Fiction: Transformative Power in the Imagined Realm

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This program is designed to provide general
information with regards to the subject matters covered.

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This information is given with the understanding
that neither the hosts, guests,

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sponsors, or station are engaged in
rendering any specific and personal medical, financial,

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legal counseling, professional service, or
any advice. You should seek the

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services of competent professionals before applying or
trying any suggested ideas. At the end

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of the day, it's not about
what you have or even what you've accomplished.

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It's about what you've done with those
accomplishments. It's about who you've lifted

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up, who you've made better.
It's about what you've given back. Denzel

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Washington, welcome to inspire Vision.
Our sole purpose is to elevate the lives

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of others and to inspire you to
do the same. Doctor Andy, how

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are you doing. I am doing
great, deceeeding. It's great to talk

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with you. Hey, it's great
to have you on the show. I

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love to hear this story about how
as I'm interviewing people, how they actually

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got to the point they are where
they've decided to write a book, or

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they're doing things to help other people. And in your case, you're really

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helping kids. So I'd love for
you to share with the audience you know

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a little bit about yourself, and
don't be shy. You know the achievements

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that you've done and how you've reached
this point to where you're looking to really

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help these kids and writing your book. I appreciate the opportunity to do that

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well. I am a longtime educator, having dedicated my life to children for

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forty years as a teacher, a
college professor, and a school leader.

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In fact, twenty eight of those
years I ran school districts in Southwest Ohio,

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where I'm from, and throughout all
of that career I worked really hard

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to try to make sure I put
kids first in every decision we made,

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from the financial choices we made to
how we chose curriculum to whatever was going

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to work out best for kids.
I was pretty lucky I got. I

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won several state national awards for my
work. I was especially always interested in

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literacy. That was my primary concern
because I strongly believe that if we can

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get kids on the roads to to
read read correctly early, most everything else

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kind of works out in the long
line. So that's always been a passion

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of mine. In fact, it's
continued to be a passion even beyond,

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uh, beyond my retirement a couple
of years ago. So I transitioned very

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easily from that to the idea of
telling some stories. And and this,

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in fact, we're talking about my
fifth published novel, and all of my

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novels are all featured teachers as heroes. I don't think that story gets told

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enough. And all of my real
life heroes have always been teachers. So

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I thought, if I'm going to
create craft fiction, then the heroes of

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those stories should be very much like
the teachers and the administrators that I worked

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with over forty years. And that's
how I got to the books, the

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books that we're talking about today.
Okay, And you know it's interesting as

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you're talking about that, something's come
to my mind. Yesterday I got a

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call from one of my sons,
and I'm very very focused on education for

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kids, and he had called me. He's got some very young children and

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he's saying, Dad, you know
what, trying to figure out the school

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district, what's going to be best
for them. And we had a long

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chat about that because when they were
young, I actually put them in the

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Montsori School and one of the things
that is I've looked at education and learning

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and how kids learn. One of
the things that I've realized is that they

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all have different learning styles. In
particular. I'm sure you're so aware of

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this. I had one son that
was very much a spatial visual learner.

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But because he was spatial, they
were all saying, well, you know,

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he's got add and so on and
so forth. I got a kind

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of on medication and that, and
It's like, no, that's not going

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to happen, but I'm going to
I bought him a palm pilot and he

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was able to focus on a pump
pilot. He took that to school.

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I let all the teachers know,
you know what, control them with that

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pom pilot, which sometimes they found
difficult. But I said, but he's

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going to use that, and you
know, it made the biggest difference for

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him to get through school. So
I'd love for you to talk a little

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bit because we're in to talk you
know a lot about children, how are

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they learning? Sometimes they're getting involved
with drugs. I mean, you see

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all of these things going on.
What's your experience as far as learning styles

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and how on earth do teachers who
are kind of given a curriculum to teach,

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get to the point where they can
be focused on each of those children

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individually and somehow make sure that their
learning styles are being met. That's a

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very That's an excellent question, Doug, and it points out how really actually

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challenging the job of teaching is most
people have no idea what kinds of skills,

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what kind of strategies to kind of
knowledge. A teacher has to have

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to be a fourth grade teacher,
for example, and be sitting in a

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room with twenty five kids of which
there are at least four or five different

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learning styles sitting in front of her, and it has to for him and

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have to be able to sort out
and figure out how to make that work.

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The best teachers I knew did that. I'm not sure that any of

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them did it with ease, but
they made it look easy because they were

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both that knowledgeable. So the answer
to your question, I think is,

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first you have to have teachers who
really know their stuff. If you're reading

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teacher, you have to really know
how to teach reading. If you're a

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math teacher, you have to love
math, know the different ways that kids

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can learn to math, and that
everybody doesn't learn math the same way,

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so you have to know that subject. The second thing is that you do

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have to be knowledgeable about different ways
to reach kids. Teachers are getting better

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to that. When I went to
school, here's an example. When I

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went to school, you read a
both papers to write a book report.

