From Outward Success to Inner Fulfillment: A Conversation with Ben Robins

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0:44 Denzel Washington, welcome to inspire Vision. Our sole purpose is to elevate the lives of others and to inspire you to do the same. Ben welcome, Thanks for having me. Donnie Strikes and be here. Hey, I'm looking forward to it. Let the audience know where you are right now. I know you're a world traveler, so. Yeah, like you, I'm out of my home country. I'm currently in Sri Lanka for the next couple of months. Oh that's fantastic. You know what I find is really interesting is you know, as I've read some things about you and what you're doing, I find it really fascinating that you were very much into business, and I know you still work very much with people in business. But what is your story that brought you to the point of moving into this direction where you're really now helping people, mentoring people, coaching people in their business as well as their lives.

1:38 Yeah for me, Yeah, thanks Doug, It's it's been a wild ride, really, I think for me, as you said, my background is very much in business. I spent many years or over a decade climbing now what you would say, corporate lab building up the business with someone else, which culminated in the kind of last step me leading me for kind of a global consultancy, fast growing consultancy, double digit millions under management, all of these sorts of things that have the trappings of. Success right. And to everyone on the outside, it looked fantastic, living in the best part of town, doing all of the things that you would want to be doing at my sort of age, But it just didn't feel like my version of success. It felt like someone else's, whether that was my parents or my mentors or societies, and so it felt quite hollow, and that led me to realize that there's plenty of other people that have led the same live as me, that have led the traditional path, succeeding in every metric that you can imagine, but it wasn't for them, or it isn't for them, And so I help now people redefine their version of winning, whether that means applying the great success that they've had in their career and helping them reinvigorate marriages, or reconnect with their kids, or maybe get back into health and live a ten.

2:58 Out of ten life on their terms. But for them and for me, it's really about understanding what they want now and how they can go about getting it. So did you make a major change? Did you move away from all you were doing and doing this now as a new whole environment. Yes, it was quite a drastic one for me. I make it very clear that nobody else needs. To follow in my footstep, but yes it was. It was a case of saying, okay, this was a fantastic chapter in my life. It taught me a tremendous amount and I'm incredibly Brett grateful for having the opportunity to do it. But when I took a step back. It was actually one of my colleagues that asked me what was it about work that you really enjoy? And I answered, well, it's about the team. The team that I have, I want them to go on and become vps and fulfill.

3:49 The life that they want. And it made me think, actually. Okay, well if I do this with twenty twenty five people at the moment, could I not do this continually with more people? If I had a coaching practice in this sort And so that's what I've begun to do, and that's what I'm doing right. Now, is coaching people that have achieved great outward success try and live that inward success that they've really been looking for and also extend that to different areas of their life as well. Well. And as you say, you know, making that major change can be really tough. Yeah, I went through that, believe me. And so and yet for how successful have you being able to help people make that change and still maintain where they're at in their professions and their work whatever that happens to be versus scenes many of them decide that you know what, this really isn't for me. I need to make a change. What have you found. Is the percentage one way or the other.

4:47 I would say the vast majority, eighty ninety percent stay in what they're doing right. I think often people come to me because they think that they would like to make a drastic change. Like I have done, but they don't know exactly how to do it. But very often what that signals is they haven't been incredibly intentional about their life. And so they tell me very often that their wife is their number one priority, or their family or whatever it might be, but they're not living in accordance to that. So once we get very clear on what is important to them and that they're not living in that way, then it's about repositioning their lives so that it does make a lot more sense, so that they can reposition work in a sense that makes sense. Might be cutting out meaningless meetings or repositioning the way that they sharp at work, or things like that.

5:35 But yeah, the vast. Majority of people live their version of a ten out of ten life by retaining the career that they've built, and in many ways do far better in their career because they position themselves as better experts and can lead more clearly in all of those sorts of things than they came to and then yes, it's a very small percentage that then say, Okay, I've done all of these things, I still want to leave, and then we look at what that is and how they can build a career outside of what they're existingly doing. Okay, so as you work with quote executives, how applicable is the information we're going to talk about today, How applicable is it to that medium worker that's just trying to, you know, support his family and yet he's not really finding that happiness. Does it apply all the way up and down? Or what are your thoughts on that? Yeah?

