The Software Named Sanjay: Remembering Who You Are Beneath the Program

0:01 I have spent years in conversation with people who are successful by every measure and still quietly restless, not broken, not lost, just aware somewhere underneath the noise that there is a version of their life that feels more honest, more grounded, more genuinely theirs. This podcast exists for those people, for the ones who are done performing and ready to go deeper. My name is Dr. Doug. Welcome to Inspire Vision. I'm glad you are here. Sanjay, welcome. Thanks, Dr. Doug. Thank you for having me. Hey, I'm pleased to have you. And just let the audience know, where are you coming from?

0:45 I'm in Dallas, Texas right now. Okay, cool. So what I'd love for you to do, Sanjay, is kind of share with the audience a little bit of your background, who you are. Okay. Well, I'm 56-year-old, divorced, father of three daughters. And I've lived a pretty ordinary life as an executive, founder of a company, entrepreneur. But in parallel, I have always had this desire to express myself and to write. And so recently, I was able to publish my first book, sort of fulfilling that part of me as well. And what's the name of the book? The book is called Actualization OS, A System of Inner Architecture.

1:28 Okay, cool, cool, cool. So I know that you have developed a whole new thought process of personal development, transformation, and so forth. And what I have found with the audience that we have is that everybody has a different way of working for themselves. And for instance, when I meditate, I used to listen to all different types of music, of different, you know, everything. And all of a sudden I found that a particular bowls, ringing bowls were the ones that really got me into that element of meditation.

2:11 And doing it by walking really helped me. But I found that everybody has a different way of doing it. And from what I'm saying, you have developed... a different way that you feel is more effective than other ways. Is that the case? You know, more effective really depends upon the reader and those who are using the system. What I will say is that the point you made is exactly where the system comes from, which is that all of us are different. The experience that I would have in reading spiritual books and then self-help books as well, right? In the beginning, when I was trying to meditate and get into different techniques and understand philosophies, I was confused because I would resonate, let's say, with somebody like Eckhart Tolle, right? Just a known author. And I would get some of the things he was saying, and then he'd lose me. And then on the self-help side, similarly, I'd read maybe, let's say, I'm older, so let's say Tony Robbins. And I'd say, okay, I get this, I get this. Then there was a chapter on visualization, and I have something called aphantasia, which means I can't imagine inside my head. I can't visualize, right?

3:30 And so, you know, several chapters in, all of a sudden, this book doesn't work for me. And what I found is that, of course, we're humans and authors are writing, assuming that the audience is similar to them or the few people that they've encountered. And that's not always the case. So what I did was I said, how can you have a system Uh, that anyone can use that checks in on where any individual is and says, okay, you're at this point. So let's begin from here. And so that's really the genesis of, of this entire project of the actualization OS system. Okay. So, you know, you talk about the identity. I love the word identity because I think so often. We have different identities. In fact, I've put together what I call a personal portrait. And one of the things it talks about is that we have, at least in this particular one that I've done, three different identities. We have that innate who we truly are. We have that social identity, which says this is who I need to be and should be. And I hate those words, but that's what we hear. And then there's also that identity where we've kind of put that all together. And this is who I'm experiencing right now. So when you talk about the identity immune system, what are you talking about?

4:53 So to your point about this identity that, you know, we believe ourselves to be right. Um, in my case, there was the software program running and that sort of the, um, the insight that I had was to look at myself as a piece of code that was in desperate need of debugging, right? So the software named Sanjay, I didn't name it. I didn't raise it. I didn't educate it. My culture, my family was all set for me, right? But what happened is this identity gets associated with our internal representation. And we create an image saying, hey, I'm the Sanjay thing without really examining who built that identity.

5:37 Is it real? Is it helpful? At a certain point, I knew it was talking to itself in my head, right? And so you ask yourself the question, why am I talking to myself? And so the identity immune system was my way of relating the fact that if changes were happening in my life, if good things were coming to me, if my internal image didn't believe that those were a part of the identity, it would reject them. And I found myself fighting away good things success, good relationships, simply because I had built such a core identity around struggling and suffering and overcoming difficult things. I had a good friend who told me, he said, you know, I focus on what it takes to make money. You're just looking for complicated things to figure out, right? Because that was my identity. I was a problem solver. So the identity immune system says that even if you are doing everything correct, to bring in what you have wished for. Unless it aligns with your self-image, you're going to reject it, you're going to self-sabotage, and you're going to create problems without even knowing why these problems are arising.