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Well, my granddaughter is doing something
similar. In this case. They were

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reading Macbeth, but instead of doing
a report on McBeth, they had like

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fifteen different ways that they could give
evidence of what they learned from Macbeth.

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They could do a reality show,
they could do a commercial, they could

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do a power point. You know. So teachers are starting to recognize all

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of that. I have, however, left out the single most important thing,

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and that is it has to It
matters a great deal that kids understand

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you care about them. You know. They were saying and averything that kids

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don't care how much you know until
they know how much you care. The

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best teachers I worked with were ones
that went home at night agonizing over why

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didn't I get that last kid he
needed to be He came home at night

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trying to figure out, well,
what else can I do to reach these

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kids? Because they cared about the
fact that. As I told my teachers

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many times, I said, you
understand that for thirty of these kids sitting

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in front of you, the work
that you do, maybe that may mean

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the difference between a life in prison
or a life that's productive in society because

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they don't have the family support that
they need. So we need to provide

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that for them. Here I saw
many teachers work that magic over and over

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again. But it's very hard work, and it's very skilled work, and

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that's often overlooked today. So where
did you teach? I actually started teaching

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in a small school in rural Ohio. I'm I'm from Ohio. I'm from

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Okay. People that know that I'm
from southwest Ohio, now close to Cincinnati.

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I grew up in Cincinnati, but
this is actually about one hundred and

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twenty one hundred and thirty miles from
that in a very rural school. I

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grew up in the city. For
rural school, I had kids that came

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off the farm, came into my
classrooms to work, you know. So

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it was a very different experience.
And I and but since then, my

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experiences have included urban center, urban
areas, rural areas of suburbs, kind

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of the whole range I've had to
present to work with over those forty years.

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Well, and you know, it's
interesting my kids grew up in different

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states. California was one of them. I know it was another one,

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uh and in Utah. But what
I find interesting is there's so much controversy

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going on right now with schools and
with curriculum, and you know, you

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you commented about the teachers how they
really need to be focused and really prepared

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on doing that. What what is
your thought And I'm asking you some questions

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that are way out of line,
maybe, but what are your thoughts about

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the controversy that's going on right now
about the school the curriculum, the teachers,

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that type of thing. I think, first of well, I want

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to put a caveat out. I've
been retired for ten years, so I

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am not merely as knowledgeable as involved
in the day to day happenings of the

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schools as I used to be.
I'm pretty much like everybody else watching what

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comes what we learned about from the
news. But I will be honest,

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I'm very very concerned some of the
controversy, for lack of a better term,

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that are up now. The same
thing occurred when I was in school,

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and what I found in many,
many of those cases the people who

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were pushing a particular agenda. It
wasn't really about kids at all. They

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had a particular point of view that
they wanted to make sure got got across.

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And I know this makes sund you
and I'm not saying this about the

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current individual, but I had people
who did that, who didn't even have

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kids in the schools, but they
thought that they knew better than what everyone

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else. Here's my answer to everybody
else when they asked me this question,

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I'm going, look, when did
we think politicians have a better idea of

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books that should be in the library
and somebody who spent their entire life learning

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how to choose books for kids to
go in the library, or teachers who

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are teaching kids and they have a
bachelor's and a master's degree knowing how to

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teach readings. It amazes me that
we think we can trade those responsibilities to

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somebody that really they don't have any
real knowledge. They simply come from a

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particular point of view that they're trying
to press. When I was in school,

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when I was in charge and was
able to make decisions, we tried

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really hard not to jump to any
of those screenings that went one way or

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the other. I had a couple
of rules. The first rule is that

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whatever curriculum that we would put in
place had to be based on scientific devities.

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Does this math program work? We're
not picking something because the salesman made

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a good deal. That happens.
Know that's somebody else in this other place

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that's using it and they like it. Well, that we started with what

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the research says was going to work. And then the second one was is

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what we put in place is going
to be good for kids as opposed to

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being easy for adults. There's a
difference between those two. And that was

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off of a fight because teachers are
overburdened like everybody else, and they don't

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like to take on harder tasks than
they have to. I'm not critical of

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that. I understood that, but
I said, well, first of all,

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our first responsibilities to the kids.
You get to tell me, is

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this the best thing we can do
for kids? Yeah? First does the

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research say we should be doing it? And then the second thing is if

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what's right for kids? So if
you can do that, then I'll go

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back you through whatever else you has. So you know, you mentioned that

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particularly in urban areas and so forth, as you were working with kids,

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a lot of times they don't really
get much parental support. But let's talk

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about them that You're right, Yeah, let's talk to the parents that really

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want to be able to support their
children and yet they really don't know how.

