“A Creative Path to Your Hidden Superpowers and True Calling”

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This program is designed to provide general
information with regards to the subject matters covered.

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This information is given with the understanding
that neither the hosts, guests,

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sponsors, or station are engaged in
rendering any specific and personal medical, financial,

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legal counseling, professional service, or
any advice. You should seek the

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services of competent professionals before applying or
trying any suggested ideas. At the end

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of the day, it's not about
what you have or even what you've accomplished.

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It's about what you've done with those
accomplishments. It's about who you've lifted

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up, who you've made better.
It's about what you've given back Thanzel Washington,

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Welcome to Inspire Vision. Our sole
purpose is to elevate the lives of

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others and to inspire you to do
the same. Michelle, Welcome to the

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show. How are you. I'm
good. Thank you so much for having

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me. I'm excited to be here. Oh I'm really excited for this.

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I think it's going to be a
lot of fun. So, now where

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you located? I am in Portland, Oregon. Oh my goodness. Okay,

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so let's have you tell the audience
a little bit about yourself. What

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I find interesting is the stories that
bring people to the point where they are

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when we're doing the podcast. So
I'd love for you to share with the

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audience your story. Once upon a
time, I'm just having fun. I

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got my doctorate in cognitive psychology at
Princeton University, and I went on to

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become a psychology professor. But I
kept feeling like something was missing. I

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just couldn't quite put my finger on
what it was. And as time went

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by, I discovered that I could
sing. I discovered that I could write

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songs. I discovered that I wasn't
bad on the guitar, and I realized

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that I wanted to be a rock
and roll star. I wanted to be

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a musician, a professional musician.
I wanted to make that leap. So

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a few people I was at Santa
Clara University at the time, a few

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people thought I was crazy. But
I did it, and I did get

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a record deal, and it just
made me think that people like me don't

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know what all of their gifts are, what all of their strengths and talents

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are. And so after I had
a career as a musician, one day

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I had a DJ asked me,
Hey, do you think you'll ever go

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back to teaching, And I'm like, no, I'm a rock star,

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why would I want to do that? But then I realized I really did

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want to go back to teaching,
because if I could find a gift I

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didn't know I had, maybe I'm
a good teacher. Maybe I could help

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other people find gifts that they don't
know they have. So I started teaching

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workshops and I've been doing it for
twenty years. Wow, that's fantastic,

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you know, And it's so interesting
that, you know, as you said,

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teaching my daughter. My twenty six
year old daughter actually was heading towards

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a PhD in sociology research and she
hit the masters, got her masters,

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and then it's like I get this
call that dad, I'm not sure I

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want to continue, And it's like, you know, what good for you?

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Take your time to go out and
do something, and you know you

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can always go back. But if
you spend another three to four years working

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on that PhD and then you find
you don't like it, you've lost four

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to five years. So it's fascinating
how people do that. And you know,

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what's interesting to me is how many
people are actually doing something that they

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think they should be doing. And
you know what, at least based on

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some of my research, and you're
going to have a lot more information on

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this. What are the physical effects, what are the health effects, what

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are the mental effects? For someone
who has been told this is what you

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need to do and so they end
up following that advice and then find themselves

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five years, ten years, twenty
years in that profession. I think the

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number one thing that people will feel
is not alive anymore. They won't have

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energy anymore. I mean, they
can develop all kinds of little problems like

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carpal tunnel and you know, shoulder
issues. If they have tech jobs or

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they're in front of a computer a
lot and it's not something that's they're calling,

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they're more likely to have little illnesses
like that creep up. But I

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would say the number one thing that
happens is that your life force just sort

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of drains out of you. You
can it causes depression, anxiety, and

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just sort of a little bit of
deadness in the heart. You know,

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well, and you know it's it's
interesting. I mean, I come from

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a fan only have five boys,
right, and my dad was the university

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professor taught actually you loved us.
He taught classical music. He was a

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voice teacher and yeah, yeah the
internet and nationally known one. But anyway,

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it's interesting because he told each one
of us, you will get an

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advanced degree, and I'm not paying
for it. My dad didn't pay for

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my degree either, so it was
it was really interesting. Older brother Harvard

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business. Uh, you know,
a couple of attorneys, me and dentists

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and so on and so forth.
One brother did not do it. He

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did not go to college, and
I think that he experienced a lot of

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difficulty with my dad because my dad
was really not happy with that. Of

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course, the guess who's the most
I guess who is the one that,

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yeah, financially is has done the
best? Seriously, Yeah, serious,

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seriously. And and so it's so
interesting that, you know, we get

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pushed to do something and we do
that. And you know, do I

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know whether my brothers were happy or
not. I can't tell you. Was

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I happy doing dentistry. I enjoyed
it for quite a while, but ultimately

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some physical issues came up. And
as I look back on that, it's

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like, Wow, that is just
amazing how that can happen. Yeah,

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I think the body starts to shut
down you know, we're we occupy bodies,

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we're spirits in bodies, and if
we're not on course, if we're

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not on our path, our bodies
will let us know. So what happens?

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Why why do we not really from
the get go understand what our passion

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is and what our gifts are?
Yeah, thank you for asking that question,

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because that's sort of what I've been
devoting my whole life to trying to

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understand. So I've been teaching these
workshops for over twenty years and I've had

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so many thousands of clients now,
and I've noticed that no two people are

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alike, and not even twins.
I think that people come in with a

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unique purpose and unique gifts to you
know, use to follow that purpose.

