A Soul’s Quest: Finding Meaning Beyond the Roles We Play

0:01 This program is designed to provide general information with regards to the subject matters covered. This information is given with the understanding that neither the hosts, guests, sponsors, or station are engaged in rendering any specific and personal medical, financial, legal counseling, professional service, or any advice. You should seek the services of competent professionals before applying or trying any suggested ideas. At the end of the day, it's not about what you have or even what you've accomplished. It's about what you've done with those accomplishments. It's about who you've lifted up, who you've made better. It's about what you've given back.

0:44 Thanzel Washington, Welcome to inspire Vision. Our sole purpose is to elevate the lives of others and to inspire you to. Do the same. Omer Jesse, how are you doing fantastic? Ler doing excellent. Thank you so much for having us, doctor Doug. Rt to have you on the podcast. And obviously you have your own podcast. Yes, we do the ASQ podcast. Yeah, Yeah, I'm gonna have to listen to that one. Yeah, definitely, I think we talk about a lot of similar. Things we do. Definitely, definitely. So what I'd love for you to do is I really would love for you to kind of share how you got to this point because it's always so fascinating.

1:26 I know you've had other careers and all of that type of stuff, and what what happened in your life you bring you to the point where you're doing what you're doing now. Absolutely, you want to take that over first. I know, I think you should take it on first. This is sort of his baby. So about four years ago, after a career youth development and management, middle management, I kind of like hit a point in which the organization that I was with, our values no longer aligned, you know, that were going through a change in which I felt that the heart of the organization was going away and it was being changed by this methodical way of thinking and this way of not really living from it within. It was more process and outcomes and things of that nature, which although those things are important, they were taken away from the real job and the mission of what we were doing in my opinion, and it was a it was a tough break breakup. It's one of the soul crushing things because you dedicate your early stage in life to find that thing that career that's going to define your your life, and when that dissolution comes, it takes you to for for a whirlwind because your identity is no longer tied to what you are doing. So for me, it was

2:57 soul shaking. Yeah, it was devastating, and that led to a source quest and a source quest. The premise behind it, it goes right into what you talked about. It's a combination of ideas from psychology, philosophy, heavily influenced by mythology, in particularly the hero's journey, because we come to a point in which we're departing from what we're accustomed to do, going into something that is new, and that is super scary, very threatening because it goes at the foundation of identity and when you lose that or will you perceive that you lose that identity, two things happen. One do you either withdraw into depression or darkness because it is so much easier to identify with the pain, or two you go out there in the world then go into a quest to redefine who you are and find out what you're going to do in the hero now, So that was the foundation of what we started with a source quest that idea that life doesn't stop life. It's a series of transitions, a series of crisises that we face when we're not aware that everything in the universe is a cycle beginning an end. So that, in a nutshell, is what the catalyst to creating a solid quest.

4:17 Well and Jesse, how do you fit into this whole thing? Actually my story is a little bit funnier than his. I don't want to take away from his experience because it was It was a lot for him at that time, but for me it was I like to tell people that I was very much living in the matrix. I was normal for all intents and purposes. I was an empty nester at this point. You know, kids are grown now. I was working in higher education at that time. I was probably there about eleven or twelve years. You know. I saw myself in like a capacity as a as an instructor, a faculty member, you know. I I just had my whole life planned out for me. I'm going to retire when i'm you know, sixty two or whatever the age is, and just going to enjoy retirement. I'm doing great. I, you know, worked hard on my education.

5:12 I earned a terminal degree, you know, when I became a doctor, I was like, oh my gosh, I've I'm I'm a doctor. And unfortunately, it wasn't the same experience that people think that they're going to have. You know, you go through being a really good. Employee, being loyal, dedicated, doing everything right for family, meeting all the expectations, being a good wife, a good you know, mother, a good all these things. So I was very much living that role, and I started to see little glimpses of like doors closing on me. And so even after achieving these high achievements, right, I mean, you're getting a doctorate, you're you're working in higher education, you're just you're you're feeling like you're successful, your kids doing fantastic, you know, I felt a little bit of an empty nest, like not empty nest, empty miss so yeah, an empty nest.

