From Punishment to Peace

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At the end of the day,
it's not about what you have or even

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what you've accomplished. It's about what
you've done with those accomplishments. It's about

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who you've lifted up, who you've
made better, It's about what you've given

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back. Denzel Washington, Welcome to
Inspire Vision. Our sole purpose is to

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elevate the lives of others and to
inspire you to do the same. Tom,

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how are you doing? Wonderful,
doctor Doug. How are you hey,

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It's great to have you on this
show. You know, it's fascinating

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to me how life experiences bring us
to a certain point in our lives,

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and how some people have been able
to overcome those experiences and others are still

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struggling with those experiences. And you've
written a book called Punishment to Peace,

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which in my mind is just an
amazing title. I'd love for you to

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share with the audience just briefly,
and then we'll get into things a little

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bit more. But what what motivated
you ultimately to write this book? Uh?

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Well, again, thank you,
doctor Doug for for being on your

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show. I appreciate that. Uh
uh, that's a that's the question.

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I think that did I think about
a lot in in that I spent an

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incredible amount of my life thinking that
I'm supposed to live a life a certain

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way, and I was trained to
do that from my youth, and and

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so I woke up one day and
really it was a confluence of several things.

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Three things happened that said I've got
to go on a journey. And

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the journey was that was the first
step towards writing the book. But the

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journey itself came from an awakening that
my business partner and I decided to close

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the business down that we had,
and thus I didn't have an office to

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go to. And then my second
marriage failed, so I didn't have a

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home to go to. And then
the obsession that I had to prove myself

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in search of my father's love he
passes away. And so the all of

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this of living the life trying to
prove myself and ended up falling into some

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addictions of not the legal, not
the illegal kind, but others. UH

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put me in the direction of saying, I've got to find another way to

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find who Tom Harrison is. That
I lost, I had a hole in

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my soul basically, and so I
reconnected with a childhood a family member,

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a same age uncle, and that
we grew up very close together but went

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diametrically different paths, and we both
grew up in abuse. And so it

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was the start of that journey and
really the eye opening experiences that I learned

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from that uncle, that that said, this is a story that it cannot

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just be something that this person and
myself experienced it. There is there is

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something very meaningful potentially in what we
would go through. And so I started

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recording it and what they're going to
it now began to write well, and

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you know, it's so fascinating that
we all, we all go through different

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experiences in our lives, and some
people allow that to cause them to move

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into a victim mode that they're never
able to get out of. And then

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there are others that you know,
and we're going to get into this more,

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I know, but you know,
such as yourself that was able to

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take that go through a journey and
literally write about it, which you know,

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if you're able to write, or
is the UK you recorded and then

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it was written, but being able
to do that, it not only affected

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you, but it is going to
affect hundreds, if not hundreds of thousands

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of lives who will read that and
realize that, guess what, there's hope.

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You know, as I mentioned to
you, I'm over here in Thailand

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right now, and so so I've
been doing a lot of different studying and

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so forth. And one of the
things every once in a while and not

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all the time, that every once
in a while I sit back and think,

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you know what, I feel such
peace? Why is that now?

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Obviously then I lose that, but
every once in a while, and so

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the name of your book, From
Punishment to Peace really hit me because I

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think for all of us, the
ability to ultimately feel peace in our lives

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is something that is not only hoped
for and desired for, but should be

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the goal for all of us.
So what I'd love for you to do

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is, let's go back to the
beginning. I like you to share your

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story and really talk about what you
went through, and then as you met

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and worked with his relative, talk
a little bit about that. And when

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I find fascinating. You know,
you said he went down one path.

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You went down the different path.
And it's interesting that your path was,

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as you say, motivated by the
things that you experienced in your childhood.

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So I'd love for you to just
get into that thank you, thank you,

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I appreciate it. Well, the
story actually starts when a man is

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a thirty three. He was a
devout Christian. I mean he had Jesus

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Saves on his delivery truck. I
mean he was he wore his faith prominently.

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He was thirty three, he died
from the UI accident. Someone hit

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him and hit his gas tank and
exploded, and he left behind a widow

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and four four children, ages one
through fourteen. And that really was the

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start of this whole list of things, that a line of things that ended

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up happening. And the point here
is that the two characters would have never

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been born if that man hadn't died. And that's to me so profound to

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begin us story that way. But
these two the main characters, they were

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kids that every set of parents would
love to have. They were good hearted

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kids, they tried to please,
they were just Ananda manners, all that

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kind of stuff. But unfortunately,
both kids grew up with highly abusive fathers.

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So that widow remarried had a fit
child, which is the you uncle.