6:30 I think honestly, if you were to distill what I do down to one word, it would be intentionality, right, being very very intentional about the life. That you live. I actually tell my clients quite often that the weirder your life looks to everybody else, probably the truer of that life is to you. And so, yes, it doesn't matter at what stage in your career you're at. As long as you are defining your life around what is important to you and you're sticking true to that, then you can make it. Yeah, you can make it your version of your best life. You can make it your version of winning. It's just obviously with executives, I have that extra Okay, I've been there, I've done that. I can articulate the journey and.

7:10 The pain that you're going through in a slightly different way, and so that's where I tend to focus my energies. But yes, of course it applies to everyone. So you made a couple of comments someone, I'm going to really focus on Number one. Here, they are working, whatever profession they're in, they're working and they're being successful, but they're not really happy as you're at least finding that satisfaction as you talked about. And yet oftentimes we're told that. I mean, I grew up in a family where the five boys were told by my dad, you are going to be successful, you are going to be professionals, on and on and on, and so that's where we went, and I think so many people have been brought up you know that, you know, get your education, be successful.

7:57 If you don't get an education, just get yourself a good job. And then you hit the other point where they're doing that and they're not really finding that satisfaction in that piece. But then you mentioned that here's somebody else that says, yeah, the most important thing to me is my family, my children, all of this, when in reality they're not really living that. Yes, So how do you help people? I kind of call it the imposter syndrome. I know there's a different definition from that, but I kind of call it, like, you know what, we're not living our true life, we're living someone else's someone. We're living what someone else told us we need to do. And even as you say, we need to be close to our family, we need to do this, we need to love our wives or our spouses or our partners, whatever that is. And yet, as you said, they're not really doing it. So how do we get past this is what you should do and help someone to reach a point of becoming who you truly are, being true to your personal individual values that are innate within you.

9:04 Yeah, look, and I completely get it, Doug, Like, obviously that's what I did as well. I lived society's version of success, the shoulds that we go through. And yeah, look, obviously, being in Schlanka, I see the importance of education as well. You very often in the West, in North America and England, whatever we say our education isn't so important anymore. Everybody just goes out and starts our business and things like that. Being in places like this, you realize that actually education is fundamentally important because it separates people. It gives you the opportunity to succeed and think differently than others. Right, So, I'm not here to bash the traditional path. I'm not here to necessarily say to move away from it if that makes sense for you. Right again, if you want to become a VP or a CEO of an organization or power to you, and I can help you get there, or we can talk about that, but it's making sure that it's you all right path, And you spoke about authenticity, and authenticity I think is very central. Right for me, It's about understanding what have you been your motivations to succeed.

10:10 So it's not just that society has told you something. I think it's that you have some subconscious story that is propelling you forward, that is making you do those things. So for me, I picked up many and as many of my clients do as well, picked up subconscious scripts as a child, as a teenager that then force you to then live out a life in a certain way. For me, I'll be very transparent. It was around the feeling of not being good enough, perhaps something wrong with me, etc. That meant that to try and prove myself wrong, I was constantly trying to achieve trying to find that internal gratification externally. And so one thing that I quite often do with clients, maybe not right at the beginning, but it's uncovering those stories so that you can see, Okay, where am I doing the things creating the life from an energy that I really want it, or where am I running creating a life from fear where I'm trying to prove this story wrong all of the time.

11:11 And then when you can finally put that tory down. At thirty forty fifty, whatever it is that the people that I'm talking to, then you can suddenly say, okay, okay, I have a bit of opportunity to breathe a little later, and I can reassess, actually, what is authenticity to me? How do I want to act, how do I want to show up in the world, and what is the mark I want to leave? And that's really a very important step for me. Well, as we talk about success, I think it's interesting how different people define success in different ways. But here you're talking about life success, How would you define that for me? For me, as I said, it's a little weirder that perhaps most people's right.