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But as soon as we come into
this world, there's a lot of rules,

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and we're surrounded by different sorts of
tribes, groups of people that we

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belong to. Number one, the
family, and often the family that you're

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in does not see your gifts,
or they see them, they don't understand

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them, or they might ignore them, they don't notice them. And then

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the next tribe that we're in our
schools, and a lot of times teachers

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don't recognize our gifts, or they
might even shame us for a guests because

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we're not doing what they expect.
And then there's the culture that we live

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in. So I can give you
an example. You know, when I

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was growing up, I had a
gift for playing soccer, but I grew

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up at a time when girls were
not allowed to play soccer, so I

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never got to use that gift.
So we come in with these unique gifts,

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but the world tells us to conform, conform, be like everybody else,

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And so if a gift isn't recognized
or if it's shamed, we sort

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of take that gift and we stuff
it way deep inside, deep into the

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unconscious, and we forget all about
it, although it's sort of there trying

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to get our attention the whole time, but it's sort of a protection mechanism.

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But the problem is is you start
to go through life and you start

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to feel empty, you start to
feel like something's missing, like I did,

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you know when I was a professor. So I think it's mostly that

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power of the society around us telling
us to conform, to be like everyone

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else, to do what we're supposed
to do, Like your father wanting everybody

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to go to school and get a
degree. That happens a lot. Yeah.

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Oh yeah, Well, and you
mentioned one thing that I'm very cognizant

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of right now. You talk about
how children, as young people can be

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shamed because of the gifts that they
have, and not only by family,

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but by teachers. And you know, I'm very I've been doing a few

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podcasts about bullying and that's not where
we're going to go today. But just

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as a brief thought and comment,
what do parents? Number one? What

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would you advise parents as far as
as they're raising their children, How can

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they help their children to discover their
gifts rather than shame them? Number one?

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And then number two, what's your
comments about teachers that are shaming their

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students. Well, I used to
be a teacher, so I tried really

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hard not to do that. I
think for parents, and you know,

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granted, parents are so busy and
they've got so much they're trying to do,

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but really, what my number one
recommendation is is just to slow down

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and watch your child. Just watch
your child, pay attention to what they're

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doing, pay attention to what draws
them. There's a very good chance it's

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going to fall outside the expectations that
you have for that child. You know,

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you did a wonderful job of bringing
a human being into the world,

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and I just thank you for that. But that human being has its own

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purpose and it has its own gifts, he or she or you know,

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and to give them permission to discover
who they are and to support that.

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And for as far as teachers are
concerned, I you know, when I

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taught at Santa Clair University, for
example, I remember once I went into

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a room where the teachers hung out, professors hung out, and I could

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tell that there was one professor there
who was going to deliberately give one of

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his students a bad grade because he
didn't like the way he did something.

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It wasn't it just wasn't what he
thought was the right way to do it,

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and he wanted to punish him.
And there's no need for that.

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There's no need for that. There's
so many different ways to express writing,

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for example, whatever field you want
to go into, there's so many different

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ways to do that, and to
allow students to have their own unique take

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on it. Yeah, that's what
I would say. And I always tried

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to stay out of my students' ways. In fact, I would try to

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help them figure out what it was
that they wanted to do. They would

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often come to my office hours.
I had so many of my students come

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to my office hours, it was
amazing asking for advice about what they should

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do. And I always said,
follow your heart, you know, just

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follow your heart, and that often
took them in a very very good direction.

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But it's not what other professors were
telling them. Well, and you

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know, as interesting as you talk
about parents, and you know expectations,

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how do you help a parent?
Okay, how do you help a parent

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to recognize excuse me, that they
have expectations that may have been forced on

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them by their parents or by society
or whatever. How do you help a

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parent to actually recognize that? Okay, you know what, I do not

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have to put my expectations on my
child. I need to allow them to

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discover their own guests. How do
you help a parent to do that?

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I just love that you even asked
that question. I think that just that

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question is halfway there, just to
even know that that's what's going on.

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To raise awareness that you might unconsciously
be putting expectations onto your child without knowing

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it, you will know what you
need to do is try to see what

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the signs are. So it'll be
a contraction in the stomach, it'll be

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a tightening in the jaw, it
will be a shaking of the head.

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It will be a you'll say no
somehow to something that your child is doing.

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And to step back and examine that
no. Where is that no coming

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from? And maybe can you just
you don't even have to figure it out

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in the moment, just relax it
a little bit and look at your child

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again and just see if you can
observe them with a sort of you know,

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in a sort of a not a
detached to way that's not exactly the

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way I want to put it,
but just neutral, a neutral stance,

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like pretend they're not your child for
a moment and just watch them and see

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what they do. You might be
able to pick up on something that you

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haven't seen before. Yes, and
how many? I mean, as you

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look at what you've done and the
people that you've worked with, what would

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you say is the percentage? And
there is an unfair question, but really

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what's the percentage of those that know
their gift from the beginning and follow that

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versus those of us that end up
in some type of profession or some type

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of work of some sort that really
it's not their gift. It's very interesting

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you should ask, and I hope
it's okay to mention that. I also

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have a podcast and I interview people
who knew those gifts so they found their

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calling, and I work with clients
who didn't know those gifts and so they

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didn't know what their calling was.
And you know, the interesting thing about

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both of them, both of them, both sets of people had gifts early

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on. The difference was the people
who knew their gifts were supported. They

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were supported by their families, somebody
and their family saw it, a teacher

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encouraged them. Only takes one person, even where they just happened to fit

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in a culture that supported what they
do. Naturally. The people that I

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work with who didn't remember their gifts
because the gifts were there, were not

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supported, so they stuffed them down. They forgot who they were, and

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then they just started listening to what
the world told them to be. That

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is the chief difference. Everybody's got
those gifts from the get go. Well,

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and you know, it was fascinating. I think that sometimes it can

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be very dramatic. I remember and
I've shared the story before, but you

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know, I had my dentists in
dental practice for twenty one years, and

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then ultimately there was some physical issues
that didn't allow me to do that anymore.