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Character's name is John, and he
and his father had a very deep,

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dark ass too, which was doubled
in the book, and he was

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physically abusive. He ended up molesting
his stepsisters, John's half sisters, John's

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half sisters. It's just a very
disruptive childhood for him. And then the

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other character, myself, the oldest
daughter, ended up having a child at

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sixteen with my father who was and
looking back, was bipolar. He had

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some very severe issues himself, highly
narcissistic, and so he didn't do the

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physical abuse, be did of a
heavy, heavy emotional abuse growing up.

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And so if you can imagine these
two household environments for the first eighteen to

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twenty years of your life, having
to be scared of whether you're going to

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get beaten or whether you're going to
be so your legs cut out from under

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you emotionally, almost constantly, and
it was a challenge. And so for

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both of these characters they had to
figure out how to evolve into adulthood with

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that as part of their DNA.
And so for John, he started soothing

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physically soothing early with started drugs and
alcohol at thirteen and became dependent on both

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for virtually all of his life.
Was homeless. Most of his life was

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in and out of the judicial system. In five different states at least four

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dozen times, and so he struggled
with life. He's certainly did for the

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nephew character. Myself, I somehow
got a college education, some barely got

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into college, and began to feel
success and some form of recognition, something

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in which I did not have in
my first twenty years. And so I

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became really kind of focused on that, and I became an overachiever. So

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one job that wasn't good enough that
had to be out there, it had

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to be a higher paying job.
And if that higher paying job had a

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better title, or a better location
or with a better company, or I

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had to move across I ended up
moving across the country four times. I

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become addicted to success, and as
a result of that, Doctor Doug,

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I became addicted myself to materialism,
to hedonism, and again back to success

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for success sake. And unfortunately,
we both both characters left a wake behind

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them with anyone that came along us
during our journey. We were not the

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easiest people in the world to be
with. And translation to that is the

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punished of the two characters were punished
in their youth, became basically punishers themselves.

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Well you know, it's and I
want to interrupt you for just a

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minute here because it fascinates me that, you know, we talk about how

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some people with that tremendous abuse end
up into drugs and homelessness and so forth,

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which you know, that story in
itself as you think about that,

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and as we think about all of
the homeless people in the world, and

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sometimes there's so much distaste for them, and yet we really don't understand what

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was behind them, mean where they're
at now. In your case, you

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know, you saw success, which
I think we all do to a certain

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degree. But what did you find
as you look back? What did you

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find that that success was doing for
you from the standpoint of pushing aside or

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covering up because I want to use
the word covering up rather than acknowledging,

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because it sounds to me like that's
what you were talking about, covering up

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those earlier years. What was that
success doing for you mentally, that covering

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up those earlier years that made you
feel better? And then as you say,

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you got into some other issues.
Well, thank you for that question.

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And that's so important. Is that
for me, I let the idea

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that one house wasn't enough. Here
Dad, see that I've got now a

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second home, a vacation home,
or maybe a third home, or a

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new car this year. The euphoria
associated with it, we all have it,

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the euphoria of a great meal,
or a new car or something that

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we've done, a great trip.
It's great and it's fine. It's rewarding,

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but it's fleeting. And going back
to that term of peace, euphoria

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and peace are completely you know,
they are like almost in opposite directions as

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to what they are. And in
this case, because I had this obsession

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to prove my father wrong, I
was almost I was doing everything I could

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to raise that bar inside me to
prove to him that I was worthy of

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his love. And unfortunately I could
never get that high. I could never

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hit that mark. Because of his
challenges. He couldn't accept he was not

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capable, given his upbringing and who
he was. He couldn't accept that,

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and so he went through six marriages. And so there lies I think a

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lot of again, something I learned
in my youth. I wanted to be

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the antithesis of it by my father
in many cases, and so I said,

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I'm only going to be married once, so I'll end up now my

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third and last marriage, doctor Doug
believing that's it. But I think we

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tried. For me, I spent
all my life trying to figure out how

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to please a man that couldn't be
pleased. And I did everything I could

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around that, and yet again,
the euphoria of what I was doing to

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myself with my successes was still leaving
me a big hole in who I was.

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I was still searching and not knowing
what to find. And that was

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really, I think the most frustrating
for the people around me, the people

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that cared about well. And then
you had the experience of meeting your uncle,

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and from what you're saying, that
really changed everything. I'd love for

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you to share with the audience that
part of your story and how did that

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come about and what did that bring
together. Well, when I decided to

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kind of walk away from from everything
and say I've got to find a better

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version of who I am, I
don't know where to find it, and

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I got to start. I started
by just picking off certain family members.