6:51 Well, and you know, one of the things that I've come to conclude is that when we get into this quantum field and all of that type of thing, that very often what we attract is, as you say, that that identity that we've developed that software. So sometimes it's really difficult to even attract those other things that would be so good for us. And yet you've experienced at least being able to attract something good. And, you know, I love how you talk about, you know, Eckhart Tolle. I've read some of his books also. And I find, as you said, there's some such incredible stuff, especially about the ego. And as you talk about how we can allow our ego to cause the suffering of anxiety that we experience, but also all of a sudden he goes off into a different world than like you. I cannot fathom what he's trying to talk about. And so, you know, I think it's so important and I love what you've done.

7:51 You've read all of this and all right, this one applies, but all right, this doesn't make sense. And oh, that one applies, but you know, that doesn't make sense. So I love what you've done there. So as we talk about anxiety, as we talk about what we're experiencing, and you mentioned suffering and, you know, being here in Thailand, obviously, with Buddhism, that's the whole point of what Buddha was trying to help people to do is get rid of the suffering. And, you know, understanding that is, I think, for some people difficult to understand what he's really talking about. But But the reality is, is when you talk about anxiety, what is naturally causing the anxiety that we're experiencing? And you talk about the three wishes paradox. So I'd love for you to kind of define what that is.

8:41 Yeah, so I closed the book in the afterward. A story came to me. You know, we always hear about the genie and the three wishes, right? But any of those stories that we have followed through on, regardless of what the wishes are, they're all booby trapped, right? You wish for, uh, amazing success. Then you don't know who really loves you, right? Are they after you for your success and your money? You wish for long life or eternal life. Everybody around you dies. So that's not a good wish either. And I found, um, in re-examining my life in 2015, um, the two structures that were foundational to my life, my 26 year relationship and marriage and the business I had founded both collapsed at the same time. Right?

9:31 So it was a very rude awakening. I looked at them and I said, arguably I wished for two things. I wished for love and I got it. I wished for building something and being successful and I got it and neither one of them satisfied. The reason is because Anything that you wish for, inherent in that wish, is that you will lose it, right? The Buddha also teaches that nothing is permanent. And so because of that, you know, we're all going to one day not be around anymore, right? So anything that you get, you may have all the fortune in the world and now you're diagnosed with the disease, right?

10:12 So the suffering that's inherent, so to me, the last wish, right? I saw myself... in a position, asking God, asking the genie, sometimes asking AI, right? Because that's the time. And I said, hey, you know, as a thought exercise, what can I do where I can get what I want, right? And not get booby trapped. And so what I realized was that the last wish was to be in a position to not meet a wish anymore, right? Whatever that meant, whether it meant being happy, whether it meant accepting whatever life was. And that began the journey in 2015, where on one hand, I had to learn how to live again because I had been with one person my whole life. So I had to learn how to be social, how to date.

11:04 I'd only ever worked. And I also had to re-examine what I was doing for a living, what I really wanted to do. And in that process, the meditation was a parallel lane. So I was going inside. while I was going outside. And somewhere in there, I saw the gaps as I would read different teachings, and I would get frustrated. When I first read The Power of Now by Eckhart, I hated it. Then I heard him read the book out on Audible, and all of a sudden it resonated with me, right? So different modes, different teachings, we are receptive or we're not, we're different places in life. And so that journey is what's really culminated here. And so to me, The paradox of the wishes is that they always come with anxiety, right? You see people who are billionaires. They cannot sit still. One would think that you now have made more than you could spend in lifetimes.

12:01 You could relax, right? As my kids say, you could chill out. There is no chill because there is this constant fear of having to continue to earn that validation, that acknowledgement. It's a never-ending cycle. Well, and, you know, again, you know, we're talking Buddha here because he was brought up. I don't happen to be Buddhist, but I've studied a lot. My wife is Buddhist. But, you know, he talks about desire. And I get the impression that that's what you're really talking about. When you talk about wishes, you're talking about desire. And Eckhart talks about the ego. But again, if you really look at the definition of what he's talking about, it's those desires, that ego. We want to be recognized. And therefore, this is our wish. This is our desire. We want a better car. We want a better house. We want this.