11:52 I live in Sri Lanka. I've been here for the last nine six or nine months, and for me, it's about living on my own terms. So I live in a warm place. That's very important. I come from London, not so warm, not so sunny. I want to make sure that I can get out, go to the beach, go for a swim, spend time with my partner. She's obviously a fundamental part of my version of success. Make sure that I contribute to people's. Lives every day in the way that coaching enables me to do, speak to interesting people such as you, Doug, and then continue to build momentum in the business. Right that, for me at this version of my life is success. It's very simple. It's very different than it was in London, but that's really where I envisage my life continuing to be for quite a period of time.

12:39 Do you find that there's a general definition for people as you work with executives, you work with other people, do you find that, as you said, you know, they're so busy in their work and that seems to be the thing they need to do. And we will go into mindset a little bit more in a while. But do you find that there's a definition for them of success that when it really becomes real, where they're really finding a sense of peace in their life and joy and love as well as still being successful in whatever profession they happen to be in. Do you find that there's a reasonable definition for people of what success genuinely means in our lives.

13:20 I think there's an answer that people give me as the first answer that feels like the safe answer, that feels like they're socially approved answer. I don't like to stop there, right, I like to keep on asking and tell me more. And often the more depth we go into, the more I ask explain that what does that mean for you? The more we peel back the layers, and the more unique it appears for each individual person. Right. For some people it's going camping with their mates on the weekend. For some it's yeah, their family for summits, they want to go r V racing or. Whatever it might be. But yeah, I think that to live your true version of winning. It has to be something that is unique to you and so therefore, well, yeah, there might be common themes around family and health and business and money and things like that, but it's the fuzzy bits on the edges that make your life interesting and make it feel really like yours.

14:12 So it's really individual. If I hear what you're saying, it's really individual. But also it's just a sense of feeling that joy and that peace in your life, whether, as you say, whether you're doing it. I mean, I've got one son that runs five miles a day and just exercises and so on and so forth. There are others that do different things, but the reality is that the final the final item, is that they're feeling a sense of peace and happiness as well as potentially success in their lives. Yeah, for sure, for sure, it's I think peace and happiness and fulfillment, freedom. These are the things that people very often come to me and say that they want.

14:55 Right. I think fulfillment again can be broken into like love, connection, joy, a liveness. Right. When people start to get these emotions into their lives, life starts to feel a lot more fun and you actually get. To play a lot more with it. Right, And very often for me, it's giving people permission in many ways to have a larger vision for their life and what it can mean. It doesn't have to always be as conservative as many people play it. And so, Okay, what is that thing that you did when you were ten or fifteen or whatever it might be that you really enjoyed that you've putten it in the closet because it didn't seem socially acceptable anymore. Maybe go and try that if that's something that you really love to do.

15:36 I don't know what it is for anyone. I'm not here to prescribe anything. I'm here to interrogate and to ask questions and to draw out the insights from them. And that's why when people ask me, do I have a framework? Do I have a methodology? Yeah? Look, I draw from a number of different experiences that I've had in my life. But this work is completely bespoke. It's completely designed around that the person sitting in front of me and drawing out their version of winning nobody else's. So here's a question that comes to my mind. You know, you're talking about people in the workforce and so on and so forth. You ever work with people who retire? Yes, of course, like what is the greatest definition of retirement I've come across, Right, I think it's naval ravakant, isn't it, doug Whether he says that you stop sacrificing.

16:25 Today for tomorrow. Right. So, in many ways, quite a lot. Of clients retire because they realize that they need to live today or they want to. Live today in and of itself. Okay, Now, obviously we make considerations in terms of savings and pensions and things like that, but yeah, I. Think that's important. And then people do come to me and say that I've retired, I've lived my entire life with this is the end goal that I'm this is going to be where I reach freedom. And fuddily enough, the trick that we've all been played is very often that that's not the case where it arrives if you spent your entire life living as so and modality living in according to Okay, I need to climb the ladder, or I need to save money because I need to make sure that I'm safe or secure at this certain age.