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And the one family member that I
had to spend a little bit of time

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thinking about was my uncle John in
Memphis, back in Memphis, in our

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hometown, and so we had not
seen each other, talk to each other

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in twenty years and a bitterly back
to what you were saying earlier, Doctor

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Doug. We look at the homeless
as though, well, you know what,

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they got themselves there, their own
minium, our own drugs. You

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can't get them off of it.
You can give them money, but what

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are they going to do with it? That's always been the challenge, I

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think for many of us, trying
to explore how to react or interact with

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homeless homelessness. And this was no
different. In reconnecting with my uncle,

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I've always lifelong thought he deserved it. He was reckless, you can now

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change him. And I just kind
of washed my hands up. But I

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thought, I've got the he has
the knowledge, has some knowledge of my

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past, of our past, of
the connected tissue that would potentially help me

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and him. Admittedly, I kind
of was a little bit more selfish.

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I wanted to feel better about myself, so I connected with him. We

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started, and we started with one
meal, but then that turned into something

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amazing, Doctor Dog. It started
a series of road trips and the and

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the subtitle of the book is road
Trips to Forgiveness, And we started a

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series of what I've written six road
trips where we reconnect and we began to

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peel the onion of who we were, of who we were really and bearing

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our most difficult moments, our most
difficult things that have happened to us,

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and ultimately the pride that we were
having and the recognition of the fact that

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we were doing damage to others that
began to come out and getting back to

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the whole finish line of peace.
Piece is a finish line, and to

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get there that it has you have
to take multiple steps. You have to

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take multiple road trips in our case, but the start of it is to

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really pull out of each one of
us, and in particular and during this

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story, who we were, why
we ended up where we ended up,

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and then begin to figure out a
way to solve that, to not necessarily

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solve it, but to soothe it. And if we could get to the

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point where we begin to forgive the
wrongdoers, including ourselves, that could be

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the ultimate finish line to the pursuit
of peace and shaking off the punishments of

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our past. So it was an
amazing experience, and he was teaching me,

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and back to your question, he
began to really show me a heart

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that I knew I thought I had, but he continued to have during the

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most difficult life I've ever known any
aboudy in my life. And part of

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his journey was going back and having
him reconnect with his father, who he

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hadn't seen him four years. He
was in a nursing home back on the

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other side of the state of Tennessee. And I didn't know whether me facilitating

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that first connection after so long,
John was going to do something physically bad

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doing or what. I didn't know
what to expect, But what ended up

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happening was probably the most beautiful moment
about life. And I can share more,

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but there's part of it that other
go with the leaf or anyone that

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might need the book, but it
was an amazing story. Well, and

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you know, one of the things
you talk about in the book, I

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know is the influence of others.
I love to follow different people and what

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they're say, and I'm following a
couple of Buddhist monks and one of the

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things that I picked up just the
other day was he was talking about how

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we need to be so careful with
the people that we surround ourselves with because

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of their influence, either for good
or for not good? And I know

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that you talk, you know,
as a major theme in your book about

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the influence of others. Can you
can you talk about that a little bit

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and you know, what are some
of those influences and what are good,

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what's bad? And how do they
affect us? And how do we allow

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them to affect us? That's a
good question. I think that Martin Luther

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King's had a great quota says life
is it about love? Jevy, It's

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about quality, And I think the
antithesis of qualities punishment. I think we

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all have our punishments. I got
rejected about day for when I was an

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eighteen year old. I didn't like
that, so luckily enough I didn't carry

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that for the next thirty years.
But some of those punishments, if we

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received them early in our life,
for long periods of our life, and

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from the people who who are in
control of our eating and our sleeping and

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a roof over our head, we
carry those, I think a lot deeper

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than any other punishment. And so
how to how to address that is really

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important in the sense of do we
let other influencers in general, anybody else

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Once we get to be an adult
we get to control who we let in

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our lives, and we were forced
to have those people. You know,

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we didn't get to choose our parents
were or all the other influencers good and

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bad during our early years. But
we do have someone of a choice as

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to who we let in. And
when I say somewhat, we may fall

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in love with someone but they and
marry them, but they may not be

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the best person in the world for
us in the long run. And I'm

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not saying not advocating anything other than
a one marriage society, but the point

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here is it's a challenge as to
who you let in, and when you

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let in, you could be trapped
into maybe being influenced by other people that

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aren't going to be a positive to
you. But I was extremely fortunate to

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have both other family members and then
mentors I was. I was. What

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I didn't get is from my father
and that mentoring and that direction I was

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almost hungry for in the search through
my career as primarily for career focus,

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and it wasn't until the later years
where I became more of a spiritual focused

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influences influence servers, and once that
hit then really that's where everything started to

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kind of open up, and you
know, the verizons started to shine for

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me. But no doubt the challenge
of what influencers can do to us,

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both positively or negatively. But then
the huge positives can purely and so easily

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alter our life trajection trajectory, excuse
me. And so we have to be

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careful, We have to be always
monitoring that. And how do you judge

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it? How do you how do
you literally judge was went on around you?

