some parents some things are of value, where for the kid it's not a value.

16:02 Yes, and. M hm, it's it's worth noting when establishing our identity, we have individual identity, it's worth noting. I want to hear your input on this family value to say, you know, sorry, doctor Doug, your last name gol Brandson. That's why I go by That's why I go by doctor Doug. No one can pronounce. It go Brandson. Okay, So if you say the goal Brandson's, people like us do things like this, that's collective identity. I don't know if you did that in your home or not, but you should. You should hear the daughter and laws of my children. You should hear my daughter in laws, the why you know, the spouses of my children. Yeah, oh, that's just the gol Branson's.

16:51 So there was even an identity, even if it wasn't intentionally put on. But yeah, right, people like us, so so we're we we we try to establish a family identity just so that yeah, you're going to break off, but you have a place to come back to or you know, you're going to do a remix. But as long as they have identity here and then trust them to form their own identity as they're leaving, that's what we try to work on. With the virtues and values. Yeah, okay, and you talked about five main virtues that are obvious. What can you can you quote those? Yeah? Well, at least a few of them, A few of them, sure, sure, sure, they're twenty four in total.

17:35 Right when you take the tests, when you take the survey for each individual, there are five that are expressed most and that can be different variations of them. Okay, So for me, mine is gratitude, creativity, fairness, and I keep them on my desktop, yeah, just to be aware of them. Perspective and perseverance. So whenever I'm faced with a challenge or resistance, how might I bring my virtues to meet? How might I meet this with my virtues? That's my thought, right. So, and everybody doesn't have the same virtue. So no, when you said there's five, it's not that they are five that always show up among everyone. It's just that for each individual there are usually about five virtues, whatever they happen to be.

18:27 Yeah, And that's the spice of life, right, it's a different variety, and that's why lends to our collaboration. Yet, hold on, it's worth noting, Doug. How you know it's a virtue is that it's always acting towards either the individual wellbeing or the collective well being. Okay, because there could be a virtue of excess. Just humor is a virtue. But like if you're being funny in a moment where it's not necessary and it's not adding to well being, or if you're too serious so stern and so on and not seeing the virtue of humor. So it's either excess or a deficiency. You're trying to get it inside that mean right in the middle.

19:09 Yes, yes, And you know what I find oftentimes is I work with people, you know, you help them to understand kind of who they are with these you know, assessments. But the fascinating thing is that sometimes you know, sometimes sometimes they know they're not perfect. So you know, I always say, you know, whatever's true for you is going to be true for you. But getting into that virtue and getting into that values and recognizing that that is something that is the true motivator for an individual. How do you help parents to be able to understand those preteens from the standpoint of their virtues and their values.

19:51 Do you do an assessment or do you do something a little bit different. So I used to be a mentor before I became a communication coach and a mentor for preteens. That's actually why I selected this group. And I would always do a via virtues and action survey, and that's just so that I could frame the conversation as such. I feel, I feel when you frame the conversation like that, it's more empowering than oftentimes when doctor Ammon says, our automatic negative thoughts Oftentimes you frame things. It's just like you know what you're lacking or how you're bad or something.

20:34 Once I did bad, hurd it forever twice. I did good hurd it never. But when I'm speaking to you and your virtues and I'm asking you, is this the type of person you want to be, I'm creating space for your for your essence to emerge. And that's the root of the word or etymology of parent and education. It is bringing forth and that's what we have to trust as parents and as educators and caregivers that we can create the context to bring forth the beauty that is already there. Well, when you have a lot of parents and I think we're all really this is s degree. I mean, we have our personal culture, we have what we were brought up with, and obviously we think that's good ideally, and so we want to share that with our children.

21:23 And how do you help parents to get over that resistance of I'm right and you're wrong number one and number two, you're just a child. I know it's best for you. How do you help them to get to the point where they will sit back, be open, be non judgmental, and actually seek out what is that child's virtue. You know, what are the virtues? What are their values? And then how do you help them to help those children to achieve the highest level of those rather than that constant pushback of no, this is how you need to be. I you know, oh boy. First of all, I I I would give another perspective in that that resistance is needed because our true identity is not expressed until it is challenged. And that is said for the parent as well as for the child.

22:28 Yeah, yeah, now that's all right, Sorry about all right? Here we go in communications, we're taught in all relationships there's challenge or there's conflict. Conflict doesn't define the relationship. Rather how we manage the conflict does. Yes, yeah, your kid is going to push back. You may feel you you do have more life experience than your kid, but what you're there, You're not there to be right. What you're there to do is to one create the space for your child to become a whole child, a whole for the role that they're living there, a whole adolescent, and for two for you to understand more about life.