6:10 So what happened for me is Omar was going through his thing and we're doing this thing at the same time, and out of nowhere, he's like, I'm going to start a podcast and you're going to be the host. And I was like, wait, what time out? I know, I don't like to be on camera. I don't want to be on a camera. I don't want to do this. At first, I thought it was just going to be audio. I'm like, oh okay, and he's like, no, it's video too, and I'm like, oh god. And so we started this whole thing and I still wasn't one hundred percent in. I had one foot in, one foot out, because I was for all intents. And purposes, is fine. And so just recently, literally just recently, I had a lot of negative experiences with toxic work environments and a lot of toxicity from you know, people that I worked with or for, and it was really starting this.

7:00 Little these little holes were starting to get bigger and bigger, and it. Was like coming literally like coming out of the matrix the same way that Neo comes out of it is the same way that I felt. I felt vulnerable and I was just questioning everything in my life. And it was disheartening and it was sad, and it was a very traumatic experience for me because you have to go it alone, you know. And I had support, right, I had support from Omar because he had already gone through this process or was going through it. But you can't that experience. You have to do it alone. That call to the adventure is a solo journey. It's very lonely, and so that's basically what happened for me. I mean, I'm saying it very lightly, but basically, I now understand what a soul's quest is about. And I am one hundred percent committed to helping other people guide other people through this experience because it is an experience.

8:01 It's a beautiful experience, you know. Well you know, and what's interesting And as you were talking about your story, it reminds me of my daughter's story, only a little bit different. She was getting a degree in sociology and she was doing so well that they were fast tracking her to her doctorate, and so she went through that. I think it was three years undergrad then she was moving into the graduate was getting her master's degree, and all of a sudden, she called me up one day and she said, Dad, I'm not sure I. Want to go get my doctorate. And I'm going, well, why not, sweetie, because you know I went to yours. I went so many years to get my doctor's degree. And she said, because as I'm now observing, because you're really close to the people and they were good to her is but I'm observing what they're going through and what they have to do on a.

8:53 Daily basis, and that's not me. And you know, because of my past experiences and so forth, we've done all these personality profiling and behavioral analyzes and so forth. And she's very much left her and right. Brain, so she's very strong, well, but she's very much right brain and loves to be with people and so forth. And she said, Dad, they have no time for anybody. They're so busy at a doctor level, trying to do this and trying to do that. And so ultimately, bless her, she made the decision to stop at her you know, her message degree and then went off and got a job that she's loving right now that has nothing to do with her degree, although they have prepared.

9:33 Her for it. But you know, it's interesting how people. It's interesting how people move forward in their lives and try to achieve certain things because in some respects they're told that this is what is good for us. Too, exactly. And did you kind of feel that way as you were going towards your doctorate, that this was just absolutely that you needed to do in order to Oh, yeah. Able, yes, I feel like I'm so glad I do ask that question. That's a great question, because what happens with us is that we're so conditioned and it's almost like we've received this to do list, this checklist of things that you need to do in order to be an accomplished individual, right in order to have arrived.

10:17 And we all know that we never arrive. Right. That in and of itself is a contradiction, because you just don't arrive. You're always transitioning, you're always doing, You're always going through what. I like to call a metamorphosis. Right. And so for me, yeah, I was like, I'm working in higher education. Clearly I need to get a master's degree. And then when I got my master's degree, I was like, no, I'm not going to go out, you know, I'm not going to do this. But then I was like, but I want to be like all these other people that have PhDs, and I'm passionate about leadership and toxic work environments. I could write my dissertation on this. This is great, and then I will have arrived and they'll see me and they'll give me a raise and a promotion and they're gonna just love me an a dormy and I'm just gonna be.