12:52 We want that. And I'm going to ask you to be a little bit transparent. And if you're not comfortable with that, that's okay. But as you look back at what happened with your business, what happened with your marriage, and believe me, I'm one that has experienced all of that. With my dental practice, it wasn't so much that It just went south. I developed a neurological issue that one day I could no longer practice. I was dropping instruments and so on and so forth. For you, it was different. But as you look at what happened there, what do you find as you did that introspective work, what did you find was ultimately the reason why your business went under, why the marriage went under?

13:45 It's a, that's a good question. And, uh, uh, it makes me sort of go to that space. I think fundamentally, um, I didn't know who I was or what I wanted. I was just going through the motions. I, I, um, having been born as an Indian in an Indian family, in a culture, I met an Indian woman at UCLA. And I felt that I had to replicate, you know, what was in the genes, what was in the culture, right? Build a family, have kids. As far as the business, I felt that that package of being married, of having kids, the society I was in required success, right? Required me to achieve things. And so that whole time, you know, when I was in college and I would say I was better aligned with who I actually was, It was completely impractical. I wanted to write poetry and be a professor of English literature. And so at a certain point, years later, I looked at where I was and I said, this is not it. This is not me. There's a piece of software that talks to itself in my head.

15:00 And I seem to be able to watch Sanjay arguing with Sanjay and sometimes arguing with his ex-wife who not even here. Right. And, uh, you know, I realized something was off. It was helpful to go that one level back, as you're aware, when you meditate, you sort of are falling back a little bit. And the things that you see, they're remarkable, right? It's surprising that I had spent all my life turning the lens outward, right? I took all of the abilities I had and I said, let me try and shape the world. Let me try and make it match what I think I'm supposed to be, right?

15:42 What this software named Sanjay is supposed to achieve and do. Never for one second did I think maybe you could take those powers of reasoning, everything you're doing in the world, and just look at yourself, care for yourself. And so I would say that's the insight. Well, and I love that insight. And what comes to my mind is, you know, as you say, with your And I assume it's Hindu, being Indian is the Hindu background. Yes, yes, I was the background. By the way, I love that. I have my Hindu, I have my Buddha, I have my Christ, I have all of those things because I believe that from each of those, there's such value if you get to the original teachings rather than what has been created over time in history.

16:28 I fully agree, yeah. But, you know, one of the things you talked about is that when you were in college... You wanted to, you know, you wanted to write. You wanted to do those type of things. And yet, based on expectation, societally, background-wise, family-wise, this is the direction you needed to go. You know, I experienced something somewhat similar. My dad, there's five boys and one girl in the family. But for the boys, you know, his whole comment was, you will become professionals. And guess what? Except for one, we all did. And when I was in college, I was going to go into medicine. And then ultimately, I served a two-year mission for my church. And observing the doctors versus the dentists, their families, their happiness, and so forth, I came back and said, you know what? Those doctors may be making a heck of a lot of money, but they have no time for family. And so I switched to dentistry.

17:33 And then I was taking some courses and I took a psychology course and a business behavioral course. And I thought, wow, I love that too. And so I actually got to the point where I said, all right, I'm going to make this decision. I was at the point where I'd run out of money and I was supporting myself in the school. And so I was like, all right, end of three years, I'm going to apply to a dental school. If I get accepted, I'm going into dentistry. If I don't, I may change my major. Well, I got accepted into dentistry after three years. So I never got a graduate degree or an undergraduate degree. And yet down the road, when ultimately for me, it was, as I mentioned, it was a physical situation where I developed neurological problems and I could no longer practice. And so then I went back into business school and not an MBA, but went back and got certified to do some coaching and consulting and so forth. And I found that that was okay, but not really feeling great. And then ultimately, I started my podcast and was focusing on business. And then, you know what? My dad passed away. And as I went to his memorial service at Northwestern University, and his students kept talking about Yeah, he was a great voice teacher, and he was nationally known. But more importantly, what he

19:05 had taught them, the honesty, the integrity, the learning to love, to be successful, to win. And I thought to myself, what am I doing? Am I leaving a legacy, even a small legacy, versus what I've been told I need to do? And so I switched my podcast to the Inspire Vision Making a Difference podcast. And I found that ultimately I started a whole new direction. And then, as you say, through meditation really changed the direction. And I don't look at any of it as a mistake. I think I needed to be in that dentistry. I think that was important. Ultimately, it was very difficult to accept the fact that I lost everything. I could not practice anymore, and that was it. But now I find where I'm at now is I find such peace and happiness. And as I look back, I realize, you know what? And again, you know, I smile about this because Buddha talks about, you And I don't believe in reincarnation, but guess what?