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Another interesting story for my family.
You know, I've got four kids,

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so I get stories. But one
of my sons we were talking and

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he says, Dad, he says, you won't believe it. He says,

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we were helping his daughter with some
math problems and she was struggling,

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struggling, struggling. This happens to
be the one son that was a spatial

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thinker. And he says, and
finally I said, you know what,

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or he said to her, read
the problem out loud, and so she

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did, and then he read it
out loud to her and boom, she

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got it. And he said to
me, Dad, she's I just realized

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she's an auditory learner. And so
let's talk a little bit, if you're

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comfortable with it, let's talk about
the different learning styles and hopefully helped the

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parents to understand that if their children
or their child is struggling in school.

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It may have something to do with
the learning style they have versus the teaching

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style that they're experiencing. And then
I definitely want to get into your book.

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Well that's fine. Well I think
yeah, and I think you've left

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off you left out one part of
the equationment. It also may be the

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difference between the learning style that the
parent sees the world through and the learning

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style the child sees the world through, because be honest, we assume everybody

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sees things the way we do.
That's just kind of the natural, so

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they have to kind of learn it. I think the first thing I would

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do to try to ease parents' anxiety
is they have to be there for their

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kids. That means setting boundaries.
You know, I have a friend,

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here's her rule, walk in the
walk in the door. The cell phone

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goes in this basket, it doesn't
get touched again until homework's done. All

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the red. So I think those
kinds of things, especially today where they

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are so dog on any distractions,
I think that's really critical. The other

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the second thing I would like to
say probably is the earlier they can get

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involved, the better. There is
tremendous research about if you can start with

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kids and read the kids even before
they're in school. You can make a

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tremendous improvement on their trajectory and learning
as they go later. I'm involved with

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my own community. I don't know
if you know about this in California,

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but it's called Dolly Parton's Imagination Libraries, and Dolly Parton is the one who

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funds this, and she and she
partners with community organizations and in the community

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I'm in, which is a community
it's called Retay. We have put for

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five years, maybe eight years now, we put a book in the hands

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of every child at when they get
born, at a book a month from

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their birth until they're fifth five years
old. The remarkable program and and that

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I had where we live in Greek
Couny. There's a sizeable portion of very

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poor people who would not be spending
their disposal income or in many cases wouldn't

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be able to spend a disposal income
on books. But it's incredibly value.

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So I think part of my answer
is if you can do that early,

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then you'll make lots of things.
You will cut down problems that will happen

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late. However, there may be
people listen to this and their kid is

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already in fourth grade or third grade
or you know, so they shouldn't feel

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guilty, but they need to be
there for their kids. And I think

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if they can figure out what their
child's learning style is, that okay.

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The other option is that the experts
say that even if your preferred learning style

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is one style, it is best
to help kids be able to learn through

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multiple learning styles. So if I'm
hoping helping my kid with school, I

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would suggest to do exactly what your
son did. I'm helping her study for

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the tests I did X. That
didn't work, then try why try try

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a different approach. If try quiz
game instead of something remote. If that

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doesn't work, try a flash cards
because every kid's going to have a kind

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of different respect. But I think
the key is that the kid has to

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know the parents invested. You know, the kid has to know that mom

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and dad, mom or dad or
one or the other is there for me,

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and mom and dad are communicating to
me. This is important what I

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have seen because I have worked with
kids from rural backgrounds, work with kids

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from urban backgrounds, from suburban backgrounds
with great parent support, with poor suparent

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support, the best of all outcomes
occurred when the kids got the message when

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the parents at school was important,
this is your job. You know what

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my job is. I gotta do
blah blah blah. This is your job,

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This is your responsibility, this is
my responsibility. When kids get that

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message, then then things like I
don't like that subject or it's too much

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work. It kind of cuts through
all that and goes, hey, I've

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got to do stuff in my work
I don't like to do either. Let's

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get the homework done and we'll move
on to the next one. I think

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that can make a huge difference,
and the research says that that would really

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push a long way for kids to
be able to get where they need to

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be well. And you know what's
interesting, I think that so many times

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we look at our children's future and
how how are they going to experience life

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in the future as adults, and
I think we don't realize how much those

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school experiences can affect that. You
know, I've got some brothers that have

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gone to major advanced degrees, including
myself. I've got one brother that,

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you know, I think went for
a year college and didn't work brilliant,

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extremely successful, And what I recognized
was that it had to do with parents

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being able to make sure that they
don't get the sense that I'm I'm not

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smart, I'm not able to do
this. Yeah, the parents recognize they

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have to they have to convey to
the COVAD of their son or daughter,

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you can do this. I believe
in you this, I understand that this

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is something that you can you can
you can accomplish. Go ahead and say

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that again. It's it's important that
the parents are able to say to their

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son or daughter, I believe in
you. I know you can do this.

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I know it's hard. The best
things in life are hard, the

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best accomplishments are hard. But I
believe that you've got it in you you

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can do that well. And you
know, one of the things that I'm

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experiencing in and I've seen is that
so often, in fact, I've made

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this statement and I don't know scientifically
how truth it says. Someone can back

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this up. But I notice a
lot of these kids that are quote add

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and all of these types of things, they actually have a higher IQ level.