11:01 Everything's gonna be perfect. That didn't happen. That didn't happen at all. Yeah, it's so interesting. I came from My dad actually taught Northwestern University there in Chicago, Okay, and he was a passical voice teacher. So but anyway, you know, I have four brothers. There's five boys in the family and one one girl. She's the youngest. And it was interesting because my dad basically said to us, all you will get a higher degree, and you're gonna pay for yourselves because I'm not paying. For it, which is what happened. So, yeah, I've got a brother that got got his message of great at Harvard, and I've got two brothers that are attorneys and one one brother decided not to go to college. And my dad was so unhappy with that.

11:52 And as I talked to my brother, Now, of course my dad's passed away, but as I talked to my brother, he really received some very unfortunate comments from dad during that time. Now, guess who's the one in the family that owns the jet? And yeah, you So it's interesting how we can be so programmed, you know, as you shared to achieve whatever this happens to be in our lives rather than as you talk about. Soul quest, I love I love that that terminology. So as as you started to go through that process, what what were some of the challenges you faced, What were some of the steps you realized you had to take in order to number want to overcome that loss, overcome the fear of I don't know what's going to happen next, and then transition, as you say, with that journey to reach a point where you're back on target, but now you're doing something that you really love to do and are making a difference.

12:57 Well, before I get into that, I want to touch something on on what you both talked about, that that need to belong right and society is is a structure that is it's it's problematic, not because it's evil, but because it is it is something that needs to function right. But what happens a lot of the time is that we live our lives as it is meant to maintain society, rather than society working for us. You know, you mentioned a lot of the personality tests. Those personality tests. When you do anythingle Myers, brigs uh Pi Index, anything of those things, it will tell you that not everyone fits you know, as a doctor, as an engineer, as this.

13:45 There's artists, there's there's there's I'm an I n F P and the Meyers brigs. So I got flowers all over the place and a lot being alone. So society looks for certain types of people to perform the functions of maintaining this as the problem lies that that's only a certain percentage of the population. What about the rest. So in the education system, which I spent some times working on, you call them the bottom twenty five percent, So we don't pay as much attention to them. Like your brother, you know, those were skills and sets that needed to be nurtured for young people to be able to find and create things that will enhance society, rather I take it away from it. So we get too cut up in the idea. And I think politicians and our leaders need to expand their consciousness about the function of society, which is to serve us rather than for us to serve them or it. And that's kind of like the problem that most people in our lives not like if you could tell them the philosophical in the house.

14:44 She's the practical woman, right, She's the one that's practical right. But one of the things that happened when you really come to that point of confronting that dissolution of identity right, which is what we call it, is that you have to face it. And one of the things that you really truly have to ask is if I am not that, If I am not the functions that I play in society, if I am not the roles of a father or brother or sister. Those things are all important, but professional they are very important. But when those things go away, when the family begins to go on their own way, when our parents begin to pass away, when a dissolution of that, then the question is an existential question, am I really right? It goes to that particular point that then that we have to go ahead and figure out what that looks like. And that is painful. It's not for the faint of heart. But I always use the analogy if you look at any any person that has made an impact, a very important consciousness expanding impact in our inner world, Buddha Jesus Muhammad moses those people had to spend a lot of time in solitude right forty nights, and then how to go within right to be able to identify with something more universal. That way that you that universality of what that is helps you transcend those things.

16:14 And that is the core of what most people don't want to look into that abyss. It's like Callium talks about if you go don't run away from your shadow, face it, because once you face it, you start seeing the light that actually comes from it. And that's the idea. But it's painful. I cried a lot. You know you your question is like, am I a loser? You know? What? What am I doing? Is this? Whatever? You know? You you save money and then you lose money because you're not sure exactly where are you going to do? And you're thinking and you're waiting so and then you know you you have society's noise in the back constantly. You're not you're being irresponsible. You're not doing what you're supposed to do. You should be producing, you should be busy all the time, you should be doing this and that.

