Oct. 13, 2026

The Hollow Form: What Nobody Sees From the Outside

Show Notes
Transcript

After a stroke, Chip Scholz's wife bought him a lathe, and it opened something he did not know was there. Chip talks about hollow forms, the vessels with a hidden inside that nobody ever sees, and why a forty two year marriage is shaped the same way. They also walk through his five C framework, context, clarity, conditioning, choice and character, and sit honestly with grief, abandonment and the quiet work of being true to yourself. Https://Scholzandassociates.com

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I have spent years in conversation with people who are

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successful by every measure and still quietly restless, not broken,

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not lost, just aware somewhere underneath the noise that there

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is a version of their life that feels more honest,

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more grounded, more genuinely theirs. This podcast exists for those people,

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for the ones who are done performing and ready to

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go deeper. My name is Dr. Doug. Welcome to Inspire Vision.

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I am glad you are here. Chip, welcome back to

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the show.

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Dr. Doug, it is so great to be here. I

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can't believe you've asked me back. I know. We had

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such a good conversation the first time.

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It was such a great conversation, and we didn't even

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get to half of the stuff that I felt like

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would be such value for the audience to hear about,

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you know, from the standpoint of your wisdom and your experience. So,

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Real briefly, give the audience again, for those that may

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not have heard the first one, a little bit about yourself.

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Author, speaker, craftsman, and I'm just, that's about it. I'm

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doing a lot of writing. I'm in the middle of,

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in fact, I just finished a chapter on the new

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book that's coming out next year. But I'm just, I'm

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having a ball. Executive coach and a lot of other things.

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Well, and as you talk about executive coach, is that

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personal development challenges or is it more of a business related?

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Yes, I'm an executive coach, so I'm not a life coach.

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Every time I hear life coach, I kind of get

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the shivers because it drives me a little bit nuts.

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But no, I deal with business issues, personnel, strategy, that

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kind of stuff. So yes. I laugh at that.

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You know, I actually, you know, when I moved to

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Utah years ago and started working on working with people

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and so forth based on behavioral analyses and so forth,

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everybody in the networking groups were life coaches. And it's

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like if they lost a job, they became a life coach.

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And I thought to myself, oh, my goodness. So I

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appreciate what you're talking about there.

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You will never find me going on a date with anybody.

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Have you heard that about life coaches? They tend to

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go on dates with people. I think there's been about

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at least 25 or 30 TV shows that have a

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life coach in them and it's somebody that's lost a

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job or somebody that can't find meaningful employment anywhere else

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and they call themselves life coaches. So we've just pissed

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off all the life coaches that are listening to us.

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We have and Our apologies, but hey, that's the reality

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of it. And there we go. So your next book,

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what's the name of the next book that's coming out?

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It's called Handoffs. And it's a fictional story. It's first

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time I've written fiction, first time I've had to write dialogue,

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which was a real trip. But it is about a

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family logistics business, because I know a lot about family

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logistics businesses. And I'm The 82-year-old guy who runs it

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is not willing to let go. The 54-year-old son really

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wants to take over, and the old man won't let him.

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It is so much like just about all of the

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businesses that I deal with. In fact, I sent it

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to a bunch of people to get endorsements for the book,

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and just about everybody came back with, did you write

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that about my family? You know, so I love it. Yeah,

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I know it was a ringing a little bit too

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close to the truth. But I use the five C's

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framework in that to to get the family out of

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the crisis they're in.

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OK, and let's let's get into that. You know, there's

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a couple of things that since our first chat I've seen,

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you know, we became friends on Facebook. I see that you,

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you know, have an incredible talent and. Here's what's interesting

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to me. I think about it all of the time.

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So often things have been taught in parables. You know,

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Christ taught in parables. And so often I don't think

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we realize that there are so many things in our

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lives that occur or that we do that if we

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sit back and really develop that sense of curiosity about it,

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that we can realize that there's a life parable in that.

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And I appreciate the fact that, you know, you have

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talked a little bit about that. But tell the audience

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a little bit about why you're a craftsman. What is

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it that you do? And then let's talk a little

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bit about the parable that comes from that or the parables.

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That's a great question. You know, one of the things

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that I don't consider myself a craftsman or did not

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consider myself a craftsman. for a long time. I think

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we talked a little bit about the stroke the first

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time we talked. Coming out of the stroke, my wife

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bought me a lathe and it transformed everything. It opened

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up all kinds of neural pathways that I didn't know existed.

