WEBVTT
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This program is designed to provide general information with regards
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to the subject matters covered. This information is given with
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the understanding that neither the hosts, guests, sponsors, or station
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are engaged in rendering any specific and personal medical, financial,
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legal counseling, professional service, or any advice.
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You should seek the services.
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Of competent professionals before applying or trying any suggested ideas.
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At the end of the day, it's not about what
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you have or even what you've accomplished. It's about what
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you've done with those accomplishments. It's about who you've lifted up,
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who you've made better. It's about what you've given back.
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Denzel Washington, welcome to Inspire Vision. Our sole purpose is
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to elevate the lives of others and to inspire you
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to do the same.
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Albert welcome to the show.
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Thank you, Thank you for having me. Really happy to
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be here.
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Doctor Doug Well, I'm looking forward to looking forward to it.
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I'd love for you to share. Number One, you've written
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a book. Can you tell the outage what the book
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is and what the name of it is.
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Sure it's called Rise Above the Script.
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Confronting Self Doubt and Mastering Self sabotage for performing artists.
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It was published in twenty twenty four, and it was
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based on my doctoral thesis why Actors self Sabotage? And
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so just give you a backstory. I professionally I work
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with actors. I am a Talian agent in New York.
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So I represent actors professionally for film, TV, theater Broadway
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off Broadway, and I've been doing this for you know,
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over twenty years, since two thousand and four. But when
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I first started, I was noticing a lot of actors
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were self sabotage and which means that they were shooting
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of themselves in a foot, denying themselves an opportunity to
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get getting in their own way. And as a you know,
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I was also starting to go for my PhD in
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psychology and as a you know, doctor lital student, and
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sort of like my scientific mind was like starting to
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get curious, you know, why is this happening? And so
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I decided to do different a dissertation, solve a problem
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in a sense.
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So that's what you know, This is how the book
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kind of came out. So it's been years, it's been
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the progress for years.
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And while the book is geared towards actors and been
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written you know, initially for actors. It's really there's a
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lot of good insight in here that can really be
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topical to anybody.
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Well, and that's true. You know, you talk about to actors,
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and you know you mentioned the imposter syndrome, and I
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know there's a specific psychological definition for that, but I've
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I've come up with my own definition, or at least
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an alternate definition, and that's people who are acting. They
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are literally acting as though they think they should act
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and behave rather than who they really are. And and
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so it all in the case. We're all kinds of actors,
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aren't we.
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Yeah, I mean we're playing a role well every day,
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you know, like.
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Whether you know, whether we're with our family, with in
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our professional circles, you know, where our you know, see
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when others were playing different roles when their parents where
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their child.
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You know, children, if we have children, we're playing different roles.
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We're playing you know, Carl Young called it the persona,
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you know, we're putting on a persona. So yeah, we
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think about wolfs sort of actors. And I think even
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your definition can you know, even fit into the traditional
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definition to some level, because you know, if you're saying
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it putting, if you're acting, maybe you're not acting, you know,
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any authentic way.
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So true. And when you when you talk about rising
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about the script, what what is the script? What's your
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definition of the script? For people?
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The script?
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The script is different than you know, when people hear script,
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they think of the you know, a paper or you know,
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a play.
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Or something they're reading.
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But here I'm talking with the script in your mind,
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your especially your subconscious mind.
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Okay, yeah, right, so let's let's get into that. I mean,
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as you've noticed the actors and you know, you mentioned
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a little bit earlier before we came on that you
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work with a number of students and so who are
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not necessarily actors, right.
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Right, you know, but if you want to think on
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a pure scheme of things or acting, they are actors
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or students. But what I've noticed even with them is like,
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you know, some of them are really are really bright
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and really intelligent, but they they would stop coming to class,
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they would stop doing the work, and I couldn't figure
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out what's really happening here, you know, initially in the beginning,
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or they would even like talk, you know, use negative
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self talk, you know, or I'm not a good test
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achor I'm not a good student, and they would actually
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really verbatimly tell that, explicitly say that. So I've always
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wondered what what's really going on here?
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Yeah, it's interesting how they they start to talk in
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themselves and that becomes their reality when in fact, you know,
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and this is a tough one because you talk about
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reality and you know, from my understanding, reality is strictly
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based on our perceptions, mainly subconscious, and that becomes reality.
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And your reality is going to be so different than
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my reality.
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Of course, and that's our reality subjective. There's really no
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objective reality.
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Yeah, yeah, like and you know, even on a.
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Pure you know, if you you know, for the listeners
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out there, think about you go to see a movie
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with a friend. You know, you could have thought it
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was the greatest movie ever in your friend could have
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thought it was, you know, a terrible movie. Yeah, And
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the question is who's who's right, who's correct?
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And you both are, you know.
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In a sense, because it's your perception.
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Yeah, that's so true. So we've mentioned imposter syndrome. Can you,
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as a psychologist, could you share with the audience the
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actual definition of the imposter syndrome is the idea.
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Of imposter syndrome. The word imposter means for yes, you know.