23:21 Whenever we have a funky feeling. And this is just wisdom speaking, but whenever we have a bad feeling anger and be jealousy, I'm wanting to control a frustration. It's never the thing, honestly, it's our relationship with the thing. And oftentimes it's linked back to what am I not willing to accept? That's a that's a tough pill to swallow, and I don't know, I want to hear your thoughts on that. Is that? What what am I willing to accept about myself. About the situation, or what am I not? What am I What am I not willing to accept? Oh? Yeah, and yeah, I mean setting boundaries is I think important. But again, what I see happening. I mean, my experience with my kids was entirely different. I grew up in a family where we were all very independent.

24:15 My dad was My dad worked so hard at the university that you know, we didn't see him very often. He told us we had our jobs to do and so forth, and so we became very independent and my mom was great. But they really taught us the independence. So I did the same thing for my kids, and I told him right off the bat, you know what, you know, when they got to the preteen years and almost ten years, it's like, do you have a curfew. No, but yeah, no, I'm telling this to my kids. Do you have a curfew? And it's like, I'm not going to set a major curfew, but I'd appreciate it if you're home by eleven or by twelve, and if you're going to be later calling me and let me know what's going on. And you know what they right now, they are so independent that it's just fascinating to see how they literally, you know, do their things. That's kind of what the daughters in law I'll say, is you know, you guys are so frigging independent. Well we'll go on a family trip and everybody goes a different way, you know, so there's a family then no I'm going to go to this, I'm gonna go do that. Okay, byey, I see you later tonight and so forth. So I think it becomes it becomes a challenge to be able to get to the point where number one, you become non judgmental.

25:38 I think the judgmental attitude really our kids pick it up as you know, you know, as you talk about communication. Yeah, the words are what fifteen percent, but now you have the tonality and you have the body language, which is even bigger. So I think a lot of times, you know, working with parents, and as we see parents communicating with their kids, they may think they're saying the right words, but in reality, if they have not worked on themselves first, they're going to come across and the perception from their children is going to be an entirely different thing than what the parent thought I was going to be. Yeah, I always say be mindful of the voice with which we speak to children, for in time that becomes a voice with which they speak to themselves. And yeah, if you hold that tone, if you hold that those certain words, that's received by them. To touch on a point you mentioned earlier, you know, each family, each household does it differently. And I think even even speaking with you now, knowing how the spaces you create, I can understand your sons and do you have any daughters. I don't know, but your child.

26:49 One daughter, Yeah, she's twenty six. They have a space to express themselves, right, I think when you're speaking about we do need boundaries? Do you need rules and regulations? Because things grow in boundaries ideally at the priestein preteen age. And this is not to say someone did it right or wrong, but ideally at the preteen age. Yeah, you want them to have a child voice and child choice, to understand that they have some say in this and it's not just what I say is law, you know. So then ideally like they have some say in it, and you can have a conversation back and forth again them knowing that their well being is in mind. The reason we're doing this is for your well being.

27:34 But yeah, well, and again going back to that, how do you help parents? I'm sure you I'm sure you meet a variety of different personalities and different editudes and so forth. How do you help parents to get to the point where they will approach this from the perspective that you talk about and do it in a way that allows them to maybe understand themselves a little bit more and even you know, just as important as to understand their child so that they can support their child rather than try to necessarily misguide them. Well, I'll tell you this much, and this comes from Dan Siegel. I'll say this, but then I'll answer the question you asked. You are you are going to misguide them?

28:25 You're not going to be a person, No one's going to be a perfect parent, right, And that's actually a feature, not a flaw. I think, Uh, you have to to mess up the pattern a bit to create a rupture, to create reconnection. That that's what I think, because that's what human development is. It's progressive. In order to progress, there has to be some breaking. Like Ernest Hemingway said, life breaks us all and some people are made whole in the broken places. Yeah, so you're not going to be a perfect parent's let's establish that's true. Yeah, so how do I help them? In the show up framework, it looks at human development and the first one is start with a strong identity, right h hold space for collaboration.

29:10 When they have this wall of ice, they don't know who to trust because oftentimes when they have problems or experience problems, they think, what's wrong with me? That creates contention between the parent and the child because oftentimes the parent is looking at the kid like, why aren't you meeting my expectations. If a kid's not meeting expectations, it's only one of two things. Either they don't feel supported or they don't have the skills to do it. What about they just choose not to do it because it's not important to them. A and you know, that's very valid right in the framework, because after that you ask them, I'm noticing this as a challenge, what are your ideas on it? And you're inviting them into the conversation to give their ideas and their thoughts on it, because you're absolutely right, it might not be a value for them. Cleaning their room may not be the thing that they're interested in at the moment.

