The Power of Introversion: Finding Your Voice and Living Your Values with Dr. Serena Low

0:01 This program is designed to provide general information with regards to the subject matters covered. This information is given with the understanding that neither the hosts, guests, sponsors, or station are engaged in rendering any specific and personal medical, financial, legal counseling, professional service, or any advice. You should seek the services of competent professionals before applying or trying any suggested ideas. At the end of the day, it's not about what you have or even what you've accomplished. It's about what you've done with those accomplishments. It's about who you've lifted up, who you've made better. It's about what you've given back.

0:44 Denzel Washington, welcome to Inspire Vision. Our sole purpose is to elevate the lives of others and to inspire you to do the same. Serena, Welcome to the show. Thank you so much, doctor Doug for having me here. I'm really excited now. I live in Melbourne in Australia. Okay, wow, that's why our time difference isn't so bad. That's right. I'm in Thailand, so that works pretty well. So let me ask you a question, and I always ask this the people that I interview you know, you have an interesting background. You were an attorney, and all of a sudden, here you are doing what you're doing.

1:27 You have this wonderful podcast, and you've written a book and you're doing all of these things. What was your journey? What was your personal journey that brought you to this point where you were helping women and doing the things that you're doing. I think the first part of my journey will be something a lot of fellow Asians will be very familiar with, and that is the journey of pleasing your parents, meeting parental expectations, achieving those top academic grades, making your family proud, going to UNI, and choosing a course that they can brag about to their friends. So not just any cause, it has usually got to be either a law, of medicine or engineering or accounting one of the professions. So since I had no head for sciences and maths, I thought, well, let me try for law. So I did get it.

2:20 I practiced for eleven years and learned a lot. It's given me a lot of skills that I still use today, and I'm very grateful for that part of the journey. But I think the point at which it started to unravel and plan these started to reveal itself was in my eleventh year, and that was when someone asked this question at work, have you thought about what is going to happen if you continue on this path? And at that point I hadn't thought about my path as such. I assumed I was going to be like everyone else around me, just keep walking, keep doing the same thing till I reach retirement age, at which time I can rest. I can then think about what to do next. But at that moment, when that question was asked, I had this picture of myself at you know, thirty years down the road, looking back, looking at what I've accomplished. Oh, so I've got here, I've reached this point. But what if I could have done something else? What if there had been something else I hadn't tried because I didn't dare to try, because I hadn't thought of going outside my comfort zone. And so I think that question kept coming back to haunt me for a reason. And there was the beginning of that unraveling and then looking for the plan B, which didn't exist at the time. And so to answer your question, I would say it was not a linear path to get to what I do now.

3:41 It was more of a meandering and many scenic detours and many mistakes and many experiments along the way to find out what it is I meant to be doing with my talents and my energy and my time besides the thing that I had trained for. So it was a whole journey of discovery and learning and learning and basically reinventing myself. And where did you come up with this whole focus on introverts and writing your book? And so forth? The book came first, and the book came out of a reflection on the adversity the challenges I had overcome, and I thought, you know, it would be useful to put that in writing, because I've always loved writing, and I loved the thought of creating something from nothing and being able to share that with other people. But this project took on a life of its own because I put it out on social media that I was going to be writing about this topic, and I started receiving stories from people and referrals to other people telling me I've got a story like that. I've overcome adversity too, would you like to hear my story? And so I started collecting these stories and I put ten of them into the book, and so it's become a collection of stories of overcoming adversity and hardship and how to discover the warrior that the hero within yourself, the person that shows their true self, you know when times are difficult?

5:13 Who is that person? That's how the book came to be written. Okay, And what's the name of the book. It's called The Hero Within Reinvent your Life, one new chapter at a time. And how do people find it? They can find it on Amazon. Okay. So here you are. You've written your book. You all of a sudden not doing law work anywhere? Have you quit aizen attorney? That's right, I did. And what was your journey after that? What happened? Well, for a long time, nothing happened because I was in identity crisis for a few years. We had just moved to Australia from Singapore and I was busy settling the family down. We had a baby a few months after we arrived, so you know, it was all very chaotic, and I spent a few years as a stay home mom and at the same time I was processing, you know, what am I going to do next once the kids start school? What am I meant to be doing with this next season of my life. So in various you know, I guess trial and error method of you know, going out and trying different things and meeting different people. I eventually found my way to a personal development course. And this was for myself because I've always been very interested in human nature, human behavior. Why do people do things this way? Why do I think like this? And how come somebody else doesn't think the same way? And so I found my way into a coaching course, found a lot of benefit from it, and thought, this is great information.