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Went back to business school and was, you know, decided I was

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going to do some coaching and helping
people with small businesses. And I was

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enjoying that. My dad passed away
in twenty ten, and I remember that

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he had taught at Northwestern University in
Evanston, Illinois, and they decided to

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have a memorial concert for him,
and so they invited us all, you

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know, they asked permission. Of
course, we gave it, and so

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we all went back and they brought
all of the you know, as many

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as could the singers that were out
doing operas and everything, both internationally as

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well as nationally, and talking about
stories about my dad and so on and

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so forth, and then and some
singing. And I walked out of there

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and I looked at my brothers and
my little sister, and you know,

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I thought, you know, did
you really get what? Did you hear

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what I heard today? And you
know, they're looking at me strange,

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and it's like, you know,
here was the story that I got at

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that memorial concert from hearing everyone speak
as well as singing number one. Yeah,

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Norman. He was an amazing voice
teacher. But what he really did

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for us was teach us to when
he gave us the strength and the ability

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to win, to love, to
live. And that's what changed me.

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And all of a sudden, I
thought, you know what, here's my

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dad, who's a great who was
a great voice teacher. But on the

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side he affected his students in a
much more powerful way. In fact,

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one student told the story about how
they used to play tennis, which was

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weird because there's years and years apart, but they were friends and how every

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once in a while my dad would
win when he was playing in the seventies,

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right, And he says, I
could never figure it out and finally

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understood he had willed me off the
court. And then he shares a story

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about how he was over in Germany
and was auditioning for a particular opera,

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coming against the top German tenor,
and he tells the story about how he

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just worked hard and you know,
practiced whatever song everybody knew that you have

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to do, and he says,
when it was all finished, not only

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did I get that one, but
I got the entire season, And he

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says, as I walked off the
stage, I thought, what on earth?

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And then it hit me I had
willed them off the stage. Thank

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you, Norman for teaching me that. Wow. And I think that when

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I heard these stories, it was
like, you know what, Yeah,

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I'm doing this, I'm doing that. I'm helping people. But ultimately I

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need to be able to make a
difference in people's lives. I need to

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do something that allows me, whether
it's directly or on the side, to

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be able to help people. And
I think that's part of what motivated me

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to start doing this podcast. And
obviously for you it's a similar thing.

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So do you find that sometimes people
have these amazing aha moments to where they

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realize that, you know what,
this is my purpose? Oh? Absolutely.

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I see it all the time.
In my workshops. I see the

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light go on in somebody's eyes.
In my case, I often see it

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with respect to discovering a gift that
they didn't know they had. So the

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light will go off and they'll realize, oh my god, I can paint.

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I didn't know I could paint,
you know. Or I had a

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woman who was eighty four years old
who learned that she could dance. That's

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and she could do it still because
she had the ability. But absolutely,

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I think it happens all the time. And also, are you familiar with

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Carl Jungian psychology Jungian analysis at all. Well, I don't think I am,

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but maybe as you explain it,
and maybe I just wanted to yeah,

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just with respect with what you said. According to a lot of Yunian

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analysts, we have sort of a
couple of stages in our life. In

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the first stage is where you sort
of dutiful lee get a job, you

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raise your children. You know,
you check the boxes, you do what

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you should. But in the second
half of life, something deeper starts calling

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to you your purpose, really something, yourself, your true self, your

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authentic self, what you came here
to do. It starts calling you because

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you've done that sort of work to
you know, check the boxes in the

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first half of life. But now
in the second half of life, it

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pulls you in deeper. And I
think a lot of times, like as

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you're explaining, it's happened to me
too, I just want to give back

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even more, you know, while
I'm still here, I hear you,

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I'm exactly the same way. And
and you know what I think a lot

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of people don't even realize is that
when you do start doing that, it

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fills you with so much joy and
energy. You know, you think you're

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being selfless, but you get something
from it too, just you know,

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like a side dish. Well,
and it's interesting what you went through because

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you found your gift of seeing and
and you know, in writing music and

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so forth, and then all of
a sudden you've found another purpose now and

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you have moved on to a different
purpose. So do you find that oftentimes

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for people's lives that they and it
kind of goes about what you were talking

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about with a psychology account concept that
they have multiple purposes and just as we

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move forward in life, we discover
new ones. Yes, well some people

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do. I think some people.
It's different for different people. Some people

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do have a strong calling that they
do their whole life, but many people,

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we have many gifts, and I
think at different stages of our lives,

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different gifts all at us. Also, I like to refer to gifts

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as superpowers because it, you know, it makes people notice more like if

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I say, oh, you have
a superpower, but I like the analogy

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of a superhero because if you think
of Superman, for example, he doesn't

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just fly, he has X ray
vision, he can freeze things with his

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breath, you know, all kinds
of things like this, And likewise,

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human beings have lots of different gifts, and I think sometimes we're called to

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do different bring different parts of ourselves
to the table, depending on where we

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are in our lives. So yes, I think it's very normal for people

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to have It's like a multifaceted purpose, or I call it a constellation calling

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you've got more facets to it.
Then you might think, well, and

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you know, it's interesting. As
I was doing some business consulting for small

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businesses, every once in a while
I come across someone who suddenly said,

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you know, discovered a gift or
discovered a passion. And it's like,

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Okay, I'm going to I'm going
to quit my job or I'm going to

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close my company and I'm going to
go do this, and I'm going whoa

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slow down a minute, because I've
seen people that chose to do that and

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then they find themselves not able to
make a living and it's really a struggle.