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They're actually much very smart. And
because of that, depending on what

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happens to be whether they're a spatial
type of thinker, they observe things that

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most kids don't observe, and because
of that they're identified as ADD when in

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fact they're just really smart kids.
They have a spatial type of learning.

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Well, I can tell you from
my experience that way too often some educators

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used ADD as a write office far
more than should have been the case.

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For whatever, for bad behavior.
And yes the research, does the research

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say the kids with ADD have a
higher academic No, but there are just

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so many kids with ADD that have
higher achievement possibilities as there are the kids

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without ADD. So the ADD is
not a factor that has any limitation on

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that. If we can simply get
the true true some dy's get to let's

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get to your book Cruel Lessons.
Talk a little bit about what motivated to

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you to write that one, and
what are some of the things that you're

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trying to teach? Well, what
I all of the books that First of

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all, I mentioned that all the
books that I write, This is my

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fifth novel being published by this company, and they're all about school. They're

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all featured teachers as heroes, and
they all try to focus on a serious

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issue that we are struggling with as
a culture. I happen to choose to

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set this particular book in the nineties. In fact, the book is actually

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set in fall of nineteen ninety five. That's a deliberate choice for several different

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reasons, but part of it has
to do with what I'm trying to focus

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on. So the story, basically, the story is very The story is

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about a It's about an elucidic drug
that's being peddled to middle school and a

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couple of kids get ahold of the
drug. They're going a joy ride and

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crash in this very small town,
and there's four kids that die in a

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small town town's never had four kids
die ever. So the town is traumatized

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and is calling for somebody's head.
Who's the comfortable, So the school district

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works with the police department and try
to track down who's pushing drugs into first

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the war school and then into the
middle school. My goal here is besides

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telling a good story, and I
shouldn't stop. I should not neglect the

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fact that the reviewers have loved them. The first reviewer said this is the

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best thriller I have ever read.
That's from a group called a perfect professional

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reviewer called nmm oookayment called the reader's
view readers can see this on my website

287
00:22:02.480 --> 00:22:04.039
to look it up. Said,
this is one of the best mysteries of

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twenty twenty three, so it's a
very good read. But behind the read,

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behind the fund, behind the who
done it, behind the mystery,

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I'm trying to tell a really serious
tale about the dangers of kids experimenting with

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drugs. I chose nineteen ninety five
for a couple of reasons. I happened

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to know that that was a time
when school did a very poor job of

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creating programs that had any ability to
keep kids on drugs. So if I'm

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dating myself here, but in nineteen
ninety five, the two programs we were

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using was Just Say No, their
program, and we have since learned that

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those two programs had virtually no effect
on diminishing kids' experimentation with drugs. The

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Their Program had positive effects for student
and police interaction but didn't change their drug

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habits, and Just Say No had
no effect. So I was trying to

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kind of cast the store were in
that context, and I wanted to use

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the past instead of getting into the
politics and the partisan thing about what's happening

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presently. But I wanted to use
the past as a metaphor for what's going

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on now. My concern is that
the issue today is far more serious,

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far more dangerous than what I portray
in my book. I mean, these

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kids just this is a there's no
real drug. I made it up.

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So it's a little bit similar to
LSD that you get a hold of,

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and it's dangerous, but it's not
terribly dangerous. Today kids could take one

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one dose of fentanyl and die.
I mean, that's a staggering issue that

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we've never dealt I never dealt with
when I was in school. So I'm

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trying to use the story here to
at least elevate the issue to be talking

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about. And I'm so serious about
it that I part with this book,

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I've partnered with a national drug prevention
program for youth called Natural Hide, and

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a portion of every of the profits
of every book is going to this particular

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group. And the really, the
reason I really love this group is their

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goal. They make scientifically based resources
for teachers and students to use to talk

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with kids about drugs, and they
don't charge teachers or parents anything, so

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it's a free service. So everything
is of course does are a nonprofit.

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You know, it's done by Foundation
stuff. So I'm really excited about that

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kind of combination. It helps,
It helps with the message that I'm trying

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to get across. Well. And
you know, you talk about a story,

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and so many books are written non
fiction, you know, their their

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nonfiction stories, and those books are
really tough to get through. And yes,

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you might get the points that they're
trying to make, but you know,

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at least for me, I find
that this I struggle. Whereas when

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you get into the fiction and the
really fun fiction or the interesting and fascinating

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fiction, so many times as you're
reading that, all of a sudden you're

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learning lessons life lessons. And as
you think about cruel lessons, your book

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not not what would be the life
lessons that you believe readers can achieve and

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understand, particularly in helping their children
not only to be better students, but

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also to avoid the pitfalls of drugs. Everything in the book is about working

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with and communicating with kids. So
in the book, what happens is that

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the kids who are experimenting with drugs
are kids on the edge, not kids

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that are not very popular or troublemakers, you know, use whatever they're at

333
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risk, whatever label currently you like. To use and ought to way too

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often in way too many places,
those kinds of kids just get dismiths.