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It might have been the body movements or it might

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have been getting out of the way of a 30-pound

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chunk of spinning wood. It taught me so much, and

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it's taught me so much about craft. It's taught me

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so much about life. Because wood is an organic object,

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and it never stops moving, just like relationships never stop moving.

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We can be great friends one day, and then something happens,

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and we're not, or something happens, and we're even greater friends.

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So the wood never stops moving. The people never stop moving.

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That's one thing we know about finished pieces. In fact,

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I had a platter that I gave to a friend

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of mine in Florida. And going from the less humidity

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in North Carolina to Florida, which has a lot of humidity,

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all of a sudden the thing started warping. And I

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never could have, yeah, I never could have seen that coming. But, uh, um,

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you know, he called, he said, is the, is the

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platter supposed to be round? And I said, no, it's not,

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but thank you for letting me know. And I'll go

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ahead and send you another one if you, if you

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would like, because you know, it, it doesn't stop moving. Um,

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the other thing is, uh, um, craftsmanship. So there was a, uh,

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a chapter in, um, Every Dog Has Its Day that

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came out in March that talks about hollow forms. And

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I don't know if you've ever heard of a hollow form,

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but a hollow form is like a vase or could be,

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I think there's one of them, that thing that's sitting

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behind me on the shelf back there is a hollow form.

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And in a hollow form, it has usually a small

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hole in the top and then is hollowed out on

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the inside. And it's done with a tool. And you

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can't see what you're doing. You know, you can feel.

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You can feel by the way the tool bites. Or

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you can feel, you know, you turn off the lathe

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and you feel inside. But you can't feel it otherwise.

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And for the most part, it's hidden. So, you know,

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nobody's really going to see it. Or nobody's really going

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to feel it. I mean, it's just, you know, it's

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kind of like the inside of an iPhone. You know?

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Nobody's ever going to be in the inside of an iPhone,

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but Steve Jobs wanted to make it beautiful. And the

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story in Every Dog Has His Day is about my wife.

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I've been married almost 42 years. We've had our ups

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and downs, as every married couple does. And our marriage

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is a lot like... a hollow form, you know, because

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nobody sees the work that it takes. Nobody sees what

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it's like to be inside it. Everybody sees the public

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persona or the, you know, the one going out with

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friends or that kind of stuff. And so, you know,

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it's just being a craftsman means you care about what

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it looks like on the inside.

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Well, and as you talk about that, I think so often,

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We really don't know what's going on within a person's soul,

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within their heart, what's going on in their mind. And

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we see certain behavior, and we can either choose to

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react to that behavior or, as you say, just start

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to feel it. And the way that we do that, obviously,

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is in a conversation, in a communication, what's going on,

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tell me a little bit about what's happening. And as

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we seek to be transparent with ourselves and seek to

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have those that are important to us become transparent, I

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think that conversation all of a sudden comes out to, well,

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I'm starting to feel this, or this is what's happening

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to me, or here's the emotion that just came up

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because of this event, or maybe because of something you said.

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And and i love i love the concept the parable

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of that that sometimes we can't see it but we

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can feel it and if we get in and dive

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in a little bit more we start to get a

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sense of what's really going on so I think that

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is such a cool parable that you just shared.

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Well, do you consider the podcast a craft of yours?

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You know, I do.

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It's interesting. One of the thoughts that just came to

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my mind as you were talking is here you are,

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an executive mentor, an executive coach, whatever you want to

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call it, and you've been doing this for years. And

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you have the stroke, you come out, and your wife

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obviously is inspired to give you a gift that somehow

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she knows is going to become so valuable for you.

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And I think about the fact that, and as I've

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done my own personality, my personal portrait on myself and others,

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And I recognized as I went through my own that,

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you know, being a dentist really fulfilled a very specific

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aspect of who I was. I'm very left-brained. I'm very both,

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you know, up and down. So I'm very much focused

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on a very specific thing. And my dentistry gave me

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the ability to really focus on small little details and

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do all of that. And so that was That was

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really great. And then, you know, as I shared with you,

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all of a sudden, I can't do that anymore. And

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for a few years, I'm trying to figure out this.

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I become, you know, I go back to business school

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and I'm working with small businesses and so forth and

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doing okay, but not feeling totally comfortable anymore. And all

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of a sudden the podcast opportunity comes up and I

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start doing that and I'm enjoying that, you know, and

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it really was business tips and trends. So I'm still

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doing the business stuff. And I may have shared this

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with you, but my dad passed away at 93, 92, 93.

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And we went back to Chicago. He had a memorial

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service done by the university students that had been his,

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that were then professors in music. And it was fascinating

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to me to walk away from that and realize that

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the message that we got from his students was so fascinating.