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And so what do you recommend to
people is they discover a passion,

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as they discover a gift, what
do you recommend to them when they say,

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Okay, I'm going to quit my
job or I'm going to close my

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company and do this, what do
you recommend to them. I think it's

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really important to have one foot in
each world, the world that you're already

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stable and the world that you want
to go into, to try to do

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it at the same time, to
take this gift that you are discovering,

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and to do it on the side
as a side project, even if you

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are starting to get tired of the
career that you're in or it's not as

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fulfilling as it might be. If
you engage in a passion on the side,

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it gives you so much energy,
It gives you so much a liveness

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that you're able, you know,
you're able to actually bring that energy back

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to work. And there's research that
comes out of San Francisco State University that

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shows that people who have a creative
project are they get better evaluations at work,

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they get promoted more at work.
So you can actually gain from,

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you know, sort of developing your
talent on the side while you keep your

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job and just start, I'll give
you Is it okay if I tell a

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quick story to yes, yes,
okay. So remember once I had an

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attorney come to one of my workshops. This was a two day workshop a

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Saturday and then the next Saturday.
And he he, you know, he

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was an attorney. He had two
kids in high school and a stay at

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home mom wife, and he was
starting to feel a little restless about being

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an attorney. He didn't really want
to do it anymore. And something felt,

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you know, just like it was
missing from his life. And so,

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of course, my first thing is
to try to help people find out

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whatever that is. So I said
to him, just I want you to

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just pretend that you don't have a
wife and you don't have children, and

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you don't have to be an attorney. What would you do? And I

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could see like his eyebrow went up, and I'm like, no wife.

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And I said, you know,
it's a thought experiment. It's just a

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thought experiment in the air. I
don't mean that you have to do it

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out in the world. So so
he said, okay, I'll try that.

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And my class was a and I
don't know if you're familiar with California,

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but it was in Santa Cruz and
then he drove He lived in Monterey,

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so he drove down to Monterey after
that class. The next week he

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comes in and he says, I
know what it is. I know what

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it is. And I said,
what happened? He said, I was

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driving through Slenas, the fields of
Selenas, and all of a sudden,

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I just pulled over. I got
out of my car and I was doing

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this because the fields they looked like
they were being lit up from the inside.

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I want to be a photographer.
And he also said, I remember

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I wanted to be a photographer when
I was young. So what Dan did

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was he ended up and this is
what I would recommend. He ended up

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shooting photos on the side on the
weekends, on lunch breaks, after work,

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before the sun set, whenever he
got a chance. But he did

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not stop being an attorney. Now
you might think now I would wear him

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down. It didn't like I was
saying before. It filled him with all

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of this energy, amazing amounts of
energy. And after about a year he

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had a lot of photos put together
and he invited me to come down to

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a showing in Monterey. He had
two paint or sorry, two photos that

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were going to be displayed alongside professional
So I went, you know, and

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his wife was there and his kids
were there, and one of the photos

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was just a beautiful sunset, Monterey
sunset, and it was just so I

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was so happy to see him flanked
by his family who were supporting him.

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He never gave up anything, but
there he had that photo. It's sold

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and he started selling photographs. And
so with Dan, the idea was,

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you know, in a few years, his kids will go through college and

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they'll be done. And then as
he accumulates more and more photos, sells

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a few on the side, he
can start making that business happen on the

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side if he wants to. And
he doesn't even have to because a lot

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of times when we find our passion, we don't have to do it for

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a job. I mean, it's
great if we can, but we don't

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have to to feel fulfilled by it. So that's what I would recommend try

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to do, you know, keep
both worlds going for as long as you

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can, and then make the leap
when you feel ready. Yeah, and

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I love to use the terms.
You know, it's either both and or

359
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either or, and the truth is
both and is what works. So I

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love that story because it's so true. And you know, oftentimes when we

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find that passion and we're able to
do that on the side, as you

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say, it helps us to be
better in our work, and ultimately we

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may find that it's a good enough
balance that we don't have to make that

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change, that we can keep both. That's right. That's right. Well,

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And you know, as you've been
doing these workshops, what have you

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found are the key elements to someone
realizing that they haven't found their purpose yet

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or they haven't discovered some of those
gifts that should be there. You mentioned

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that he was not sure he wanted
to do, you know, law anymore,

369
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practice law anymore? Have you found
that there are some key elements that

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if someone were to stop for a
minute and become aware of themselves, which

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we don't do very often, But
if they were to do that, what

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are some of the indicators that they
could be aware of that would say to

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them, you know what, you
have another purpose, you have other gifts.

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It's time to discover what they are. A lot of the people who

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take my workshops have had some sort
of transition happen in their lives. I

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just want to tell you this first, and then I will definitely answer your

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question. But they may have lost
a job, they may have gone through

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a divorce, they may have a
sudden illness. This is a lot of

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times the kind of people that originally
or initially come to me, So they're

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already in some sort of transition,
and you might think that that's a horrible

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time to be in your life,
but it's actually a window of opportunity because

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these people come to my workshops because
they know that they're missing something. They

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know that something's off, something's missing, something's not right about their lives.

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Clearly because things have sort of fallen
apart. It's not necessarily a bad thing

385
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for things to fall apart because it
gives you this huge, huge playing ground

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to investigate who you really are and
who you might want to become once you

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get the courage to do that.
So I just wanted to say that first.

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But some of the indicators that you're
not following your purpose are you're agitated,

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you feel restless, you feel like
something's off, you're jealous of other

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people and what they're doing. That's
a really good clue if you watch somebody

391
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doing something and you find yourself being
a little bit too critical about how they're

392
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doing it. It might be because
you want to do that too, but

393
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you haven't admitted that yet, so
you're just going to be hard on them,

394
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you know what I mean? That's
a that's a good clue. What

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else? You start realizing that there's
this dream that's been on the back burner

396
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and it seems like it's tugging at
you. It starts to get in your

397
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head. It starts you start to
have ideas about doing it again. Uh,

398
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something that you might have put away
because a lot of times people do

399
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sort of know what they want to
do, but then they lose the confidence

400
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or they don't have the opportunity to
do it, and they put that dream

401
00:30:36.720 --> 00:30:40.720
sort of on the on the side. Uh. And that it just starts

402
00:30:40.799 --> 00:30:42.960
to say it tug at them and
say, you know, didn't you always

403
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want to teach? Don't you like
teaching? Don't you like explaining things?