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The people that you're surrounding yourself with
their quote influences, whatever that happens

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to be. How can you judge
and say to yourself, this is a

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good influencer, and you know what, this one isn't a good influencer,

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and I need to distance myself or
move away and disconnect from this influencer.

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That's an incredible question. It's a
very difficult question because I think a lot

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of people have I don't want to
overuse this word, but clearly my father

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was a narcissist. I've studied narcissism
quite a bit, and narcissists are extremely

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charming, They can be loving.
In my dad's case, he had various

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different women decide to marry and that's
a big step and so they could be

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charming and sweet, but then unfortunately
he also suffered from bipolar and so you

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can see the other side of that. Uh. It's it's not easy.

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It takes probably more iterations of understanding
and of situations and circumstances happening to you.

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Uh and it may be in some
cases too late, but making the

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hard decision to kind of go,
you're not you're not this isn't right and

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and understanding that, and understanding that
if you get up every morning and you

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dread the day because there's someone whether
it be an employer, whether it be

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your spouse, whether it be even
an adult child, if you sense and

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feel like you've been lack a better
way of saying it, abused, you

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have to figure out a way to
distance yourself. First, slowly, so

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you make sure that you don't completely
break uh and and make and make a

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big mistake. But once you realize
that it's that's there, you have to

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make that hard decision and break away, you know. And it's interesting.

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One of the things I find,
as I've interviewed a number of people and

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as I've studied and researched this out, I find that one of the most

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difficult aspects of someone's life that has
gone through these challenges early on in their

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lives is to reach a point of
awareness to where all of a sudden they're

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able to sit back and go,
you know what, I do not like

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my life. Because many people say
I don't like my life, but they

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don't do anything about it. But
then there are those that suddenly go and

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they become aware that, you know
what, this doesn't have to be this

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way, and quite frankly, I'm
the one that can take responsibility to change

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it. So here's my question for
you. What was the Was it one

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experience? Was there an aha moment
for you or what was it that suddenly

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stopped you in your tracks in the
direction you were going and you said to

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yourself, I've got to change.
I think it was the It was the

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divorce from my second wife. Again, I was a product of multidivorced father.

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I knew the pain that that exhibited
had to me to others, But

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that was that just barely scratched the
surface of the pain that I'm sure that

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existed all around that. And I
wanted to be better than that. I

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strived to be better that from a
very early age, I said, I

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want to be different than how my
father has treated me and how my father

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treated others, and so to have
experienced the first divorce was was traumatizing and

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that was on me, but the
second one it was on me too,

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of course, but it didn't have
to happen. And I think that was

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the aha moment where I said I'm
lost. I had all this stuff,

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I had what everything the world would
want to get or I could ever have

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physically, but I failed to have
a connection, a spiritual and personal connection

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with someone that I cared deeply about, that they felt comfortable with me,

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they could see me as someone that
will always be special in their life,

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and that they want to do life
with me, And to have that feeling

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that they and someone didn't want to
do that was was terrifying for me.

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Terrifying but also heartbreaking. And I
said, I've got to stop whatever hamster

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will I'm on. I've got I've
got to shut it down, and I've

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got to find if there's another part
of who was, another version of who

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I am. And that wasn't easy
because that means I had to own,

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I had to resurrect things. I
had to talk to a lot of people.

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People said, well, Tom,
you did this once or you did

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this all the time, and I
had to start owning that. And that's

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the hardest part of ever, of
all of this, I assure me know

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that it is and and to be
able, I mean, it really takes

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courage to own the personal responsibility.
There's so many times that we can blame

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this person and that person and so
on and so forth in this situation whatever.

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But the reality is that we own
it. If even if something comes

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to us in a certain way that
we don't want, the reality is is

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we probably have drawn that towards us
because of those beliefs and what is literally

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motivating us, so we visualize ultimately
what comes to pass. So the responsibility,

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I think is so so important to
be able to say, okay,

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you know I've had enough now.
The question that you keep bringing up the

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word spiritual, So I'd like for
you to define for the audience what you

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mean by that spiritual connection. Okay, I'm I thought I was a Christian

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all through most of a lot.
I mean, I went to church.

