Sept. 23, 2024

Fragmented to Whole

Fragmented to Whole

Boundaries. That is probably one of the most difficult things to set for many people, particularly those who fall within the concept of codependency.
Barb Nangle is one such person who struggled most of her life in co-dependent realationships and...

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Boundaries. That is probably one of the most difficult things to set for many people, particularly those who fall within the concept of codependency.
Barb Nangle is one such person who struggled most of her life in co-dependent realationships and ultimately was able to break the pattern through the concept of “re-parenting” through a 12 step process known as as ACA.
Barb shares the process that she went through to reach of point of happiness and peace in her life.
https://higherpowercc.com

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This program is designed to provide general information with regards

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to the subject matters covered. This information is given with

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the understanding that neither the hosts, guests, sponsors, or station

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are engaged in rendering any specific and personal medical, financial,

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legal counseling, professional service, or any advice. You should seek

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the services of competent professionals before applying or trying any

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suggested ideas.

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At the end of the day, it's not about what

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you have or even what you've accomplished. It's about what

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you've done with those accomplishments. It's about who you've lifted up,

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who you've made better. It's about what you've given back.

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Denzel Washington, welcome to Inspire Vision. Our sole purpose is

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to elevate the lives of others and to inspire you

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to do the same.

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Barb, welcome to the show.

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Thank you so much, Doctor Doug. I'm really excited to

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be here.

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Oh it's great. I'm glad we were able to connect

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on this. So let the audience know who you are

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and the background behind why you were at the point

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you are.

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Okay, So my name is Barb Nangel. I am a

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Boundaries coach. I'm a former people pleaser, rescuer, fixer, enabler, savor, enabler,

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codependent person. And when I was fifty two and twenty fifteen,

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I hit a code dependent bottom and I didn't know

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what that word meant. I had never heard it, despite

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having been in therapy since about age fifteen, reading a

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Goojulian self help books, doing like workshops, workbooks, spiritual like

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you name it, I was trying, and I was shocked

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to learn that as this very introspective person I am,

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I hadn't heard the word codependent. And I learned that

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it's really it's sort of a constellation of things, but

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the theme is that people are codependent focused on that

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which is outside of themselves. So we're often really more

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concerned with other people, what they're doing, what they're saying,

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what they're thinking, what they're thinking about us, and really

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end up neglecting ourselves because we're so focused externally. And

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I ended up, through a series of serendipitous events, landing

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in twelve step recovery for codependence and very quickly realized,

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I think I need to be reparented. But I didn't

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know that reparenting was a thing. I thought I'd made

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that up and Then a few weeks into my codependance recovery,

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I went to go visit a friend a few hours

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away who had been in Alcoholics Anonymous for over ten years,

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and she had raved since I met her about how

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radically her life was changed. So I said, hey, I've

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been going to this twelve step meeting CODA, and she said,

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you know, let's see if we can find a code

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of meeting locally and we'll go. And she couldn't, but

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she found an ACA meeting doctor which I knew of

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this ACA Adult Children of Alcoholics. It never occurred to

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me that I qualified, but she qualified. So I was like,

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I'll go for you. And I walk in and they say,

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we reparent ourselves, and I was like what. And then

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they read the list of the fourteen traits of an

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adult child excuse me, which is affectionately called the laundry List.

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And I thought at the time that I qualified for

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seven of them. It turns out it's really thirteen. I

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was in such denial about my own dysfunction and the

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dysfunction of my family, and I learned in this meeting

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that the name of the group is actually Adult Children

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of Alcoholics and Dysfunctional families. So for that program, I qualified.

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So I started going to that program, and about a

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year into it, I decided to let go of CODA

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because it wasn't a great fit. And it turned out

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that was a higher powered moment because I ended up

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going in to Overeaters Anonymous and going on the night

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that I had been going to KODA. I'm now down

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over one hundred pounds from my top weight. I've been

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at my goal weight for over six years. And all

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of that self help and therapy and stuff that I

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did before recovery, the way I think of it, Doctor Doug,

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is it scratched the surface of the iceberg of my life,

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and twelve step recovery melted the iceberg my life. So

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for me, the twelve steps are where it's at. I

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think there is so much wisdom in twelve step recovery

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that is just not making its way out into the world,

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which is why I started my podcast, which is called

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Fragmented to whole life lessons from twelve Step Recovery. There

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was so much about me like that I didn't have boundaries.

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I grew up in a dysfunctional family. I had intergenerational dysfunction,

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childhood trauma, I had unrealistic expectations of myself other people

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in the world. I was deeply entrenched in victim mentality

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and and that was by far the biggest paradigm shift

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of my recovery. I was a dishonest person. I truly

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believed I was an honest person. I lied all the

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time about things like cigarettes and drugs and alcohol, but

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mainly in the people pleasing department, and just many other

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things that just came up very easily in the first

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two years of recovery, and as a codependent, and I

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think of the codependence as my core wound. Boundaries is

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kind of the antidote to that. So because of that,

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learning how to build healthy boundaries was such a game

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changer for me that when I ultimately started my own

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business I decided to niche as a boundaries coach, because

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boundaries permeate every area of our lives. And I, even

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though I always had high self esteem, I always kind

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of liked myself. When I got in recovery, I could see,

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you know, that was not the behavior of a woman

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who felt worthy. That was not the behavior of a

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woman who loved herself. And I also I did know

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that I didn't trust myself, and so there are many,

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many gifts of boundaries. But I learned to really love myself.

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I built self trust, and I came to feel worthy.

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And I had been in a string of dysfunctional romantic

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relationships my entire life. And then when I was fifty five,

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three and a half years into my recovery, I met

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my sweetheart. Were still together. We've been together for five

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and a half years, and I am in a very healthy, loving,

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wonderful relationship with this man that I just was not

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capable of in the past. But I thought that it

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was them the whole time, so I could go on

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and on. I feel like I've given you enough sort

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of body understand you my story and my transformation and

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that sort of thing, and why I do what I do.

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You have and one of the things that I want

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to really if you don't and if it's not too sensitive,

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and you can say no if you want to. But

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what I find is for a lot of listeners that

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have experienced this horrific childhood situations, you tell me you

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were in therapy at a very young age, Are you

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okay to kind of share in general what you went

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through as a child, Because I want people to be

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able to see that if they're going through similar situations

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that there is hope.

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Yeah. Absolutely, So I want to answer that question by saying,

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when I first got into ACA, I didn't know that

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it was a trauma recovery program. So it's a trauma

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recovery program where you repairent yourself and you use the

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twelve steps to recover. And I'm here in trauma and

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I was like, when I was seventeen, my dad tried

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to strangle me, and I moved out and it happened

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again when I was eighteen. I knew that that was traumatic,

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Doctor Doug. That was pretty clear. But I also was like, well,

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you know, I was almost an adult. It wasn't childhood,

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so that doesn't count. And I kept hearing other people

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and it was very clear to me that objectively, I

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did not have it as bad as the other people

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in the room. I didn't get physically abused other than

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the strength the attempts to strangle me. I wasn't told

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that I was a piece of crap. I wasn't told

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I was going to amount to anything, but it was

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very clear that I had those traits that I mentioned.

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And then when I heard that the absence of good

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things happening can cause trauma. I was like, Oh, that

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makes sense to me, and I've since heard that trauma

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can result from unmet needs. So that's when I stopped

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fighting against I belong here, even though I knew I belonged,

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but I just kept kind of making excuses for why

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I didn't. So what happened for me is what I

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call the the drip drip drip of emotional invalidation. I

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was not really allowed to have the feelings that nactually

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came to me from sometimes being a scared little kid

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or a worried little kid. And I also my parents

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gas lit me, so I know that that's a term

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people are throwing around a lot lately, And for me,

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what that means is they would say things that were

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just not true. So I'll give you an example. My

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mom secretly smoked cigarettes and one time and we like

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as we knew it as kids, but of course we

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didn't talk about it, and that is really crazy making

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for children. But I remember one time my brother going

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into the room she used to smoke in her bathroom

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off of her room, and he went into the room

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and he goes, it smells like smoke. In here and

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she goes, no, it doesn't. That's the bathroom spray. So

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this is what I remember right now. God only knows

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how many other times we were told what you perceive

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is not what's happening. And for me, doctor Doug, the

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worst effect of growing up in a dysfunctional family was

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not was questioning my own perception. Is this real? Did

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this really happen? And how can you have a high

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quality life where you thrive when you question your own

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perception about us?