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Incredible singers, classical voice singers, some renowned, and their message

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was simple. Norman was an incredible voice teacher, and they

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told funny stories about how he'd come to their operas

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and he'd sit in the corner and kind of raise

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his hand and do little things to try to give

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them a little guidance as they're singing. But their main

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message was, yeah, he was a great voice teacher, but

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he gave us the strength and power to win, to succeed,

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to live, and to love. And that moment, I walked

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out of there and, you know, my family, my brothers,

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my little sister, they all had different views about my

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dad and so forth. But I walked out of there thinking,

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you know what? what a legacy for him to leave.

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And was it necessarily with his own kids? To some degree, yes.

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But more importantly, with all of those students of his,

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what a legacy. And I came back and I thought,

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you know what? I need to change the direction. What

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is it that I want to do? And that's when

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I changed my podcast concept from business tips and trends

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to inspire vision, making a difference in people's lives. And

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for you, you know, here you are coming out of

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your medical situation and your wife gives you a gift.

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But what you find out is that has become such

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a fulfilling role for you. And I look at that

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and as I went back and looked at my, you know,

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my personal portrait, I realized that there was a whole

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other section of motivators and values that I had not

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really necessarily been fulfilling in my dentistry, although I'd been

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doing some other things. But all of a sudden, this

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is what started to really feel real and so important

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in my life. And so now it is so fulfilling.

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And I look at that with you. Here you are

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doing all the things you've done that are successful and

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so forth. All of a sudden, you have this lathe

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and you have become a craftsman. in making these beautiful

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pieces that you make. And I think, you know, there's

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another example of something that had lied dormant for a while,

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but life circumstances came about to where all of a

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sudden you found something else that was extremely fulfilling and

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met some of those deep values and motivators that perhaps

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you hadn't experienced for a while. Yeah, yeah.

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You know, my mother-in-law had a lot to do with

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it as well. She was 12 days shy of 98

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when she passed. She passed in my easy chair in

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my wife's arms. It was pretty incredible. But she lived

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with us for the last few years. And she saw

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the transformation with a lathe. She was my worst critic

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and my best critic ever. Uh, because I, I would always,

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you know, I'd finish up a piece and I'd bring

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it upstairs and, and, uh, and walk in and hand

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it to her and she would look at it over and,

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you know, feel it. And, um, she was an incredible

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craftsperson herself. Um, she did, um, theorem painting, which is

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a kind of a painting with oils and stencils. Um, she, uh,

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she did, you know, knitting and crocheting and, um, she

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did all kinds of stuff. Um, But she always wanted

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me to be useful. She wanted me to have a hobby.

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Because up until the stroke, maybe my wife and I

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played golf on the weekends, but that was about it.

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I was traveling all the time and working and spending

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200 nights a year in a hotel. It wasn't much

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of a life. That changed after the stroke. We bought

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a cabin in the mountains, in the North Carolina mountains.

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We started changing the way we lived, and craft was

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a definite part of that.

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Well, it's interesting. I think so often we want this,

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we want that, we want it now. Mankind lacks such patience. And,

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you know, you look at our lives and realize that,

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you know, the journey of our lives, and I really

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believe this, you know, that as we're patient, as we live,

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as we love, as we move forward, that the journey

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changes a bit from time to time, and things come

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into our lives that perhaps we haven't had before, that

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just makes such a difference for us. And For you,

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the same thing. And to be able to be patient

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and observant and curious and just watch what's going on

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and what's happening, what am I creating, what's being created

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for me, and if things aren't what we want, what

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lesson am I learning from that, I think becomes so important.

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So let's talk a little bit about those five Cs

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because you talked a little bit about that, the five

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C framework. And let's talk about the application of that

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for people who are experiencing lives that they're not particularly enjoying.

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Yeah, yeah. The five C's are context, clarity, conditioning, choice,

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and character. So context is being brutally honest about where

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you are. And a lot of us don't want to

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admit where we are. We don't want to admit where

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our situation is. We don't want to be You know,

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we don't want to be serious about our careers or

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our married life or, you know, any of that stuff.

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But it's being brutally honest about that. And whether you're

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in business or not, being in business, it's also being

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brutally honest about what your current situation is, what your

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cash flow is, what your customers are doing. So context

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is really important, understanding where to start. Clarity is being

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certain in no uncertain terms what you want. And the

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problem is that most people have no idea what they want.

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They can tell you exactly what they don't want, but

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they can't tell you what they want.

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And oftentimes, yeah, let me interrupt there. Oftentimes, what they

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want is not what they want, but it's what they've

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been told they should want. Right.