404
00:30:47.039 --> 00:30:49.519
You really like explaining things to people? You know, just things like that,

405
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they'll they'll just start coming to your
mind, or you might even hear

406
00:30:55.240 --> 00:30:57.920
you know, it's almost like a
gift. Might be saying just look at

407
00:30:57.920 --> 00:31:00.839
me, look at me. I
like to sing, I like to sing

408
00:31:00.880 --> 00:31:06.519
in the shower, or I'm always
writing things down, or you know,

409
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sometimes we're in this is kind of
interesting, and you might find this interesting.

410
00:31:11.160 --> 00:31:17.359
Sometimes we're following we're almost following our
purpose. We're kind of we're doing

411
00:31:17.359 --> 00:31:21.799
it, but we're in the wrong
field. Like for example, there was

412
00:31:21.839 --> 00:31:26.720
one woman who wanted to be a
writer, and she did become a tech

413
00:31:26.759 --> 00:31:30.720
writer in Silicon Valley, but she
was feeling restless and feeling like something was

414
00:31:30.720 --> 00:31:34.119
off and something was missing, and
she also didn't look like a tech writer.

415
00:31:34.279 --> 00:31:40.599
She wore bunny slippers and she had
long blonde hair, and she was

416
00:31:40.680 --> 00:31:45.839
in the margins. She was writing
little ideas for screenplays. That's how it

417
00:31:45.839 --> 00:31:48.319
comes out like on the side,
Like it just sneaks out, like when

418
00:31:48.359 --> 00:31:51.480
you're not expecting it. Your pen
moves over to the side and writes an

419
00:31:51.519 --> 00:31:55.680
idea for a screenplay. And I
encouraged her to sort of pay attention to

420
00:31:55.720 --> 00:32:01.359
those marginalized writings and long story shorts. She ended up writing five screenplays that

421
00:32:01.400 --> 00:32:08.720
got picked up by Disney, and
she eventually wrote and then directed and produced

422
00:32:08.759 --> 00:32:14.000
her own movie. And now she
lives in Hollywood. So she was almost

423
00:32:14.160 --> 00:32:15.920
I mean, she was a writer, but she was in the wrong field,

424
00:32:15.960 --> 00:32:20.640
you know what I mean. That's
also sometimes what's in front of people,

425
00:32:20.680 --> 00:32:25.640
which is why I think it's worth
taking your defenses down and just let

426
00:32:25.720 --> 00:32:30.160
yourself get a little soft and just
let yourself really look at things, because

427
00:32:30.240 --> 00:32:34.480
the change that you might need to
make might not even I mean, that

428
00:32:34.680 --> 00:32:38.960
was a big change, but honestly, she was so built for that world

429
00:32:39.279 --> 00:32:45.039
that it wasn't hard for her to
make. You know, so often when

430
00:32:45.119 --> 00:32:49.000
you do find the marginalized voice in
your head, that little voice that is

431
00:32:49.039 --> 00:32:53.119
whispering to you to do something,
if you follow it, you'll find that

432
00:32:53.400 --> 00:32:58.240
as you know, Joseph Campbell says, doors open where there used to be

433
00:32:58.319 --> 00:33:00.519
walls. You know, it's true, there's some truth to that. So

434
00:33:00.519 --> 00:33:04.160
that's one of the ways also that
you can start to see that, oh

435
00:33:04.200 --> 00:33:07.200
yeah, that is a path I
should be on. So what you know,

436
00:33:07.440 --> 00:33:10.920
as the listeners are listening and as
they you know, as they stop

437
00:33:12.000 --> 00:33:15.799
and start to consider what are the
what are the questions that they can ask

438
00:33:15.839 --> 00:33:22.200
themselves to really find out what their
missing talents are if they're finding that they're

439
00:33:22.279 --> 00:33:28.319
really not satisfied and happy with the
way their life is going. Yeah,

440
00:33:28.359 --> 00:33:30.279
So one of the I have a
few questions that I like to ask people.

441
00:33:30.279 --> 00:33:37.039
But one of them is what comes
naturally to you? It's really easy

442
00:33:37.119 --> 00:33:44.759
for you, and you can especially
know this if you compare yourself to others.

443
00:33:44.799 --> 00:33:49.599
So for example, once I was
getting coffee in a coffee shop and

444
00:33:49.759 --> 00:33:53.720
the guy that was taking my order
was doing crossword puzzle and he was saying

445
00:33:53.720 --> 00:33:57.400
to the guy in the back,
you know what's a four letter word for?

446
00:33:57.759 --> 00:34:00.319
I forget what the question was,
but the guy in the back goes

447
00:34:00.559 --> 00:34:01.839
reap, you know. It was
like he just, you know, had

448
00:34:01.880 --> 00:34:04.839
it. It was easy for him, but not easy for the guy that

449
00:34:04.920 --> 00:34:07.800
was serving me coffee. It's easy
for me to hear music in my head,

450
00:34:08.079 --> 00:34:10.519
but not easy for somebody else to
hear music in their head. And

451
00:34:10.639 --> 00:34:15.039
I didn't figure that out for a
really long time. So what just comes

452
00:34:15.119 --> 00:34:22.400
easily to you? Another big one
is when you do the super When you

453
00:34:22.400 --> 00:34:25.400
you know, use the superpower,
it puts you in the moment, It

454
00:34:25.440 --> 00:34:31.599
puts you in the now. So
for example, when I write a song,

455
00:34:32.239 --> 00:34:37.840
uh, time disappears. A woman
I was working with, she thought

456
00:34:37.960 --> 00:34:40.599
she was a high powered executive.
She was really burning out. She wanted

457
00:34:40.639 --> 00:34:45.920
to find a creative outlet to sort
of balance her out. And she thought

458
00:34:45.960 --> 00:34:47.199
she should do writing, you know, be a writer like her father.