17:10 Oddly enough, when you retire and. You stop working, it doesn't necessarily feel the way that you thought it would. So again, it's about redefining what that means and how you can tap into that little bit by little bit, day by day to try and live more freely. And how did they do that? I don't know what you observe there among expats here in Thailand. I observe a lot of them have gone from that successful working and so on and so forth to where basically they just sit at home and watch some TV or in the evening of the bars and drink with their buddies and so forth. How do you help those that are retiring to find purpose once again in their lives, but different from their work.

17:56 Well, it's again it's about getting It's exactly the same work anyway, stug. It's uncovering what is valuable to them. So one of the most common things is I don't want to necessarily go and earn money, but I want to go and get fulfillment. I want to get give back. Okay. So it's again it's looking at their values. It's looking at understanding where they've come from, what their experiences are, what they would. Enjoy doing, and just finding small ways that they can do that. It might be going and volunteering in. A old people's home once a week, it might be starting a walking club in their local community. It can be any number of things. But it's about then building in those small things. And this is why I think it's so important that we define what success is before we get to that stage, because.

18:44 Very often we think, Okay, we're gonna have eight hours free, I can do whatever I want. But if you haven't been living your life that you want before that, you then just have another eight hours where you can watch Netflix and chill. And not do anything. As you say, go and hang out with your mates at the pub or whatever it might be, rather than living it intentionally. So yeah, for sure we can do it. It's a little bit more tricky because then you've got to say, Okay, these habits that I haven't done for thirty forty fifty years, perhaps by. This point can I start adding these in? Can I go sailing? Can I maybe go knitting whatever it might be? Right? Can Can I go and play golf with mates? It's all about the connection and that the things that they want to add into their lives. Again, the work's not so different, but it just has different a different view, a different look on it.

19:28 Well, and you mentioned something that I think is so important. I want you to expand on a little bit talking about giving back. And you know, so often we do everything that makes us feel happy and so on and so forth. But what do you find when someone is able to develop that sense of giving back and making a difference. And as you say, it can be very simple. But what happens when someone's able to start eliminating that total me, me me and start giving back in some way? What happens? Yes, I read it in some book once and I can't remember exactly where to attribute it, so forgive me. But there was a distinction that they made between the West and the East.

20:09 In the West, when. We're feeling down, we think about how to spend money on ourselves, how to give ourselves self care, how to do these sorts of things. In the East, what they're taught is it's about giving back to others. How can you contribute to others? And what they found. In this study was that the people that gave back to others showed signs of being more subjectively happy, more fulfilled, more connected to their community, whereas when we put it on ourselves in the West, that was very different. And so I think that that's very very true for the people that I work with. Yes, for sure, it's important to put your own oxygen mask on first, because then you cut. If you don't do that, you can't help others.

20:50 But in the service of others, by connecting with others, it gives you so much more back than you can anticipate it doing well. And you know, you talk about the myth of more and for me coming here to Thailand and recognizing that, holy cow, here are these people and they appear to be happy. I mean, obviously they had their own issues, but they're living on meager amounts of income, and yet you see them, they smile, they're happy. What is your concept or what are your thoughts about the myth of more? And as you say, particularly in the West, how do we find ourselves caught up in more to the point that we that becomes our main focus and we lose sight of what's really important.

21:40 Yes, again, I think even the myth of more comes back to these subconscious stories that you've carried with you, right, whether that's around safety or. Not being enough. If we're trying to fulfill these stories that we're living with that we haven't yet identified, then that along with the societal pressures and keeping up with the Joneses and what we see on Instagram or whatever makes us want to kind of do more, get a nicer house, get a nicer car, et cetera. But as you said, yeah, for sure, we see people in Thailand or people in Sri Lanka that have substantially less than we typically see and they're just as happy. But even I'm sure you see for yourself done, we see for ourselves that. Okay, well I don't actually really need a flashy car here, right, because the weather's brilliant and I can go to the beach and I can.