20:10 I do believe in multiple lives because so far I've lived at least three in this lifetime. And I think that's so important based on what you've been sharing too. It's so important for people to understand that, yes, you can make a change. If you can start to understand that at this point in time in your life, what you are doing doesn't fit who you really are. I'd love for you to talk a little bit more about that with your experience and how people can, instead of being fearful of making a change, can actually realize that by making, even if it's a subtle change, doesn't always have to be changing professions, but even a subtle change can change their lives and help them to truly become that identity of who they are versus the computer identity that's been developed.

21:08 So, you know, another, um, very insightful angle. Um, I would say this, I think the realization that arises in most of us, right. Um, is that the identity as we've been carrying it forward is not really who we are, that there are two different things. It's a mask that we wear, right. We may buy into the mask. We may believe it to be real. But it doesn't stand up to any real scrutiny. The thing is we just never look at it. It's like looking at your own eyes.

21:49 You look outward from your eyes. You cannot look inward at them. And so in that space of meditation, of quietness, the entire premise of the book is that stillness is the foundation. And what I really mean by that is how can you see that soft work? Unless you can calm down, stop moving, stop going to the next thing. Right. Um, you know, mindfulness, which is a Buddhist practice. I, I, I, when I started practicing it, I realized that as I'm putting the fork into the stake, it's already in my mouth. It's already, I'm ready to pick up my drink or my, my, you know, a table napkin to dab my mouth. Right.

22:34 Why am I not just at the fork in the stake at that point? Right. So this constant motion, this constant movement takes you away from that space where you can see yourself and where you can make change. Right. And what comes to mind, because it's interesting, I know that, you know, in the description of, um, your podcast and your bio, you refer to the, uh, parable of the treasure in the field. Yes. And just as you said, you were looking around the space that you're in, and you said Hindu and Buddhist and Christian. I was born and raised in Hong Kong, right? So I was born in China, but it was a British colony at that time.

23:17 And I went to an Anglican school. So for all intents and purposes, I didn't know I wasn't Christian, right? We had prayer assemblies. We had a hymnal. I had a class called Scripture Union, right? And so I would say that I was, my first love was probably Jesus and his words and his teachings. A lot of the other stuff didn't make any sense to me, right? But I was like, you know, I don't know what this guy is saying, but it does something to me, right? And so I had a conversation recently where the person I was speaking to brought up another parable, which is the parable of the sower, the sower of the field, right?

23:57 And if you cast your seeds on thorny ground, rocky ground, the birds will come and eat it. So you need that prepared ground. And I think to make change, to be able to see that you don't have to do what you feel that you're trapped in or you're stuck in, you have to prepare that ground, right? And Jesus says, for he who has, more will be given, right? You'll be given abundance. And for the person who doesn't have, it'll be taken away, right? And a lot of these parables to me because they are mysteries and we can interpret them in our own way. They seem to be speaking to this prepared ground, to the space of receptivity, maybe surrender of openness. And I think in order to get to that, I had to not be Sanjay. I had to not fully align with this construct. I had to say, well, what's there? You know, when I first wake up in the morning, what's there? When I sit still, what's there? Those thoughts that Sanjay is having, Why? They're really strange thoughts. If you had, I think I saw in the YouTube where Eckhart said, if the voice inside your head was someone sitting next to you on a sofa, you would think that this was the worst person on earth, that this is a crazy person, yet we just accept that to be ourselves, right? So finding that space, finding some stillness, I think, for me at least, was the most profound foundation for all of the good things that

25:28 have happened since then. And I love that concept. As I walk here, I'm in a rural area somewhat. And as I'm walking around on the street, there are rice fields all over. And occasionally there's just a single tree sitting in that rice field. And I look at that and I think, solitude, quietness. What is it for us to be able to step back and get rid of all this stuff that's going on in our lives and just be quiet for a moment and literally think about who are we really. And, you know, as you bring up what Christ taught, and I love all of that. In fact, what I did is I went back, because I'm so curious as I've been reading and so forth, I went into Buddhism, Hinduism, Christianity, and I said, all right, I want to understand what are all of the similarities, not of what's being taught right now, but go back to the original before politicians and philosophers change it their way. And what I found is there's such a similarity in those initial historical ancient teachings of becoming. You know, when Buddha says, you know, there is no self, I think what he's really talking about is just what you've said. There is no who

27:02 I think I am because of the software that I've been using, but there is an innate soul individual that exists. And I think that's who you're talking about is getting back to that point. So as you talk about your book, What are some of the things, you know, we talk about mindfulness, talk about meditation, talk about, you know, that quiet time. What I find, though, is for many people, the biggest challenge they have is to even get to the point where they can have the understanding that, you know what, I'm experiencing all this anxiety, this suffering, all of this, and I don't know why. How do they get to the point where they can become mindful enough to say, you know what, I guess I really need to start being curious and figure out what's this message that I keep telling myself?