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My grandparents were that took me to
church. I went to school, I

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went to church when I was away
to school. On my own I knew

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who God was and who Christ was. I didn't know what the Holy Spirit

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was. But you know, since
I never knew it, I didn't really

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think much about it. I'd write
checks to churches when they had fun,

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when they needed operating funds and what
I mean. But it was always off

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and on. And I made attempts
to read the Bible. I'll probably made

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twelve attempts in my entire life to
read the Bible. Never got out of

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Genesis. I couldn't get through all
the begatting. I couldn't brai is,

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which is an analytical brain. I
couldn't make sense of the Bible other than

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certain verses. And so I really, even though I consider myself a Christian,

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really wasn't. And so to to
really go through the experience that I

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went through with my uncle, my
uncle when he started attempting UH rehab,

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many of those are spiritual or Christian
focused, Yes, and it's really something

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we got. We want to hold
onto something and really try to strive uh

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to to to reach that mark.
And and and so for for me,

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I I latched on to a gentleman
who ran a small group's uh UH ministry

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in Atlanta, and uh, he
had that and doctor Joe we were talking

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about peace. He had the face
of peace. And I think I've met

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maybe five people in my life and
you might be the sixth one now that

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I'm thank you, But I've met
just very few people that had that look

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about them. And when I first
met him, it was in a business

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environment. We were sitting together and
I said, and I was busy.

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I said, you know what,
it was my business, it was my

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bestment. And my business partner said, we're gonna have a spiritual advisor to

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go. Really, I'm your partner, you know, and you're just now

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telling me that. And he's bringing
in this guy in an office. I

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said, okay, help me with
him. And I was busy. I

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said, I don't think we've got
time for God and this guy to be

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in our office because we're running a
business. Where's how stupid was that coming?

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But anyway, so he begins to
kind of tell me about his mystery

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and then really begins to tell me
about a story, and his story ductor

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Dunk, mirrored mine, where he
was all focused on career and focused on

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trying to make the money and he
was neglecting his wife and children, name,

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and he had gotten a point of
close to being divorced, and he

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woke up one day went to a
silent retreat, which I don't know you've

354
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ever been to a silent retreat.
But you go for two three days somewhere

355
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using a monastery somewhere, and you'll
say a word for three days, and

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you get fed, you got a
bed, but it's between you and God,

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and that's it. And he said, after three days of that,

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he came back and he started crying. He cried. He said, I

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hadn't cry. It says my mother's
He said, he didn't cry at his

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mother's passing. At her funeral,
he breaks down. And the next day

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he walks away from his fortune fifty
company, high level career and starts his

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ministry. And he'd been doing it
for about fifteen years at the time.

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And I'll tell you it was just
I was not as much enamored by the

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fact that he had a ministry as
much as two things he had that peace

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and his story resembled mine. And
this was the opening, doctor Duck to

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my journey of saying, I need
to be around people who can share with

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me and me share with them my
stories, our stories, so that so

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we can, as guys, well, we don't like sharing, so let's

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start with that. But as guys, we can begin to realize that we're

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not the only ones out there who
did live up the dad's expectation, who

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may have gone through a divorcer too, who have a child that might be

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of a challenge, who have done
things in the past that they wish he

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had done. And once we begin
to realize that we're not alone in that,

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that really opens up the floodgates of
possibilities. And that's really what a

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lot of this book is about.
It. You could see the floodgates opening

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for the jet for the John and
Tommy, in the two main characters in

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the book. Well, and you
know, it's fascinating to me. You

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bring up something very interesting, and
I think that it applies to many,

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not all, but to many people
who go through the motions of being a

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good thank you, or being a
good Christian, or being a good you

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know, Buddhist or whatever that happens
to be, and yet they don't really

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experience what you refer to. And
I would refer to it also as that

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spirituality being able to tap into that
universal light of goodness and kindness and compassion,

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and which is literally taught in all
of those various forms. And yet

385
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it takes that type of connection.
Whatever it is, it doesn't have to

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00:31:07.680 --> 00:31:11.440
be Christian. I happen to be
one too, by the way, But

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it doesn't have to be that.
It only has to be something that you

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can connect to from the standpoint of
really feeling that sense of spirituality to where

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literally you're able to start moving into
an entirely different section of your life and

390
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the way you're thinking, the mindset
that you have, the consciousness that you

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have, is now being influenced by
something entirely different. I've got a great

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00:31:41.119 --> 00:31:45.200
phrase that I love saying, and
I share it with you. Those who

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devote themselves to themselves eventually lose themselves. And I think what we're talking about,

394
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this story exemplifies it. But I
think what you're trying to I think

395
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what you're accomplishing with what you're doing
just the same thing, and that is

396
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we're turning ourselves from looking always within
to kind of satisfy us who we are

397
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and really begin to start looking outward. And if we can begin to look

398
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outward, then that's where we begin
to feel much better about ourselves and can

399
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heal and thus believe that can get
to peace. And I think as we

400
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look outward in that arena, we
begin to realize who we really are and

401
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have an entirely different viewpoint of the
goodness that each of us have. You

402
00:32:35.440 --> 00:32:38.000
know, there's so many people that
feel like they're no good and you know

