Blind Spots, Brave Hearts — Jerry Clark on Healing Relationships

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0:44 Denzel Washington, welcome to Inspire Vision. Our sole purpose is to elevate the lives of others and to inspire you to do the same. Jerry, welcome to the show. Thank you, un well a pleasure. Hey, I'm excited to have you on the show. So where are you residing. Well, I live in the suburbs of Houston, halfway between League City, or between Gallison and Houston, in a little town called League City. Okay, so you're what about ten hours away from me? Yeah? I love it down here. Yeah, you know. I find that it's really fascinating. Everybody has a journey, and I'd love for you to share with the audience your journey, because you've done some amazing things in your life and somewhere along the line has brought you to this point that you're really working with people and trying to help them in relationships and so forth. Share with the audience briefly your story and how you got to this point.

1:44 Sure be happy to you. I grew up in Westsex's San Angelo. As matter of fact, I was the fifth of six children, and we lived kind of in the rural areas. And early on, after graduation from from high school, I went to college their year and decided to join the Marine Corps and I spent two years in the Marines, thirteen months and eleven days of that in Vietnam. And after that I came home and about a year later I got married. And the tragic thing about that was I wanted to be the best dad and the best husband, but I didn't know how, and so the marriage failed. After about thirteen years and two years later, Conne and I met and we got married. Say we got married about two years after that, and before I knew it.

2:33 The relationship began to go the same way as it was before, and although I'd been to counseling before, we decided that we needed to go, and going the second time and going for a reason to change myself because what I was doing wasn't working, was a miracle and the marriage began to heal and worked well. I worked thirty years in the corporate world and telecommunications as an engineering and construction manager and really enjoyed that work. I supervised almost five hundred people when I moved down here to League City, so it was a big job and I loved it. But after going to counseling, I decided that, you know, what is something I might want to do, and I looked into it. It took it would take a lot of years of college and other kinds of preparation to be licensed, and anyway, I decided to go, and as I went, I just got more and more enthused.

3:34 And I graduated in nineteen ninety six and worked a part time in my private practice and full time in my job as an engineering and construction manager. And I've done this for the last almost the last thirty years now, so I really love it. I've enjoyed it. It's been amazing ride. And although my wife would like for me to retire, I old, I'm going out beat person. I just love what I did working with people making a difference. My dad didn't retire till he was eighty seven years old. He was a university professor, and I think he kind of embred that with all of his kids, life can get a little bit boring if you retire completely. Yes, and I just can't say that, right, Oh, amen to that so great story. You know what's fascinating to me is how you know some of these elements that come up in our lives can literally change our direction, and I find that fascinating. I want to talk to you a little bit about your counseling because you said that with your first marriage you also went to counseling.

4:41 Is that correct, yes, sir, Okay. Tell me the difference between the first experience you had with counseling and the second experience you had with counseling, and what made the difference for the second one to be so successful. In the first experience that I had, I went with the attitude or who knows more about me than I know? And who can tell me what I need to be doing that I don't know already. So I was very resistant and probably not a very good client because I just knew I had all the answers and that was what was causing me all the trouble. And the second time that I went, I went with the idea that if I don't change, I'm going to I'm going to be a rip in relationships the rest of my life.

5:34 And so it was a change of attitude and the story I can tell you about as we were in couples counseling, I did like it really made the difference. And we'll get into that story I in a bit. So the other question I have, and I've been to counseling too, and what I find is I've talked to others that oftentimes in counseling, as you go in, the counselor seems to lean towards one person as not as much a fault and the other person as more in fault. What's been your experience and how do you handle that as a counselor and what do you suggest to people if they go into a counseling situation and one or the other one gets that feeling it's.