28:04 So my answer to that, and I examined for the book three traditions because they weren't dogmatic. They were focused on the mind and the human condition. One was stoicism, the other was the teachings of Buddha, and the third one was Patanjali's Yoga Sutras. So yoga has turned into an exercise that sells a lot of tight clothes now. But the truth is, the word yoga, the implications of the etymology of that word involved a yoke. So it's a system where you're yoking yourself to a system in order to achieve this realization, right? Whether it's freedom from suffering, knowing who you really are, seeing reality as it is.

28:57 And so Patanjali was a scholar back in ancient times, and he identified the eight limbs of yoga, right? And sure, exercise is one of them. The asanas, basically sitting still, holding your spine up. So if we imagine a time where you had attention deficit, seekers that just couldn't focus, right? They were taught to hold poses, to sit still. The beginning of those eight limbs are yama and niyama, which are basically looking at your ethics, looking at your morality, addressing issues of character, right? You cannot fast forward to the latest and greatest technique without doing the prep work.

29:45 And we all see it. We may have a big jump in life, but then something that's buried deep inside comes and gets. You, right? And so in these systems that I mapped in looking at the book, I found that you can take any one of these lenses, whether you want to use the Indian tradition of breathwork attention, what we call meditation is exercises, right? Exercises. And then at a certain point, you can't really explain what you're doing anymore in terms of meditation, because it becomes that walk alongside the rice paddies, looking at the solitary tree, right? And feeling the warm, humid air. And you are just that, right? There's no division between you and that. And you know that whatever, when you were earlier in the path, whatever you were trying for, for meditation, that that really wasn't it. That was training for this.

30:48 And so in my case, my experience, um, I, As my company was failing, I had the good fortune and misfortune of having very wealthy family. And so one of them ended up helping to finance my business and I ended up in debt as a result. Right. And he was concerned for me. So he sent his priest all the way from India to Los Angeles to debug me. Right. And he said, look, he told the priest I'll send you and your wife. They wanted to come to the States anyways. He goes, I'll send you guys, but you've got to go see my family first because he's a little bit, you know, in torment. And so after, you know, taking his compass, looking at my office, looking at the house, checking my horoscope, he basically prescribed for me to chant, right?

31:41 He gave me a necklace of 108 beads, which is the exact same count, whether it's a Buddhist mala or a Hindu mala, right? And he basically gave me a mantra in Sanskrit that I did not understand a word of and said, do this, right? Do 108 recitations. And I, at that point was in a very low place, having dark intrusive thoughts. So just something to take my mind off what was coming to me was very helpful. But in the beginning, I couldn't do three repetitions. without my mind just running away, right? But I pushed myself and I felt, you know, I felt this realization that how could this Sanjay even learn the multiplication table because he does not have any control over his mind. But when he was a student, when he was younger, right, he was able to do things that this one has, I gave away the driver's key, the key to the car to a piece of software that I thought was me And it wasn't functional anymore. So in the book that I teach that if you start with something that trains your course attention, right? Some people stare at a candle flame, counting breath, counting it is course attention. Following the breath without voice, without label is subtle attention. So we go

33:14 through the progression, right? And that lens of attention, becomes thinner and thinner, subtler and subtler. Our breath, which in the beginning when we watch it, it just feels like this chaotic thing, it also becomes smoother, silkier, right? Effortless. And so that progression from coarse to subtle, attention, is the process that I teach in the book. And it's by no means unique, right? This is the teaching of the masters. The whole book is really almost my love letter or dedication to everything that came before. I just tried to assemble it in a way that you can work with AI and use it on yourself, and you can start wherever you are. So I would say that that's really kind of the journey that I went through, was training the mind to listen, to pay attention. In that same parable, about the sower, right? There's the saying, right?