403
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that comes from the abuse that comes
from the childhood, whatever it happens to

404
00:32:42.440 --> 00:32:45.839
be. And yet, you know, wouldn't it be wonderful if we all

405
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could really just sit back and realize, you know, and in spite of

406
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my faults and we all have them, ultimately I'm good. And when we

407
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have that understanding, that's going to
totally change our behavior. I think the

408
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I think the journey of discovering that
we are good, that there are that

409
00:33:13.400 --> 00:33:16.720
we do not have to live like
the way we've lived and how we felt

410
00:33:16.720 --> 00:33:22.319
about ourselves in the past, is
an amazing journey, and I think can

411
00:33:22.519 --> 00:33:24.799
it comes in steps. I'm going
to share something that I've I kind of

412
00:33:24.799 --> 00:33:28.880
put my lot myself in in a
room and really thought about this when I

413
00:33:29.000 --> 00:33:31.680
started receiving the question what do you
want readers to take away from reading the

414
00:33:31.680 --> 00:33:37.359
book? And I came up with
something called the five hours of a Piece.

415
00:33:37.039 --> 00:33:39.519
And so the first and it's right
a lot of what you were just

416
00:33:39.519 --> 00:33:43.160
saying. The first is you have
to take the risks to do it.

417
00:33:43.920 --> 00:33:47.640
You have to wake up one day
ago, I have to risk feeling uncomfortable

418
00:33:47.799 --> 00:33:52.039
to figure out why I have turned
out the way that I've turned out.

419
00:33:52.039 --> 00:33:59.799
The second is reveal, whether it's
to a priest or a spouse, or

420
00:33:59.839 --> 00:34:05.519
a small men's or women's small group, or a complete stranger walking down the

421
00:34:05.519 --> 00:34:09.760
street. Being able to pull out
what you're caring, those punishments you're caring,

422
00:34:09.800 --> 00:34:15.440
and how they how they trans transgressed
into what you've become. Uh,

423
00:34:15.719 --> 00:34:22.360
is extremely important to begin sharing.
The third R is receive, So if

424
00:34:22.400 --> 00:34:28.519
you're an environment where you you're around
others, be open to receive their thoughts

425
00:34:28.599 --> 00:34:31.079
because that's when you're going to begin
to understand that you're not alone in what

426
00:34:31.119 --> 00:34:36.599
you're doing and what you've been through. I mean, uh uh. The

427
00:34:36.920 --> 00:34:43.199
fourth is respond In those same same
kind of small group environments or people that

428
00:34:43.199 --> 00:34:50.639
that that you're working with, exercising
the empathy muscle, meaning being there to

429
00:34:50.719 --> 00:34:54.760
potentially help others is an amazing step
in my opinion, that's where you turn

430
00:34:55.280 --> 00:35:00.159
turn it from it's about me to
about others. And when when that and

431
00:35:00.280 --> 00:35:06.239
happens, then the fifth hour is
reconciled, which is forgive your wrongdoers,

432
00:35:06.559 --> 00:35:13.119
including the wrongdoer of who you are. Uh And and if you can forgive

433
00:35:13.119 --> 00:35:15.880
those wrongdoers and forgive yourself and what
you've done, you've hit that goal.

434
00:35:15.960 --> 00:35:22.159
You've hit that that finish line of
piece. In my opinion, that's amazing.

435
00:35:22.199 --> 00:35:24.559
And when I was on when I
was on your website, I found

436
00:35:24.599 --> 00:35:30.920
a quote in the video that is
that runs and I stopped it and I

437
00:35:30.000 --> 00:35:35.960
copied it and I pasted it because
I thought it was such. Now,

438
00:35:36.039 --> 00:35:39.119
I don't know if this is yours
or whether you got this quote from someone

439
00:35:39.159 --> 00:35:43.480
else, but if it's okay,
I'd like to read it. Peace and

440
00:35:43.880 --> 00:35:50.480
peace and redemption can only occur by
burying the past, finding compassion for wrongdoers,

441
00:35:50.880 --> 00:35:57.760
and forgiving ourselves. That is so
powerful for that one. But yes,

442
00:35:57.920 --> 00:36:00.000
no, it is so true.
And if I had to sum up

443
00:36:00.000 --> 00:36:07.119
the entire book, the entire journey
with my uncle John, the entire cathartic

444
00:36:07.559 --> 00:36:13.159
ten years it took to go through
this experience and then ultimately put it into

445
00:36:13.199 --> 00:36:16.320
words, written words, it would
be that line. It would definitely be

446
00:36:16.360 --> 00:36:21.039
that line. And I am a
much better person, I'm a much better

447
00:36:21.119 --> 00:36:30.440
husband. I've learned to love much
better than the superficial love of just saying