335
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Now I had his brother. You
know what his brother was like. Man,

336
00:26:03.359 --> 00:26:08.319
that kid's not going to mount to
anything. So I wanted the message

337
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to be that and in the story
that the heroes in the story are incredibly

338
00:26:15.119 --> 00:26:19.960
moved by the fact that that lots
of people don't care that these kids are

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00:26:21.000 --> 00:26:26.359
dead. You know that that these
are these were disposable children. So the

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issue is about caring about every kid
and making sure that those kids know that

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they are they are valued, which
then affects their decisions of doing risky behavior

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like experiment with a drug they never
heard of before. So I think,

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I know that's not very I know
I'm not putting that in a pithy language

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that I can put on a bumper
sticker. But that's that's where I'm trying

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to go. And you know,
my first goal is I'm a storyteller.

346
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I'm telling an intriguing story. I'm
telling a good who done it that will

347
00:27:00.039 --> 00:27:04.039
keep people captivated in the pages to
try to figure out I think it's him,

348
00:27:04.079 --> 00:27:08.400
No, No, it's Arth No, okay. So I mean that's

349
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my nature I'm a storyteller, but
I am hoping that maybe by two thirds

350
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or three four so they through the
book, they'll have the aha moment and

351
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they'll get it. Oh, I
get it. Okay, it's about why

352
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aren't we taking better care of these
kinds of children? And how can we

353
00:27:26.440 --> 00:27:32.240
do something different so that this isn't
replicated in my classroom tomorrow, or in

354
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my community tomorrow, or in my
family. So would you say that the

355
00:27:37.799 --> 00:27:42.799
target audience for your book and gaining
the greatest value out of that are teachers.

356
00:27:44.759 --> 00:27:48.759
No, I mean teachers will enjoy
it because one of the things that's

357
00:27:48.799 --> 00:27:52.920
different about this book than my other
four books before this is all of the

358
00:27:52.000 --> 00:27:57.880
characters. All the characters are all
scoopy. So there are teachers and custodians

359
00:27:57.880 --> 00:28:03.839
and secretaries and board members and superintendents
and superten everybody that and a few parents.

360
00:28:03.880 --> 00:28:08.640
But everybody who interacts in a story
are all are all educators. So

361
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all of the good guys and all
the bad guys are all are all educators.

362
00:28:12.559 --> 00:28:15.039
You don't you have to figure out
who's new. So, of course

363
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teachers will enjoy seeing that, but
parents, virtually, anybody who's been through

364
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public school in America will recognize that, especially if they were in school in

365
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the nineties with a lot of you
know, they will start to see,

366
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oh, I remember the teacher.
Just in fact, I've already gotten some

367
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earlier views where people go that Chris
was just like the teacher I had in

368
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seventh grade. So I think I'm
hoping that there will be a lot of

369
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readers who see some of their lives
echoed in some of the characters that they

370
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see in there. The book is
there is nothing inappropriate for the books for

371
00:28:51.240 --> 00:28:56.599
students, but the books are really
intended for adults, okay, and for

372
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those that are involved in education as
well as parents. Have What value do

373
00:29:00.960 --> 00:29:03.640
the parents get out of this and
how is it going to help them to

374
00:29:04.400 --> 00:29:10.880
really help their children? Well,
I think though the greatest value, the

375
00:29:10.880 --> 00:29:14.240
first value that we have is it'll
be a really good read. They're going

376
00:29:14.319 --> 00:29:18.519
to have a good several nights employment, and it will do some nice memory

377
00:29:18.559 --> 00:29:25.440
taking back. Plus they will be
able to see reflected in the attitude of

378
00:29:25.440 --> 00:29:29.400
what's happening in the school district,
things that they would want to be talking

379
00:29:29.400 --> 00:29:33.759
about. What are my teachers like
with my children? You know, is

380
00:29:34.720 --> 00:29:40.519
the teacher like Chris or is a
teacher like station. Who's one that has

381
00:29:40.599 --> 00:29:47.519
my teacher do my teachers put my
kids first, ahead of getting out of

382
00:29:47.519 --> 00:29:51.440
school early, ahead of getting my
hair done, and all those other things

383
00:29:51.480 --> 00:29:56.000
that come into me. So I
think they will get that as well.