34:22 For them that have ears, you know, to listen, right? Those who have eyes to see. And I wasn't hearing what was being said. I wasn't seeing what was in front of me. I was just focused on a piece of software that had gone awry. Well, and you know, as you've been talking, a couple of things have really triggered in me. And One of them, I was listening to a podcast. I have a friend that has a podcast, and they have many, but one of them is Christian and very, very strong in that direction. And they talk about how their previous life was into yoga and into astrology and all of these things. And, oh, that is now so bad. We realize we've moved in this direction. And I've thought about that, and I thought, you know what's interesting about that is that, yes, we can take any of these things, and it's like that balance sheet, you know, that balance where if we put more weight on one side, the other side goes up.

35:31 If we put it the other side, it goes down. If we kind of balance it all out, and What I have seen, which is really interesting, is that there's kind of been a process and a movement of moving away from some of those deep ancient beliefs and understanding. You know, as you say, you were literally brought up thinking you were a Christian. Now you're talking about Hinduism and, you know, as being one of the main basis is for you as well as Buddhism. And I look at that and I look at, all of the basic truths of all of those different things, and realize that, you know what, so often we move away from that deep spiritual belief and understanding. You keep quoting stuff from the New Testament, so there's still that Christian influence on you.

36:28 And I am definitely a follower of Christ, no question about that. And yet, I love Buddhism. I love the Hinduism. I love the insights that are there. And I think so often people feel like they have to choose one or the other and they feel like, oh wow, if I have someone come into my home that happens to be Christian and they look around and see my Buddha there and my Shiva there as well as my Christ, they go, wow, what's wrong with this guy? He's not a believer. And yet, how do you help people to understand that they can maintain those deep religious true beliefs in a God, in a Father, in Heaven, in whatever that happens to be for them, and still be able to incorporate some of these ancient traditions in their lives that you have put into your book in a more modern sense that helps them to really achieve that sense of stillness a sense of peace that sense of becoming as was said in the old testament i am that i am.

37:42 I would say that this is the age-old question right yeah um you know because the younger me wouldn't have listened Right. I would have been the gift horse. Right. That just was I couldn't get out of my own way. But what I would say is this is if you actually do what you said you did, Dr. Doug, which is go to the source. Read the text, read the words, ignore what your pastor is saying. Right. With all due respect, forget what the church is telling you, because I've always been a very logical person. And I would get confused because, you know, I'm like, okay, where is hell and Satan in the Bible? I'm like, huh? This stuff is not really there the way I'm being taught. And as better and better translations came up, I'd say, well, what was the meaning of the word? Why did somebody think they had to change what was actually said, right? Were the prophets not as wise as we take them to be that we have to write commentary to change what they were saying? And so I did that very much with the culture that I grew up with, right, in Hinduism.

38:58 And I was like, look, the stuff my grandma told me is just made up. What's in the actual source teachings is profound. And so, you know, today, for some reason, the language that I have been speaking is from the New Testament, right? It just comes to me. So I don't think it's hard. If I were to tell a Christian, right, If what I'm saying to you feels alien because I use the word meditation, if you look at the history of Christianity, and the saints and the mystics, we call them contemplatives, right? What they did was contemplation, which was to be in silent grace with God, right? The Bible says in one of the Psalms, be still and know that I am God. I think that's pretty clear, right?

39:47 Jesus says to go in, to find him within. So I think the clues are there and whatever it takes for somebody, right? In my view, I try not to define as the young people say, I don't think my belief is that of a sky daddy, right? I find that very humorous, but also telling, right? That's not my image of it. But I do feel that whatever is there is not separate for me. So if I even have to say God and me, I've created a rift between bits of incalculable leagues between us, right? And so how do you remove that rift? You just be quiet, right?

40:29 You reside with what is there. And I think that is the core message, because while there is a big cycle, I would say that the system in the book honestly professes to teach somebody how to manifest. Make all your dreams come true. It's there. It's also in the New Testament. But There's a mini cycle which only has three components. One is defined stillness. That's your platform. The second is to regulate your somatic state. How can you ignore how you're feeling and what's tight in you and what the resistance and the motions are within you? And the third is to attend. But that faculty of being able to attend just disappears as we get older and we get caught up, as the Buddhists say in samsara. In this world of material things and concepts and Instagram and TikTok, it's difficult. We are a long ways away from when a Mayan child in South America was looking out at the stars with his grandfather and he was told, hey, my grandfather told me and you need to tell your grandkid that in 62 years or when this planet goes there, those stars are going to shift to the right. We can't even conceive of this kind of a reach or depth.