448
00:36:30.440 --> 00:36:34.840
hey, I love you. And
so I think it's been a wonderful journey

449
00:36:34.840 --> 00:36:38.440
for both John and myself. It
ended somewhat tragically, but it's an amazing

450
00:36:38.639 --> 00:36:44.719
ending no matter what, and it's
just it was a great journey. So

451
00:36:45.039 --> 00:36:47.840
you know, one thing I find
and we all experienced this is we're out

452
00:36:47.840 --> 00:36:52.199
there really doing the best we can
to improve the lives about theirs as well

453
00:36:52.199 --> 00:36:59.119
as ourselves. It's rare that we
get the feedback this is Hey, that

454
00:36:59.280 --> 00:37:01.920
meant so much. And just every
once in a while I'll get someone that

455
00:37:01.960 --> 00:37:06.440
will send me a message or call
me and say, hey, that last

456
00:37:06.639 --> 00:37:10.199
interview you did on your podcast has
really touched me in a positive way.

457
00:37:10.800 --> 00:37:15.440
So have you had that happen for
people who have read your book? And

458
00:37:17.280 --> 00:37:21.920
can you share it if there's any
stories that you have of people that have

459
00:37:22.079 --> 00:37:25.599
responded back to you and said thank
you because this has changed my life.

460
00:37:27.920 --> 00:37:36.280
I will give you two stories.
One is a young Lady Who, and

461
00:37:36.320 --> 00:37:39.199
it has just been released about three
weeks now, so it was actually the

462
00:37:39.320 --> 00:37:47.360
very first Amazon review, and she
just was just amazed at the power of

463
00:37:47.400 --> 00:37:51.599
how it affected her. And so
I was just thrilled with that. Have

464
00:37:51.719 --> 00:37:55.360
that to be the first review and
within a couple of days of release was

465
00:37:55.440 --> 00:38:00.639
just so empowering. But there is
a story I'd like to share that's really

466
00:38:00.480 --> 00:38:05.800
Uh, it's gut wrenching, but
yet it's amazing. And Uh, as

467
00:38:05.960 --> 00:38:12.440
part of writing the book and my
journey with John as I mentioned his father,

468
00:38:12.639 --> 00:38:15.760
the stepfather of the other children,
Uh, these being my mother.

469
00:38:15.800 --> 00:38:20.920
She had passed away, so I
couldn't investigate whether she what what what may

470
00:38:20.920 --> 00:38:25.239
have happened to her. But the
youngest of the daughters, my aunt,

471
00:38:25.280 --> 00:38:30.159
my aunt, she was molested.
Uh. And then there's a middle daughter

472
00:38:30.840 --> 00:38:35.159
who was was still alive, lived
close to me, and she was part

473
00:38:35.239 --> 00:38:37.559
of that. I want to figure
out the family, You want to figure

474
00:38:37.599 --> 00:38:42.000
out why I ended up pelling it
up. And I somehow I had it

475
00:38:42.000 --> 00:38:46.400
in me to ask chrs and Uh, Sue, did Woody was the character

476
00:38:46.480 --> 00:38:51.400
his he's the antagonist character in the
book. Did Woody molest you? And

477
00:38:51.440 --> 00:38:54.280
I was just I don't know where
it came from. I said, I

478
00:38:54.360 --> 00:38:59.880
know what had happened to Carol.
I know it's happened to others. Did

479
00:39:00.079 --> 00:39:04.000
happened to you? And she goes
no. I was thankful. I says

480
00:39:02.800 --> 00:39:07.079
that that's great. So I'm really
happy about that. She didn't and so

481
00:39:07.119 --> 00:39:08.719
didn't say another word. So and
I didn't want to get in the middle

482
00:39:08.760 --> 00:39:12.079
of it. I didn't want to
go too deep. I just wanted to

483
00:39:12.079 --> 00:39:15.280
way to go. And she didn't
really like the guy obviously, so want

484
00:39:15.280 --> 00:39:20.039
to see her the next time.
She says, Tom, I want to

485
00:39:20.039 --> 00:39:25.199
say something I lied to I said
what she said there was there was an

486
00:39:25.239 --> 00:39:35.320
incident and I she was stoic,
but I went to tears and she says,

487
00:39:35.320 --> 00:39:37.880
don't cry. It's been a lot. It was a long time ago.