17:03 So you have all that noise constantly berating you. You know that, waking up at three o'clock in the morning just because your brain won't stop. You know, So all those things is what you're feeling. And the idea is to be able to walk with that, with that that pain a little bit and ask that question constantly insight of this, who am I? And you know it's interesting for you. For both of you, it had to do with your professions. And you know, I think for a lot of people they may not be able to identify with that. But the reality is is that we all go through different experiences in our lives. And I remember a number of years ago I went through some tough experiences and ultimately it took me getting into a process of meditation and understanding that and studying with the top meditation teacher and all of a sudden realizing, you know what, this is what I need to do.

18:00 This is what I really choose to do, and that process, as you say, can be very difficult. But I think for people to understand that, and I'd love for you to share because I. Know you work with a lot of people. As you think about it, if it's just not work that's causing the stress, but it's life events. How do people number one finally come to realize that, hey, this is what I'm going through and how do they get to the point where they actually will take the desire, the courage and the awareness to start that transformational journey would have been your experiences with that. So I want to answer that really quick.

18:40 From my perspective, Yes, a lot of the things that I experience are what turned me to my quest. Was a lot to do with professions and how I was treated and how I was overlooked and door with closing. But I also had a lot of ordinary life, you know, experiences too. And one thing that stands out for me is and Omar is the one he's you know, he's my philosophical personal teacher. Here is I was really feeling like, oh my god, you know, I'm I'm an empty. Nester and I love it. I don't. I'm good with not having kids at home. I'm glad that they're doing their own things and they're off, you know, they're there. I have a granddaughter. She's amazing, she's beautiful, and you know, I keep in touch with him and we talk and whatnot. But I'm no longer serving the purpose or the role that I was.

19:31 I'm not a mother the way I'm not needed the way that I was needed before, right, And that was hard for me because and I didn't realize it was hard for me until I started realizing, oh my gosh, he's doing like all his own things. He's going on vacations and he's having these little get togethers and I'm not invited or you know, they're going out for dinners and I'm getting pictures, and I was really feeling like left out, you know, and I was like crying and upset. Like he doesn't need me. What's going on? Is he upset with me? Like a lot of really crazy questions came up for me in terms of what my role was now because I didn't serve in the same capacity anymore. And one of the things that Omar said to me that helped me and pushed me towards, and this is that awareness part that you mentioned, was that our children are not They don't come they don't come from us.

20:22 They go through us. Right. So we birth them and we guide them and we give them the tools and the resources to become independent individuals, right, and then they go off and they formulate their own life, they create their own family or whatever that looks like. So for me, that was an awareness moment, and it wasn't easy to accept that because you always want to be needed, right, but you also know that again we're going through this hero's journey. It's a transition. And this has ended for me. I've done. My role is complete when it comes to being a mother. I'm still a mom, but I'm just a mom in a different capacity. And that was really really difficult for me, really difficult.

21:09 I have the fortune of always working with people, and that's been one of the things that as a young person deciding a career I kind of like came across that. So I do a lot of work right now with with males and also with uh male survivors of sexual abuse and and and people that have unfortunately have survived that that that interaction and in my interactions with men in particular, there's a dissolution of roles. They don't you know. It's a really challenging time right now for men to define what what does it mean to be a man in a in a in a place in which brute force no longer is required, right, in which those things of taming nature no longer required.

21:53 Right. And so the despair and the loneliness that men feel because we are so condition and not to express what's going on inside us because it shows like it's a sign of weakness or something of that nature. So I the work that I do with Man, I see that consistently, the questioning of I'm feeling this, but if I say it, I'm going to be ridiculed, you know, if I if I open up about Man, I'm frustrated because I can't figure out how to interact with my kid, you know. Man, I'm frou frustrated because I don't want to get divorced, but I have to go through a divorce. Man, I'm frustrated because at work, I have supervisors that I write in my back you know, even though I'm doing what I'm supposed to do. And then also all these other things that men haven't been able to confront because our society hasn't allowed it. So my advice to them is always goes back to the first question. And every time I do a presentation and every time I do some kind of talk, I always ask that question, who am I?