459
00:34:47.679 --> 00:34:51.559
But eventually it just didn't wasn't when
she would look at the clock, it

460
00:34:51.599 --> 00:34:53.920
wasn't. It wasn't happening for her. And I asked her to experiment,

461
00:34:54.079 --> 00:34:58.400
try some other things, and she
tried a few things, and eventually she

462
00:34:58.519 --> 00:35:01.119
tried painting, and she went up
to her attic. She sort of set

463
00:35:01.119 --> 00:35:05.639
it up and she went up and
she started painting, and hours would go

464
00:35:05.719 --> 00:35:08.320
by and her husband would be downstairs
and making dinner for her, and she

465
00:35:08.320 --> 00:35:15.119
would never come down because she was
just the time disappeared, and then eventually

466
00:35:15.119 --> 00:35:17.480
she would come down and he would
heat up the meal. But that's how

467
00:35:17.519 --> 00:35:22.079
she discovered, Oh, painting is
what it was. And then just I

468
00:35:22.119 --> 00:35:27.199
wanted to include that she may she
did a portrait of her husband and won

469
00:35:27.280 --> 00:35:30.960
an award for it also, so
he got back. Another thing is just

470
00:35:31.039 --> 00:35:35.719
like, you know, what fills
you with passion or what makes you come

471
00:35:35.760 --> 00:35:38.880
alive. So you know, before
our interview, I was just sort of

472
00:35:38.880 --> 00:35:42.599
thinking back to myself about some of
the things I do, so I could

473
00:35:42.639 --> 00:35:45.119
refresh my memory, you know,
so i'd be ready to talk to you.

474
00:35:45.519 --> 00:35:46.960
And just as I was thinking about
the people I work with and some

475
00:35:47.000 --> 00:35:51.239
of the stories I could tell,
I just I just had so much more

476
00:35:51.400 --> 00:35:53.400
energy than I had a few minutes
before that. So you can just notice

477
00:35:53.440 --> 00:35:58.800
your energy level goes up when you
start to do something that's a better fit

478
00:35:58.880 --> 00:36:01.440
for you. And another thing is
and and we were talking about it right

479
00:36:01.480 --> 00:36:07.599
at the beginning, what were you
interested in when you were a child.

480
00:36:07.159 --> 00:36:10.559
And sometimes it takes a little you
know, legwork, a little digging to

481
00:36:10.599 --> 00:36:15.400
go back there. But most of
us had those gifts when we were young.

482
00:36:16.079 --> 00:36:21.280
And if you know, we probably
got an inkling or somebody might have

483
00:36:21.360 --> 00:36:25.760
seen us. I remember going out
with a gentleman who was in the tech

484
00:36:25.760 --> 00:36:30.119
world, an engineer, and I
spoke to his mother once since she said,

485
00:36:30.159 --> 00:36:32.159
you know, he was just always
taking everything apart, you know,

486
00:36:32.280 --> 00:36:36.639
five year years old. He's just
like taking everything apart and putting it back

487
00:36:36.679 --> 00:36:39.840
together, you know. So sometimes
a parent does notice, so they might

488
00:36:39.920 --> 00:36:45.679
know if you don't. And another
and this is sort of points to what

489
00:36:45.760 --> 00:36:52.679
you were talking about doing this podcast, is what is intrinsically rewarding to you

490
00:36:53.559 --> 00:36:58.320
when you do it? You are
fulfilled. You don't even need to be

491
00:36:58.360 --> 00:37:00.199
paid for it, although you know, sure it's nice to be paid for

492
00:37:00.280 --> 00:37:06.159
what you do, but you're just
fulfilled by doing it. That's a huge

493
00:37:06.199 --> 00:37:10.599
indicator of what your calling is or
what your gift is. That. I

494
00:37:10.639 --> 00:37:15.599
love that. What are some of
the other stories that you've experienced with people

495
00:37:15.880 --> 00:37:20.639
that where they have literally moved from
one area to another area and found their

496
00:37:20.679 --> 00:37:25.039
passion. Well, you know,
this is a story I love telling.

497
00:37:25.159 --> 00:37:30.480
So it was the first workshop I
ever taught, and there was a police

498
00:37:30.519 --> 00:37:36.199
detective, a woman I'll call her
Maria. She had fiery red hair,

499
00:37:36.760 --> 00:37:42.840
and she came into my workshop and
she something wasn't quite working in her career

500
00:37:42.880 --> 00:37:45.400
anymore. She was only in her
forties, but she felt like she had

501
00:37:45.400 --> 00:37:51.280
to retire early. This was in
San Jose, and you know, she

502
00:37:51.440 --> 00:37:55.639
thought that she had to completely change
what she was doing. And she had

503
00:37:55.639 --> 00:38:00.440
a passion and it was a real
passion, and that was for traveling.

504
00:38:00.159 --> 00:38:07.400
And so she thought that what she
should do is write travel brochures or you

505
00:38:07.400 --> 00:38:10.000
know, something about traveling. She
would become a travel writer. So every

506
00:38:10.039 --> 00:38:14.599
week she would come into my class
and she would like try to be writing

507
00:38:14.599 --> 00:38:17.480
these travel brochures, but they were
never happening, they were never coming to

508
00:38:17.559 --> 00:38:21.679
her. And I could tell she
didn't like writing, but she had a

509
00:38:21.719 --> 00:38:25.280
passion for travel. I could see
that that was true. And I could

510
00:38:25.320 --> 00:38:30.880
also see that what was true is
she loved being a police detective. She

511
00:38:30.039 --> 00:38:35.559
loved it. This is getting to
your and idea, this and that.