41:46 of memory, of attention, of focus. And so everything in the book is designed to bring you back to those three basic things. And I think that if we all did that, if we just checked in with how we're actually feeling, tried to be quiet, and then paid attention to what's really in front of us and not what the software is saying, I think we would find grace. I think grace, no matter what religion or culture you're in, is that simple. And I'd I haven't found anyone who could argue with those three things because I don't really need to say, hey, Buddha said this, right? Or this comes from an Indian sage. I think it's somewhat common sense. And the truth is all of these teachings, right? They're profoundly comprised of common sense. If you get past what editorials have been put on them, right? What Paul's interpretation was, right?

42:38 So- Well, and I think it's so important for people to understand, it doesn't matter what faith you've been brought up in. It's time to go back to the, as you say, I've done the same thing with the Hebrew. Go back and understand what was the word originally meant to mean. And it changes the whole dimension. And for people to understand that, you know what, get away from societal imprints and start to go back to original faith. what was really originally said. And if they can do that, they're going to find that they can start to develop a whole new, and I call it a quiet return, to who they truly are. And I love what you've said about, remind me again those three things that you just mentioned that are so important.

43:32 To find stillness, make that your platform. Yes. To regulate your nervous system. right? To find peace and calm in the body, right? Once you're able to get a little bit in the mind and then attend, right? To just put your attention on what is in front of you, not what's going on in your mind, right? Through the senses. What does, what are you touching right now? Right now, my feet are on a soft carpet. I'm barefoot. My butt is on a chair. We usually just disregard that whole process of what's actually happening because we're watching a movie inside our heads that's actually completely not real.

44:14 Well, and yeah, and you know, one of the things you said that I think is important too for me to understand is, you know, as I started doing my walking meditation, you know, a few years ago, my focus was, all right, I got to do this, I got to do that, I got to do that. And ultimately, just to be quiet and ultimately become, but I think for some people what happens is that becomes such a focus that they lose themselves in that arena and they never get back to that quiet return to who they truly are. And so as we close, how would you help people to understand that the practice of what they're doing isn't to focus, focus, focus, focus on the practice of becoming, but just to be quietly focused calm, silent, and as you say, mindful, and return back and become who they truly are?

45:18 I would offer sort of almost a paradoxical complement of things, right? One is while stillness is very important, the core philosophies of the book are alignment over intensity. In the West, in The whole world focuses on Western achievement right now, so there's no East and West in that sense. We are pushing. We're putting more energy, more force. We're not focused on removing friction, right? So this notion of alignment over intensity, of clarity over force, and of receiving over reaching and grasping, right? Be ready for what there actually is in front of you because many of the times the best things that have happened to me have been in spite of Sanjay, not because of him. And almost every single negative thing that's happened has been thanks to yours truly, right? Sanjay did those, right? And so being aware of that and the paradox is, well, yes, I'm trying to teach something simple. The tools that I have created, if you go to causalwisdom.com, you can speak to an AI coach that's trained on the book for free. There's a prompt you can copy and paste, put it in your own AI and have it coach you on the system.

46:37 You don't even need to buy the book. The book is the manual for the software. The software was created first and given out for free. And so AI is able to grasp a lot more than I can. And it tends to be very good at looking at my blind spots, right? So I offer this to people, use the best of modern technology and ancient technology understand that you're a piece of software that needs to be debugged. And if you do that, I think grace will follow. I love it. So again, remind the folks your website and how they find that. I think the easiest way, since my name will be on this podcast, is just to go to myname.com, SanjaySubnani.com, and you will find the book's website, all of the tools, everything from that point onwards. Wonderful.

47:26 Sanjay, thank you so much. This This has been an incredible conversation. I really appreciate what you're doing. You know, the fact that you've put all of this together and your life experiences have allowed you to now share that with others to help them to have a better life. So kudos to you. Thank you for your time and your kindness, Dr. Doug. Thank you, folks. Thanks for listening. Hope you'll enjoy this one as well as future ones. This is Dr. Doug saying namaste. Namaste. Every conversation on this podcast eventually comes back to that same question, not how do I get more, but is this actually who I am? If something you heard today moved you just a little closer to an honest answer, that is enough. I'm Dr. Doug. This is Inspire Vision.

48:20 Until next time.