23:00 Because again, fund foundationally, we have to be able to be confident and comfortable exploring that question, to define it in our own terms. Because then from that point of view, once you discover what that looks like, it's like an epiphany. Oh okay, you know, now you could ride your actions. Now you could align your desires and the things that you want to base on that answer. So that is what I see when it comes to the people that I work with. We live in a society that is super technologically advanced. Right, we produce food at a hire a place that any other time in history. The places that we live are just the basic stuff. Right. You could go into your shower to have a warm shower.

23:45 Yet with all those advances, why are we going to an epidemic of mental health? Why? And it's fascinating now how society has brought us to that point. And we see such anger that this is existing now, and you know, and and it's such a shame. And what I want to find out from you guys, is, you know, always reading a little bit about you use a blend of psycho spiritual insight, which I'd love for you to define practical tools and grounded conversation as you work with people to help them, And I'd love for the audience to kind of understand a little bit more in depth what you do, how you use those processes, and how it's affective for people.

24:28 Yeah, So the term psycho spiritual is a combination of obviously some psychology and spirituality. So psychology, I love the archetypes framework the young developed right because he shows different aspects of what he means to be us. Right, there is a dual nature within us and we we we always we are paradox of conflicting impulses, conflicting thoughts, conflicting desires. Right. So this psychology, particularly in Ung's framework, is to be able to understand those conflicting forces and be able to find the balance between the two. You know, this is what meditation is good for, to be able to see those extremes. But this is all psychology, you know, the archetypes of the collective unconscious, they actually symbolize energies within us.

25:20 Right when you look at Eric Erickson and the cycles of life, right, very most of us don't understand that there are different natural stages of life that we go through from childhood to adolescens, from adolessons to young adult, from young adult to maturity to maturity to departure. And if we don't understand the psychology the emotions that comes in those transitions, then what he just fines as a crisis takes place. Right. The more we understand, the more conscious that we are about that crisis, the easier we can navigate through it, right, the confused us and it's kind of let dissipate it because we'd understand. So that's as psychology part spirituality. I have a it's a challenge to to understand spirituality from a non pop culture point of view. You know, we say a lot of things about spirituality, which is not feeling desires, you know, avoiding. You know, I don't want to feel I want to be spiritual. I want to see these angels, I want to see all this different stuff personally speaking, and the way that we talk about it, if spirituality is a practical thing, it's something that happens in the here and now, because our lives for our average of seventy two seventy five years, happens in the here and now. Right in the way that I look at spirituality is I give you the analogy of the Sun and us. We do not exist without the sun, right, we are an aspect of the Sun, of that energy. Right,

26:51 so it's an aspect of that. We have to understand our divinity when it comes to that. But also more importantly, how do we contribute in the here in the now? Because everything in the universe contributes in one way or the other. We just have to find our point of expression by understanding all the dualities within us, find our point of expression so that we could actually contribute in the here now. And that's when you get into that float state that wow, this is awesome. I'm enjoying this and it could be anything. I can't tell you what it is because it has to be yours. You know what mine is. And what we do is that we guide people through that process.

27:33 And helps them to understand. You know, as you mentioned, as you mentioned Buddha, as you mentioned Jesus, as you were mentioning those there's what I found is there's one common thing that comes from all of them, and that is to become. You know, I am that I am, and you know with Buddha, become free yourself from the suffering, just become. And it's fascinating to me that some other along the line we've forgotten that that's what it's really all about, is to really, as you say, find out who you really are, become and it isn't something that you just suddenly say, oh this is who I am. It's a process of Number one, I think overcoming all of those imprints that have focused our lives and then being able to move in a direction where we truly become and as you say, find that sense of peace and joy. So there's this psycho spiritual Now what are the practical tools that you use?