22:25 Hang out with friends. I don't really need a huge house because okay, well I've got a place with a pool and I've got a spare room. What else more do I need? Right? And so yeah, it's again it's about realizing. For people and making that connection with people that if you're not happy where you are, adding an extra zero to your bank account or adding an extra three rooms to your house probably isn't going to do it. So what does happiness look like for you? How can you get that now? How can you feel happiness internally so that you don't have to try and garner externally. And again, the way that I extend the feeling of more in. My work is I said that most personal development is talking about being more, trying harder, getting up at five am and doing your.

23:10 Morning ritual or whatever it might be. And I said that that's just not true. For most of the people that I work with, most high performances are already maxed out. I know that I was when I was in work. It sounds like you Doug when you were working or doing a lot of things already. So the idea of doing another thing, another effort to kind of create the life that you want, seems fruitful, at least in the first instance. So I start by stripping the things away that you that aren't serving you, that are holding you back, that might be limiting beliefs, that might be where you're spending your time. It might be any number of things, but I think removal as a first stage is often a very interesting step to start with. Well in the air card totally. I don't know if you've read his book New World but er New Earth, but he talks about the ego and really just focuses on how people allow their ego to push them in a direction. That's not necessarily the healthiest for them from the standpoint I need more and so forth. And you've mentioned this concept of I need more because it'll make me look better to the people around me, and so on and so forth. How do you help people to understand that there's a healthy ego and not so healthy ego and to be able to develop that mindset and that concept of having a healthy ego and finding that sense of purpose and happiness and start to eliminate as you say, I need a bigger house, I need a bigger car, so on and so forth.

24:40 Yes, I think as well, it's not a case of removing the ego, right. You hear that sometimes in the spiritual world, I'll kill the ego or whatever. I don't think that's the case. I don't think that's really where we want to function as humans, right. But I think for me, when it comes to unveiling. The good parts, again, it's about looking at the stories that you've got. Some will be empowering, someone will be disempowering. But it's about identifying which is which and where you are with it. So I very often I'm not a therapist. I never claim to be on the internet, right, but we do often look at childhood to see the stories that have shaped your life, and very often people say that I'm not worthy, I'm not good enough, and these common passage, I wasn't safe, these sorts of things come up, and so I make the distinction between.

25:27 Creation and reaction. Okay, And when you're living from those stories, it is very common that you're then reacting to life. My dad wasn't great, and so I'm going to do the complete opposite. My mum wasn't emotionally open, so I'm going to do the complete opposite, whatever it might be. Or my teacher told me I wasn't good enough, so I'm going to prove her wrong, or I'm going to live into that and prove that I'm really not good enough, however it might play out right. And so it's about identifying those stories and saying, Okay, are they true for you? Now? Do they serve you? Now? Are they of value? And if they're not, then can we find a way which we very often do, of putting those down. And then you have the opportunity to say, Okay, this is the positive side of the ego.

26:07 This is the thing that I. Want to create, This is how I want to live and this is just a story that I've been telling myself and trying to react to that actually isn't valid anymore. So how easy is it for you to help people achieve that? Honestly, I think it's far easier than people anticipate. Right. Typically, within the first couple of sessions, we've identified them, and then in a few more sessions we are on our way to dismantling it. Honestly, the way that I see it is it's like a Jenga tower you've played younger before you pull the bricks out, right, Once you start to pull a few of these bricks out, the tower wobbles. The whole ambition for me is to pull the bricks out so you have a clear base.

26:50 To start from. You can then really. Say, Okay, this is what I want and this is how I'm going to go after it. But many of us have built identities this structure that doesn't serve us anymore. That was valuable perhaps when we were five or fifteen or twenty. That isn't the case anymore. And if it's not the case, then why you're still living with it when you're thirty five, forty five and fifty five, and I think not to bash on therapy or anything like that, but we're very often taught how to manage these symptoms, how to manage the way that we are with things. When I just think, okay, well, let's get rid of it and start again and see where we can get to. And of course it still rears its head. If you've lived in a pattern for twenty thirty years, it comes back.