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So what happens very often is, you know, we start
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to doubt ourselves and we start to feel like we're frauds,
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like you know, I know there's also a fear of
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we're going to be found out two that we're frauds,
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you know, like for me, you know, it could be like, uh, well,
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you know, whether like if I'm debating.
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I want to write a book or not.
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You know, no one's gonna take I'm gonna get bad reviews,
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no one's gonna like my book. So what will happen
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is I'll we'll do it period. I won't put myself
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out there or if they think that someone's gonna find out,
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I really don't know everything. And therefore the best way
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to steal myself from that is I won't apply myself.
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I won't put myself out there. It'll be safe when
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we play it safe. And so it's it's really a
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self imposed limitation too.
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And and is it usually based on what fear or
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what is it?
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Multiple factors, but fear, I would say it would be
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the primary motivated, primary focus would be fear, uh, fear
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of failure, and even fear of success too.
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Success can be scary.
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Well, and you know that's interesting. You hear so many
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different levels of intellect saying, you know, do not fear,
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thou shalt not fear, on and on and on, and
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yet there seems to be one of the major experiences
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that we all have to some degree. Yeah, level, how
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do you work with how do you work with your students?
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How do you work with people who are exhibiting a
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great deal of fear and how do you observe what
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their behavior is? How do you pick up the fact
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that in working with someone that, okay, one of their
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major challenges is fear.
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Well, it would be looking for the signs like they
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don't want to try anything new.
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They want to say in their routine, their comfort zone
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and that's the biggest, you know thing, One of the
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biggest tell tale signs is.
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Someone unwilling to step outside their comfort zone and try
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anything new or you know, take any risks. You know, again,
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playing it safe is probably the biggest indicator. If they're
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playing it safe by not doing, you know, things that
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would make them slightly uncomfortable. Again, it could be you know,
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putting your resume out there could be you know, going
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on stage to make a resentation.
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You know, that could be scary.
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So one of the best ways to the only way
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you're going to really overcome fear is by.
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Facing it, you know, by facing your fears. So that
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would mean.
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Putting yourself out there, you know, by you know, whether
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it's even if it's speaking. You know, if you have
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a fear of public speaking, go speak in a small stage.
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You know five ten people.
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Do even do something on zoom, you know that where
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it's safe from your own home, at least in the beginning,
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and then gradually build from there. So the only way
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you're going to face that fear or really get over
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that fear, overcome that fear is by facing it head
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on and by confronting it so you know, again you
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know that fear is going to work against an actor
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because as an actor or performer, you really have to
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put yourself out there if you want to have a
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working liver or any momentum of success, so that the
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fear of additioning or the fear of putting yourself out
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there has to be overcome.
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And you know, a lot of times we're in denial.
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We might we don't even realize a lot of times
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we have these fears, you know, consciously.
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Yeah, And you know, it's interesting as I've interviewed a
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number of lovely ladies who have gone through some horrendous
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experiences in their life and found themselves in that those
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codependent relationships with people with men who are abusers, right,
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and they can't get out of it, and ultimately they do.
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But as we've talked about that, one of the biggest
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things that comes up is the fear of change. In
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other words, they're more fearful of change than they are
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of the present environment and experience. So as you talk
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about fear, we've got fear of change, We've got fear
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that I'm not good enough. What are some of the
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other fears that come about that are really imprints in
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people's subconscious minds, That is, they had no control over
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that initially.
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Yeah, fear of disappointing others, letting other people down. And
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I think that also ties in a whole codependency or
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the people pleasing mindset. Is well, if I say no,
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if I put my when I set a boundary, I'm
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going to disappoint them. And maybe that could do with
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the way we were raised too, because very often I
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would I would even imagine that a lot of these
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you know, codependent women and men, you know, because I
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believe it's it's an equal yes.
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Thing grow up.
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I think even with parents that they had to jump
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through hoops to get their parents' approval, whether again that
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was reality their perception that they had to work really
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hard to get their parents' approval, and maybe they didn't
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get enough of that, so they substitute adult relationships to
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their parents in this sense that goes out subconsciously, so
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they're fear of letting other people down again, fear of success.
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Fear of money is also a one that I kind
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of discovered that I wrote a chapter Brothers in my book,
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it's fear of money because a lot of times you
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meet grow up in families where you're told money is
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the root of all evil. I'm not an evil person,
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you know, I don't want to be evil. And actually
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that quote was taken out of context.
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Oh yeah, there's a lot of things that are taken
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out of context that really have inundated people with a
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feeling of guilt, of shame, of all of those types
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of things. So how often how often is you're working
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with people and you know, this gets to be a
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very delicate subject. And I've had other people talk about
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it a little bit, and definitely some psychologists talk about
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the fact that you know, as you're starting to work
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with people who are really self sabotaging, as you can
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observe that you know they're in the imposter syndrome, they're
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self sabotaging, they're not experiencing the life that they truly
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deserve or could have, and they go off to therapy, okay,
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and they go through talk therapy and nothing gets resolved.