6:42 Why do you teach us this stuff in schools? And so I started, you know, running workshops with school parents and sharing some of these ideas. And then over time, you know, one of the great well one of the traditional marketing you know advice that like to give people who are starting in their own business is that you have to put yourself out there. You have to network. And networking generally looks like going into a very large, noisy room with a lot of people, a lot of background noise, a lot of conversation going on, and you're expected to go around and work the room, introduce yourself in thirty seconds, tell people what you do and then go to another group and do the same thing again, and you could be there for a couple of hours, depending on how the event is run. So for one solid year I did that. I took the advice. I drove, you know, from one part of Melbourne to another part of Melbourne, attended these networking events, tried to get to know people and did it that way and found it so exhausting, and I thought there has got to be a better way to do networking in a way that suits people like me who are introverts. And that's how I came up with the idea of you know, where are these introvert friendly networking events? And I couldn't find any at that time, and so I went on this platform called meetup and I started my own community for introverts.

8:04 So it was networking that was friendly to introverts, curated especially for them. And then covid happened and we pivoted into the social connection side of things, so that community has now been going on for more than five years. And I think that answers your question about why the emphasis on introvert because I know what it's like to be one. I've been one my entire life. I know how painful it can be when we are forced into those social situations that are they just don't go with our energy and our personality. And so it was about finding what is a better environment or introverts to thrive, what are the situations where introvert is more likely to speak up, and then looking for that kind of solution.

8:48 Interesting, I know that, you know, I've done the same thing as far as all of these different social you know, social groups and so forth. And what I find is I'm very mentioned introvert to and so you know, you put me in a room, I'm kind of in the corner, And of course it forced myself to get out there and do that, but it was it was fascinating for me to find that if I could find someone to talk to on something that I was interested in, all of a sudden I could talk and I was no longer an introvert. So when we talk about introverts, and I know there's been some interesting studies, what's your thoughts on the percentage of individuals that are introverts.

9:33 I've heard different percentages being quoted, but I think the generally accepted one is that up to about forty percent of the population could be introverts. And when we say introvert, I also want to clarify because there are also different definitions of what that means. So on the introversion extroversion spectrum, the introvert tends to be the one that feels the energy gets depleted when they're around people. So it's not that they don't like people, it's not that they're antisocial. It just takes a lot out of them to have that conversation, to maintain the momentum, to think of what to say next, and so on. And like you just mentioned, if it's a topic that you love, you care about, you know something about you could hold court, you could talk about it all day long, and people might look at you and think that that's not an introvert, right, But if you are talking with people you don't really know about something you don't really care about, it makes you want to go into yourself and if it makes you feel like you are depleting a lot of energy just keeping up with the social side of things. So I think for the introvert, it's more of an energy management issue. It's how the energy gets recharged and how it gets used well.

10:43 And you know, as I've studied it, and the study that I saw was that about forty fifty end up introvertige. But interestingly, women can be fifty five percent, whereas men about forty five percent. And is there a reason why you focus just on women? Well, being one myself, it helps me I identify, I guess, and more readily notice the things that or the introverted women. So there's already that you know, that common experience there. It's easy to talk about things, and I guess with women also, it's yeah, we're trained to be nurturing, we're trained to listen, we're trained to sort of be in the background, and so it becomes very natural or a woman to you know, assume that background role, be on the sidelines, be the observer, be the helper, or the supporter.