28:31 So that was the next step. That's where I come in. I think for us, really, when a soul's quest was born, and as it's evolved, because it's definitely become, it's evolved tremendously. Is what we do is we offer our own lives and a look into what we're going through as a platform, a safe platform for people to be open, express themselves. I like to say that we offer a frequency to people to let them into our space. Right. So we call those people's soul questers because those are the people that want to know, who are committed to going through this through the hero's journey, right, And so we we offer a variety of tools.

29:22 We you know, we offer guiding. We don't call it coaching. We call it guiding because we guide people through this process. I walk with people because I'm just recently going through this transition, right, so it's really raw for me and it's really you know, it's it's a it's been a an eye opening experience. And I think when you allow people to come into your space and you go with them and you feel with them and you become and you know you have that empathy because you're experiencing it or you have experienced it, there's a different type of relationship that happens. They're a bond that happens, you know. And so there you know the guide and from a practical standpoint, you know, what is it that we that we do right. There's a concept that I used that I found actually a Greek concept called psychle pump right and is a guide. It used to be a guide from life to death. And so our role is really to be able to walk along with people and let them know what the post signs are to help them understand the process of walking. We do that by courses that we have on our on our membership, which are really targeted at understanding the different forces that you have inside.

30:36 Like for instance, I we define the soul because the soul has a definition, and we use the Greek definition of it. So the first one is your impulses, your natural impulses, the urge for a production that's something that we have to understand because it's very problematic when we don't. Right. The urge to power, which is something else that we have inside of us, the earth urg like we talked about society, the urge to belong to something. Those are things that we need to understand because we really don't talk about that. So some of the things that we practically do, so we explore those aspects, right. The second part is our emotions, right. So Jesse in her doctorate did a lot of work with emotional intelligence. In my work as well, I did a lot of work with emotional intelligence. And again, the emotions are the compass that kind of I tell you what the urges are doing, right, So you have to understand the urges, and then with the emotions right, you be able to not eliminate them, but to be able to find the equilibrium between the two opposing forces. So you have to understand that right.

31:43 And the final thing is understanding your thoughts and your mind right. So in order for you to transform the way that you see the world, you have to use your mind. Our mind is the most powerful tool that we possess. Are the only creatures on Earth that hasn't expanded level of consciousness and expand the level of thinking. Right. So we use philosophy right as a spectrum, and you have to define what your philosophy, what we call your approach to life that is. And it all starts by first understanding that that you know, the mammalian brain, which is called right, those impulses and the stuff your emotions, and then how do you use the power of your mind to focus and pay attention to what it is that you will like to see. So the process goes through all that because again, I've always been a lifelong seeker.

32:38 I love learning new things. But very seldom do I see people talking about these things that we talk about our impulse, the libido, the serpent power, as congleaning power, as something that is like, eugh, you don't want to talk about that, I'm too spiritual for that. But the reality is that in every single religion and every single mythology, that's an in power important power to understand because it is the power of creation and the power of destruction. And if we don't know how to balance that, right, that's what problems begin to happen in our life. And I had to learn all this. I had to understand the First, I had to be able to see, like, oh, my impulses that made me make bad decisions, you know, that need that idea to belong. I make bad decisions when it came to money because I wanted to feel like I belong right, So all this thing's important to understand.

33:30 And it's interesting is you talk about impulses and the emotions and emotional intelligence, you know, and I love the emotional scales that I've seen and studied. And what's fascinating about it is that you know there will be times that all of a sudden, I'm getting really frustrated here in kind of number one because I don't speak the language and they don't speak English, and miscommunication can be really frustrating. But then I had to sit back and go, okay, why what what is that? As you urge or I say, what is that imprint within me that is causing me to experience this emotion? And I find that that if someone will just observe their emotions, they can suddenly realize, Okay, you know what, I don't need to have this emotion, But why am I experiencing it? And being able to do that deep dive into that and figuring out all right, this is why it's happening, or that's why it's happening, and you call urges. But you know what's fascinating. Sometimes we have no idea where they come from. They come from childhood, which is subconscious, they come from DNA, they come so from eridity, they come from epigenetics, they come from all those things, and in many cases we have no control over that essentially, But then we do have the control because once we realize it and can recognize it and become aware of it, then we can start to take control. And I love how we can move from being a victim of all of that to being