6:19 Such an obvious thing that happens. I love doctor Dog and it and it happened to me. And in fact, I think my words were, why aren't we talking about her? She's got more false than I do. And I just felt luck that I was being singled out as the as the pulprit the problem, and that made me even more resistent because I knew dang well that I was the good guy here. And that's that's one of the things that really changed my life, when when I realized that I was fighting something I didn't need to fight. That's what made me think about going into counseling. And today when I see that kind of resistance and I hear the same words that I spoke, why don't you talk to her? Why are you talking to me? Why don't you talk to him? And you know, I think I have a problem sometimes because I want so much for so many and when I see someone that's Jerry Clark, that's acting, you know, like they know it all and like they don't need to change, it's easy for me to focus on that and I admit that it's a problem, and I'll know them if they say something about it.

7:29 The thing I find is the person who's talking the most is the one that I concentrate on. Not fully, but it's it I look for opportunity for change. I say, I don't give advice. I offer experience. If you want to try something that I offer, great, If you don't, that's okay too. But it's too easy when someone is just blatantly angry or blatantly in denial to want to focus on that person because that's where the opportun unity for change comes. And I, like so many counselors, I'm sure I get caught in that, in that trap. So do you find that in most cases it's just only one or do you find that as you really focus on both people and have both people won't really do that introspective work that that makes it different.

8:19 No, it's it's absolutely two people. I say when a when a couple is having a great marriage, that's because both are working on it. When the marriage is going awrde, that means that both people are contributing to it. So by no means do I do I just focus on one person? I like, you know, having two sides of the equation and hearing two voices and two perspectives makes it rich rich for change. And you've written a book. Tell the audience a little bit about your book. All right, the book is blind Spots and Relationships. Well, I don't know. I don't know about myself. This book came into being because I sit in this office over and over again I say the same things. And the idea to me came to rather than say these things, you know, for myself to one or two people and maybe even a family, that the effects of some of these things that I have to offer made some big differences and relationships and in teams, and so I wanted to get the word out as best I could so more people could hear some of the things that might change their lives and make things easier for them.

9:38 Well, and as you talk about relationships teams, what about individuals and people who had those blind spots and so forth, maybe not being a relationship, and yet there's still struggles. I can find similar similar information there for them too, no doubt. A lot of times it has to do with self talk. And when someone is having a lot of negative self talk, they tend to show up that way, which really hurts them in many ways, not only in relationships, but introspectively. When when they're down on themselves, they're they're not the kind of person I think they want to be. So what what brought about your awareness? As you said first first time around, not so much second time around.

10:23 Something had to hit you mentally, emotionally, whatever it was, to say, you know what, I've got to really look at myself. What what brought about that awareness for you? And what do you find as you're working with clients? What are the elements that bring them about an awareness for most people that they need to. Work on themselves. Admitting that might be at faults was one thing. Admitting that what I was doing wasn't working. What really changed me was conding out in a couple and nokdo The women in that group did not like me at all, and they called me mister Perfect, mister Norton all, mister Wright. And that didn't set well with me at all. And the beauty of that is those women they really cared about me, but they were just honest and they didn't have any thing to lose by pointing out those things that I couldn't see in myself.

11:26 And although I was angry with them at first, and I didn't show that I was angry I listened to them, but they're the ones that really made a difference in me because after we'd go after we had about two hour, group would go to dinner and they'd laugh and cut up with me and we would have a great time. And it was those women who dare to be honest with me. In some cases I thought they were brutally honest, but in a lot of cases they were honest with compassion and feedback is the key to be able to hear the feedback and not what was really the key for me to change. And once I realized that I was controlling, it made a tremendous difference in my life.

12:09 Well, and as you say, it's the resistance part that is the big challenge. You can hear all of these things, but if you resist it, it doesn't do any good. So, you know, you talk about blind spots, you talk about, you know, other things. What are the habits, what are the blind spots in most people? And how do they come about? What's been your experience in that. I think we grow up with blind spots. We learned things in our families of origin that maybe work there that don't necessarily work out in the world. And so if I'm loud and borestreous. I might get away with that in my family, but I'm out push people away at work or in relationship. If I'm controlling and don't know it, our create havoc. And I think so much of the issue, and it was a big issue for me, had to do with learning how to communicate and be effective in communication and not be the one that was in charge. Would be a good listener, and that really changed to our laws and how I became more effective in relationships, but listening to understand as opposed to listen to answer or talk.