11:36 That the number two, right, We're comfortable when a woman is in that role, but when a woman is aspiring to be number one, then some other challenges might come up. So I think it's to do with our conditioning, our culture, and our society's expectations of gender roles. Well, and as you said, you know, it's interesting we were talking about introverts, and sometimes it's like, Okay, that's kind of a negative thing or difficult thing, and yet you hit on some key aspects right there. Introverts tend to be more empathetic, they tend to be more kind. So what are the positive aspects of being an introvert? Oh, there's so many, Doctor Doug. Active listening is one of them, and it's one of the most underrated superpowers because it actually takes a lot of presents to listen actively to someone and not try to interrupt, not try to jump to conclusions, not try to you know, prepare what am I going to say next when they finish talking.

12:34 Because when you're like that, when you have that kind of an embracing sort of energy of you know, let me get my word in, it affects the harmony and the flow of the conversation. So for someone to be able to actually sit back and say I'm not going to do anything, I'm just here to listen and to support whatever is being said, that is actually a strength and it's a strength that could you know, I wish more people had. I wish more people listened instead of jumping to conclusions or trying to talk over other people. And that is one of the challenges introverts face in discussions in meetings. Anytimes a group of you know, different voices that are expressing views. Sometimes it's the introverts voice that gets crowded out, but at the same time, it's also the introvert's voice that makes the most impact when they finally have a chance to speak. I think we've all been in that meeting where the quietest person suddenly spoke up and everybody else stopped and paid attention, and it's almost that sense of jaws dropping because whatever they said, they spent a lot of time thinking and filtering and processing and weighing and considering everybody else's opinions before they then decided to drop that nugget of wisdom into the silence.

13:48 And that is so powerful. So active listening, along with the empathy that you mentioned, is definitely one of the superpowers. Well, and I find that interesting, and so the question in my mind then becomes, all right, so here's here's an introvert that is powerful with empathy, with with thinking, with all of that type of thing. Yeah, a little bit shy about speaking out, but at the same time very strong will and able to well, not strong will, but able to do that and yet all of a sudden, they don't really acknowledge that necessarily. I don't know what you have found, but do they really acknowledge that, particularly with clients you work with and are do you mainly work with women who want to then become powerful attorneys, become powerful CEOs? Or do you work with women who literally, as you said, you're a mother. You know you've gotten that whole part of your life that you've been able to focus on. And yet is there something else? As you said, once once they go to school, Now, what are you going to do?

14:57 How do you help how do you help these. Women in men to some degree that where you're focusing on the women, how do you help them to love what they do? More? Then? How do you help them to keep that balance? Because as you know, and as I've seen this, and as I've talked to many people about what's on the podcast, there's that movement that literally takes women away from that empathetic kindness and so forth into their CEOs and their their strong will and on and on and on. So how do you how do you balance that out? I don't know that we ever achieve that balance, doctor Doug.

15:37 It's I think that balance is actually a mythical balance, and it's different for each person. Some people, some women are quite happy being that more dominant, you know, ceo energy kind of person, and that's fine. And some people are just naturally nurturing and happy to be number two, and that's fine too. I think the important thing is the self awareness. What is it that that particular person wants in their life, whether it's personally or professionally, and they need to then acknowledge, be honest about this is what I want, and it's okay if other people think differently, well, it's okay if other people have expectations of me that are different. I then need to develop those boundaries, and I need to develop the courage to walk my own path, and I need to develop that conviction so that I'm not going to be blown about, you know, by other people's opinions. I know what it is I need to do in this particular situation, and I'm doing it for these reasons.

16:34 Well, and as you talk about introvertation, and I'm certified behavioral management, so I you know, I've really looked at this carefully what I have found, and it'll be interesting to see if you have experienced the same thing or if you disagree, which is fine. What I have found is there are certain tendencies towards introvertage individuals with personalities that are more introvertish and particul right brain that tend to get into these codependent relationships and it's very difficult for them to get out. Have you found that as you work with the women that you work with, that that's one of the struggles that they experience as a codependency and not being able to set boundaries in their life because they just really want to please and are not willing to step up and say their truth.

17:28 Yes, it is not easy. And when you say co dependency, are you referring to intimate relationships or just in general? Yes, in relationships yes, yes. Well I won't say a lot of my clients have that particular issue, but I did notice that with the people pleasing that pops up a lot. And I think that has a lot to do with childhood conditioning, cultural conditioning, and also just in general that women and girls are taught from a very young age to please and locate and to avoid content, so then we don't learn those skills. There's the important skills of how to actually manage a conflict when it arises, because we're just used to running away or denying that it happened, or doing everything we can to you know, put out a fire instead of actually having that important conversation. So, yes, I do agree with you to an extent.