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My mom?

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Do I not? Is this real? Did this happen? That

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sort of thing. So that's really the description of what

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happened for me. And when I learned the term relational trauma,

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it was like things clicked into place for me, like,

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oh so it's not big t trauma like a blunt event,

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it's little tea trauma. That's something that happens continually over time.

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Well, and I think that we all go through that

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because I love the word perception, because as you think

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of a child, you know what you went through, I

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would assume is as you said, you know that perception

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of it's my reality. It then becomes I'm really not

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I'm really not any I'm not worthwhile I'm this type

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of thing and many children, you know, and we're all guilty.

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This is parents, you know, we will say something not

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being aware that the perception of the child is going

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to be far different than what we were actually saying.

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So the words we use, the body language, all of

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those types of things that tonality, I think are so

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important for parents to understand that you've got to be

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aware of what is the child's perception and maybe a

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little communication would help in that regard, you know what, I.

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Go ahead, Oh, I just want to add one to think.

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I think a lot of that, like the innocent things

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that adults do with children, comes from the fact that

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kids are really concrete and adults are not. So when

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I was little, my great aunt always had candy at

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her house and she was single, and to me, candy

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was for kids. And I was like, why do I

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always have candy? And she said, I have a sweet tooth. Well,

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I was so little that I thought meant she had

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a specific tooth in her mouth, but she had to, like,

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I don't know, put candy on or something like that.

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And it wasn't until I was a teenager that I

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was like, oh, it means I like sweets is what

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it means, right, But I carved that idea into my

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head about a sweet tooth, and I just let that

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idea stay in my head until one day in my teenagehood,

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I was like, that's crazy. Oh it means I like sweets.

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So that's just that's an innocent example. But multiply that times.

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How many times do we say things?

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It's a case. Well, yeah, and it's interesting, you know.

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I also love how you talked about codependency. Well, one

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of the interesting things that I have found is I'm

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the behavioral analyst also, so I use very much an

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assessment to help people. And what I found is that

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there's a particular personality style that lends itself towards codependency.

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And it really is you know, when we get into it,

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we talk about ways of communicating with the greatest fear,

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with the greatest strength, and so forth. Greatest fear with

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this particular personality is abandonment the relationships, and so they

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tend to stay in those relationships and as you say,

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disregard boundaries because the fear is greater, The fear of

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abandonment is greater than the fear of the unknown.

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Right exactly, and you know, it's funny that you mentioned abandonment,

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because that is the core wound of adult children, is

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that most of us have been emotionally abandoned. Some of

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us have been literally abandoned. Whether it's you know, it's

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not the typical you were left on a church doorstep

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or at the fire station. It could be you know,

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your parents separated, or it could be your parents were

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never home, or they just emotionally abandoned you. And unfortunately,

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for adult children, is the thing we fear the most.

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Abandonment is the thing we do to ourselves. So if

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you're in a relationship that is dysfunctional and you stay

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in it because you're afraid that they're going to leave you,

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and you people, please, when you say things are okay

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that are not okay, et cetera, and you compromise your values,

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you are abandoning yourself. So you've really built abandonment into

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the relationship because you're not really there. This fake version

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of you is there, and so it's your the relationship

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is doomed to fill that need of closeness and intimacy

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that we're actually seeking, which is the opposite of abandonment.

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And this is why in the ACA program. We say

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the solution is to become your own loving parent, in

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other words, to give yourself to backfill that love that

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you've missed as a child. And what I found, doctor Doug,

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is that when I stopped abandoning myself, I stop being

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afraid of abandonment from other people because I'm not abandoned.

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And then, you know, I don't know if everybody knows this,

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but twelve step programs are spiritual pro and that means

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we find a power greater than ourselves. I personally call

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my higher power God. Not everybody does. But when you

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stopped abandoning yourself and you also feel like you have

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a connection with a higher power, you're like, doubly maybe

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we could even say quadruple not abandoned. And so you

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don't go out into the world in this grasping way

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of like, don't abandon me, don't abandon me, don't abandon me.

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You find somebody who matches a much healthier, non grasping

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version of you. And for me, I learned like learning

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to build healthy boundaries was one of the many ways

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that I learned to stop abandoning myself. I learned to

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show up for myself, to follow through for myself to

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say the truth about what was okay and what was

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not okay. And it's a process that you go through.

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I personally happened to go through like this meandering, haphazard

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process over two to three years in recovery in the beginning,

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even know that I was building boundaries. And what I've

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done is, you know, I did a lot of reading

274
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about boundaries after that and sort of retroactively understood what

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I did. And I as I was reading, I would

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draw images to visually depict like what did that look

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like to me? Because I'm a pretty visual person, And

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those images turned into handouts, which turned into a workbook,

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which turned in that's the spine of my Boundaries coaching program.

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So I've figured out, like, what are the qualities, what's

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the essence of what you need to build boundaries in

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a matter of weeks rather than a matter of months.

283
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And essentially I coach people who are former me, you know,

284
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because I know what it's like to look like you

285
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have it together on the outside. Meanwhile, internally you're a

286
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mess and probably have a series of dysfunctional relationships, or

287
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you're continually saying no, would you really want to say yes,

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and you're neglecting yourself because you're so focused on other

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people Like those are the typically women that I work

290
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with that are like that because I want to help

291
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former me, because I wish I had a me to

292
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coach me through this process.

293
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Well, and you know, you talk about a lot of things.

294
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You talk about ACA, and for the audience, could you

295
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explain exactly what does that stand for? ACA?

296
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So it stands for adult children of Alcoholics and dysfunctional Families.

297
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It was started in nineteen seventy eight by some teens

298
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who had grown out of the Altine program, which is

299
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a program for teenagers who are children of alcoholics, and

300
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they outgrew that program, but they didn't want to go

301
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to alan On, which is an adult program for loved

302
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ones of alcoholics. And because they were like, those are

303
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parents are in the room, you know, we don't want

304
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to be in the room with them. We feel like

305
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there's something qualitatively different about growing up in an alcoholic

306
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or otherwise dysfunctional family.

307
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Right.

308
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It was originally named Adult Schoune of Alcoholics because they

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were just adult own of alcoholics, and over time the

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name was changed to include dysfunctional families because it became

311
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clear there are a variety of types of dysfunction that

312
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result in the same traits. So you could grow up

313
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in a super militaristic family, a family where there's chronic

314
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illness or mental illness or personality disorder of a parent.

315
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Maybe you move a ton, it could be like a

316
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hyper religious family. There's all kinds of types of families

317
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that can result in having the same traits as adult

318
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children of alcoholics. So that's why they expand it and

319
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call it, they say and dysfunctional families now. And it's

320
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a twelve step program, which the twelve steps started with

321
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alcoholics anonymous in the late thirties and there are now

322
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literally hundreds of twelve step recovery programs.

323
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Well, And as you talk about this specific one, because

324
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obviously it worked for you, what are the twelve steps

325
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or is it something that is easy to remember or

326
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what are they exactly?