13:30 So what was your experience as a child that brought about this habit or a blind spot, whatever you want to call it, of being controlling, of being strong willed, of not being a good communicator. What was it in your childhood that brought that about? Interesting question. Being the fifth of six kids, there was a lot of teasing in our family and not you know, it was just I don't think anybody was trying to be malicious. They were just you know, anything that I said or did wrong, I got teased about it, and I became Shane became a big part in my life. I didn't want to be teased. As a young boy, I stuttered and that really caused a lot of attention and teasing, and it made me feel insecure. Shane was a big monster for me. And the idea to me was if I was perfect, no one could spot any blemishes in me. But I worked to be perfect and not have any errors, and then I stumble and Paul and someone would say something and I'd go back and to the shame pit and then struggle over soover. Trying to get out of it again by trying to be perfect was an impossible task. But to learn to accept myself as I am and know that there's a lot I don't know, and know that there's a lot of blunders I have made and probably will make, and accept those.

14:59 It's just an up in some of myself that I'm enough, and the people that are around me and in my life they think I'm enough too. So I don't have to put up any fault spreetense, I don't have to dress a certain way or act a certain way. I can just be me and that's enough. And that's such a peaceful experience. Now in the Marine Corps, I learned, you know, the word surrender never came up. In fact, that was a dirty word. But what I learned in relationships is I can surrender to win. When I called the people around me to win, I win. And that was a great thing for me to learn is that I didn't have to be right. So let me make you right and make you feel good about our conversation, and the closeness really began to occur.

15:51 So as you look at these limiting blind spots, these imprints that you had as a child, as you work with clients, what do you find. Do you find that there's a greater pauseive implants from a particular situation. Whether is it from parents? Is it from religion? Is it from society? Is it from school? Is this from friends? Is there one that stands out a little bit more? Or do you find that it's very individual and you really can't identify which one it is until you get into it. One of the things that I've learned is we are all so different. We have different backgrounds, we have different parents, we have different school we have different clothes, different food.

16:34 And that's what I respect is people's differences. Sometimes it's so easy to think that other people need to think the way I think, And that's just not the case, whether it's religion or schooling, or lack of religion or schooling it you know, I just I don't think there's a cookie cutter way of dealing with people at all. So what would you say to parents? You know, I mean, here's your experience with six kids in the family. I grew up in the same situation, only I was number two, so I was probably the teaser rather than the being teased. But what would you suggest to parents as their parenting Because the bottom line is this starts in childhood, and parents can have an incredible influence, either in a positive way or in a not so positive way, relative to those imprints that children experience. How would you help parents to understand the influence and power they have in literally helping their child to avoid some of those situations and imprints so that ultimately, as they grow older they don't quite have all the challenges that some of us have experienced.

17:53 A great question. I really think the key to being successful in life has to do with so confidence. And many times I see situations where parents are pretty autocratic like I was as a parent, which I totally regret, and finding fault is something that destroys confidence and finding things catching I call it catching kids doing things right is the key. Now that doesn't mean they get away with anything. Being being balanced, catching them doing things right and ensuring that they take care of business that needs to be taken care of it. It's a real balance.

18:39 And you know, I think emotional maturity has a lot to do with this, doctor Doug. If I'm in feeling emotionally mature, I can lead by kids. If I'm struggling financially, at work or within any kind of problems, it's easy to take it out on the children. So it's important for me to be calm, cool and collective when I'm dealing with children. Another thing I think is very important is spending time alone with each child. That really causes them to feel special because in a large family like mine and yours, it's easy to overlook some of the children that are not you know, problem with children. But I think just being focused, being genuine, being real, using a lot of choices. You know, have a choice, you can do this or that, and if you don't do this, this is going to happen, and hope you make a good choice. I think choices are another thing that really helped young kids grow into the toure adults well, and.