27:32 It still does. For me. I am not living a perfect life by any means, Doug. It's a life that's true to me. But it's about understanding that, yes, okay, it might come back to some degree, but I know that this is a pattern. Now, it's how do I live with it, and how do I how do I continue to push forward in the life that I want, rather than just managing symptoms or anything like that. Does that make sense to well? It does? And you really are getting to this focus on awareness mindset, because, as you say, you know, it's one thing to always be triggered by those subconscious situations or by even society in the present time. Yes, but it's another thing to recognize that it's coming up and to have the ability to say, right, that's not true.

28:22 That's just one of those triggers for me, and to be able to put it aside and not have it totally affect you. So talk a little bit about mindset awareness and how important that is for someone and how can they really achieve that. Well, the first step, as you say, is awareness, right. I think that I really identify with Carl Jung's quote of until you make the unconscious conscious, it will run your life and you will call it fact. So can you first of all become aware of the patterns, the triggers, etc. That are coming up? Yes? And then I think you spoke about it beautifully in a previous podcast with the Lady that was talking about love and how to think about love. You talked about how, okay, am I getting triggered by this moment or something that happened to me a long way back in the past, And that gap where you can spot the difference between what's actually causing the response and what actually is is incredibly valuable, and that gives you space to say, Okay, I have the opportunity to react differently. I have the opportunity to be a different person in this moment, And it's like going to the gym.

29:30 As you do that more and more, you get stronger in that muscle of not. Reacting instantaneously, and then, yeah, that's the first step of the work that obviously my anticipation as we go through this is that we lessen that story so that the reactions become less and your muscle to spot the gap becomes even stronger, so that you aren't getting caught in these trigger points so often, and you live a more and more free and fulfilling and peaceful life. So I have many some times you observe as you're working with an executive that is narried or in a relationship, and you mentioned your own, Yeah, how does this help to improve relationships, not only in those real close personal ones, but even relationships with people that are friends and so on and so forth.

30:22 Well, does it not improve everything? If your relationship with yourself is better, if you're less reactive, if you're able to be more present, if you can therefore listen better, and rather than thinking about the right thing to say, you're actually responding and being part of a conversation with someone, does that not change everything? In my perception? It does. It changes your relationship with your wife, with your kids, with your family. And as I said before, this is not about giving up ambition. It's not about slaying that ego. Right You still, in many ways want you're an executive, You want to continue to do well, You still want to be good in business. And this serves because it means that you can show up more as an authentic leader, which authenticity has been shown to have a very very high frequency level.

31:09 That means that you can get people along on the journey. It means that you can probably lead them better. It means that you're more open receptive. To feedback, which probably means that you progress quicker, and earn more and do all of the things that you want to do on the side as well. Right, Well, and that's true. I mean, I hear the stories of executives' situations where someone new comes into a particular department and it becomes a nightmare. The employees are just so upset and frustrated and anxious because of that. And how often does this very sense of self worth and true awareness and mindset help an executive to become a better executive And rather than getting fired because they're not getting the whole department to produce, they're actually succeeding.

32:00 I think one hundred percent of the time. If you can be there, more balanced, more centered for yourself. What ultimately are you doing. You're modeling things for your teams, right And if you're steady in a storm, if you can think clearly when things are going wrong, if you can lead with confidence and conviction, then you're modeling the right actions for your team right. And that, ultimately, I believe, means that that team is going to function better, more effectively, especially if then you are open in communication, if you can have non passive aggressive communication things like that, it means that then that's a possibility for the rest of your team because they feel comfortable doing it. And I actually make the distinction on my website. I very often think and executives will come to me and say, I've got a strategy problem. You're going to be the best person to find that strategy. In all likelihood, you probably don't have a strategy problem. You have a thinking problem, you have a clarity problem, you have a mindset problem.