327
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You know, I could probably recite them, I could also

328
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pull them up. But like step one is, we're powerless

329
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over you know whatever the thing like in alcohol looks

330
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anonymous is we're powerless over alcohol, and our lives have

331
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become manageable. In acas, we're powerless over the effects of

332
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family dysfunction and our lives have become unmanageable. And so

333
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what we say in ACA is the main effects are

334
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fear and distorted thinking. So because I grew up in

335
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a dysfunctional family, I am going to have some distorted thinking.

336
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For example, I can't trust my perception. I couldn't trust

337
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my perception as a kid. Or here's another distorted thinking.

338
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If I abandon myself enough, people will love me. That

339
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is some really serious distorted thinking. And then step two

340
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is came to believe that a power greater than our

341
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selves could restore us to sanity, and ACA we sometimes

342
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say could restore us to clarity because we never had sanity.

343
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Maybe and I grew up, I didn't know that I

344
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was confused much of my life until I got in

345
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recovery and I looked back and I was like, oh

346
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my god, I was confused all the time because I couldn't.

347
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Trust my own perception. And then step three is became

348
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willing to turn our will and our lives over to

349
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a power greater than ourselves. And that for me, even

350
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though I identified as a spiritual person, when I got

351
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into recovery, and as I said, I call my high

352
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power God, I didn't use God. In other words, I

353
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didn't turn my will and my life over to God.

354
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I didn't ask God for guidance. I didn't say, God,

355
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you know, please show me your will for me. And

356
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when I started doing that, it was like the weight

357
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of the not the weight of the world, the weight

358
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of the universe was taken off of me. Because I

359
00:20:56.039 --> 00:20:58.319
always felt like I had to have an answer, I

360
00:20:58.319 --> 00:21:00.759
had to know things, I had to stuff out on

361
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my own. And when I started being able to hand

362
00:21:03.480 --> 00:21:06.640
stuff over, it was, you know, it was amazing. So

363
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and then step four is where we say we take

364
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a searching and fearless moral inventory of ourselves. And this

365
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is so that we can really get to note what

366
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have I been doing in my life that has been

367
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creating chaos or maybe exacerbating the already existing chaos, creating dysfunction.

368
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And I think for me, this is the step that

369
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got me to come out of victim mentality, that got

370
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me to see that I had that victim mentality I

371
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was telling you about and got me to come out

372
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of it. Because it's not like I was walking around

373
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going you're to blame, You're to blame, You're to blame.

374
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But I was living in blame of other people. I

375
00:21:50.759 --> 00:21:54.319
really thought, for example, in all my relationships, well, if

376
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he would just fill in the blank, then everything would

377
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be okay, which meant that I was acting like I

378
00:21:58.920 --> 00:22:00.720
got nothing to do with the step of any of

379
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my relationships. And actually, here's a funny little story. I

380
00:22:06.440 --> 00:22:10.480
thought that I was responsible for all of the good

381
00:22:10.680 --> 00:22:15.599
things in all my relationships, and then he, whoever he was,

382
00:22:15.599 --> 00:22:19.519
was responsible for all the bad things. Now when you say,

383
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when I say that, on the face of it, that's ridiculous, like,

384
00:22:21.960 --> 00:22:25.079
how could that possibly beze, So it wasn't a conscious

385
00:22:25.119 --> 00:22:27.759
thought that I had. It came up to my consciousness

386
00:22:27.759 --> 00:22:30.480
when I did the twelve Steps of Recovery because I

387
00:22:30.559 --> 00:22:33.359
was taking the searching and for it fearless moral inventory

388
00:22:33.400 --> 00:22:36.039
of my life, and it was like, I mean, come on,

389
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that's insane. That I could possibly be responsible for all

390
00:22:39.960 --> 00:22:42.319
the good things and then he could be responsible for

391
00:22:42.400 --> 00:22:44.720
all of the bad things. That just doesn't make any sense.

392
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And so I think that that has a lot to

393
00:22:48.119 --> 00:22:53.240
do with why I was able to come out of

394
00:22:53.319 --> 00:22:58.480
victim mentality. And the thing is, when you learn that

395
00:22:58.559 --> 00:23:01.960
you're the problem, you get to be the solution. So

396
00:23:02.039 --> 00:23:04.039
for some people they learn they're the problem, they use

397
00:23:04.079 --> 00:23:06.480
it as a reason to beat themselves up. To me,

398
00:23:06.839 --> 00:23:10.079
it's empowering because if I'm the problem, then I get

399
00:23:10.079 --> 00:23:12.440
to be the solution and I get to stop waiting

400
00:23:12.480 --> 00:23:13.759
for other people to change.

401
00:23:14.160 --> 00:23:17.240
Well. And it's interesting as you're talking about this. You know,

402
00:23:17.279 --> 00:23:19.440
you talked about Step four where you're really doing that

403
00:23:19.480 --> 00:23:24.039
introspective work and really accepting responsibility, which I think is

404
00:23:24.160 --> 00:23:27.240
key for anyone. But what's fascinating to me is with

405
00:23:27.319 --> 00:23:31.599
this twelfth Step program, they've got a few foundational things

406
00:23:31.640 --> 00:23:36.039
that they have included, which is normally, as far as

407
00:23:36.039 --> 00:23:40.200
I can tell, not necessarily included in most therapy or help.

408
00:23:40.799 --> 00:23:46.160
And that's this whole sense of godliness and you know

409
00:23:46.400 --> 00:23:50.079
that type of thing. And do you find that people

410
00:23:50.839 --> 00:23:54.680
kind of push away against that? Have you observed that?

411
00:23:55.319 --> 00:23:59.119
Yeah? Absolutely so some people get really turned off by

412
00:23:59.160 --> 00:24:03.240
the whole higher power, and unfortunately it is a deal

413
00:24:03.279 --> 00:24:05.559
breaker for some people. But I can also tell you

414
00:24:05.720 --> 00:24:08.759
I have met numerous people, especially people that have been

415
00:24:08.799 --> 00:24:12.759
in recovery for decades, that came in as staunch atheists

416
00:24:13.759 --> 00:24:16.720
and just by just saying I'm going to put that

417
00:24:16.799 --> 00:24:19.400
aside right now and not worry. But I'm going to

418
00:24:19.480 --> 00:24:23.279
do the behaviors of the people who have what I want.

419
00:24:23.519 --> 00:24:25.720
So if those people pray, even if I don't believe

420
00:24:25.720 --> 00:24:28.160
it works, I'm going to start praying. If those people

421
00:24:28.240 --> 00:24:30.640
hand things over to a power greater themselves, I'm going

422
00:24:30.680 --> 00:24:33.440
to do it. And they saw effects that were undeniable

423
00:24:33.519 --> 00:24:37.720
and so, and what I say to people is, it

424
00:24:38.000 --> 00:24:39.920
just has to be a power greater than you. It

425
00:24:39.960 --> 00:24:42.400
does not have to be divine. It doesn't have to

426
00:24:42.400 --> 00:24:44.200
be It could be nature, it could be universe. It

427
00:24:44.240 --> 00:24:47.839
could be the process of evolution. It could be entropy,

428
00:24:47.960 --> 00:24:50.759
it could be the ocean. Like just something that is

429
00:24:50.839 --> 00:24:53.960
more powerful than you that you can say, listen, I'm

430
00:24:53.960 --> 00:24:55.400
going to turn this over to you so that I

431
00:24:55.400 --> 00:25:00.880
can let go of responsibility. There are people who, even

432
00:25:01.039 --> 00:25:03.480
when they stay in recovery for a long time, continue

433
00:25:03.480 --> 00:25:06.160
to be staunch atheists and they find other ways. Some

434
00:25:06.200 --> 00:25:09.880
people say it's the power of the group that is

435
00:25:09.920 --> 00:25:12.279
greater than me. It is the power of the twelve

436
00:25:12.359 --> 00:25:16.200
steps that is greater than me. You know, whatever they

437
00:25:16.279 --> 00:25:20.119
need to do. There are I know in my ACA program,

438
00:25:20.160 --> 00:25:22.799
there is a movement afoot of some people that are

439
00:25:22.880 --> 00:25:26.039
working to try to find some literature that is not

440
00:25:26.200 --> 00:25:29.640
grounded in higher power that works for them and like

441
00:25:29.720 --> 00:25:33.079
all the power to them. My personal belief and experience

442
00:25:33.200 --> 00:25:35.920
based on what I've seen in my own recovery and

443
00:25:36.000 --> 00:25:38.039
all the other people I've been in both pro I've

444
00:25:38.079 --> 00:25:41.160
been in ACA for nine years, in OA for eight years.