19:45 As you talk about emotional maturity or emotional intelligence, and you know, my experiences have been that emotional intelligence plays such a role in how you behave and how you react. And how do you help people to understand how important that emotional maturity or that emotional intelligence is, and how do they deal with in a situation where they're in work, it's frustrating, whatever, and they come home to their children, and yet they can be enough emotionally mature that they can be a level of emotions that they don't allow the previous eight to ten hours to affect their relationship with their children.

20:31 Or their spouse. Yeah. Yeah, I'll say it this way. When our anxiety goes up, our intellect goes down. And the more anxiously become, the less intellectual we are. And it's that high anxiety that causes us problems in relationship because we're not I wouldn't be in control of myself and I would come home and want to take it out on safe targets. And that's the people that love me, which is sounds ridicul is, but that's kind of the way it happens. And what I have learned is I don't have a check engine like. But what I need to know is when my anxiety begins to rise, I need to do something to increase my intellect or rure my anxiety. The more intellectual will become, the less anxious.

21:20 And so it's a it's a real it's it's an interesting phenomenon to me. What I have learned is sometimes when I'm anxious, I operate out of my reptilian brain. That's the fight or flight and I learned not to flee, so I turned to fighting. And what I learned about fighting as you win at all costs, whatever it is. And that's what I had to unlearn that when my anxiety goes up and my intellect goes down, one of the things that I really found that's the key to change. It's a physiological phenomenon that when I lure my eye level to the person and i'm talking to, whether it's someone at work or someone at home with someone and the team, it triggers me to subordinate myself and rather being in the fight or flight mode, what happens is I begin to get back in charge of myself because I'm not trying to win. Sometimes even in my office, I ask people to sit on the floor. Someone's getting angry, I'll sit in the floor with them and ask them to sit down. And the thing I wish I could have it recorded because it's all confidential. When they lower their eye level to the person they're talking to, the amplitude of the voice begins to really go down, and the connection of the conversation begins to get calm and problem solving as opposed to inflictual and you raising the

22:53 problems as opposed to solving it. I love that when I talk to children and I really encourage has to do the same thing. When you're giving instructions, if you lower your high level, will load them. You're speaking of them in a totally different way. Sometimes it's said rep killing rank, pick up that stuff, do this, do that that kind of it feels good to us and we think we're doing it right, but to them they're not. It doesn't connect as well as when I lower my high level and I'll say, what do you think I need you to do with this? So you know, do you think I need you think for backpack your inn? You know, it gives a different kind of conversation and more effective well and as you.

23:34 Use the word intelligence, I think it's important for the audience to say, we're not talking IQ, we're talking emotional intelligence. And I love there's a number of different types of charts out there that show this level of emotional intelligence all the way from joy and peace and happiness all the way down to victimhood and all of that, and recognizing that anything below boredom you get you know, frustrated anger, and it keeps going down and in order to get up there, you need to at least get bored and then beyond that start to find interest and enjoyment and so on and so forth. So I just wanted to clarify that for the audience that as you're talking about intellect, we're talking emotional intellect.

24:18 Yes, sir, Yeah, good. So how do you I'd love to hear your story because you have a story. You know. One of the things that I'm always interested in is stories that you have had with clients that have made such a difference in their lives. But as we talked about that, you said that your personal story is probably the best example. So I'd like for you now to share your story that really what happened, What was your healing and how did that occur? And you can go into a little more depth. Now, Okay. I just think that it had so much to do with shame and control, and as a boy, we didn't have a lot, and going to school with kids that did have a lot, it was very difficult for me, and I think I aired so much and trying to be more than I was, and it was easy for kids to see through that, and as a result, they knew me better than I knew myself. And you know, going into the military, it was a totally different environment and I learned a lot and I excelled in the military.