18:20 Interesting and I'm not familiar with your specific culture, okay, but I know in general the Asian culture is very focused on family, on supporting that way. I observe it here in Thailand deeply, which is different from the US and to a large degree. But how do you help women who really have that sense of wanting to serve, wanting to take care. I mean, obviously you're helping your children, you're helping your husband, you're there as a mom, you're there as a housekeeper, and so of so forth, unless you get someone to get help on that. But the bottom line, you hit it on the head because all of a sudden, your kids are going to school, and that whole focus which is so important in so many cultures, suddenly is no longer as strong. And then all of a sudden, now you have to figure out what are you going to do with your life? How do you help the women that are going through that.

19:23 One of the things that we do that is very important for I think anybody to look at from time to time is the idea of values. What are your guiding values in this season of your life? And I like to remind my clients that your values can change over time. They are fluid, they're not stuck, They're not set in stone. So how you are in your twenties could be very different from how you are in your forties and fifties. Your priorities change, your health situation changes, your family life might change. All those things are going to affect what you decide is most important to you. So, as someone who is looking at the next season of life, or or how do I maximize this curren season I'm in, how do I extract the most opportunity from it? How do I make the most of it and enjoy it and live a really fulfilling life. It still goes back to values. So when you do their values exercise with a client, that's when they look they realize, you know, they can see it in front of themselves. Oh so these are my top three or top five or top ten values. These are the things that are I just identify it as being most important to me. So then now how do I make choices that are aligned with those values? And that is really important because if you do the opposite, if you say my value is freedom, but then you go do the opposite and you know, tie yourself down by some various commitments or schemes, you're going to experience that internal conflict. Right, and we are meant to be We're meant to function as a harmonious whole.

20:53 So you can't have your mind in conflict with your body and your spirit. It all has to function, you know, and flow together. So that's where the problem comes in. When you think you want one thing but that your actions show something else, or you are trying too hard to please other people and conform to other people's expectations, but in your heart, you know, you really want to go and do something that nobody has ever done before, nobody in your family has tried. They're all frowned upon it. They think that it is so irresponsible, or that's so childish, or that's not realistic. And then you have to decide, am I going to take on those beliefs that those expectations, those ideas of what's right and wrong for me? Or am I now that I'm over forty, am I going to finally be honest and say, but this is what I've always wanted to do, and I'm going to give it a try, and I'm going to see what happens, and maybe I will like it, and maybe I won't, and maybe I'll decide, oh, okay, I tried it, I didn't really like it. It wasn't the thing for me.

21:54 Let me go try something else now. And so it's also giving yourself permission as an older person was taken on all these you know, the weight of all these expectations and all these other people's standards to then say this is who I am, this is what I enjoy, this is what I don't like, and I'm going to live a life as true to that as possible. Well, and you talk about getting into your forties and fifties and all of a sudden realizing how do you help younger people? What would you say to younger people? Because we've all experienced this. You know, I come from a family of six kids, and five of us are boys and then one girl, and I went through the same thing you did, different different culture. But my dad said, hey, boys, you will all be professional. That's the bottom line. You'll all have advanced degrees and you're going to pay for yourself, by the way. But anyway, so we were, and every one of us except for one one decided that college just wasn't for him, and he really got affected. From what he tells me, my dad was really on this case all of the time because he didn't go to school.

23:06 Now, you know, who do you think is the wealthiest now? But beyond that, the reality is, how do you help younger people to be able to say, you know what, I don't have to fit into these expectations. You know, we talk a lot about imposter syndrome, and it has many definitions, but I like to use the imposter syndrome of living a life according to how you've been told you need to live your life, rather than, as you say, really being genuine, knowing what your values truly are. How do you help the younger people to get started a little bit earlier than waiting until they're forty or fifty to realize that, all right, I've been living someone else's life, now it's time for my own.