445
00:25:42.039 --> 00:25:46.920
I don't believe that it's possible to really recover through

446
00:25:46.960 --> 00:25:50.279
the twelve steps without having some kind of a higher power.

447
00:25:50.720 --> 00:25:53.440
But I think that, you know, you really hit on

448
00:25:53.480 --> 00:25:55.759
something here. I think there's a few reasons why twelve

449
00:25:55.799 --> 00:25:58.799
step recovery is so powerful and why it worked so

450
00:25:58.880 --> 00:26:02.759
well for me whereas nothing else did before. One is

451
00:26:02.839 --> 00:26:05.359
the spiritual nature of the program, like I'm part of

452
00:26:05.359 --> 00:26:08.359
something greater than myself and I cannot deny that, and

453
00:26:08.519 --> 00:26:13.359
acknowledging that and participating in that helps me in ways

454
00:26:13.359 --> 00:26:17.200
that nothing else can. Two, I'm in a group of

455
00:26:17.240 --> 00:26:20.920
other people who have had similar experiences to me. We're

456
00:26:20.960 --> 00:26:24.440
all on different timelines in the path, but there are

457
00:26:24.440 --> 00:26:27.079
people who've been here longer than me, and they've done

458
00:26:27.119 --> 00:26:29.480
something that I've never been able to do before, which

459
00:26:29.480 --> 00:26:32.519
has changed these long standing patterns of my life that

460
00:26:32.680 --> 00:26:34.839
haven't served me so I want to know what they've

461
00:26:34.839 --> 00:26:38.039
been doing. And the third thing is that there's this

462
00:26:38.200 --> 00:26:41.400
step wise nature the twelve steps. You do them or

463
00:26:41.440 --> 00:26:44.200
you don't go one step one, step four, step seven.

464
00:26:44.279 --> 00:26:46.759
You go one, two, three, four, five, six, seventy nine, ten, eleven, twelve.

465
00:26:47.200 --> 00:26:51.279
And they've been proven for decades to work for so

466
00:26:51.759 --> 00:26:55.279
many people. And so I think, you know, those three

467
00:26:55.279 --> 00:27:00.359
things together really really help. And then we have all

468
00:27:00.400 --> 00:27:06.000
of these like slogans and tools and tips and tricks

469
00:27:06.000 --> 00:27:09.160
that just are like it seems to me they're not

470
00:27:09.279 --> 00:27:12.720
making their way out into the world because I just

471
00:27:12.759 --> 00:27:16.680
there was so much I did not know about myself

472
00:27:16.720 --> 00:27:21.599
and tell recovery. And what's crazy is that I was trying,

473
00:27:21.880 --> 00:27:24.920
and I was introspective, and I was trying to do

474
00:27:25.720 --> 00:27:29.000
whatever work was put in front of me or that

475
00:27:29.079 --> 00:27:31.599
I sought out, and it just wasn't. I mean, I

476
00:27:31.640 --> 00:27:35.519
got little dribs and drabs of stuff here and there,

477
00:27:36.000 --> 00:27:38.960
and all those therapists I work with, they were mainly

478
00:27:39.079 --> 00:27:43.359
sounding boards. I got a couple of book recommendations over

479
00:27:43.400 --> 00:27:47.880
the years, and they might occasionally ask me a fruitful question,

480
00:27:48.599 --> 00:27:52.359
but nothing to see my patterns and change them like

481
00:27:52.440 --> 00:27:53.279
recovery did.

482
00:27:53.720 --> 00:27:56.599
Yes, and then that I think that's a common experience

483
00:27:56.599 --> 00:27:59.079
for people. One of the things you said that's a

484
00:27:59.119 --> 00:28:01.799
little bit opposite of what you had said before. So

485
00:28:01.839 --> 00:28:04.519
I want to clarify for the audience because as you

486
00:28:04.559 --> 00:28:07.039
were talking about the higher power and talked about the

487
00:28:07.079 --> 00:28:11.319
fact that therefore I'm not responsible, and yet one of

488
00:28:11.319 --> 00:28:15.599
the key areas number four is to take responsibility for

489
00:28:15.839 --> 00:28:18.680
your emotions. So can you clarify what you meant by that,

490
00:28:18.920 --> 00:28:22.200
because I think so many people put everything on another

491
00:28:22.440 --> 00:28:24.359
you know, if it's a higher power, Well, this is

492
00:28:24.400 --> 00:28:26.519
God's will, this is how it's supposed to be, and

493
00:28:26.599 --> 00:28:29.400
not take the responsibility to live their lives in a

494
00:28:29.440 --> 00:28:30.160
positive way.

495
00:28:30.799 --> 00:28:33.759
Yeah. So I have a saying for recovery that I

496
00:28:33.759 --> 00:28:35.359
think will get at the heart of what you're saying.

497
00:28:35.400 --> 00:28:37.160
Is God can move mountains, but I have to bring

498
00:28:37.200 --> 00:28:37.640
a shovel.

499
00:28:38.960 --> 00:28:39.119
Right.

500
00:28:39.200 --> 00:28:43.759
God doesn't have arms and legs, so I have to

501
00:28:43.799 --> 00:28:47.720
be like God's hands and feet on the earth. So

502
00:28:48.319 --> 00:28:51.119
when it comes to feelings, in the beginning of my recovery,

503
00:28:51.160 --> 00:28:54.200
the things I handed over most frequently to God were

504
00:28:54.240 --> 00:28:56.759
my feelings and my thoughts. I didn't know that I

505
00:28:56.839 --> 00:29:00.200
ruminated and catastrophized. Even though I've always been an introspective

506
00:29:00.240 --> 00:29:04.440
person and always thought of myself as a very positive, motivating,

507
00:29:04.480 --> 00:29:08.079
inspired person, I had all kinds of negative stuff going on.

508
00:29:08.160 --> 00:29:09.519
So I was like, all right, God, I'm going to

509
00:29:09.599 --> 00:29:12.359
hand this over to you. These feelings feel like way

510
00:29:12.400 --> 00:29:15.680
too much for me. I need you to take them

511
00:29:15.720 --> 00:29:20.880
from me. And it was just this relief that I'm

512
00:29:20.960 --> 00:29:24.640
not alone. So it's not necessarily that I'm negating any

513
00:29:24.680 --> 00:29:29.599
responsibility that I have. Is that I have this glorious partner,

514
00:29:31.039 --> 00:29:33.480
my higher power that I choose to call God, that

515
00:29:33.640 --> 00:29:38.680
is helping me with these things. I felt one hundred

516
00:29:38.920 --> 00:29:42.640
percent responsible for everything around me twenty four to seven,

517
00:29:43.039 --> 00:29:45.720
three hundred and sixty five days a year in all cases.

518
00:29:45.799 --> 00:29:48.720
So I felt the need to have it together all

519
00:29:48.759 --> 00:29:52.359
the time and to never let anybody know that I

520
00:29:52.400 --> 00:29:55.599
didn't know something, that I wasn't capable of something, or

521
00:29:55.640 --> 00:29:58.319
that I had flaws. And I was able to let

522
00:29:58.359 --> 00:30:00.839
go of that cause I'm like, I like, I literally

523
00:30:00.920 --> 00:30:04.960
can't do that, you know, And so does that answer

524
00:30:05.039 --> 00:30:05.559
your question?