32:55 So let's work that out. And then with a huge amount of likelihood, that's going to solve your strategy problem, because then you're going to be able to think through the things and disseminate information from different points that it's going to make your strategy far more clear and easier for your team to follow well. And you know, as you talk about personal responsibility in relationships, whether it's at work or otherwise, what have you observed when an individual you know has really got a lot of those issues, but as you work with them, and as they start to really develop that sense of self and worth and value and get rid of some of those triggers, what have you observed, both in business and in personal life, how does that affect the relationships, whether with their employees or whether with their important people in their lives.

33:50 Yes, so the relationship front, it transforms them right because they feel better. And so again it's not a case that they are trying to garner feeling from outside of themselves. So they're not people pleasing. The imposter syndrome is somewhat lower, and so they're not trying to do things from a bad place of ego that we talked about, and so the relationships are more honest, more transparent. And serving the greater purpose very often. So on your website, because I went through that and it's interesting to see what you have there. One of the things you talk about is boundaries, and I'd love for you to share that, because I think so many of us experience this boundary issue and don't really know how to set boundaries in our lives that allow us to really be happy and not be affected and be at the affected as you say, of other people and other situations.

34:50 So I think it's slightly interesting stance on this. Right. Again, I think that we often say that we want these boundaries, the type of people that cross our boundaries or whatever. Right, it's very often very important to be clear with boundaries, etc. And to say this is how I want things to be, and be clear with people. In terms of the communication. But I also think that it's very important to look internally about that, right because if things are triggering you, if there's a you're getting a response that you don't want from outside of you, it's often an indication that you are haven't fully reconciled or integrated of you about yourself. Yes, and so again the work that we will do is understanding why does that cross your boundary? What about that is it uncomfortable for you to sit with? And can we identify what that is? So that when that shows up, you don't get triggered by it, but you can communicate clearly why that doesn't sit with you properly.

35:45 And so, yeah, it's it is about defining. Them, it's about being clear about them, but it's also understanding what is the why is that impacting you? And then how can you communicate that clearly in the moment rather than from reaction, but just from Okay, this is how it is. This isn't a great thing for me for X y Z reason, Let's move forward in a more constructive way in the future. Well, another comment that you have on your website which really resonated with me is this concept of find joy in who you are, not just what you do, and theologically, which I'm very interested in. It fascinates me that we're taught so much by various religions that do do do do do, and I think that affects a huge amount of people versus becoming B B. And so what are your thoughts on that and why do you have that on your website? What have you observed and the importance of becoming who you are rather than just doing.

36:49 Yeah, a silly example that I give is I was having this conversation with a client the other day, and we were talking about how very often you hear about people that look ludicrous successful from the outside, that have perhaps taken their companies to ibo, they've rung the bell in New York or whatever it might be, and then they speak about on the other side of it, they feel lost or confused or unhappy because they thought that that achievement would make them feel the joy that they had been delaying for so long. And the conversation developed into saying, Okay, well, what ultimately is that, Well, that's the ultimate victim mentality. I will only be happy when you've made a contract with yourself to say at this point, I will allow myself to feel those feelings of joy.

37:34 Right, and again, it's perfectly natural. Right. I experienced this myself to this day, even though I talk about this day by day, even when I quit my job and I talk about it on my LinkedIn. I had a business plan written up for this business that I was going to start that was going to make me millions of dollars that I was going to sell. I wasn't going to enjoy necessarily the business while I was doing it, but I had the skill set and the aptitude and all these things to make it happen. And then it wasn't until again I did more and more of this work with. Myself that I realized that I was still, even though I had changed my circumstances, I was still running this script that wasn't serving me, and I was still saying on the other side of this, there will be happiness, they will peace, that there will be joy. And then I just thought, Okay, well, why don't I just circumnavigate all of this and just go and do the thing that I want to do, which is coaching people, which is connecting people, which.