23:49 I think that's a trickial one because at that younger age, there's the issue of the prefrontal cortex not being fully developed yet and the lack of life experience to back up, so that they do have very much to draw on just yet, and so they're still very vulnerable to and very impressionable to whatever is being told to them or whatever seeds have been planted earlier. So at that point, I would say the best thing for a younger person to do is to try different things, to give themselves permission to try, and not attach any sense of failure or success to the thing. Just treat it like an experiment, treated like something fun to do. Let me go, you know, be an intern for two months at this particular company so that I can learn something about this profession. Or let me go reach out on LinkedIn and connect with five people I ad mayer, you know whose whose work I've been following, whose whose things I've been reading about, and find out more about them, have a you know, coffee conversation with them, talk to them and ask some questions.

24:51 And people usually are very open and generous when they realize that you are genuinely curious and you are interested, and you want to and you know you want to improve yourself. So there are there are all kinds of different things young people can do. But I think the important thing is to to recognize without judging that whatever you've been taught up to that point, whatever you've learned up to that point, that is useful. It has got you this far, and we can appreciate it, we can make the most of it. But now you are in the next season, you are, you have a choice. You have the ability to expand your world. So if you can travel, if that's within your means, you know, travel so that you widen your experiences, You get to talk to people from different cultures. It really opens the mind and you come back a different person. To volunteering, work in turn somewhere, be part of a course, read widely, and if possible, you know, do things that don't always require you to be attached to a screen that you know, go out in nature, be with other people, hang out with people who are very different from yourself. Because I think the older we get sometimes get very set in our ways, and that it's much harder to reinvent yourself because you are learning a lifetime of habits. But if you're in your teens, in your twenties, you have less of that baggage to deal with. So if you open your mind sooner, that's the better.

26:15 How do you help people, whether they're older or younger, how do you help them to really discover what their values are? Because I think you've hit it on the head there that you know, values really help us to either really living a life of joy and happiness and peace versus someone else's values. We find that, yeah, we're doing well, but there's always that inner sense of frustration because that's not who we really are. How do you help people to really discover what their true values are? Well, I usually take my clients through a values exercise, and when they look at that list of values, they are asked to prioritize them, number them, and that's when that really forces them to choose between this and that.

27:01 And it's in that action of repeatedly choosing until they've filtered it down to let's say ten, that's when they realize what's really important. That some things that they thought were important maybe are actually a lower priority, and some things they didn't think about but that keep popping up in their lives that keep showing. You know, it's almost like there's a red thread connecting all these various events that keeps showing like a universal thing. They will know that, they will recognize that in themselves that are, yes, this is how I've been deciding, you know, making choices about my career, about my relationships, about all the aspects of my life. This is what's been guiding me. They will find that connecting thread. And do you find that sometimes, And there's an example that I'll share, but you find sometimes that people who are not living their true values are not really finding the success in their lives and whether I don't mean financially necessarily, but just that sense of happiness and enjoy When I was getting certified in the behavioral management of one of the stories that they told in one of the studies, they talked about how two individuals have been hired to be salespeople, and they both came across in their interviews just incredibly well. And then over the course of a year or two, one was just being so successful and the other one was really struggling and they couldn't figure it out. And finally they brought someone in to really look at that, and as they got into

28:32 the values, they found that the fellow that was very, very successful, really had a value of economics and the one that wasn't successful really had a value of artistic type of thing. And so as you work with people, have you found that oftentimes when they're using someone else's values because that's what they need to do, that they don't have the success in their lives that they could if they true to their values. So I'm going to qualify that because you did mention that success doesn't have to mean financial success. So assuming that what you mean by success is that someone is feeling fulfilled, feeling joyful, that it energizes them, it gives them a purpose, then it makes perfect sense your example, because we can't help but be ourselves. So the longer you are in the game, the more the mask comes off.

29:28 There are going to be situations that are going to test you. And that's when you really know which way your values are. There's only a certain extent to which you can keep that mask on and pretend and keep up the act and do the things that outwardly you expected to do. But then inwardly there is that missing. You know, there's something is not congruent, something is out of alignment, and it's going to reveal itself because it can't I think that's the nature of truth. It can't help but assert itself and reveal itself in the most usually in the most pressurized moments. Any dramatic stories of clients that you've worked with where you've been able to move them from one level of not great happiness and success in their lives happiness wise, over to the other side. Any stories that you can share without revealing names.