525
00:30:05.880 --> 00:30:06.640
That does that?

526
00:30:06.680 --> 00:30:06.880
Does?

527
00:30:06.920 --> 00:30:10.920
It's show? Number four is the responsibility part? What's number five?

528
00:30:12.000 --> 00:30:15.920
So five is admitted to ourselves to another human being

529
00:30:16.160 --> 00:30:19.880
and a higher power the exact nature of our wrongs.

530
00:30:20.559 --> 00:30:23.799
So we share what came up in this inventory with

531
00:30:23.839 --> 00:30:26.119
someone else. So we're not just sharing it with ourselves.

532
00:30:26.160 --> 00:30:28.480
We're not keeping it in the dark. Of course, our

533
00:30:28.559 --> 00:30:32.079
higher power knows it all anyway. But to share that

534
00:30:32.160 --> 00:30:34.079
and then to share it with another human being, and

535
00:30:34.160 --> 00:30:38.440
I some people are absolutely terrified of this. To me,

536
00:30:39.880 --> 00:30:42.400
it one of the things we say in ACA. It's

537
00:30:42.440 --> 00:30:46.759
the shamebuster because when you sit and you tell another

538
00:30:46.799 --> 00:30:49.160
person the things that you think are the worst things

539
00:30:49.200 --> 00:30:52.440
you have ever done in your entire life, and they say,

540
00:30:52.480 --> 00:30:57.599
I see you, I get you, I love you. There

541
00:30:57.640 --> 00:30:59.680
is nothing like that. I will tell you. The third

542
00:30:59.759 --> 00:31:03.519
time that I did the twelve Steps, I shared something

543
00:31:03.599 --> 00:31:07.440
which I'm comfortable sharing here and now, that I did

544
00:31:07.440 --> 00:31:10.000
when I was twelve years old. My little brother was

545
00:31:10.079 --> 00:31:12.000
pap was four, My older brother was a year and

546
00:31:12.039 --> 00:31:13.559
a half older than mean. Me and my older brother

547
00:31:13.599 --> 00:31:16.559
and another kid. I don't know what we were doing,

548
00:31:16.599 --> 00:31:18.119
but we took my little brother. We put him in

549
00:31:18.160 --> 00:31:20.000
a sleeping bag, rolled it up, put him in a closet,

550
00:31:20.039 --> 00:31:22.039
shut the door, and then we hid from him like

551
00:31:22.079 --> 00:31:25.400
we were afraid of him, and he practically suffocated. And

552
00:31:25.440 --> 00:31:28.519
I still have some pretty strong feelings about how horrible

553
00:31:28.559 --> 00:31:31.200
that was to me, that his hands down the worst

554
00:31:31.200 --> 00:31:34.079
thing I have ever done in my entire life. And

555
00:31:34.160 --> 00:31:36.720
I can't even imagine the impact on my little brother.

556
00:31:37.359 --> 00:31:44.079
So I fell on the floor sobby the third time

557
00:31:44.240 --> 00:31:46.640
that I did the twelve steps, and I had shared

558
00:31:46.640 --> 00:31:48.920
this twice before, but I never had this effect. I

559
00:31:48.920 --> 00:31:52.519
fell on the floor sobby and my friend that I

560
00:31:52.599 --> 00:31:55.400
was sharing this with stood above me and pointed down

561
00:31:55.400 --> 00:31:59.960
it to me and she said, Barb, God loves you.

562
00:32:00.519 --> 00:32:04.039
God loves you no more and no less right now.

563
00:32:04.079 --> 00:32:06.000
And I got to tell you, doctor Doug.

564
00:32:06.240 --> 00:32:09.920
I felt like I was a gaping wound and the

565
00:32:10.039 --> 00:32:14.359
love of God was poured into that gaping wound and

566
00:32:14.519 --> 00:32:20.200
I was healed in a way that nothing could ever

567
00:32:20.640 --> 00:32:22.119
have done.

568
00:32:22.240 --> 00:32:26.160
And then I'm going to jump forward to step eight,

569
00:32:26.359 --> 00:32:32.880
which is where we make amends to people except when

570
00:32:33.200 --> 00:32:36.440
to do so could cause harm to them or others.

571
00:32:37.880 --> 00:32:40.720
And a lot of people are really terrified about this too,

572
00:32:40.839 --> 00:32:43.200
and so I want to start by saying, we get

573
00:32:43.240 --> 00:32:46.039
to be considered the others. So I'm not going to

574
00:32:46.039 --> 00:32:49.079
put myself in harm's way, Like if somebody was abusive

575
00:32:49.119 --> 00:32:50.920
to me, I'm not going to go to them and

576
00:32:50.960 --> 00:32:52.799
make amends to them in person if I'm going to

577
00:32:52.880 --> 00:32:55.559
put myself at risk, So I have to make some

578
00:32:55.680 --> 00:33:00.160
kind of indirect amends. What I found when I I

579
00:33:00.200 --> 00:33:04.440
made amends for things was that I felt like I

580
00:33:04.640 --> 00:33:10.599
cleaned that stuff off of my soul. So I'll give

581
00:33:10.640 --> 00:33:13.480
you an example. There was a woman, a young woman

582
00:33:13.559 --> 00:33:15.559
when I was in high school that I bullied. I

583
00:33:15.559 --> 00:33:18.400
didn't even have an awareness that that was bullying until

584
00:33:18.440 --> 00:33:20.960
I did the Twelve Steps. And there was another woman

585
00:33:21.000 --> 00:33:23.000
that I bullied in the workplace when I was a

586
00:33:23.039 --> 00:33:27.519
young adult. And I couldn't find these people, and I

587
00:33:27.640 --> 00:33:29.720
happened to I think this was a higher power moment.

588
00:33:29.799 --> 00:33:32.960
Run into a guy who was a retired private detective

589
00:33:33.599 --> 00:33:36.160
and I went to him and I said, John, I've

590
00:33:36.200 --> 00:33:39.039
tried Google, I've tried Facebook. I can't find these women.

591
00:33:39.119 --> 00:33:41.880
Do have any suggestions for how I might find these

592
00:33:41.880 --> 00:33:44.119
people so I can make amends to them? And he goes, well,

593
00:33:45.519 --> 00:33:47.720
I didn't. You didn't know this, but I'm also in

594
00:33:47.759 --> 00:33:50.519
twelve step recovery, and so I know what you're doing

595
00:33:50.599 --> 00:33:52.960
I'm happy to do it for free for you. And

596
00:33:53.000 --> 00:33:54.759
I was like, oh my god. And he said, the

597
00:33:54.799 --> 00:33:57.519
only thing is if they don't want to hear from you,

598
00:33:57.519 --> 00:33:59.319
you have to take that as an answer. And I

599
00:33:59.319 --> 00:34:01.759
was like absolutely. I said, well, here's the thing. If

600
00:34:01.799 --> 00:34:05.519
they don't want to hear from me directly, then ask

601
00:34:05.680 --> 00:34:07.640
if they would be willing to allow me to write

602
00:34:07.640 --> 00:34:11.599
a letter that you give to them. So in forty

603
00:34:11.639 --> 00:34:15.000
eight hours he came back to me dog. One woman

604
00:34:15.239 --> 00:34:17.159
gave the phone her phone number, and the other one

605
00:34:17.199 --> 00:34:21.440
said give me a letter through doctor Doug. So I

606
00:34:21.519 --> 00:34:25.000
gave him the letter on a Friday, and on Saturday,

607
00:34:25.119 --> 00:34:28.119
I called the woman the phone number. I got her voicemail.