35:03 empowered by all of that. Now, you use a framework called PEP. Could you explain to me what that is? Sure? So, so we still and this is going to be this is in our book. It's so squad as a transformational approach to life, and this is the foundation of a other things that we do. So PEP stars stands for perspective, experience and philosophy. Right, So one of the things that we urge people to do is to broaden their perspective. Why in your gaze right, look at the universe? I love I love Carl Sagan, I love our our honeymoon. We went to Kennedy Space Center. So that does to show you like exactly how how how we look at into the universe, because it is important to look at the universe at nature to understand its energies and understand it's it's it's how it works.

35:55 Right. The universe is impartial. Right. You you have asteroids called lighting in space and they go in different directions. Right. You have starts that dissipate but then come back together, and you have galaxies that come together. So when you start looking at what in your gates and getting a border perspective almost like as above, so below, you start really truly understanding the cyclical nature of life. You start understanding that nothing is evil for us. It's for us to be more aware of it, which is what science does. Right. Science is not a religion like trying to make it. Science is a process, right, to be able to look outside, to be able to recognize and deduce and then be able to formulate an approach based on that observation.

36:44 Right. So that's what perspectives experience is. We experience life in many different things, in many different ways. We just talked about it as how we respond to the stimulus from the outside. Right, So our experiences, the things that happen to us, we have to take all that information from a different perspective, cosmic perspective, so that we could distill exactly what not why this happened, But what is it that I'm learning from this? Yes, because the why question, when you think, oh, why did this happen to me, it's a never ending question and it puts you down in the pit. And I learned that when I was going through all this stuff where you ask what am I learning for this? What can I gain from this?

37:28 What new perspective can I get? How can I learn and take something from this? So the experience is being able to look at life, at the situations that happened. How I looked that within my impulses to be able to formulate, gain the lessons, astract the lessons from it the experiences. Right, and then you go into philosophy, and philosophy is creating your own approach to life. Right. I use in a lot of the trainings that I use, I use Nietzchees a metamorphosis or the spirit is in the product to those books that are two strike He talks about the camel, the lion, the dragon, and the k and the child. Right, and the idea that when we're we're conditioned, we're a camel. A camel is a beast, a bird, and put a load on me. This is what happens because we're just pitched into existence. Right. You don't choose your family, you don't choose where you were born, you don't choose your body. The universe just pitches you. Right, So everything is given to your social conditioning this idea.

38:23 But then you because this is something inside of you that tells you you have to go and confront this. And if you don't listen to that, you're you're not going to be okay. So you go into the desert. You get transformed into a lion, and the goal of that linon needs to kill a dragon. You need to scale of the dragon. There's a doubt, shout or you should do this, you should do that, you should be like this. You have to kill that dragon. And once you do that, then you get transformed into a child. Right. It's like in the Bible says and a child shall lead them. Right, we have to get to a point as a child in which we are curious again, we are open to the possibilities of the universe, we are open to the possibilities of life, and only from that point can you really begin your quest.

39:06 Right. So the objective of PEP is to get you to that launching point right in which you are understanding your experiences, understanding that everything that happened led you to this point, so that now you could go out there find more about what you are, and then live from that point of view. So those are the things that that that's what that means. Okay, And I love that. You know, as you talk, I think about this concept that I just learned from one of my other podcasts that you know, our experiences are there to teach us. You know, we can either become a victim of our experiences or we can allow that to teach us. And as we allow that to teach us, and as you say, as you get back to that final P and realize that, Okay, I can actually use these and develop a gift and the develop and ability to help.