512
00:38:36.119 --> 00:38:39.239
And I said to her, Maria, why do you think you have to

513
00:38:39.280 --> 00:38:45.320
be a police detective or you travel? Maybe it's possible that you could do

514
00:38:45.559 --> 00:38:50.280
both. And she really took that
in. I could see that she really

515
00:38:50.320 --> 00:38:54.599
took that in. And a few
months later she got a job with United

516
00:38:54.679 --> 00:39:00.760
Nations. She went to Bosnia training
the local police forced there to adopt human

517
00:39:00.840 --> 00:39:06.639
rights procedures. So she got to
travel and she got to be a police

518
00:39:06.880 --> 00:39:10.000
officer, but in a much much
bigger way. I just I just love

519
00:39:10.039 --> 00:39:15.480
that she did that. Oh that's
fascinating, And you know, it's it's

520
00:39:15.519 --> 00:39:22.719
so interesting as we see society right
now, how how much of an effect

521
00:39:22.719 --> 00:39:28.599
do you think not finding our passion, not really doing that which we really

522
00:39:28.639 --> 00:39:35.599
have the gifts to do, is
affecting the overall culture right now of society

523
00:39:35.679 --> 00:39:38.639
that we're experiencing, which right now
is not very good. No, it's

524
00:39:38.639 --> 00:39:43.840
not very good. I think that's
such an important question. I think it

525
00:39:43.880 --> 00:39:46.800
has a lot to do with what's
happening right now, because if you don't

526
00:39:46.960 --> 00:39:52.719
find your true gifts, you start
to feel angry, upset, disappointed,

527
00:39:52.760 --> 00:39:58.440
and you can often project that onto
somebody else. It's somebody else's fault,

528
00:39:58.519 --> 00:40:01.320
it's not mine. But even more
than that, something that I wanted to

529
00:40:01.320 --> 00:40:06.239
say, and something I deeply believe
because I work with a lot of millennials

530
00:40:06.320 --> 00:40:13.239
and gen z and they're inheriting a
really difficult world right and again, I've

531
00:40:13.239 --> 00:40:17.000
seen so many people that I've worked
with find a purpose, find gifts they

532
00:40:17.000 --> 00:40:22.719
didn't know they have, and often
when they do, they use that gift

533
00:40:22.800 --> 00:40:28.679
in service somehow. And I feel
like we were put each of us,

534
00:40:28.960 --> 00:40:30.639
every single person was put on this
earth. I mean, why are we

535
00:40:30.800 --> 00:40:35.400
all living right now, right now, in this point in time. I

536
00:40:35.400 --> 00:40:37.800
don't think it's an accident. I
think each of us has a piece of

537
00:40:37.800 --> 00:40:40.960
the puzzle to help solve this.
It's not like we're supposed to wait for

538
00:40:42.000 --> 00:40:45.039
somebody else to solve it. We're
all supposed to get on board and it's

539
00:40:45.079 --> 00:40:49.159
my deep, deep belief that when
people will just take some time to get

540
00:40:49.159 --> 00:40:53.400
to know themselves better and to find
that gift, that they can then use

541
00:40:53.480 --> 00:41:00.320
that gift to bring their part to
the table. You know, I'll just

542
00:41:00.320 --> 00:41:02.880
give you an example of something that
might seem like a small gift, but

543
00:41:02.880 --> 00:41:09.360
it's so important. I was working
with a young woman who she was unhappy.

544
00:41:09.440 --> 00:41:14.920
She was a receptionist. Her boyfriend
was teasing her because she had a

545
00:41:14.920 --> 00:41:19.320
lot of stuffed animals, and she
liked to watch Beauty and the Beast over

546
00:41:19.360 --> 00:41:22.079
and over again, and she just
you know, didn't like speaking up in

547
00:41:22.079 --> 00:41:25.360
class. She didn't like who she
was. And one day, she you

548
00:41:25.400 --> 00:41:29.880
know, asked me if I thought
there was something wrong with her, because

549
00:41:29.920 --> 00:41:31.679
you know, she was in her
twenties. And I looked at her,

550
00:41:31.719 --> 00:41:37.119
and she had so much integrity.
I just thought, no, there's I

551
00:41:37.119 --> 00:41:38.679
don't think there's anything wrong with you. And I said why, and she

552
00:41:38.679 --> 00:41:42.920
said, well, my boyfriend thinks, I, you know, I shouldn't

553
00:41:42.920 --> 00:41:45.360
be doing all this. He made
me give all my stuffed animals away,

554
00:41:45.440 --> 00:41:49.000
and I said, you know,
and you could see everybody in the room

555
00:41:49.079 --> 00:41:53.400
was like, that's not cool.
And so anyway, she left her boyfriend

556
00:41:54.119 --> 00:41:59.719
and as and she started to find
her own voice. And what we started

557
00:41:59.719 --> 00:42:05.360
to discover together was that she could
see the world through the eyes of a

558
00:42:05.480 --> 00:42:08.960
child. That's what she was really
good at. And her true calling was

559
00:42:09.000 --> 00:42:14.800
to be a kindergarten teacher. And
what I and she is a fabulous one.