25:28 I knew that I wanted to be a marine, and I knew that I wanted to go to Vietnam, and so I was I worked hard at doing that, and because of them, my makeup and that the thought about being perfect, I was a spick and span marine, and in fact I graduated as the two Honorman my patunit of about I was seventy five guys, and I continued to excel in the Marine Corps and so the things I was doing there really worked, and getting out of there, I was ready to start a family and be a dad, and the hard part of that was I was so ill equipped because I thought, you know, being in control, winning at all costs was the way to do it.

26:18 And you know, we had two boys, beautiful boys, and they're about three years apart, and I treated them like they were in boot camp, and I wanted them to be spicking spain and flolling. Room had to be straightened up, bed had to be made, even at a very young age, and all of that I thought was making them better people. But I do recall a time when I'd gone home for lunch and my son was about maybe four years old, and I had gotten on to him about something and he was sitting in the kitchen floor, had some little overalls on and some little red tennis shoes, and he was just leaning up against the wall saying, I hate him, I hate him. And it didn't resture on me. Then, Doctor Dodwar a monster I had been until later on in my life. And when my boys became teenagers was when you know, the problems really existed, because again I was trying to be right and make them do everything according to Hoyle, had great grades, et cetera. And it was just too harsh. And that's when counseling made a total difference with me that gosh, you know, I would ask them to go mover the yard and they would just do a horrible job, and I would take the lawnmowre away from them and go, you know, finish it.

27:40 And it was just that kind of action that I was doing that it really caused me the problems. And because I was so deep in these problems, I that's when counseling made a difference. And and it just it really resonated with me. And you know, I heard a voice when I was in counseling after I've been there about a year, it said, you know, Cherry, take care of my people, and I'll take care of you. And that's when I started, you know, really feeling the call to going to counseling. And it took a lot. It took a lot away from my family to go back to college. I had sixteen graduate hours that I needed to accomplish and all kinds of supervision hours, and so that kind of took a little bit away from my family, but it also built my family because I was just a better person and going into counseling. This is where the reward has come that I say, I meet to the need hist people in the world, and mean, people don't come in here unless they're dragged. But for the most part, people come in that want something different. And it's not that I'm a hero of any kind. I can just hear things and see things that they can't hear and see, and being a fly on the wall and not being tied emotionally or through love with these people, I can offer them some things that make a difference.

29:05 And it's really it's really been rewarding to me. And about twelve years ago or thirteen years ago now, I started a group of veterans that there were you know, the statistics were that they were about seventeen to twenty two veterans taking their lives every day, and that was horrible for me to hear because of the pride I had in the military and the things that I felt about veterans. And so we again a veterans group are church. And when we started, no one came, very few people came, and we have met every Thursday evening for the last almost thirteen years. In December to me thirteen years there was a time during COVID that we had to meet on zoom but for the most part we meet in person and there it sounds it doesn't sound right, but they are about thirty to forty veterans attend our meeting every Thursday night, and it is the most amazing thing to see these veterans come together and feel comfortable because we understand each other as the veterans. We understand what we've been through. Not everyone went to war, but everyone, you know, served and the support and love. Some people come to get help in that group and some people come to help others, and it's a confidential group. People talk about things that you wouldn't think they talk about in a group that size, But it's those kind of

30:38 rewarding things, Doctor Dougot, that counseling and change in my life has made for me, and that's what inspires me to keep going to lean forward and not look back. I don't want to have any more regrets, and so I just I'm just thankful that I had the help and opportunity to continue to do what I do because it's very peaceful for me. Well, that's wonderful. How you know, as you talk about these blind spots, and they really are habits. I mean, ultimately, what happens is you know, we develop habits. You developed a habit of being controlling, as you shared, and we all have developed different habits like that. And how do you help someone what's some of the methodology that you use to help them break a habit that is not serving them well and develop a habit that will serve them and their family and their spouse and their relationships better.