38:25 Is kind of having them a more fulfilling and joyful life day to day. And so yes, I'm not asking people to, as I said, to come and do what I've done, but it's can you get more joy into your life now? Can you do more joyful things? Can you spend more time being silly with your kids? Can you go and let's do more spend more time playing racketball or squash with a friend. Can you go camping with your buddies. Can you go and do these things with your wife? Whatever the joyful thing is with you now, don't delay it. Don't make that agreement with yourself that it's somewhere distant in the future, because invariably there will be more steps to get there. You realize, Can you build that into your life now and live that now? Any stories that you can share that really show an amazing transformation of an individual without naming names, Yeah.

39:12 Of course, I think there's so many transformations. I think I'm in the transformation business, right, So that's what we aim for every single day. But yeah, I. Think there's just I'll just talk about the ones that are reviews on my site or on Google or whatever, because I think obviously people have given permission for that. But there's one lady that when I met her, she wasn't my traditional client necessarily. She actually had had good success in a career middle management, etc. In marketing. But actually when I met her, she was quote unquote homeless, right, she was. She was moving from. House to house, trying to keep costs down, living in Amsterdam, quite unhappy, etc. And what we've done for her is she now lives in Valleice's probably not too far from you, etc.

39:56 In terms of geographic in Asia, right, and she now does more fulfilling work on the side, she's a coach, she does work, but she's actually now on the precipice of then signing a six figure contract to go and work with a business. So for her to take her from where she was to where she is is a radical transformation. And we didn't do that just through defining a CV or defining her work. We did it again by understanding what was her joy, where was she living in reaction? What are the things that are holding her back? That sort of thing. I worked with another guy again, he's recently left a review for me. When we first started speaking, his apartment had actually been bombed because he lives in Israel, right, and he then has radically transformed his life. He's set up a business in Dubai's in accordance with the life that he wants to live. He's closer to his daughter, he's got a fantastic relationship with his wife, all of these sorts of things. And then another one a business owner.

40:52 Her story was that business is hard, and so she was doing everything within her power to make the business that she was running as complicated as it could be. And so when we removed that story, not only did her business triple, but she also had far more ease in her life because it wasn't always about making it. As complicated as it could be. We pointed out all these areas that would make her life so much more simple, so much more easier for it to run. And so suddenly she got more time back, she got more opportunity to do the things that she wanted to do. And so, yeah, these are great transformations. But just to I a long answer, but just to add on the end, For me, these things are fantastic. These are remarkable transformations. But what I often am far more excited by is the.

41:36 Ripple effect that people get. Right, It's not just the transformation for that person, it's the transformation for their spouse, for their partner, for their kids, for their teams, for their businesses, and so it goes far further than I could ever possibly see. But when they tell me that their wife is subjectively happier, when they tell me that they've had more connection with their kids, that's the real joy for me, because I know that not only have they changed their lives, but the lives of people around them that I perhaps will never meet has also changed as well. Oh and you know what, You've hit the main point I think is how often as we change, we start to make a difference in other people's lives, even if we're not doing it consciously. So as we come to an end, how do people find you?

42:20 So the very easiest way is to just go to my website, So bendash Robbins dot com. You'll find my LinkedIn there. I write on LinkedIn daily and yeah, if you obviously want to get in contact, please do. But the easiest place for them is to find me on my website. Excellent. So, as we close, what would be kind of a final message that you'd like to share with the audience. I think the final message, Doug, is that you can find and reach your own version of winning, your version of success. Just because you've been told from society to live in accordance to a certain way, that doesn't mean that that. Has to be the way that you live. So chase down what you want, find that joy, find that piece, find that happiness in the moment today and if you want, we can help do that together so that you can live the life that you love today and not necessarily just tomorrow.

43:10 Ben, Thank you so much. Is this has been a great conversation. Perfect Thank you very much do. I appreciate it. What a difference you're making, and I think you're insight about how we can change ourselves. We make such an impact on those around us that we can never even keep track of. So anyway, thanks so much, and folks, thanks for joining us. Hope you've enjoyed it. Look forward to having you join us again soon. This is doctor Doug saying now mis day