608
00:34:28.800 --> 00:34:32.559
When I hung up that phone, I started sobbing. I

609
00:34:32.559 --> 00:34:35.440
didn't even know that was coming. I just sobbed and

610
00:34:35.480 --> 00:34:40.039
sobbed and sobbed, and it was a sobbing of relief

611
00:34:40.280 --> 00:34:42.800
and of gratitude that that's when I had that feeling

612
00:34:42.880 --> 00:34:44.840
of I cleaned it off of my soul. And I

613
00:34:44.920 --> 00:34:48.480
was working with my sponsor and overreaders Anonymous at the time,

614
00:34:49.480 --> 00:34:53.239
and he said to me, Barb, no wonder you've lost weight,

615
00:34:53.599 --> 00:34:59.079
because you've lost weight. You've lost the weight of this burden. Now,

616
00:34:59.159 --> 00:35:04.920
I had no idea that that those feelings were inside

617
00:35:05.000 --> 00:35:08.519
of me until I made that phone call, which, by

618
00:35:08.559 --> 00:35:11.000
the way, I got her voicemail. I did not get

619
00:35:11.159 --> 00:35:15.840
her in person, and she never called me back. But

620
00:35:16.000 --> 00:35:22.159
I got the release of taking responsibility for what I

621
00:35:22.480 --> 00:35:26.760
did to enough to harm another human being and say

622
00:35:27.079 --> 00:35:30.719
that was wrong. I never should have done that. You

623
00:35:30.760 --> 00:35:33.800
didn't deserve to be treated that way, and I am sorry,

624
00:35:34.239 --> 00:35:39.440
and I have spent my adult life making up for

625
00:35:39.519 --> 00:35:44.320
it in these ways, and like, I've never done anything

626
00:35:44.440 --> 00:35:46.280
like that outside of twelve step recovery.

627
00:35:47.119 --> 00:35:49.519
Wow, that's amazing. And you know, we could go into

628
00:35:49.559 --> 00:35:52.079
all of these different steps, but I think you've hit

629
00:35:52.119 --> 00:35:54.360
on some of the real important ones. But I want

630
00:35:54.360 --> 00:35:56.239
to get to what you actually do as far as

631
00:35:56.320 --> 00:36:00.239
boundaries coaching. Let's let's talk about boundaries and what is

632
00:36:00.239 --> 00:36:03.199
it that keeps people from setting boundaries? And what are

633
00:36:03.239 --> 00:36:05.920
the healthy boundaries that we should set? And then one

634
00:36:05.960 --> 00:36:08.880
are some of the unhealthy boundaries that we tend to set.

635
00:36:09.519 --> 00:36:13.800
Yeah, so the main thing that keeps people is feelings,

636
00:36:14.000 --> 00:36:16.239
so they feel guilty and shameful. Those are the two

637
00:36:16.320 --> 00:36:20.760
most common feelings that stop people so either they stop

638
00:36:20.840 --> 00:36:24.119
them from setting boundaries at all, or they cave when

639
00:36:24.159 --> 00:36:25.800
they go to try to set a boundary because they're

640
00:36:25.840 --> 00:36:28.159
so riddled with guilt and shame that they can't take it.

641
00:36:29.119 --> 00:36:33.239
And for me, what I used to think when I

642
00:36:33.320 --> 00:36:35.960
was back in my codependent days was that I was nice.

643
00:36:36.000 --> 00:36:38.119
I'm a nice person, That's why I help people. And

644
00:36:38.159 --> 00:36:40.480
when I got in recovery, I learned that I was

645
00:36:40.519 --> 00:36:44.199
a people pleaser. Didn't know that, and that I was

646
00:36:44.320 --> 00:36:47.760
really doing it because I wanted people's approval. And technically,

647
00:36:47.800 --> 00:36:50.239
for me, it was that I didn't want their disapproval,

648
00:36:50.280 --> 00:36:52.199
so I didn't want people to think I was a

649
00:36:52.199 --> 00:36:55.760
bad person. And to me, a bad person was someone

650
00:36:55.760 --> 00:37:01.480
who says no and is unhelpful. And so for me,

651
00:37:01.719 --> 00:37:05.679
that antidote to the guilt and shame isn't a quick fix.

652
00:37:05.840 --> 00:37:08.639
It's a little bit more long term, and that is

653
00:37:09.480 --> 00:37:12.400
that what I do is I start all my clients

654
00:37:12.480 --> 00:37:14.920
by having them go through an exercise to identify their

655
00:37:14.960 --> 00:37:19.360
top five values, and by knowing their values, what matters,

656
00:37:19.400 --> 00:37:24.480
what's important, and setting boundaries in alignment with their values.

657
00:37:25.280 --> 00:37:29.599
When we start doing that, we get into integrity with ourselves.

658
00:37:29.760 --> 00:37:36.320
Integrity is another word for wholeness, and we realize, like,

659
00:37:36.519 --> 00:37:39.679
I'm doing this because it brings me in alignment with

660
00:37:39.760 --> 00:37:42.199
my highest good, Like I wouldn't have that set of

661
00:37:42.320 --> 00:37:44.559
values if it wasn't for my highest good. So let

662
00:37:44.559 --> 00:37:48.840
me use health as an example. If you if health

663
00:37:48.920 --> 00:37:52.360
is a strong value of yours, you're going to set

664
00:37:52.400 --> 00:37:55.480
boundaries in your life such that you support and promote

665
00:37:55.480 --> 00:37:58.320
your health. So that might mean things like I set

666
00:37:58.320 --> 00:38:01.559
aside time to go to exercise class or to do

667
00:38:01.679 --> 00:38:05.800
yoga in the morning, or I pay for a meditation teacher,

668
00:38:06.440 --> 00:38:11.480
or I buy equipment, or I avoid going to brunch

669
00:38:11.559 --> 00:38:17.800
buffets in eating volumes of food. So if somebody judges

670
00:38:17.960 --> 00:38:23.119
you for doing things that are in alignment with your health,

671
00:38:24.400 --> 00:38:27.719
it doesn't matter to you as much because you know

672
00:38:28.239 --> 00:38:31.039
I'm doing this because it matters to me and it

673
00:38:31.119 --> 00:38:35.079
supports and promotes my health. So in the beginning, when

674
00:38:35.119 --> 00:38:37.599
you first start doing it and first start setting boundaries,

675
00:38:37.639 --> 00:38:40.000
it's difficult. I would say that me being in a

676
00:38:40.000 --> 00:38:43.199
food recovery program helped me a lot with my boundaries

677
00:38:43.639 --> 00:38:46.639
because there's a lot of food pushers in our society.

678
00:38:46.760 --> 00:38:50.280
Oh yeah, people are really concerned with what you're eating

679
00:38:50.320 --> 00:38:53.440
and not eating. And I so in the beginning, I

680
00:38:53.440 --> 00:38:55.320
would say to people, I don't eat sugar, and then

681
00:38:55.320 --> 00:38:56.679
they were like, well do you eat fruit? And do

682
00:38:56.679 --> 00:38:57.760
you eat this? And do you eat that? And I

683
00:38:57.800 --> 00:38:59.559
was like, I don't really want to answer those questions.