31:36 I think the first first off is to help them recognize what they're doing it's not working for them, and sometimes that's very hard because we're all we can all be so entrenched in what we think is right, and that's that's the first thing. And then to talk about things like what's going to happen if change doesn't happen, But you know, what's the eature looked like if these conditions continue to exist, And that again has to do with being becoming smart, becoming wise about who you are and how you show up. And it's it just kind of morphs from there, depending on where they are, what they're saying, what they believe, and how changeable they are, how malcable they are, So it really kind of varies, but that's sort of the way it starts.

32:29 And then you talk about inversion therapy. What is that? And is that a way in which you help them to change for these habits and develop new habits. Yeah, it's doing the opposite of what our reactions have you tell us to do. I was talking into a lady a week or so ago, and it had been about five months since she lost her husband. They've been married over forty years, and she lost her husband. Had to move from where they live to here in the Houston area to be with her children so they could help take care of her. And as we talked, she kept saying, I'm lonely, sad, I'm miserable, I'm hurting. I don't know how I'm going to do this. And the more I heard her talk, the more I could see that her self conversation was just keeping her in a rut.

33:24 And we began to talk about what if you looked at some of the opportunities you have. What if you said, you know what, I'm tired of being sad and I'm going to be I'm going to work on being a little bit more happy, finding joy somewhere, And we talked about where could you find joy? And she had grandchildren, and we talked about you know what it's like to continue to say these things that bring her down. And she began to smile and she said, you know, I've never thought about that. I'm just the normal fault is I'm in grief and I'm sad and I'm hurting. And she came back about a week later it found of laughing and she said, you know, it's made a lot of difference because I'm having a different self conversation, and inversion therapy to me, has the opportunity for a person to do something the opposite of what they would normally do.

34:17 If if in relationships things start to heat up and I get mad as a reaction, what I can do is sit down and call myself. It's just doing the opposite of what I normally react to with and so's it's just turning the situation upside down to see what else could be done as opposed to normal reaction. Well, and you know, one of the things I have found is I've interviewed so many people, is this whole focus on as we become, as we become the person that we really are meant to be and who we really are, that our behavior then represents that. And you know, and then as you change your habits, if you're consciously saying good things and doing those types of things, you know, kind of the inversion therapy. Ultimately, do you find that if they keep doing it consciously, that ultimately it becomes a part of who they are, and therefore it's no longer a conscious decision, but it's just a natural decision to be kind, to be loving, to be happy.

35:26 It's that's a great point, and it would be nice if it happened overnight, but it doesn't. It takes. It takes some focus and repetition. I like the small steps, taking small steps along the way that so that you're gaining ground so that you're having wins in your life as you as you make these shifts. And you're right, the more that we say the good things about ourselves and accept the things that we mess up and but don't dwell on those to move forward and look for that peaceful joy that I think we're all looking well, you know.

36:07 And I love the quote of be still and then you can follow that with whatever you want. But this concept of stillness and being able to stop. I know that you talk a little bit about the power of writing, and that's certainly something that I find is a very common thing that the counselors like and other coaches like to use in helping someone to learn to be still and learn to become more aware of who they are and what they're experiencing. Meditation. There are so many things, which ones do you use And is it mainly writing or do you use a variety of things to help people to learn that stillness, that mindfulness so that as those negative things come up, they're able to recognize what they are and let them pass. They can be more positive and happy in their lives.

37:02 You know, A big factor I think is breathing breath work. When we focus on our breathing, we don't we can't think of anything else. Our breathing is so normal that it's like our heartbeat. We don't even we don't even know what's happening. But when we say I'm going to take them, you know, breathe in one two three, all the breeth out one two three. When you're going through that mantra, you can't think of bills, or the broken down car, or the yard needs to be mode, or any kind of distraction or worries that you might have. And so it's very powerful, and there's so much work done with U and breath work, and there are so many apps that you can use to help control your breath.