30:11 Now that opens up the conversation of the parents saying, you know, this is why it's a value to me, because again we're looking at well being and we can only work on one piece to correct at a time. So maybe having a clean room may not be the priority at the moment. It might be something else in regards to sleep, or finishing homework or someone right, right, but you're right, You're right. It opens up the conversation to say, let's look at what we value and then after having the expectations and the regulations set by the parent, we collaborative with the work on a solution, something that you can agree upon and that I can agree upon, and we try it for some time, right, so that they feel part of the process of saying when their challenges, I have a voice at it, right, so that's the age of the show up framework and then always open up communication in WS, wander and explore the world together.

31:13 That means having projects, our personal ones and the ones that our kids have, Like Angela Duckwort says, doing something difficult for a long period, because that's teaching them grit, teaching them how to do hard things, and then teaching them that. You're showing that you have projects, and they have projects, and happy people have projects. So you leave amerski, but you're showing them how to use their virtues and values to reaffirm their identity doing something they want to do in the world, and that is that is moving towards maturity. Well, and you know, it's so interesting you talk about that unvailing potential together, you know, wonder and exploring the world together. What does that do in your I mean, let's look at the underlying reality of what does that do when a parent is willing to spend the time with their child going doing things that hopefully the child enjoys, and what does that do for the relationship and how does that help overall for the parent to help that teenager or that preteen to move forward a little bit better?

32:19 Well, if we want to play a long game, Doug, do you know when people are happiest. In life, it's a long game. It is around right after forty fifty sixty when they still have their health, disposable income, empty nesters in a sense, so they can still use their money, but they still have some life of vitality. And the reason I mentioned that is because they know. It's either they know they played well and they fed into their kids' life, or they live with regret, so it actually diverges. And the reason I mentioned that is because I think what parents want, those who want to bring forth greatness, You just want to You want kids who are a contributor to society to make this a better place. Right, your progeny does it better than you. Right when you're teaching them about projects and about how to give back to the community, you can rest easier in your wise, wise age knowing that you you showed up for your kid, you did an honest effort. There that's the long game. In the moment, it feels good to see yourself achieved. You're making progress step by step. Yeah, I think that's when you ask me, what does it do? I think, Yeah, you've seen yourself progressing.

33:47 That feels good, Yeah, and I think it develops. You know when we talk about communication, and in my mind, the most important thing in raising our children is having and as your number three is having that and communication. And if you have that where they literally can come to you and say, hey, I've got a problem. I want to talk to you about it. They have to understand that they can trust that you will listen and that you will not necessarily judge. You may disagree, but you won't judge, and then be able to offer them if they seek it. Some thoughts and some advice about that.

34:27 How do you help the parent to get to that point? I mean we're dealing with we're dealing with parents and myself included, we have our own emotional junk that we deal with all of the time. How do you help the parents to get to that point of being us so that they can help their child to become the person they really want to be. In the show of framework, what I call it as a trustworthy present parent, because as a kid puts up their wall of ice, it's the fact that of you being there ready for when your kid does come from behind that wall, right and trust is built over time. Yes, it could be lost in a moment, yet it's built over time. Now, one tactic I can give you, So the strategy is to be present and to be someone you can trust. Now, trust is built on three things.

35:23 First of all, you have to be telling the truth. First, all growth begins with telling the truth. Second, your line of thinking has to make sense to them right. And the third is they have to know you care. They have to know that you're actually working for their well being. Right now, that said, one tactic, one way you could do it is the way you communicate with them. I'll tell you a speaking one and then I'll tell you a writing one. A speaking one is how do you pass on your virtues and values without being preachy? If you see them going through a challenge, tell them a story, not just any story. Tell them a story that is yours. Ideally, it's a story that is yours when you're the same age, identify with them so that it's hey, this is what I experienced. Now, stories actually happen in three seconds. Story just means your belief changed, and you give it a meaning.

36:25 I have an example, but just looking at a top level, your beliefs changed. This is what it means to you, and then you invite them into the conversation, say what does this mean to you? Because now you're telling them this is what I believe because of this story that happened to me, and this is why I hold the values I do. What are your thoughts? And when they tell their thoughts, actually make space for them to express themselves. It's not you arguing with them. They might tell you something new that you never even thought of, or they might say, no, I see why you can see it like that, or I get I understand you more. So that's one way to share your virsus and values without being preaching in conversation. And it really does get down to being open to know how to communicate and have your own emotions in control so that you're not judgmental, so you don't get upset, you don't get angry. Hey dad, this is what I really believe. This is what I want to do, and it may be the antithesis of what I wanted to instill in them, and yet that's who they are, and that gets to be a challenge.