684
00:38:59.599 --> 00:39:01.400
So then I started saying I don't eat sweets, and

685
00:39:01.440 --> 00:39:05.239
the more questions, and I finally started saying I have

686
00:39:05.320 --> 00:39:09.159
food issues. And funny enough, when I say that, nobody probes,

687
00:39:09.199 --> 00:39:11.719
because nowadays we've got people that are gluten free, people

688
00:39:11.800 --> 00:39:14.840
that are vegan, people that are paid blah blah, but

689
00:39:15.159 --> 00:39:18.559
nobody asks. So I had to realize what's my boundary

690
00:39:18.639 --> 00:39:21.559
in term of what I'm going to offer people for information,

691
00:39:21.840 --> 00:39:24.599
Like I get to decide what I tell people and

692
00:39:24.760 --> 00:39:26.880
how much I let people in. And I also had

693
00:39:26.920 --> 00:39:28.880
to learn to say no, no, thank you, no, I've

694
00:39:28.960 --> 00:39:31.880
said no, please stop asking me, you know, like I

695
00:39:32.079 --> 00:39:34.519
had to. I had to get better for my own

696
00:39:34.679 --> 00:39:37.599
health and if people get offended by that, like I'm

697
00:39:37.639 --> 00:39:41.159
going to die if I continue to eat compulsively. So

698
00:39:41.360 --> 00:39:44.000
I don't want to die, and that's more important to

699
00:39:44.079 --> 00:39:48.000
me than what you think of me. And so that

700
00:39:48.320 --> 00:39:51.119
the guilt and the shame are the main reasons that

701
00:39:51.280 --> 00:39:54.800
people stop because they have these ideas like, for example,

702
00:39:55.400 --> 00:39:58.000
that I'm hurting someone by setting a boundary. And I

703
00:39:58.199 --> 00:40:01.559
think something I also learned in recovery was there's a

704
00:40:01.599 --> 00:40:04.599
difference between harming someone and hurting them. So it might

705
00:40:04.760 --> 00:40:06.639
hurt you to use a needle to take a splinter

706
00:40:06.679 --> 00:40:08.440
out of your finger, but it's not going to harm you.

707
00:40:08.719 --> 00:40:12.519
In fact, it's going to heal you. It might hurt

708
00:40:12.639 --> 00:40:15.000
someone's feelings to set a boundary with them, it's not

709
00:40:15.199 --> 00:40:19.639
going to harm them. It might heal the relationship because

710
00:40:19.679 --> 00:40:22.039
you're being honest with them about what's okay and what's

711
00:40:22.079 --> 00:40:26.320
not okay. There are some relationships you could actually lose

712
00:40:26.360 --> 00:40:28.639
by setting boundaries, and I am of the opinion that

713
00:40:28.719 --> 00:40:30.039
you probably should lose them.

714
00:40:30.079 --> 00:40:33.800
If that's yes, I was going to say. So many

715
00:40:33.920 --> 00:40:37.039
times we surround ourselves with people, and you know, you

716
00:40:37.519 --> 00:40:43.639
comment about original values and boundaries set based on those values,

717
00:40:43.719 --> 00:40:47.599
and then also boundaries that we tend to set because

718
00:40:47.639 --> 00:40:49.760
we think that's what we need to do. So in

719
00:40:49.920 --> 00:40:53.280
one case, we are literally the effect of our environment,

720
00:40:53.760 --> 00:40:57.719
and the other side of the side of the coin

721
00:40:58.000 --> 00:41:02.239
is that you literally are in control of your environment. Yeah,

722
00:41:02.280 --> 00:41:04.679
and you find a lot of people tend to be

723
00:41:05.280 --> 00:41:08.559
at the effect where they're setting boundaries because that's what

724
00:41:08.679 --> 00:41:09.599
they think people need.

725
00:41:10.480 --> 00:41:13.559
Well, I think that when we're at the effect of

726
00:41:13.840 --> 00:41:16.840
life that is victim mentality, that is the belief that

727
00:41:16.960 --> 00:41:19.239
the world is acting on me and then I don't

728
00:41:19.360 --> 00:41:22.239
have a say and I can't have an impact. So

729
00:41:22.400 --> 00:41:24.480
when we like, one way we say an aca is

730
00:41:24.519 --> 00:41:27.679
we become an actor rather than a reactor in our life,

731
00:41:27.800 --> 00:41:31.679
or react on life rather than reacting to it. So

732
00:41:32.039 --> 00:41:34.440
it is true that there are sometimes you're going to

733
00:41:34.480 --> 00:41:37.199
send a boundary, set a boundary as a reaction, and

734
00:41:37.320 --> 00:41:39.239
I think that would be like if something just came

735
00:41:39.280 --> 00:41:42.320
at you and you weren't expecting it. But most of

736
00:41:42.440 --> 00:41:47.000
the time boundaries are pro active. And I think you know,

737
00:41:47.159 --> 00:41:50.360
a myth about boundaries is that there are walls. And

738
00:41:50.480 --> 00:41:53.039
I will say, like, if you have a violent or

739
00:41:53.199 --> 00:41:56.840
toxic or inebriated person in your life, you need a

740
00:41:56.920 --> 00:41:59.719
wall with that person. So in cases like that, yes,

741
00:42:00.000 --> 00:42:04.840
boundary as the wall. Most of the time, boundaries are

742
00:42:04.920 --> 00:42:07.800
not light walls. They're really flexible. And one metaphor that

743
00:42:07.920 --> 00:42:09.679
I use, the which many people do, is that a

744
00:42:09.760 --> 00:42:12.000
boundary is like having a fence with a gate in it,

745
00:42:12.559 --> 00:42:15.840
and the gate opens from the inside only In other words,

746
00:42:15.960 --> 00:42:19.400
you're the gatekeeper, and if someone is trampling on your property,

747
00:42:19.480 --> 00:42:22.559
it's because you let them out in a man, I'm

748
00:42:22.599 --> 00:42:26.880
with the fence, you let them in, and so you're

749
00:42:27.000 --> 00:42:29.960
in charge. If they're trampling on your property, then it's

750
00:42:30.039 --> 00:42:32.039
up to you to do something about it. You have

751
00:42:32.239 --> 00:42:35.519
to provide some kind of a consequence, like what are

752
00:42:35.599 --> 00:42:38.679
you going to do if they don't honor your boundary?

753
00:42:39.239 --> 00:42:42.440
And so often you know, people don't honor a boundary

754
00:42:42.480 --> 00:42:44.639
because they don't believe you because you've never done it,

755
00:42:44.840 --> 00:42:47.880
or they forgot, or maybe they have horrible boundaries themselves,

756
00:42:48.679 --> 00:42:51.559
and so it's really your job to enforce them. And

757
00:42:51.639 --> 00:42:54.119
so for in some circumstances, all you're going to do

758
00:42:54.280 --> 00:42:56.000
is just repeat it and they'll be like, oh okay.

759
00:42:56.719 --> 00:42:59.800
But sometimes we have to change something. So all given

760
00:42:59.800 --> 00:43:03.360
and example probably everybody kind of identify with. Nowadays, it's

761
00:43:03.519 --> 00:43:07.280
really uncommon for people to smoke in other people's houses,

762
00:43:08.119 --> 00:43:10.760
so we don't typically have to have a rule that

763
00:43:11.000 --> 00:43:13.920
we stay out loud no smoking in my house. So

764
00:43:14.000 --> 00:43:15.840
if somebody walks in your house and they light up

765
00:43:15.840 --> 00:43:19.800
a cigarette. You might say, hey, we don't allow smoking

766
00:43:20.440 --> 00:43:23.760
in our house. And if they continue to smoke and

767
00:43:23.800 --> 00:43:26.199
you do nothing, it's not really a boundary because you're

768
00:43:26.239 --> 00:43:29.559
not doing anything about it. But if it's an actual boundary,

769
00:43:29.639 --> 00:43:33.280
then the consequence would be that you ask them to

770
00:43:33.360 --> 00:43:35.880
put it out and not smoke again. And if they

771
00:43:36.039 --> 00:43:38.199
won't put it out, then you walk them out the

772
00:43:38.280 --> 00:43:41.599
door and perhaps you say, I'm afraid you're not going

773
00:43:41.679 --> 00:43:44.840
to be invited back again because you can't honor my

774
00:43:45.039 --> 00:43:47.119
request to not smoke in my house. Like that's a

775
00:43:47.159 --> 00:43:51.800
pretty obvious one that most people can understand. But it's

776
00:43:51.920 --> 00:43:55.000
the same with other things. And you know where it

777
00:43:55.119 --> 00:44:00.880
gets tricky is where we're actually we're telling ourselves this

778
00:44:01.039 --> 00:44:04.800
is my boundary, but we're actually trying to control other people.