39:58 And it's just like what you guys want through with your story. I mean, here you are now and you've done all of the study, and you've done all of this stuff. And you've used that event or those events to develop a gift that then you give to other people. And that perspective I think is so important for people to understand. You know. And and what that leads to is again, I'm the philosophy, I'm the nerd in the family. Is in Hinduism, there's the web of Indra, the web of gem, right, that idea, and then every every intersection of a of a of a web of a net, there's a gem. That gem is us. So we reflect who we are from that gem, and that reflection affects everything around us. Right, So that we're not advocating you're going to go ahead and change the world. Is what when you begin to live from you, you automatically radiates and everything around you gets affected by it.

40:56 Right. And the idea is that it doesn't matter what you do. Right. Again, our point of expression is a resous quest. Right. It could be you making the best sandwich that ever existed, you know, or you have to find that for you. I can't prescribe to go into real estate and do this and do that. It's like the beauty of life is in the diversity of life. Right. You go in nature and you see all the beautiful colors and everything else that's out there. You have that as well, right, and you have to we have to help people get to that. And again, unfortunately, in my experience with the education system, going through it and working in it, that's not what we do. We actually are taking away the beauty of what it means to be a human being, and we are creating functions things that this is who you are. And then and we have to shift that, you know, we have to shift that.

41:55 So true, so true. And you know, the thought that comes to my mind and the question that comes to my mind with your book Assault Quest, Okay, when people read that book, what are they going to gain? What you're going to do for them? Essentially, what we've talked about today, what we do is what or what we've done, is we've taken all of the thoughts that we've talked about today, all of the processes, the experiences, the shadow work, the integration, the hero's journey is in those pages, and we invite the reader into taking this quest, taking this journey. It's it's a transformational approach to life.

42:36 We're trying to get people to understand we're bringing them into our world, into our experiences so that they can now take a journey of their own, a quest of their own. Okay, And it goes back to also to be an aware, right, Yeah, it's being aware. I mean, if I had to boil it down to one thing, it's like, you know, the more you know, the more you're able to understand things and life, the better that the better you could discover where you fit in, you know, independently, like Wayne Dyer said, independently of the good opinion of other people. Yeah, so how do people find your book? Well, we are going to be launching our book and I think we're doing it.

43:19 And our book is out already, our book, Yeah, okay, it's out already, and they could go to s Q empowerment dot com. You'll be able to see the book in there. You'll be able to connect with us. We we we do what do you call it, some some lessons that we put out on the regular basis. But if you want to take a look at the book, just go to our website at sq empowerment dot com and just stay connected with us. We'd love to hear. Okay, so say that a little slower, please here your website. It's a SQ empowerment dot Com. Okay, because I have a soul quest a Soul's quest dot com. Yeah, well we where we're integrating. Yeah, it's eight Oh really okay, Yeah, it's ASQ empowerment dot Com.

44:08 Sorry for that. Yeah, And our book will be available at this point, yes, and you can find it on our website and with all the other materials and curriculum. You know, people can be members, uh and receive our newsletters interact with us. That's great, and that was gonna be my next question. So going to that website, they can find you, they can find your book. That's wonderful, and so kind of as we close, what would be a final message that you want to share with the audience. The final message will be listen to that voice inside. There's a voice that tells you when you're on the path, and there's a voice that tells you that you're on the path. It tells you by how the way you feel your emotions. Well that listen to that voice, follow that voice, and explore more importantly, the question as to who am I explore that question, see what answers should come up, and I challenge you to go beyond on the normal responses go beyond your roles, go beyond your functions, and find a deeper meaning of who you truly are.

45:08 I love it. Well, guys, thanks so much. This has been a great conversation. I love it. Thank you so much for having us. It's been a great conversation. Thank you well. I really appreciate it. Folks, thanks for listening. I hope you've enjoyed it and we look forward to having you join us again soon. And this is doctor Doug saying, now must day I Must say thank you.