37:27 It gets to be a challenge when you're not accepting when they're Yeah, when they hold a view that's different from yours. Yes, I agree, and I see a lot of I see a lot of kids, particularly in this area, see a lot of kids kicked out of their house because they're not living up to the religious virtues of their parents. And you know, to me, that's such a challenge, And I think, how how do we help parents to understand that each of our children are individuals. Yeah, they were made up between a man and a woman, But how do we literally get to the point where we give them their independence, we give them their strength, and yet understanding that at that age some wise counsel and you know, watching out for them is important too.

38:16 I wonder if one of the biggest I don't know, I'm thinking about hearing hearing how you're framing it, and I'm being familiar with the context of how you're saying it. If we tell a person they're less than because they don't believe what we believe, that that for me, that has inherent judgment, you. Know, Oh yeah, yeah, yeah. The the writing technique I wanted to share with you, remember where your attention goes, your energy flows. So we have this one exercise where we're writing a letter and we're speaking about the virtues that our kids hold, and we're saying how we are proud of these virtues that we saw in them, and we're actually just drawing their awareness to something we saw, so we're again we're owning it.

39:08 But it's like, I see this in you, and then you end a letter with when you're ready or if you want to bring this letter back to me, and you will get ten minutes or however minutes you want of my undivided attention, and I will listen with no judgment. What you're doing there is you're anchoring a point of psychological safety whereas they can be themselves authentically without fear of being hurt or being threatened, and they know that they're supported when they're ready, and when that moment of readiness might come, maybe they might use a letter. And even if they don't use a letter, You've communicated to them you can always come back to me when you're.

39:50 Ready well, And I love that to me. That's kind of the foundation of how do you start to open up the communication and give that child enough try in you that they're really willing to talk. And I think that's so important. So as we as we come to a close, what are what would you say A message would be that you would like to share with parents that might be meaningful to them as they're doing with the challenges of pre teenagers. Oftentimes, what I tell what just came to mind was I'm here to help you be an integrity with yourself and like keep your stuff together because your kids are going to disregulate you. That's why I work with parents of preteens.

40:34 I really do. Believe there's no greater privilege than to be who you are, and the duty of privilege is complete integrity. So I try to help parents be in integrity. In this parents his parents become integrity, and it shuffles off out of the kids, doesn't it. Yes, Yes, and. Have a sincere care for bringing forth what your child wants to express. But like, let me see how I can say this sincerely work to their authentic expression and even if they may go waywardly, what you're asked to do is to be faith like for you to be an integrity, to be faithful. And what do I mean by that? The sun rises and the sunsets. The sun is the sun, the sun, that's why we call it.

41:32 It's faithful, right, right, and we know we can trust the sun. Some people may curse it, saying that it's too hot, but it also gives life, it also dries out. It's just the sun. The sun doesn't argue with anybody else. The sun is therefore our well being, if we choose to see it as such. If you're authentically working for the well being of something else, I think you can be at peace knowing that you did your part. But I hear myself saying that, and the well being of someone else well being looks different. That's subjective. Yeah, yeah, And the fact that you did your part.

42:14 I think that. You know, as I get together with my kids and every once in a while, all right, you know what kind of parent was I really? I'm watching you do this a little bit differently here and so forth, and we get into some great discussions, and I recognize those areas where I made mistakes, not consciously but unconsciously. I made some mistakes that I've been able to rectify later on, hopefully. But I think the reality is is that if we can work on ourselves as parents and do the best we can and recognize that, yes, we're going to make mistakes, and forgive ourselves when we can do that, with us, then we can do that with our preteens.

43:00 Yeah, Doug, you actually made by point that is so right. Whenever there's a rupture, work towards repair and reconnection. Yeah. Yeah, Hey, I really appreciate you being on the show. This is fascinating. Thank you. I had a wonderful time. How do how do people find you? Marcus Higgs dot com. That's my website on LinkedIn is actually where you'll find me posting on social media. I have workshops coming up there. But yeah, connect with me on LinkedIn. Okay. Nice Marcus m A R C U S and then Higgs h I G G S correct. Perfect. Marcus, thanks so much for being on the show. This has been fantastic. I really appreciate it. Thanks Dick, you bet folks, thanks for listening. I hope you'll have a wonderful week.

43:51 I hope there's something that's been said here that might make a difference in your life if you're willing to really look at it and check it out. So this is doctor Doug saying nomstaeh