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Right. Yeah, yeah, that's, that's true, too. You know, it's funny.

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And I'll ask you this question. But I ask a

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lot of people what their definition of success is. In

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other words, if you can write five or six different

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things that success means to you, what would it be

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so so I'll ask you, what are five or six

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things that success is to you?

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You asked me that last time. Oh, that's right.

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Okay. Okay.

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No, no.

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Has your answer changed?

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No, it hasn't changed. Success is my kids, my grandkids,

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being of value to them, being of value to my wife,

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being of value to the world on an individual basis.

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And again, I think that goes back to the many

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years that I've lived and realized that there's some things

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more important than what I had been doing.

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Well, clarity then becomes an outgrowth of that. It can

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be as simple as, what is your definition of success?

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And so it's really great to understand what your definition

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of success is. And as we talked last time, I'm sure,

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it is a lifelong pursuit. So everything else gets framed

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within that. Conditioning is getting your mind right, is changing

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your mind, is what do I have to think? What

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is going to get me where I want to go?

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in what I'm thinking. Because if you want to do

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something different, you've got to think differently. And how are

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you going to think differently? Choice is about behavior. It's

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about framing the behaviors in the conditioning that you've received.

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And my favorite story about that is six frogs are

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sitting on a log. One of them decides to jump off.

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How many frogs are left?

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Yeah, well, I would say there's still six because he

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only decided he didn't actually jump.

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Exactly, exactly. And I can't tell you how many people

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say five.

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I almost did.

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But, yeah, I mean, they only decide. If they don't

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take the behavior to jump off, you know, I can't

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tell what you're thinking. I cannot tell what you're thinking. Right.

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All you can do is tell me what you're thinking

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or all I can tell from you what you're thinking

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is how you behave. Yeah. And my wife used to

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say that all the time. Don't say I'm sorry. Change.

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It's like, OK, got it. Got it. And then and

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then character is about personal accountability. It's about it's about purpose.

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It's about living your purpose. It's, it's about, uh, and

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you know, I, I think the interesting part about purpose

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to me is that your purpose doesn't have to be

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some transcendent thing. It is probably right there in your

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definition of success. So being the best husband, father, et cetera, um,

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spouse you can be is probably your purpose. Um, My

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purpose is I live to develop people, which is what

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I do every day when I get up in the morning.

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And it's not just the coaching that I do. It's

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not just the writing I do. I teach woodturning. It's

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the conversations that I have with my wife and my kids.

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It's what I do. But it's also people. It's not others.

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I don't live to develop others. I literally develop people

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because I'm a people too. So that means I have

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to develop myself to be the best that I can

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possibly be so I can help others be the best

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they can possibly be. So it's kind of a symbiotic relationship.

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But character is about understanding what your purpose is and

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understanding that I'm accountable to myself. And don't we love

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working with people that are personally accountable?

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Yes, oh, absolutely. Yeah, yeah. And what comes to my

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mind is being true to yourself. And I think that

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as you talk about character, so often we find that

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we're not genuinely connected to that inner pure self of

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who we are. We're not really being true to who

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we are for various reasons. But what have you found?

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What have you found is one of the main causes

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why someone can find themselves not truly being true to themselves,

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not experiencing that character, as you mentioned?

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00:24:31.740 --> 00:24:37.079
The big thing is when you start to believe you're

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the most important person. I think there's a lot that

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goes into humility. And I think people are extremely attracted

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to humility. I mean, not everybody. I'm sure there are

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people that are attracted to power and the exercise of power,

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but I think that's pretty shallow. But when you start

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to believe your own press, bad things really start to happen. And,

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you know, I have firsthand knowledge of that. And it's

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an interesting story. I was a lobbyist in a former life.

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And so I spent 10 years lobbying on the West Coast.

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I was at a dinner one night and I thought

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it was all that. And I was at a dinner

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one night with my wife and a woman came up

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and started gushing about how wonderful it was, how I

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was such a wonderful person and all that kind of stuff.

384
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My wife had had just about a belly full, looked

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at her and said, you don't have to live with them. So,

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you know, I mean, talk, talk about talking about just

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putting me back in my place. Um, and, and that's

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probably why we're still married, uh, um, 35 years later,

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30 years later. Uh, but you know, I, I think,

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I think just believing, believing that you're all that is, is, uh, um,

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is one of those things that gets in the way.

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Yeah.

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Yeah.

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And, And also not even being curious enough to be

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willing to sit back and, you know, I use the

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The Hollow Form: What Nobody Sees From the Outside

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