30:19 When I think of the most dramatic stories, I'm thinking of those because part of my practice also involves something called root cause therapy, and that is helping the client, may or may not be introverted, helping the client to revisit certain key incidents in childhood that they themselves think I have something to do with the way they are now right, And I think that if we've read let's say, doctor Gabo Marte or doctor Besel vander Kulk, you'll understand that there is an imprint, the trauma that's left behind in the body that shows up in various, usually very inconvenient times, Just when you want to reach for promotion, just when you want to do something brave, something is pulling you backwards. And usually that thing that pulls you backwards is trying to keep you safe, and it's usually related to something that happened in the past. So some of the dramatic I guess transformations or experiences clients have had would be where in the middle of going through that process and then reflecting on it afterwards, they realized that the initial cause was not even themselves. It was something from beyond their timeline, as in, it was an ancestor who had experienced a certain trauma, and that trauma was passed down through generations and it's affected my client as well. So you know, maybe two or three generations later, they are haunted by something. They don't know exactly what it is, but because you know, through that process, they're

31:51 able to identify, oh, it was my great grandmother or something who has been through that thing, and that thing has is so powerful, has left such a strong print that in the present generation, this person is not, you know, suffering from imposter syndrome. Has a business, has an idea of vision, wants to change the world, wants to help lots of people, but just can't bring themselves to to start doing the work, to be visible, to let people know, to say this is what I do, this is how I help come work with me. So they stop themselves even before they can take those steps towards establishing the business, because something is still holding them back, something's haunting them or making them feel really unsafe to get started. So it's also in healing all that that. Yeah, that's right.

32:38 Isn't it interesting that those imprints can occur, you know, from your parents, from your society, from school, from friends, from religion, whatever that happens to be. But unit on such an important aspect that when we talk about DNA and ancestors and the fact that we don't even know where it's coming from, and yet here's this tenant and see and this reactivity and we don't know why. And yet here's this. DNA that's sitting quietly in our system of that's been passed down because of trauma, and that has been embedded in an individual's DNA. And now it's coming down that they're experiencing this when they don't even know where it came from.

33:20 I find that fascinating me too. But the flip side of that is also the good news. If we can inherit that kind of trauma, then what happens if we can heal that trauma or make peace with that trauma. What does that do for the DNA of our descendants? Yes, yes, And I think that's the key, And I appreciate what you're saying there. I've focused on this a number of times, that we can literally change the lives of our descendants by getting rid of those imprints that have affected us. I saw that with my dad growing up. He came from a situation where his dad was fairly abusive, I think, and you know, at least a strong will that would hit him with the belt and so forth.

34:11 And my dad swore he would never spank his children. And I can tell you I'm sure there were many times when he was tefted, but we were never. We were never, And that has been passed on now through our generations our children. We don't spank our kids. We don't do any of the major physical abuts. Yeah, maybe once in a while, you know, you got to correct him. But I think what a blessing that people can do for their children and grandchildren and so forth is to know that if they change that behavior, that imprint, that it will go well beyond themselves. Indeed, that is such a beautiful example. Thank you for sharing that dog.

34:54 Yeah, and you. Talk about you talk about four different types of introverts, and for you to show where the audience a little bit about. That, the four different ones are referred to other ones I'm talking about on my website. So in working with clients, what I noticed is there are those people who are the quiet achiever in the very loud workplace. So I can just picture, right, the person who's used to being number two, the person who is always in the background that other people rely on to get the work done, and we recognize they are very good at what they do, but when it comes to promotion time, we don't necessarily think of that person because they're just not visible enough. Right.

35:39 They don't talk much. They prefer to let that work talk for them, and we know how that works out. We know that it's not always about the person with the best work who gets noticed. It's the person who speaks the loudest. So that's where the quiet achiever gets overlooked, and that's a frustration. The second person I'm thinking ob is the introverted entrepreneur founder who is also a creative. So they have an idea, they have a vision, they have a calling, and they want to they want to change the world. They want to help people, they want to read transformation. They come from a very good place, very purpose driven in that sense. But at the same time, the introverted side of them is an internal conflict. So there is what I call the visibility dilemma. They know in their heads they need to put themselves out there more.