779
00:44:04.920 --> 00:44:07.719
So I'll give you an example of my own recovery.

780
00:44:08.199 --> 00:44:10.679
So when I got into recovery and I started building boundaries,

781
00:44:10.800 --> 00:44:12.800
I thought that I could just say this is my

782
00:44:12.880 --> 00:44:15.800
boundary and then people would respect it. So my older

783
00:44:15.920 --> 00:44:19.360
brother is a very loud person, and he like whives

784
00:44:19.400 --> 00:44:22.320
and breathes politics. And even though he and I agree politically,

785
00:44:22.880 --> 00:44:24.960
I'm done. I don't want to talk about it. I

786
00:44:25.159 --> 00:44:28.440
don't participate in the news and politics because it's not

787
00:44:28.480 --> 00:44:30.199
good for my mental health. So I thought I could

788
00:44:30.239 --> 00:44:33.280
just say, hey, I really you know your loudness is

789
00:44:33.400 --> 00:44:35.880
hurting my ears. Can you talk quiet? He's not capable.

790
00:44:36.920 --> 00:44:39.639
I'm really not interested in talking about politics. Let's talk

791
00:44:39.679 --> 00:44:42.920
about something else. He's literally not capable, doctor Doug. He's

792
00:44:43.079 --> 00:44:46.599
just not And so I realized, oh, I'm the one

793
00:44:46.800 --> 00:44:49.760
that doesn't want to talk politics. I can't turn him

794
00:44:49.840 --> 00:44:52.320
into a quiet person. I can't turn him into a

795
00:44:52.400 --> 00:44:55.679
person that doesn't talk politics. So what am I going

796
00:44:55.800 --> 00:44:58.679
to do about it? Well, what I did was I

797
00:44:58.760 --> 00:45:00.800
spent less time with him, So that meant I saw

798
00:45:00.880 --> 00:45:04.239
him less frequently, and I saw him for shorter periods

799
00:45:04.239 --> 00:45:07.599
of time because I literally can't control him. I cannot

800
00:45:07.679 --> 00:45:10.440
turn him into a person that talks quietly and doesn't

801
00:45:10.480 --> 00:45:15.119
talk politics. And so that's an example of in the beginning,

802
00:45:15.159 --> 00:45:18.039
I was trying to control him by saying talk quietly

803
00:45:18.159 --> 00:45:21.800
and don't talk politics. That's not possible. So then what

804
00:45:21.920 --> 00:45:24.159
am I going to do? And so I can let

805
00:45:24.400 --> 00:45:29.199
go of being annoyed at him and resentful of him,

806
00:45:29.239 --> 00:45:31.599
because he talks so loud, he talks politics all the time,

807
00:45:31.639 --> 00:45:34.280
because that's who he is. I get to accept him,

808
00:45:34.840 --> 00:45:37.760
and as the Serenity prayer says, I get to accept

809
00:45:37.880 --> 00:45:41.039
the things I cannot change, and I need the courage

810
00:45:41.119 --> 00:45:43.320
to change the things I can. So, Mike, I didn't

811
00:45:43.440 --> 00:45:47.800
tell him I'm going to stop coming less frequently and

812
00:45:47.920 --> 00:45:50.119
for shorter periods of time. I could have. I could

813
00:45:50.159 --> 00:45:54.039
have said, if you don't stop talking politics, I'm not

814
00:45:54.119 --> 00:45:56.760
going to come around as much, but I chose not

815
00:45:56.920 --> 00:46:00.199
to because that's what I wanted. I didn't feel I

816
00:46:00.280 --> 00:46:03.480
needed to explain, and I I'm pretty clear he's incapable

817
00:46:03.519 --> 00:46:04.519
of not talking about.

818
00:46:04.360 --> 00:46:07.840
Pol Oh wow, that's a great example. And as we

819
00:46:07.920 --> 00:46:10.519
get to the clothes here that this has been amazing,

820
00:46:10.679 --> 00:46:11.960
time goes by so quickly.

821
00:46:12.039 --> 00:46:12.920
It just does.

822
00:46:13.079 --> 00:46:16.320
It does. I can't flourish me. It floors me. So

823
00:46:17.320 --> 00:46:19.440
if there was a message you really want to share

824
00:46:19.480 --> 00:46:22.039
with the audience, just in a short message, what would

825
00:46:22.079 --> 00:46:22.280
that be?

826
00:46:23.320 --> 00:46:26.199
So it would be keep the focus on yourself, because

827
00:46:26.239 --> 00:46:28.239
you're the only thing you can control. And I have

828
00:46:28.440 --> 00:46:31.599
four suggested ways to do that. One ask yourself, what

829
00:46:31.760 --> 00:46:34.119
do I want or need in this situation. I never

830
00:46:34.199 --> 00:46:37.840
did that too. Mind your own business, let other people

831
00:46:37.920 --> 00:46:41.559
live their lives. Stop giving on solicit advice. Three, ask

832
00:46:41.679 --> 00:46:44.760
yourself what might I have been doing to contribute to

833
00:46:44.800 --> 00:46:48.159
the situation and or what might I do differently and recover?

834
00:46:48.360 --> 00:46:51.239
We call that what is my part? And number four,

835
00:46:51.960 --> 00:46:56.480
take really good care of yourself. People with poor boundaries

836
00:46:56.599 --> 00:46:59.519
are famous for neglecting themselves and trying to pour from

837
00:46:59.519 --> 00:47:02.599
an empty cup. I want you to pour from the

838
00:47:02.920 --> 00:47:05.239
overflow and the only way you're going to have an

839
00:47:05.280 --> 00:47:09.039
overflow is if you fill your cup first. It is

840
00:47:09.239 --> 00:47:13.280
not selfish to take care of yourself, it's self preservation.

841
00:47:15.159 --> 00:47:18.360
Love it, Barb, thanks so much for this has just

842
00:47:18.480 --> 00:47:20.920
been fascinating for me and I'm sure for the folks

843
00:47:20.960 --> 00:47:23.280
that are going to listen to it. So I really

844
00:47:23.360 --> 00:47:25.440
appreciate you being on the show. How do people find you?

845
00:47:25.559 --> 00:47:26.000
Real quick?

846
00:47:26.599 --> 00:47:28.840
So, my favorite place to hang on on social media

847
00:47:29.039 --> 00:47:33.320
is Instagram. I'm in Higher Power Coaching. My podcast you

848
00:47:33.440 --> 00:47:35.840
can find on any podcast outlet, or you can go

849
00:47:35.920 --> 00:47:39.480
to fragmented to whole dot com. And if you go

850
00:47:39.719 --> 00:47:42.480
to Instagram, every link to me. Whether you want to

851
00:47:42.519 --> 00:47:44.400
do a boundaries call with me find out about my

852
00:47:44.519 --> 00:47:46.639
coaching and that sort of thing is all linked in

853
00:47:46.760 --> 00:47:48.079
the bio on Instagram.

854
00:47:49.320 --> 00:47:52.880
Great, hey, thank you so much, and folks, thanks for listening.

855
00:47:53.360 --> 00:47:55.920
I hope you really enjoyed this and reach out if

856
00:47:56.480 --> 00:47:59.280
this is an area that I've never come across before.

857
00:47:59.440 --> 00:48:04.320
So this sounds really interesting and I hope people will

858
00:48:04.400 --> 00:48:07.039
reach out and see if there's a solution that they

859
00:48:07.119 --> 00:48:10.119
haven't been able to achieve yet. So anyway, folks that

860
00:48:10.280 --> 00:48:14.000
doctor Doug have a wonderful week saying no must stay,

861
00:48:14.920 --> 00:48:15.559
I must stay