488
00:39:37.920 --> 00:39:40.239
And so we got over it.
And then the next time, I

489
00:39:40.280 --> 00:39:44.920
said, the next time, I
said, I got to us, and

490
00:39:45.960 --> 00:39:49.400
she said, you know, I
never told my husband of forty years that

491
00:39:49.599 --> 00:39:52.360
he passed away a couple of years
prayer, he said. She said,

492
00:39:52.440 --> 00:39:55.880
I never told my husband. He
says, and I need to tell you

493
00:39:55.920 --> 00:40:00.960
that by telling you, I've had
the most amaze. Easy weight lifted off

494
00:40:01.000 --> 00:40:07.400
my shoulders, and I never have
felt this way in my life, and

495
00:40:07.440 --> 00:40:13.239
so she was so thankful that I
took the bold, transparent step to add

496
00:40:13.280 --> 00:40:17.320
to point blank asker if that happened
to her, and she was able to

497
00:40:17.440 --> 00:40:22.679
kind of transition to turning that into
something to where she was reaching towards a

498
00:40:22.719 --> 00:40:27.960
really peaceful point in her life.
And I'm just I was just I was

499
00:40:28.039 --> 00:40:32.079
blown away by that that I didn't
expect it. I expect the original answer,

500
00:40:32.079 --> 00:40:36.559
to expect the follow up answer.
I certainly didn't expect that she would

501
00:40:36.599 --> 00:40:42.639
come back and say that she she
had been changed and really felt such a

502
00:40:42.679 --> 00:40:47.119
relief from having exposed that well.
And I think it makes such a difference,

503
00:40:47.239 --> 00:40:52.679
number one, to admit it to
ourselves, but then to be able

504
00:40:52.800 --> 00:40:58.480
to somehow admit that whether it's in
her writing or you know, a family

505
00:40:58.519 --> 00:41:04.199
member or a friend, and it
just takes that pressure off. So this

506
00:41:04.599 --> 00:41:07.800
has been great, Tom, and
and I'm looking forward to getting your book.

507
00:41:08.079 --> 00:41:13.639
Is it also an audible or is
it just strictly right now that we're

508
00:41:13.679 --> 00:41:17.920
considering going to the audible route,
But right now it's it's available on Amazon

509
00:41:19.079 --> 00:41:25.079
both kindle and paperback. And then
if anyone once a once a version that's

510
00:41:25.119 --> 00:41:29.800
that signed the website. We can
order through the website both a hard hard

511
00:41:30.079 --> 00:41:32.679
cover and a paperback. But it's
just so we're just now figuring out what

512
00:41:32.760 --> 00:41:37.039
to do potentially with Audible, but
we want to at least get a few

513
00:41:37.079 --> 00:41:42.679
weeks to a couple of months of
activity go before we consider going up fantastic.

514
00:41:42.760 --> 00:41:45.639
So as we're closing, what what
I'd love for you to do is

515
00:41:45.800 --> 00:41:53.360
take less than a minute and share
with the audience what would be the message

516
00:41:53.480 --> 00:42:00.360
that you want to share with them
as we close this interview. Well,

517
00:42:00.400 --> 00:42:04.400
I think the only thing that I
could really say is about as bold a

518
00:42:04.440 --> 00:42:09.400
statement as I can say, is
take the chance. If you're carrying a

519
00:42:09.480 --> 00:42:13.840
burden, whatever it is, call
it a punishment, I call it punishments.

520
00:42:14.079 --> 00:42:17.079
But whatever burden that you're carrying,
don't do it in silence, because

521
00:42:17.360 --> 00:42:22.440
especially guys, again, men are
much more difficult to put themselves in position

522
00:42:22.880 --> 00:42:28.360
of opening up because they're afraid to
be vulnerable to others. But a reality,

523
00:42:28.519 --> 00:42:34.480
vulnerability to me is strength beyond anyone's
capacity, in my opinion, And

524
00:42:34.559 --> 00:42:38.599
so reach out and find someone or
a group of people that can really help

525
00:42:38.679 --> 00:42:43.119
you address that, because that's going
to be your path to piece my pinion.

526
00:42:44.320 --> 00:42:46.639
Wonderful Tom, thank you so much
for being on the show. I

527
00:42:46.880 --> 00:42:52.639
really appreciate it. The name of
the book, from Punishment to Peace,

528
00:42:54.119 --> 00:42:59.000
Thank you very much. Thank you, and folks, thanks for listening.

529
00:42:59.159 --> 00:43:02.199
Hope you've enjoyed it, and you
know, if this resonates with you,

530
00:43:02.280 --> 00:43:08.800
get ahold of the book and really
take the time to identify with characters that

531
00:43:08.880 --> 00:43:15.239
Tom uses, which is obviously himself
and his uncle, and see how that

532
00:43:15.280 --> 00:43:22.239
can guide you and maybe encourage you
to really start to seek that piece in

533
00:43:22.280 --> 00:43:25.920
your own life. Is doctor Doug
Saining. Have a wonderful week, and

534
00:43:27.000 --> 00:43:27.880
thank you so much