384
00:29:56.000 --> 00:30:02.000
They're not going to learn about the
current drug culture from anything in you,

385
00:30:03.279 --> 00:30:07.640
but I'm hoping even parents will see
the one kid that ends up getting caught

386
00:30:07.720 --> 00:30:11.279
up in this is a really good
kid that just happens to be in the

387
00:30:11.279 --> 00:30:14.720
wrong place at a wrong time.
So I think part of that message will

388
00:30:14.720 --> 00:30:18.359
get the parents go, you need
to be talking to your kids because this

389
00:30:18.440 --> 00:30:21.160
kid just happened to walk into this
one spot at the one time, and

390
00:30:21.400 --> 00:30:25.240
as a result, he ended up
being here you're talking to do exactly the

391
00:30:25.279 --> 00:30:27.559
same thing. You need to have
that conversation with them ahead of time,

392
00:30:27.920 --> 00:30:32.119
which is really what the natural high
that I'm partnering with, that's what they're

393
00:30:32.119 --> 00:30:37.960
all about. Don't wait till X
have that conversation now. So you know,

394
00:30:38.000 --> 00:30:41.640
one of the things that you're talking
about that really comes to my mind

395
00:30:41.640 --> 00:30:45.680
as you're talking about parents, and
this is a tough one. How do

396
00:30:45.880 --> 00:30:55.799
parents hold teachers to a higher standard
and help the teachers to achieve that standard

397
00:30:55.920 --> 00:31:04.119
rather than getting into more of a
difficult type of aggravated discussion affitational discussion.

398
00:31:04.200 --> 00:31:10.839
You mean, I think that is
a very difficult question, and it is

399
00:31:10.920 --> 00:31:18.279
even made more difficult because parents' lives
are even more complicated now than they were

400
00:31:19.359 --> 00:31:23.119
in nineteen ninety five. I mean
the parents is that I worked with from

401
00:31:25.400 --> 00:31:29.279
I started in seventy two and I
finished in twelve, So the parents I

402
00:31:29.319 --> 00:31:32.680
worked with all had complicated lives.
I had a lot of parents that were

403
00:31:32.720 --> 00:31:36.319
single parents, but they were trying
to work, often more than one job,

404
00:31:36.640 --> 00:31:40.000
trying to raise two kids, three
kids, four kids, So the

405
00:31:40.720 --> 00:31:45.240
demands on them were very difficult.
But I tried to tell them, even

406
00:31:45.279 --> 00:31:51.640
with all that, you still need
to find a way to get positively involved

407
00:31:51.640 --> 00:31:55.799
with your school. Doesn't mean you
volunteer a lot, it doesn't mean you

408
00:31:56.279 --> 00:31:59.920
are head of the PTA, none
of those. But you need to find

409
00:32:00.119 --> 00:32:06.880
way to to show the school that
that school matters to you, what your

410
00:32:06.920 --> 00:32:09.680
kids are doing matters to you.
And if you can do that to the

411
00:32:09.720 --> 00:32:15.319
teacher, that opens up almost any
kind of conversation with them, as a

412
00:32:15.359 --> 00:32:22.119
teacher knows that you're there for them. You're going to help the parent is

413
00:32:22.119 --> 00:32:28.400
going to help the teacher work with
Jamie. Okay, and Jamie needs that

414
00:32:28.559 --> 00:32:30.960
work. When the parent comes and
goes, look, I got a question.

415
00:32:31.680 --> 00:32:37.599
This happened and how did that?
Why did that occur? Is there

416
00:32:37.640 --> 00:32:39.839
something we should have done differently?
The teacher's going to take that in a

417
00:32:39.920 --> 00:32:44.799
whole different way than if they've never
met this parent. Parent comes in and

418
00:32:45.519 --> 00:32:47.240
you know, I had this happen
many times, so this is not fictional

419
00:32:49.079 --> 00:32:52.640
parents, and this teacher had never
met. The kid gets in trouble.

420
00:32:52.799 --> 00:32:54.799
Mom and dad comes in screaming saying, my kid would never do that.

421
00:32:54.880 --> 00:32:59.720
You know the number of times had
parents come to me and go, my

422
00:33:00.039 --> 00:33:01.119
chi, I would never lie to
me. And he said. The other

423
00:33:01.160 --> 00:33:05.920
person said, man, first of
all, I got three wonderful kids.

424
00:33:05.960 --> 00:33:10.440
They've all lied to me. Okay, but maybe you're kidding better than mine.

425
00:33:10.480 --> 00:33:13.680
I don't know, I said,
but but we have five people that

426
00:33:13.759 --> 00:33:16.400
said, your son's starting to know. So if you can, if you

427
00:33:16.400 --> 00:33:22.200
can build a relationship first, then
I think when you have questions and when

428
00:33:22.200 --> 00:33:25.480
you want to raise an issue,
it's a whole lot easier than that.