560
00:42:14.840 --> 00:42:19.320
She's been doing it for years.
And you want a kindergarten teacher like

561
00:42:19.400 --> 00:42:22.639
that, someone who's really right,
somebody who's really into it, who is

562
00:42:22.719 --> 00:42:28.360
answering her true calling because she is
a role model just by her essence,

563
00:42:28.360 --> 00:42:30.320
her energy, you know, the
way she carries herself and the way she

564
00:42:30.360 --> 00:42:36.199
talks. She's a role model to
those little kids in her class to be

565
00:42:36.320 --> 00:42:38.679
who they really are. So there's
no gift that's too small. And I

566
00:42:38.719 --> 00:42:46.599
honestly believe that each of us has
a responsibility to bring our own piece of

567
00:42:46.639 --> 00:42:52.119
the puzzle together and solve the world
problems together. And can you imagine what

568
00:42:52.239 --> 00:42:58.920
the world would be like if each
individual was able to find that gift and

569
00:42:59.599 --> 00:43:02.639
express in their lives, which,
as you say, once you found that

570
00:43:02.679 --> 00:43:07.840
gift or once you've found that passion, it elevates your emotions, it elevates

571
00:43:08.559 --> 00:43:13.079
your whole life experience. Can you
imagine? And and you know, I'd

572
00:43:13.119 --> 00:43:16.360
like to talk about the one you
know, we keep hearing people talk about,

573
00:43:16.480 --> 00:43:20.159
you know, and I did this
initially as I started my podcast.

574
00:43:20.159 --> 00:43:22.400
So am I going to reach millions
of people? Am I going to do

575
00:43:22.440 --> 00:43:24.760
this and that? And finally it
hit me, you know, it doesn't

576
00:43:24.800 --> 00:43:30.519
matter. What matters is can I
reach one and will make the difference in

577
00:43:30.559 --> 00:43:36.159
the life of one individual? And
periodically, when I get, you know,

578
00:43:36.239 --> 00:43:38.719
a message from someone saying, hey, I just love it made such

579
00:43:38.760 --> 00:43:43.679
a difference to hear this podcast in
my life, It's like, Okay,

580
00:43:44.679 --> 00:43:49.920
that's that's why I'm doing this.
And can you imagine if each person as

581
00:43:49.960 --> 00:43:53.719
a one were to discover their gifts
and to start to follow those and have

582
00:43:53.800 --> 00:44:00.000
that emotional elevation that would occur,
what it would do to the world.

583
00:44:00.079 --> 00:44:02.800
World. I think we need to
do this. I think, I mean

584
00:44:02.840 --> 00:44:06.840
and I you know what's interesting about
the younger generations, because I work with

585
00:44:06.880 --> 00:44:12.400
them a lot, is they value
authenticity, they value diversity, they value

586
00:44:12.480 --> 00:44:15.639
being of service. It's really really
important to them. And so I feel

587
00:44:15.639 --> 00:44:21.559
like they're halfway there already. Their
their their their values are already right online,

588
00:44:21.880 --> 00:44:23.199
you know what I mean. But
it's just a matter of them digging

589
00:44:23.280 --> 00:44:28.280
in and finding out what their path
is. But I think there's hope that

590
00:44:28.360 --> 00:44:35.360
this may happen well. And as
we closes the show today, what would

591
00:44:35.400 --> 00:44:38.360
be take about a minute, what
would be the final message that you would

592
00:44:38.440 --> 00:44:44.000
like to share with the audience.
It's okay to feel like you're weird.

593
00:44:44.440 --> 00:44:47.280
It's okay to feel like you don't
belong. If you feel like you don't

594
00:44:47.320 --> 00:44:52.760
belong to a certain group, that
you're hanging out with, a certain tribe

595
00:44:52.760 --> 00:44:58.840
that you may be in, it's
probably an indicator that your calling is pulling

596
00:44:58.840 --> 00:45:00.800
you in a new direction, and
it's not a bad thing. Don't freak

597
00:45:00.840 --> 00:45:05.280
out about it, don't worry about
it. Open your heart up, find

598
00:45:05.280 --> 00:45:10.440
out where you're being called, and
feel like I give you permission. I'm

599
00:45:10.440 --> 00:45:16.639
Michelle Chappel, give you permission to
follow that the feeling of not belonging is

600
00:45:16.719 --> 00:45:22.599
often the very first step in finding
your true calling. I love that,

601
00:45:22.800 --> 00:45:25.760
Michelle. Thank you so much for
being on the show. I really appreciate

602
00:45:25.800 --> 00:45:30.639
it. Well, thank you for
having me. Hey, what tremendous insights

603
00:45:30.679 --> 00:45:34.480
you've shared. And so how do
folks find you, you know, if

604
00:45:34.519 --> 00:45:37.280
they if they are finding that,
you know, I need some help.

605
00:45:37.559 --> 00:45:42.639
How can they find you? I
have a website called be your Own Superhero,

606
00:45:43.039 --> 00:45:46.400
which is all about finding your unique
superpowers. So be your Own Superhero

607
00:45:46.519 --> 00:45:52.000
dot com. I also have a
podcast you're called Your True Calling Find your

608
00:45:52.079 --> 00:45:58.119
Hidden Superpowers. So those are two
good ways to find me. And your

609
00:45:58.159 --> 00:46:02.320
podcast is on most of the podcasts. Yeah, it's on Apple and Google

610
00:46:02.440 --> 00:46:08.840
and iHeartRadio and yeah, exactly.
Yeah, I really enjoyed. I enjoyed

611
00:46:08.880 --> 00:46:13.079
you. Thank you so much,
well, and thank you and folks,

612
00:46:13.119 --> 00:46:15.800
thanks for thanks for listening. And
I hope this has made a difference in

613
00:46:15.840 --> 00:46:20.960
your lives as you consider what is
your purpose, what are your gifts?

614
00:46:21.079 --> 00:46:24.719
And you know what, as Michelle
was saying, we encourage you to discover

615
00:46:24.800 --> 00:46:29.719
what those are because it's going to
make a difference in your life. Enjoy,

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enjoy the week or the rest of
the week, and hope that you'll

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join us again soon