37:48 But that really brings me to that peaceful place, because when I get anxious about heart racing and breathing is shallow and rapid, and to calm that day just really ruins me to calm stay. The other thing that you mentioned is writing, and I think writing our story is very powerful because we don't realize how things in our past ricochet in our head and we don't ever calm them down. They just we jump from this to that, this to that, and writing our story causes us to really get in touch with what our thinking is and how we react to that. One of the things that I found that is very beneficial is to if someone's had a bad childhood or a problem with someone in their life, is to write them a letter and say the good, the bad, and the ugly of of what the experience was. And I have found that, you know, some people write a paragraph, some people write twenty pages.

38:54 The more you write, the better this works. And then when they come in and they read the letter to this person, it is very cathartic, and it really brings out some things and makes them kind of puts them in concrete as opposed to making them a ricochet thought. And then to me, the miracle question or the miracle thing. After they write that letter and after we go through it, I asked them to write a letter from that person to them saying the things that they need to hear, not what they think they would say, but what do you need to hear from this person? And that again just really adds to the thinking about, you know, what they need and how life would be different if they were hearing those things. So I find it. When I came home from Vietnam twenty years later, I wrote a small book called Welcome Home, where I was trying to find peace and myself because Welcome Home wasn't that great, and that book made such a difference in my life.

40:00 It gave me the piece that I was looking for. And I think anyone when they began to write, they think of something in writing where it takes a while to get it down. And the more time we spend on that, the more thoughts come back from the past that are have influences us. And it's digging up those old bones. Sometimes it really makes the difference. Well, you know, I smile. My son number two call me one day, he says, Dad, he says, you know what, we don't know a lot about your life, he says, But how about he found an app of some sort that has the children ask their parents questions and then ask you to kind of do a video on each question a little bit of the time. And we've started that, haven't gone very far with it. But what I find fascinating about that is that I believe that there are actual apps out there that if you're trying to do this and you're not real good at that, you can use something that asks you a question, you can write it down, ask you another question, and I think if you get a good one, it starts to really help you to delve, as you say, into that life experience and what's been going on so that you're able to write it down. And it makes a big difference.

41:16 It does so much have been we are evaporates, and it's fascinating for kids to know there's so much about my mom and dad that I didn't know. They had quite a history, and it would be very fascinating to have written down, you know, their travels, their hardships, and I know they both had them because back in their days they went through the depression, they went through World War two, which is horrible, and but to know what they went through would be a gold mine. Amen, And a lot of people find you, Jerry. My website is Jerry D. Clark Jersey Clark dot com.

42:02 And on the website it has the social media Instagram LinkedIn. Let's see, YouTube and Facebook are all free there, so anyone can get in touch with me in any of those social medias by going to my Facebook, my web page Jerdy Clark dot com. Okay, And how do they find your book? Find spots. That's in all the major bookstores and it's also on Amazon. Great. Great. So as we close, Jerry, what would be a final message that you'd like to share with the audience. I like the idea that life is beautiful and it can be beautiful, and sometimes we produce a lot of wreckuge that we're totally aware. The magic of that, to me is feedback and to be able to hear feedback and make the kind of changes that cause people to gravitate towards you as opposed it to be repelled. We all know so many instances where that happens, where people just don't connect with others and it's hard for them to hear feedback. For me to hear anything negative about myself was awful, But now I'll welcome feedback whatever anyone can tell me. And I don't adhere to everything someone says that I need to make a change, but if there's any kind of pattern, by all means, I want to look at that and see what I can do to call it build a better mea so I can

43:35 have a better life. That's wonderful. Jerry, thank you so much for being on the show. This has been wonderful. And what I love is the fact that I just love people that are making a difference in other people's lives. And they do that in different ways, but here you made a major change in your life and are now helping people in such a wonderful way. So kudos to you for that. Thank you so much, doctor Doug, and I appreciate what you're doing. So it's the same thing. Well, I appreciate that. Folks, thanks for listening, and I hope you've enjoyed it and look forward to having you join again soon. This is a doctor Doug saying now mistay,