36:30 They need to do the networking, they need to be on social media, they need to be on the podcast. But they love their privacy because privacy means safety. Not being known to the public means I can stay safe. I can stay small, nobody knows me, nobody's coming to bother me. I don't have to make unnecessary conversation. So those things are in conflict because if you stay, you know, you'll be the best kept secret, even if you're the most competent. And that is their problem. And then we have the professional migrant woman and I was just talking to one this morning. So they've taken themselves into a new environment, new country, they're starting over, and they may or may not be able to continue their professional career as they did in their in their home country because of you know, licensing and certifications and having to take exams and all that and there is also the financial issue, so there's a lot of uncertainty. So new environment, possibly new language, new social norms, finding community, don't have a support network. Starting from zero, what is that experience?

37:32 Like? How do you deal with all that uncertainty all at once? How do you find your footing? And then you know, bring some structures, some stability into your life so that you can properly start over again. But that's that person. And then of course there is and this is from lived experience, the Asian good girl, the people pleaser. We talked about this before. You know, if you've been conditioned and wired and rewarded or being quiet and compliant and good and following all the rules, there's a very high chance that you go into adulthood with the same mentality, thinking that if I stay quiet and I don't make any trouble, I don't rock any boats, all will be well. But that's not how real life works. So when the boat is actually being rocked, you don't know how to deal with it. You don't know how to bring yourself into a calmer place. You're just struggling because you're coming from that place of let me avoid the conflict. So then you've never built a muscle for dealing with conflict, of having hard conversations, of saying no and being okay with it, and of disagreeing with someone's opinion and being okay with it. You'll be constantly overthinking, doubting yourself. Oh did I say too much? Did I not say enough?

38:39 Was I not you know? Did I not put it the right way? And so the pressure comes back to you. You think it's your problem, it becomes a performance problem. Actually it is not. It's simply that you haven't learned who you are, where your boundaries are, and you haven't learned to assert them and to be your own person. So those are the four types of introverts I'm thinking of. All right, in a very short time, if someone finally recognizes that they're that introvert and they're experiencing one of those areas, how do they overcome it? Do they really need to reach out and get some help? I would say to them, your introversion is your superpower. Recognize your strengths. The fact that you can listen well, the fact that you have presents the fact that you are that calm person in the midst of chaos. The fact that you can think clearly and articulate. Well, all those are your super strengths, so use them, create your own lighting so that you can shine wherever you are.

39:37 Oh, wonderful, And so how do people find you if they want to be able to reach out? Do you work mainly in the area that you are? Do you use zoom and reach throughout the world? How do people find you if they want to really get that coaching and that help, which personally I believe makes a big difference when you have an outside individual being able to help you and guide you. Thank you for asking that. So I walk on zoom, which means I can work globally. And I always recommend that people listen to the Quiet Warrior podcast first because it gives them a sense of why I talk about, what my expertise is, what resources are already available, So when they listen to some of the episodes, might find the answers to the questions themselves, and then if they need further help, I'm always happy to connect.

40:24 Wonderful, And what's your website? My website is Serenalo dot com dot au. Kay, and that's that's dot com dot au Yes, that's right. Oh that's great. Thank you so much. This has been so informative and what a difference you have to be making in people's lives, because being an introvert is not easy. I am one, you know, I have a combination of introvert extrovert. But I have found that. That was really difficult for a long time until I figured out how to how to work around that. And obviously here you are an intro but you've got your podcast. Here I am an introvert, but I've got my podcast. And it's interesting that when we find that value, all of a sudden that changes. And so thank you so much, and folks, I hope you've enjoyed this, and please, please, if you're experiencing these challenges as an introvert, reach out reader book and then reach out and see if you can't get some help, because I can tell you over the years it can be a real struggle. And to be able to finally come out of that and find that joy and happiness and values and realize you're fulfilling your values that makes such a difference. So anyway, this is doctor Doug saying thanks so much for listening, have a wonderful week, no mistay,