429
00:33:25.559 --> 00:33:29.880
If you just go in and go
Hey, I love that I've heard this

430
00:33:29.960 --> 00:33:31.519
too. You know, I pay
your salary, so you better do what

431
00:33:31.599 --> 00:33:37.640
I tell you to do. That's
not making it up now. And you

432
00:33:37.680 --> 00:33:42.359
know what, I think that that's
such an important point is you know,

433
00:33:42.440 --> 00:33:49.599
we talk about how how essential communication
between children and parents are, particularly in

434
00:33:49.680 --> 00:33:53.720
their ability to learn and deal with
school, but we don't talk a lot

435
00:33:53.759 --> 00:34:00.160
about how important that communication and relationship
level is between parents and the teacher.

436
00:34:01.079 --> 00:34:05.960
And and I think you hit a
good point being able to, you know,

437
00:34:06.079 --> 00:34:08.840
really develop a relationship with the teacher
so that you can go in and

438
00:34:08.920 --> 00:34:15.400
say, hey, you know,
my child's struggling and I'm wondering if if

439
00:34:15.519 --> 00:34:21.440
maybe they have a different, say
different learning style, what are your thoughts,

440
00:34:21.519 --> 00:34:23.360
And all of a sudden that gives
the teacher the ability to go,

441
00:34:23.440 --> 00:34:25.880
oh, you know what, maybe
that's true, and maybe I need to

442
00:34:25.920 --> 00:34:31.519
focus a little bit differently with that
child. So I think, you know,

443
00:34:31.559 --> 00:34:36.679
I appreciate what you say there because
I think it's so important that as

444
00:34:36.800 --> 00:34:42.639
parents we actually get to know the
teachers, which is not easy, particularly

445
00:34:42.719 --> 00:34:45.360
once you get into middle school and
high school. It is not right now,

446
00:34:45.440 --> 00:34:50.039
and it has gotten the schools that
made it easier in the sense that

447
00:34:50.280 --> 00:34:52.440
there are more ways that you can
have a relationship. You can you can

448
00:34:52.480 --> 00:34:55.119
do a text back and forth,
you can do an email back and forth.

449
00:34:55.280 --> 00:34:58.400
And I don't want to give the
impression that they got to become best

450
00:34:58.400 --> 00:35:01.440
friends. That's not heavily involved.
They don't have to know them personally.

451
00:35:01.800 --> 00:35:07.280
They just have to have a relationship. Try to make the relationship there before

452
00:35:07.440 --> 00:35:12.559
any an issue that you just raised
came up. You know. The other

453
00:35:12.599 --> 00:35:16.920
thing is, I will say this
now now, Doug, I worked with

454
00:35:17.079 --> 00:35:22.440
thousands of teachers, and you can
guess over forty years, and I would

455
00:35:22.519 --> 00:35:30.239
say ninety five percent of those teachers
worked really hard and did the very best

456
00:35:30.320 --> 00:35:35.440
they could all the time we had
our chat. Five or ten percent that

457
00:35:35.440 --> 00:35:40.159
that's not true, but mostly so. Now your parent that you're talking to

458
00:35:40.280 --> 00:35:43.280
will say, well, this is
one of the ten percent, and they

459
00:35:43.320 --> 00:35:47.639
may be. I'm not dismissing that, but I would remind parents that in

460
00:35:47.719 --> 00:35:52.440
most cases the teachers were doing the
very best they can, and it would

461
00:35:52.440 --> 00:35:57.000
help them to recognize that beforehand.
So it's not like God, if they

462
00:35:57.079 --> 00:35:59.639
just gave it, if they just
gave it, damn, then your kids

463
00:35:59.679 --> 00:36:05.639
wouldn't be in this situation that's not
been my experience. That doesn't mean that

464
00:36:06.519 --> 00:36:09.039
your example is perfectly right. That
this teacher may not have thought of trying

465
00:36:09.079 --> 00:36:14.400
a different learning approach with this kid. I'm not saying that that's not a

466
00:36:14.400 --> 00:36:17.280
good idea, but don't assume that
that hasn't happened because they're too dumb,

467
00:36:17.360 --> 00:36:22.159
or too lazy, or none of
those things. Most of the time,

468
00:36:22.159 --> 00:36:28.000
none of those things apply. So
let's focus on this people involved in school.

469
00:36:28.079 --> 00:36:30.840
And you say it's not only just
the teachers, but it's the principles

470
00:36:30.920 --> 00:36:37.000
and all the other workers and everybody
that's involved. What is your main message

471
00:36:37.039 --> 00:36:43.360
for them that comes out of this
book. I have a line that I

472
00:36:43.480 --> 00:36:49.519
use in this book at least once, maybe twice, when the protagonist his

473
00:36:49.599 --> 00:36:58.239
name is Ken, is really frustrated
because about giving too much away. There

474
00:36:58.239 --> 00:37:01.199
are people in the school district that
want the problem to go away because it's

475
00:37:01.199 --> 00:37:07.199
making the school district look bad.
Let's see that, And in great frustration,

476
00:37:07.360 --> 00:37:09.920
he says, you know, some
of us forgot that we got into

477
00:37:09.920 --> 00:37:15.159
this job in the service of children. Almost all the mistakes that I've seen

478
00:37:15.360 --> 00:37:23.000
people in leadership make is because they
have forgotten that fundamental lesson. Their focus

479
00:37:23.079 --> 00:37:29.480
is on money, not their own
money, saving the district, or power

480
00:37:29.800 --> 00:37:37.559
or popularity or what or what the
public is going to vote on the next

481
00:37:37.079 --> 00:37:40.840
It's not about you know. We
did this to try to figure out the

482
00:37:40.840 --> 00:37:45.119
best way to serve children in this
community. Is that what we're doing?

483
00:37:45.440 --> 00:37:49.800
So if you're asking me for my
advice, based on my forty years of

484
00:37:49.840 --> 00:37:57.559
experience, I would tell principal superintendent
board members to ask themselves that question when

485
00:37:57.559 --> 00:38:01.760
they're confronted with a controversy or they're
trying to deal with the serious decision that

486
00:38:01.800 --> 00:38:07.280
they're affecting the leadership of the schoodest
the question they should ask is are we

487
00:38:07.400 --> 00:38:12.159
making this decision in the best interests
of children? Are we remembering that we

488
00:38:12.239 --> 00:38:15.760
got it into this business and the
service of kids? What about us?

489
00:38:15.760 --> 00:38:19.360
It's about them? And if the
answer is yes, then go ahead with

490
00:38:19.519 --> 00:38:22.320
where're headed. If the answers,
I don't know, and you better rethink

491
00:38:22.360 --> 00:38:28.480
your motives because you're probably on a
wrong sid well. And I think that's

492
00:38:28.519 --> 00:38:35.079
a good message to end the show
with. I love that. So I

493
00:38:35.119 --> 00:38:38.639
guess question number one, how did
they find your book? The easiest way

494
00:38:38.639 --> 00:38:43.360
to find that book is to find
the book is on my website. My

495
00:38:43.440 --> 00:38:47.719
website is simply author Randy Overbecker dot
com. Can't be as simpler than that.

496
00:38:49.159 --> 00:38:52.920
And on there it has any kind
of any place they they want to

497
00:38:52.920 --> 00:38:54.559
purchase a book. There's a link
to that to Amazon, Barnes and Noble

498
00:38:54.639 --> 00:39:00.679
and all those places. They also
can contact me by email, which is

499
00:39:00.800 --> 00:39:07.039
just Randy Overbeck at authorandioirbeck dot com. They can catch me on Twitter.

500
00:39:07.320 --> 00:39:10.320
They can catch me on Instagram.
On Facebook, it's author Andy over Beck.

501
00:39:10.360 --> 00:39:14.679
Instagram, it's author Andy over Beck. Any any of those things.

502
00:39:14.719 --> 00:39:17.880
I love communicating with my readers,
or somebody who's just got a question that

503
00:39:17.920 --> 00:39:22.800
you have prompted them on this great
interview. They may want to go that

504
00:39:22.880 --> 00:39:27.440
direction and throw a question at me. I'll be happy to talk with and

505
00:39:27.559 --> 00:39:31.840
for people who may not necessarily be
involved anymore in you know, their kids

506
00:39:31.880 --> 00:39:36.760
are grown up and whatever, but
they love fiction. Is this a book

507
00:39:36.840 --> 00:39:42.159
worth reading? Oh? I think
well? And the answer of let me

508
00:39:42.639 --> 00:39:46.760
how about this here's on the front
cover. It says masterly written, a

509
00:39:46.840 --> 00:39:53.079
gripping crime thriller and an amateur sloop
mystery literary type Okay, so that's what

510
00:39:53.159 --> 00:39:57.039
I want to That's what I want
folks to understand that. You know what,

511
00:39:57.079 --> 00:40:00.880
if you love reading fiction and mysteries, here's a great book that you

512
00:40:00.920 --> 00:40:05.280
can read and don't worry about the
rest of it. Then for those that

513
00:40:05.280 --> 00:40:07.920
are involved with their kids in school
and those that are involved as teachers and

514
00:40:08.000 --> 00:40:12.599
all of that, this is a
great book that you need to read and

515
00:40:12.760 --> 00:40:17.519
really start to envelop that message and
integrate that message into your life and into

516
00:40:17.519 --> 00:40:22.719
your teaching style. So, Randy, thank you so much for being on

517
00:40:22.760 --> 00:40:27.519
the show. Doug, I am
thrilled to be here. Thanks for the

518
00:40:27.559 --> 00:40:30.280
opportunity to tell my story and to
share my two cents worth for what it's

519
00:40:30.320 --> 00:40:34.599
worth and get the word out about
my new book. I appreciate it.

520
00:40:35.079 --> 00:40:37.199
Oh you bet, And folks,
thanks for listening. Hope this has been

521
00:40:37.199 --> 00:40:40.119
a good message for you. Look
forward to having you join us again soon